Ufo2000 Weapon Concepts Discussion

[jammers]

All these New weapons are great, but is anyone doing any new sound effects for them? is there any implentation in the ufo2k source for adding new weapon sounds?

 

Cheers

Jammers

[Kratos]

I really don't have a clue about new sounds. But we need them really bad.

[Violazr]

Collecting sounds from other sources (ie games) would be easy, but implementing is the problem I guess. Edited August 16, 2005 by Violazr

[[Blehm 98]]

Will you put My/Sporbs Microwave guns into there? I don't know how to code the the effects right so for now i think it should fire an invisible projectile that lights a 10x10 area on fire - but it can't show the projectile

[Jamaru]

Don't think its a good idea. However we could make a separate set for it.

[[Blehm 98]]

hey, could you make a Neostead shotgun? If you don't know what it looks like go to dogpile.com and search Neostead Combat Shotgun

 

it is the coolest shotgun in the world, even the automatic shotguns

[Hobbes]

A thought had occured to me yesterday, why not make the "galactic" weapon set more than a mere weapon set? Why not make "galactic" units and maps? Not to mention that it would be nice to make a ufopaedia out of the weapon set eventually (which is another project of mine). As for the maps, it would be these types of terrains with addition of buildings of different variations for each planet:

- earth (human)

- mars

- moon

- radiated planet

- Icy planet

- Ocean planet (no land, only ocean)

- Desert planet

and so on...

 

Units would be humans and aliens. Each alien would have a particular type of preference for a planet. Each aliens would also have their own style of ship designs.

 

just an idea to throw out there...

 

And I add another idea to support that one: to create a storyline describing the situation on that universe, to help developers to have some idea of what content should be made for it. Hmmm....i am going to try to come up with something, with the background still set upon a human vs. aliens confrontation.

[Tursiops]

Im confused , i thought this weapon set was an out and out remake of the current original one present in ufo2000 6.067988493865837(<- the latest stable) so that players who dont possess Xcom can have an equivalent set that mimics said original pack so that , although the images will be different , you can still have the classic set of weapons with which to wage war

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Right on Sporb. I think that there would be great value in this. The default weapon set from the distributable ufo2000 is generally considered balanced and is by far the most used set. Why not use this set to eliminate copyright problems while keeping the balance and mechanics the same?

 

I am totally in favor of alternate weapon sets, alternate universes, and alternate storylines, and I encourage their development. The bottom line is that when all mods are finished, it would still be nice to distribute ufo2000 as a complete game that is not dependant on commercial copyrighted materials.

 

Sporb, since you are the creator (and supposed copyright holder) of all of your artwork, I would imagine that you should have some say in how it is utilized.

[nappes]

The sniper was originally designed to have an accuracy of 100+% with only the possibiity for aimed shot (no auto or snap as you dont fire a dedicated sniper rifle form the hip)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't really think Snap and Auto mean shooting from the hip, which is something no soldier in their right mind would do anyway, mainly because it's usually better if the bullets hit the enemy instead of your own feet. It always takes some effort to hit a target with a gun, even if it's no sniper rifle. That's why I think a sniper rifle should also have Snap, it's not like all those added sights and stuff are there to make shooting more difficult.

 

Snap is just shooting hastily with less time spent on aiming (not meaning the guy wouldn't aim!), and Auto is, obviously, shooting in burst mode, which makes aiming difficult because of the effects of recoil on subsequent shots after the first one. Actually, if Auto were to be modelled realistically, the first shot should be about as accurate as Snap, and subsequent shots would become accumulatively less accurate with each shot. I'm not necessarily suggesting to implement this in UFO2000 though, because I think it's important to be faithful to the original games, but it would be something to consider for a future mod perhaps.

[Violazr]

The point is that snipers are not supposed to be good at killing sombebody who rusges them with three 85% snap shots a turn.

That might be ok for really expensive Über-Weapons like the current HP, but not for specialized ones.

 

The best solution would be to make single-bolt rifles which can be shot both ways, but have to be reloaded after every shot. However, that would require every bullet to take up one inventory space because ammo cannot be "divided" upon loading.

 

Maybe clips of four or five shots would be a start.

