ART - Ranks/logos/ribbons/medals

[Deimos]

Hi Vaaish,

Welcome aboard. I like the look, especially the 'grey' sectoid behind the I that makes a part of his eye. Very cool stuff. Micah can you pop this into the art reference please

[Kenshiro]

I think the rank structure in X-Com made sense, but could have been better. On the other hand, the rank insiginias used in the original game were extremely hard to follow. I liked the redesign above, but the sequence is a little bit hard to follow and a bit busy for rank insignia, which are intended to quickly distinguish a person's rank. Based a bit on real-world military insignia (and keeping an international feel to these rather than going immediately to the US insignia model, which is actually pretty unique compared to most of the rest of the world) I came up with another alternative. Also, I agree there should be a couple more ranks just so the rank titles fit their proper roles and progressions. Again, note that these ranks are not US or any other army-specific, which is why I excluded specialist.

 

I included an example how I'd do up the texture for say, a set of personal armor. It'd probably appear over the chestplate and on the pauldron (shoulder).

 

Opinions?

[mikker]

hmmm....i can't see anything wrong with those.

 

Perhaps a little bit more extreme with the general one.

[Raven Squad]

I give my vote for those, just because they are more easily identified. They look cool also . General could have more stars than one. Like in Deimos concept.

[Guest Jim69]

Yeah, Dem's 1s are very good, but i think simplicity is key,so my vote is 4 Ken's 1s.

[GreatGold]

Hey -

 

I like the simpicity as well, so I say some varient of Kenshiro. BUt I have a suggestion for the general one, which I do not like.

 

Perhaps it could be 4 squares in a diomand formation, except larger than the colonels with closer spacing? That, or just a large diomand. And lastly, perhaps a large triangle? I just think the KABOOM comic box won't cut it :wink: .

 

Kenshiro, would it be possible for you to texture all the insignia? And if you grab the Iridium sheen from the Art guys, and then place the textured insignia's on top of that, I think you could be on to something...

 

Gold

[Breunor]

I also like them, the black on white makes a big difference. Perhaps an iron cross type of design could be used for the general badge.

[Guest drewid]

I like them

 

I think the iron cross would be a little too - errm - emotive?

 

I like the four diamonds for general idea tho. or five diamonds in an X formation ?

[Deimos]

Good stuff Kensiro. However for v1.0 we are going to stick with six ranks. It's already been playtested and we know it works. Don't junk the others though as they can be kept in for future revisions.

 

I'd agree with Drewid that the General looks better as five diamonds.

 

I think instead seeing as we'll be looking at the soldiers from the isometric view it'd be good to have the rank icons not only on the pauldron but on the chest plate too. Rather than having them painted on they could be moulded as a part of the armour so that in game it'd look embossed and the iridium sheen would have a field day around the area

 

For the cloth armour just have it as a patch as normal.

[Kenshiro]

I tried to fit as many suggestions as possible into this revision. Here's a revised chart, with 8 and 6 ranks in respective order, as well as an approximation of the iridium sheen look. The rank insignia tended to get lost when colored exactly like the background, and the iridium clashed with the original green color, so they're gray now. There is a slight shade difference between the officer and line ranks for further distinction between them. The new 6 rank version is very simple. I also stuck with the existing designs for the 8 ranks because everyone liked what was already there (except General) and the triangle/diamond combination seemed appropriate for the highest rank as is.

 

Note that I'm also making some suggestions as to renaming the 6 ranks as well. Navy folks might get bugged by this (Captains outrank Commanders, and since the navy is the only branch with Commanders, they will probably assume I switched them by accident) but this was intentional as Commander is the highest position (and rank, under this scheme) and captain comes right after lieutenant in most military rank systems. Anyway, nitpicks. Squaddie should get tossed regardless, it's a cute British military nickname for one of the regular guys in a unit and not a real rank unlike all the others in the original X-Com structure.

 

Apologies to the workflow purists - had to vary from the PNG format to get this thing to fit under the size limit.

 

Let me know what you think:

[Vaaish]

Stick the diamonds on the colonel insignea in a triangle and center it. The other insignea's fit nicely in their alloted space but the colonel looks crampped by comparison.

[Kenshiro]

A, B, or C? Or none of the above?

[Vaaish]

graphically I like A best, but B fits with the style you've created for the upper ranks best.

[Kenshiro]

I'm working on a logo design, posted under Shiny New (Possible) Logo off The Lobby. Perhaps that might best go here. Working on a revision, will post here from now on. Any possibility an admin can move the thread over?

[Kenshiro]

By the way, here's the latest revision. Not sure I'm happy with the globe design yet, will probably simplify further.

[Guest Jim69]

Unless ure gonna simplify it to a NATO/Rainbow type logo, I don't think there's much wrong with that logo. D'ja recon u could get hold of one of Vaaish's base unit models and try and insert it to a wall, just to c what it would look like?

[Vaaish]

you took out the grey and put in white which is a little stark.

 

I would try the UN style globe, i think that might work for a simplified version to put back there.

 

we want the eye to goto the "X-corps" first and then look at what is behind. the left half achieves that quite nicely but the right side is getting busy with the globe.

 

maybe just try a simple continents abstraction in a solid hue blue-grey and no lat/long lines.

[stoopher]

I think the logo needs to be very "could be any military really". It needs to be understated and look like any other so when you drop into urban areas the logo on the dropship is not memorable to civilians.

 

It needs to be samey and look possibly even washed out. Infact maybe we should approach it from the "unmarked helicopters" angle, to remain anonymous. Character 'X' in X-files. the unknown.

 

Anonymous. Unknown force secretly taking on an unknown enemy.

 

"No J, a person is clever, people are stupid. They are dumb jumpy panicky animals with a penchant for totally misinterpreting how things really are. There is always an intergalactic virus about to wipe them all out or a battle cruiser ready to paste the planet, or galactic bulldozers waiting for authority to plough the earth out of the way for a highway. They only way these people can comfortably get on with their lives is by not knowing about it." tommy lee jones MIB

- Sadly I did just quote a crap film but it was a good sentimetns never-the-less.

[stoopher]

Is it not that a team of people will work together and get to know who is boss? Not if they die loads I suppose.

 

What if rank is tatoed? Every promotion earns an addition to the tatoo.

 

Ranks should be generic to most armies, and not too many.

 

What about different classes of rank respecting the backgorund each person comes from? Or is it that people no-longer have any connection to their past when they join xcom?

[Vaaish]

Is it not that a team of people will work together and get to know who is boss?  Not if they die loads I suppose. 

 

What if rank is tatoed?  Every promotion earns an addition to the tatoo. 

 

Ranks should be generic to most armies, and not too many. 

 

What about different classes of rank respecting the backgorund each person comes from?  Or is it that people no-longer have any connection to their past when they join xcom?

and if the said person gets demoted? they get a chunk of scar tissue?

 

cloth patches or metal insignea will work well enough and on the armors it can be easily painted on.

[Deimos]

I like the odd angle of the globe however it is too busy in that area which does distract from the overall effect of the logo. Drop the colour of the green to a more military green and the blue should have more of a militaristic blue grey to it. Maybe an airforce blue. The background would be served better by a light grey rather than the white, as has said before it breaks the image up too much.

 

Finally the font is too 'windows'. Is it Arial? Try for something more military looking I've included a zip file with some freeware fonts that may have something better. Gotthard is the font we're using for the UI panels and I've included that for reference.

fonts.zip

[Deimos]

I kind like the tattoo idea, similar to what games workshop did in the early days with the space marines. However its not really practical for for the sealed armour.

 

Vaaish, alien alloy can't be painted hence my suggestion to emboss it on the armour. It could be done using a bump map so we wouldn't have to model different armour for each rank.

[Vaaish]

I kind like the tattoo idea, similar to what games workshop did in the early days with the space marines. However its not really practical for for the sealed armour.