Edited August 23, 2005 by Violazr

[[Blehm 98]]

well, don't forget, these aren't huge single shot .50 caliber sniper rifles, these are only long range normal rifles, a real sniper rifle only has around 4 shots in a magazine. A real sniper rifle would take a lot longer than a single turn to get all ready, and using it at the ranges used in Xcom would be a wast

 

So these aren't real sniper rifles

[Neithan]

pls can u tell me where exactly should i unpack the ufo2000weaponset.zip in beta to make it work

[[Blehm 98]]

under extensions/weapons

[nachtwolf]

Woops

 

Ok, I just noticed Sporbs works REALLY fast (or a lot). Before I catched up with this topic I still thought he was mostly working on the galactic weapon set.

 

Was probably my mistake not posting this before but I am actually working on replacement images for the normal x-com weaponset, so that we don't use copyrighted files anymore.

 

Problem is Sporb and I were doing the same thing.

 

From right to left top to bottom:

 

Knife, Teaser gun, Shotgun and ammo, Submachine gun and clip, Pistol and clip,

 

Explosive side-charge (new idea), High explosives (C4), grenade, smoke, flashbang, Minigun (autocanon) and belted ammo,

 

Heavy Grenade launcher (Heavy canon) and grenade clips, Hand grenade launcher and grenade shells,

 

Proximity mine (porcupine mine style), Alien grenade, Alien smoke grenade, Rifle and clip, Alien launcher and ammo clips,

 

Rocket launcher and rocket types,

 

Alien HTH claws, Sniper Rifle and clip, Laser Pistol, Laser rifle, Laser Heavy rifle, Plasma pistol and clip,

 

Plasma rifle and clip, Heavy plasma and clip.

Edited August 28, 2005 by nachtwolf

[Sporb]

ya know , having looked at them , im not sure we have such a problem , the guns are all completely different , we could just rename the set we (Abyssion and myself) to somthing like Alternative weapons though im not entirely sure what we should do.

 

Damn i hate it when stuff like this happens

Edited August 28, 2005 by Sporb

[nachtwolf]

ya know , having looked at them , im not sure we have such a problem , the guns are all completely different , we could just rename the set we (Abyssion and myself) to somthing like Alternative weapons though im not entirely sure what we should do.

 

Damn i hate it when stuff like this happens

 

It's no big deal honestly, Stuff happens.

 

We could always merge our sets and take the best off each.

 

The problem lies more into the looks of the weapons than in the situation.

 

Mines are kinda smoother and look different from your pixelart style.

Edited August 28, 2005 by nachtwolf

[Sporb]

well how else is pixel art going to look? i hate it when my guns turn out too cartoony , by making them look weird in some instnces it makes them seem more realistic.

[nachtwolf]

well how else is pixel art going to look? i hate it when my guns turn out too cartoony , by making them look weird in some instnces it makes them seem more realistic.

 

I was talking about the shading, not the overall weapon looks. Your weapons look great BTW. I especially love the plasma weapons you made, they look both fresh and classy.

[Sporb]

here are some sounds i edited for the weapons.

 

Melee attack sound.(melee)

 

Grenade launcher.(G launcher)

 

Weird laser noise.(las shot)

 

some sort of gun.(lite shot)

 

New Rocket launch.(Rocket)

 

 

 

and also some interesting sounds i found in a game called Perfect Dark

(Laser and plasma) Sound familiar? The weapons they belong to are called Farsight and Calisto NTG but they are basically the same ones off Xcom UFO. Makes me wonder how copyrights on soundeffects stand.

[Violazr]

That weapon set looks really cool! Well, except for the white plasma weapons.

 

Merging the two into one coulde be a good idea. OTOH, you could also make them alternative graphics for the same set, or slightly different modifications of it.

 

And given time, somebody will come up with some new weapons set thet needs good graphics, and then it's good to have some.

[Serge]

By the way, it is possible to use alternate images for weapons.

 

AddXcomItem {

    cost = 0,

    name = "PISTOL",

    pInv = pck_image("$(xcom)/units/bigobs.pck", 3) or png_image(...),

    pMap = pck_image("$(xcom)/units/floorob.pck", 3) or png_image(...),

    health = 999,

    importance = 5,

    width = 1,

    height = 2,

    ammo = {"PISTOL CLIP"},

    pHeld = pck_image_set("$(xcom)/units/handob.pck", 96, 8),

    accuracy = {0, 60, 78},

    time = {0, 18, 30},

    weight = 5,

    isGun = 1,

    minimapMark = 1,

    sound = "cv-pistol-shot",

}

 

In this example the game will try to use x-com graphics first, and if it can't be loaded (no data files from x-com available), it tries to use an image from png file instead (insert some file name instead of dots). Just noticed that this trick does not work for pck_image_set yet, but I'll fix it shortly

[nachtwolf]

That weapon set looks really cool! Well, except for the white plasma weapons.

 

Merging the two into one coulde be a good idea. OTOH, you could also make them alternative graphics for the same set, or slightly different modifications of it.

 

And given time, somebody will come up with some new weapons set thet needs good graphics, and then it's good to have some.

 

I agree the white plasma weapons look awkward.

But you've got to remember that not all these guns are final.

[Kratos]

IF we had no graphics...then that would be a problem. But there is nothing wrong with making extra graphics.

I think alternative set is too plain.

He didn't mean call it "alternitive set", but to call it something else. It was a mere example.

Edited August 29, 2005 by Kratos

[Sporb]

Since we are no longer bound to the weapons currently in circulation , we can add as many as we need , New ones to come will be:

 

Magnum: Hand cannon 'o' doom , complete with velocity optimised barrel and bored chambers for those extra fun .50 cal bullets

 

PFM and launcher: Proximity Fragmentaion Mine. proxy mine on steroids. Whats that you say? throw like a girl? well then , why not take our new PFM launcher into battle. hurl mines with malice as you relax with a cup 'o' tea. (feature yet to come)

 

Fusion cutter: use this baby to burn holes in walls whilst conserving your ammo for the bad dudes.

[Violazr]

One thing about the "fusion cutter":

 

Because walls don't have health that can be worn down, but work rather like Armor in UFO (damage value lower than healh = nothing, higher = destroyed), that cutter would need a high damage to cut through stronger walls (>80 for weak ufo parts).

 

But that would also cut through people fairly well, so I'm afraid you can't make it too cheap in TU.

[Sporb]

Dern it , i need a flag that allows it to remove a wall no questions asked for about 10 tus. Its meant to be a tool for clearing walls in the same way a melee attack kills a soldier. Look at it , slelect cut and burn through.

 

BTW is it possible to fire a primed proxy mine from a lucnher and still have it land and act as a thrown mine? IE fire it and it lands and becomes a proxy again? if it cant , theres no use in haveing a PFM launcher

[Neithan]

Hi

 

How about adding a rifle with a grenade launcher attachment?

 

If this is possible, a new sugestion occurs to me - the word taken to its maximum:

 

in the weapons menu, the granade launcher could be attached to the rifle if the player wants. Of course, it would cost more.

 

I think it would be very nice if this could be done, because the human weapons are weaker, and this would help balancing the alien/human weapons

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

well i think its a good idea:

 

1. Rifle with granade luncher exists (common human weapon)

2. Only human granade can be equiped so it still would be weaker than any Alien weapon (unfounded fear Abyssion )

3. It would be FUN

 

but it also has some negative feedback:

 

u cant make a weapon that has loaded two types of ammo at the same time for now

Edited August 30, 2005 by Neithan

[Violazr]

would the enemy soldiers see the flashlight? Well, in my opinion, no

Why not?? It's not like they wouldn't notice being pointed at in the dark....

 

However, there are only circular light sources right now. You could simply increase a soldier's sight distance, but that would cause the PROBLEM of him not being seen in return.

 

OTOH, some expensive night vision goggles could do that - even though that brings back scouts, who help their teammates take aimed shots at something they can't see.

[Blood Angel]

I loved the electroflare. It was great. I was thinking of another kind of flare. Like a flammable one. You throw it and it creates a very intense flame for the surrounding squares. Anything that walks through it gets burninated. Like an everlasting, small radius incendiary grenade.

[Exo2000]

Hi

 

To Abyssion:  Why not?? I've read some reply's and there are incredible ideas of weapons (phasers,masers,thasers, & so on), why not adding a real weapon?