 

Vaaish, alien alloy can't be painted hence my suggestion to emboss it on the armour. It could be done using a bump map so we wouldn't have to model different armour for each rank.

by painted I meant using the decals idea that we have on the avenger

[mikker]

Wishlisty, but when we ARE in the subject...

 

i just got a neat idea....what if the soldiers can earn medals for certain very hard things? It would really be something someone would try to get their commander to do.

 

like:

 

-if you kill 5 aliens in a battle

-if you kill 10 aliens in a battle

-if you kill 15 aliens in a battle

-if you kill 20 aliens in a battle

-if you kill all aliens in a battle, and there were at least 20 aliens

-if you aid a soldier with a medikit when he has 10 or less hp, and at least 2 fetal wounds

-if you destroy the command centre in an alien base before the battle ends

-if you have information if an alien is a leader,(mind prope,eg) and you kill him

-if you have information if an alien is a commander, and you kill him

-if you have atleast 60 points for a certain stat (health, strength, psi skill, eg)

-if you have atleast 100 points for a certain stat

-if you have atleast 150 points for a certain stat

 

those were what i could think of...

[Kenshiro]

I have two seminew concepts based on that last input. These designs are intended to resemble military unit patches, unlike the first one which was more of a game logo at first.

 

There are four versions, black and white, colorized, stealth subdued, and enhanced color.

 

Here is the first one:

[Vaaish]

I think the original one had more promise than those. these just don't have the same appeal as the previous concept.

 

I hate to be a bearer of evil but the balck white/ gray dark gray are ust confusing to the eye with the little banner slapped on the bottom. and the colorized ones just are not working.

 

try making the suggested changes to the original concept. You had something going there and it wasn't necessary to completely switch it.

Edited June 27, 2003 by Vaaish

[Kenshiro]

Here's the second one. I'll work on the original some more as well.

[Vaaish]

The gray one is better in that set, but it lacks acenter of intrest. maybe something to draw out the X in the center a bit more and make it pop slightly. not too much or thats all the eye will see but just enough to draw it out of the background.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that visually it is boring not enough variation to make some areas more interesting than others beyond the eye instantly going to the center of the X.

 

if you are going for duotone I think we can pull a few tints to make it more interesting.

 

 

The colored ones really aren't working for you I would stop working on the color versions for a couple of days and come back with a fresh perspective.

 

also you want to be sure that people who see it for the first time don't think cross out earth. Maybe even get rid of the center X all together in favor of another symbol. maybe a ship, crossed rifles, shield, sectoid, crossed sabres?

 

Sit down with a list and put down all the iimages that you can think of to describe X-corps function and purpose.

Edited June 27, 2003 by Vaaish

[Kenshiro]

I agree that those images really weren't working. I used the standard conventions for military patches, and this concept just doesn't seem to fit with the layout.

 

On the other hand, I finished revising the original design according to Deimos' suggestions. Here's that bit:

 

If anyone has some sketches in mind, I can always get them polished if you shoot me an email with them attached.

[Kenshiro]

I'd like to see a little service jacket on the stats screen with ribbons. I think that would really add to the sense that your guys are individuals progressing along and increase the player's attachment to the soldiers.

 

For additional ideas, you could award medals for things like:

 

Finishing Psi and/or other training

Getting wounded (Purple Heart type ribbon)

Longevity (You get a ribbon when you complete 3 missions, then every 3 missions you get a bronze star on your ribbon, then a silver stars replacing each 5 of those, etc)

World regional service medals (Southwest Asia, Central Asia, North America, South America, Central America, etc) - either for missions in those places or alternately, serving at bases in the region

Rescuing all civilians on a terror mission (Defender Medal)

 

Anyway, it would be a nifty little feature. Definately feature creep, but it would be nice.

 

So, is everyone happy with the rank insignia as they are now or is there anything else I can do to improve them?

[Vaaish]

The first one works the best in type style, the rest lack substance or are unreadable.