I understand, this requires lot of work, and having the same weapon shooting two types of rounds could be a problem, but with time all problem & bugs will be overwhelmed 

 

I´ve been trying the beta version, and the option to choose the time of the day the battle will occur is great.

And i have another idea - in night missions the soldiers could have a flashlight, that would make easier soldiers to see in some tiles ahead the location he is facing(of course the flashlight would be a item & it would cost).

And as the attachable grenade launcher, the flashlight could be attachable too, to some weapons (mainly human weapons).

This idea could bring another question - would the enemy soldiers see the flashlight? Well, in my opinion, no. But i'm open to sugestions 

 

An attachment system has been discussed and ignored for a while now, but if you check out the bigass set of Human Weapons, I'm sure the M4 with underslung 'nade launcher will tickle your fancy. Only problem is the grenade clip doesn't vanish when it has no shots left in it, and has the ground image of the rifle itself. I think that's been fixed though.

 

(Note; and it's actually fairly balanced too. Unless your soldier has a lot of TUs, the most you can hope for is one reload and shot per round, and you're gonna be going through a lot of nades at that rate. My soldiers usually carry 2-3 clips and 2 nades. )

 

Also, they're neither accurate nor particularly powerful. About the same power as the standard nade, but easier to "aim", as it were.

Edited September 1, 2005 by Exo2000

[ShellTox]

Hi

 

Exo2000 thanks for the advice but i don't know how to put the new weapons set working on the beta.

I've tried to copy the files to the extensions folder, but when i run the game, it doesn't work.

 

Could you explain it ?

[Neithan]

Hi

 

Exo2000 thanks for the advice but i don't know how to put the new weapons set working on the beta.

I've tried to copy the files to the extensions folder, but when i run the game, it doesn't work. 

 

Could you explain it ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

make sure your dir looks like this: UFO2000 Beta\extensions\weapons

if everything is on right place than u should try to cut away the original xcom weapon set, cos the ufospecial weapons have some name problems with it i think

[Kratos]

Hi

 

Exo2000 thanks for the advice but i don't know how to put the new weapons set working on the beta.

I've tried to copy the files to the extensions folder, but when i run the game, it doesn't work. 

 

Could you explain it ?

if you have a previous version of it, then please delete the old zip and files of the weapon set. Depending on the set such as TFTD set, you may not be able to play it unless you get TFTD demo or full version (haven't tried it). So what set are you trying to install?

Edited September 3, 2005 by Kratos

[Neithan]

Hi

 

Exo2000 thanks for the advice but i don't know how to put the new weapons set working on the beta.

I've tried to copy the files to the extensions folder, but when i run the game, it doesn't work. 

 

Could you explain it ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if you have a previous version of it, then please delete the old zip and files of the weapon set. Depending on the set such as TFTD set, you may not be able to play it unless you get TFTD demo or something. So what set are you trying to install?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

and remember your opponent has to have it either

[ShellTox]

i was trying to use the update above

 

and its not from the ufo or tftd games

i have them both

 

 

 

weeee

its working

thanks....ehehe

you were right Neithan, the problem was in the original ufo weapons

 

but now its not possible to have the original ufo weapons

Would be possible to join all the weapons in a universal weapon set?

 

/*********/

 

I tryed the weapons -» 5*

But the grenade launcher fires horizontaly. Can you guys, make it fire in arc, like a normal grenade?

If so the players would have to change the stats, for a soldier who uses the grenade launcher, and then it wouldn't depend on fire accuracy, but throwing accuracy.

Edited September 1, 2005 by ShellTox

[Exo2000]

Here it is.

# 2005-09-01 15:45:54 : Loading extension './extensions/weapons-munkey'.
Duplicate item with name 'HEAVY PHASER' - ignored
Duplicate item with name 'PULSE PHASER' - ignored
Duplicate item with name 'ALIEN MISSILE' - ignored
Duplicate item with name 'ALIEN MISSILE POD' - ignored
Duplicate item with name 'OMEGA LAUNCHER' - ignored
Duplicate item with name 'ALIEN SMOKE POD' - ignored
Duplicate item with name 'MEZON PISTOL' - ignored
Duplicate item with name 'MEZON RIFLE' - ignored
Equipment set 'New and Old Weapons' refers to invalid item 'PISTOL CLIP' - ignored
Equipment set 'New Weapons' refers to invalid item 'ROCKET LAUNCHER' - ignored
Equipment set 'Human Weapons' refers to invalid item 'PISTOL CLIP' - ignored
Equipment set 'Alien Weapons' refers to invalid item 'ALIEN GRENADE' - ignored

 

I think the problem is the lua contains several sets, not just one.