 

take a look at the "x" in the logo concepts section on the web site. What about replacing the X you have in there right now with that one? and maybe work with doing a dark gray light gray effect on the globe instead of blue/green? try knocking out the ocean and letting the background come through and make the continents the light gray color.

 

just toying around with ideas right now. but it is looking alot better with these.

Edited June 27, 2003 by Vaaish

[GreatGold]

Finishing Psi and/or other training

Getting wounded (Purple Heart type ribbon)

Longevity (You get a ribbon when you complete 3 missions, then every 3 missions you get a bronze star on your ribbon, then a silver stars replacing each 5 of those, etc)

World regional service medals (Southwest Asia, Central Asia, North America, South America, Central America, etc) - either for missions in those places or alternately, serving at bases in the region

Rescuing all civilians on a terror mission (Defender Medal)

 

Hey -

 

If you want to see this type of thing implemented, it would be through the X-Net Operatives Database. See the accompanying thread in the UFOpedia workshop forum, and post your ideas. They will do the most good in the correct place, and it looks like we may get this off the ground, if not v1.0 then shortly after...

 

I could easily see a "Service Jacket" tab, which would show the individual soldiers awards.

 

Gold

[Guest drewid]

there's another discussion going in about character development. please do post this there. I was thinking about medals ystrdy, but hadn't had any thoughts as to how they got awarded. These ideas rok

[Kenshiro]

Here's the logo with gray:

[hippyjon]

gets my vote.

 

maybe too brown?

[Vaaish]

Very nice. only suggestion I have is to make grey on the continents a bit darker

[Kenshiro]

How much darker - A,B, or C?

[[stewart]]

As I recall soldier names will reflect the region they are from, perhaps the logo could as well. We now see the NA logo what about SA, EUR, etc. This could deal with the PC issues. I'm sure actual soldiers would want "their own" logo, as it were.

 

What do y'all think. BTW I like the telemarine and ethnocentric fonts the best.

[Guest Jim69]

I recon the second darkness is the best, it draws attention to the countries, but isn't too dark.

 

BTW, I wouldn't even notice if the continents were different 4 each region, but I spose it's one of those little things u notice from time to time which gives the game a little depth.

[hippyjon]

id go for C, but B is better than A anyway. c gets rid of the muddyness that i didnt like the most and its still bright enough to be distinguished from the black of the rest of the logo even on my dark screen

 

oh yeh, and i really think xcorps should stick with one logo wherever they are

Edited July 6, 2003 by hippyjon

[miceless]

Methinks B is the best.

[[stewart]]

oh yeh, and i really think xcorps should stick with one logo wherever they are

The overall layout and look of the logo can be the same but the map can vary from base to base, likely that's how it really would be so each base would have it's own identification patch yet there is still the overall undenyable X-Corps look.

[hippyjon]

ok, i retract my objection

[mikker]

oh yeh, and i really think xcorps should stick with one logo wherever they are

The overall layout and look of the logo can be the same but the map can vary from base to base, likely that's how it really would be so each base would have it's own identification patch yet there is still the overall undenyable X-Corps look.

you mean, that if the base is in europe, the logo-earth will be focused over that area?

 

i like that.

[miceless]

you mean, that if the base is in europe, the logo-earth will be focused over that area?

I like that too, but presumably it wouldnt be centered over that area, cos the big X covers the centre.

[Cubik]

Good point miceless. Perhaps the upper-right part of the X could be a bit transparent? So that it is a little bit more clear as to which part of world the logo represents? And/or maybe a slightly brighter outline around the area of the world the logo is supposed to show?

[c4t]

my vote went for a

[Vaaish]

I think B is a keeper. not too complex, not too muddled. Good work.

[Guest drewid]

I'd vote B

[Kenshiro]

Alright, here's B in hi-res. If anyone needs it in a larger size or in outline format please email me. Unless someone tells me otherwise, I think we're done.

Edited July 8, 2003 by Kenshiro