[Hobbes]

Yup.

 

I've redone the .lua file and cleaned up the folder. Munkeylord's weapons are now know as the Real/Modern Weapon Set (pending further additions to it since there are no grenades and nearly no explosive ammo weapons).

 

The set has some problems with the transparency in some weapons that I don't know how to fix. Can anyone have a look at them? Thanks.

 

PS - Kratos, please delete the munkeyweapons3.zip file to prevent further confusion.

weapons_modernreal.zip

[Sporb]

Added a topic to explain ideas behind the weaponset 'Xcom Advanced'

 

its right Here

Edited September 12, 2005 by Sporb

[Violazr]

If a wall's strength is 255, it's indestructible no matter what the damage.

And no destructible piece of wall should be above 120 (be sure to turn off deviation).

 

But even with "only" 120 damage, units will be stunned very easily. And in my opinion, stun weapons destroying walls is a bug yet to be removed. Maybe one could introduce a special "siege" damage class instead?

Edited September 16, 2005 by Violazr

[Neithan]

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh08-e.htm

 

that would be the coolest thing ever if that was added in, i love that gun

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think this gun was used as an alternate shotgun in Ufo Aftermatch, and i love it too. Btw have u played Aftermatch?

[Sporb]

looks like the quake 2 shotgun , only less cool. Those suggestions about weight and ballance are good ideas but the ballancing can be fine tuned later on , so long as they are working and are vaguly ballanced there ok for now.

 

Ive been using the fusion cutter a bit (playing on my own) and its really usefull on Xbase and other assorted hardwalled areas. i managed to get in behind myself and kill most of my squad while i was looking the other way thus loosing and winnign at the same time. MIND bending

 

@violzar: yes i would like a seige weapon as it would mean that those friggin indestructable boat walls can be breeched so your men can escape (boat varient two, leftmost deploment area)

[[Blehm 98]]

That's where i got the idea from, that image was pre-production though, the ones actually used are slightly different (the neostead, that is)

[ShellTox]

Hi

 

I've been thinking of some sort of crossbow, with various types of ammo.

If anyone ever played Deus Ex, the crossbow of this game has normal piercing darts, poisonous darts, and flare darts.

 

This crossbow, would have the same darts, and some more:

- piercing darts, this type would be very deadly, to an unarmored soldier

- poisonous darts, this type would make the target go stunned

- flare darts,... the name say's all

- explosive darts, i was thinking in a small, but powerfull explosion, for breaching doors and small holes in walls

- time delayed explosive dart, like a grenade but with a greater horizontal range

- time delayed smoke dart, the same above, but with smoke

(the last two types would cost a little greater than the others)

 

The normal dart clips would carry 5 units, and its size in inventory would be two squares in vertical

The time delayed darts clips would carry 3 units, and the size is the same.

 

The crossbow itself would have 3 sq vertical & 2 sq horizontal.

Another thing that would make very sense, is a limited fire range.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Another type of weapon that i've remebered is a flare pistol, for the night missions. The ammo would be some sort of cluster, like the grenade launcher, an 1 shot cluster. After fired, the area where the flare landed would become brighter, but for a limited time (3 turns for example).

The pistol could be red (like the real ones), and very light, the same goes to the ammo.

 

 

 

I don't if this could be done, it's just an idea, but post your opinion

cya

[Blood Angel]

How about a demolition charge that has a very small blast radius, but can blow through any material.

[ShellTox]

Thats a good idea, bood angel....and it would be even better if some maps would have some armored doors that couldn't be opened manually, only with those explosion packs, or a very powerfull explosion. Some kind of assault map.

This could be very interesting

[ShellTox]

In the last 2 days i've been trying to do the weapons i've spoken of.

I was able to put a funcional crossbow in the inventory, and two types of ammo (explosive & piercing).

It's not a masterpiece draw, and it's a little "un centered" (i dont know if this is the right word ) in the item menu, (which is the size, the image should have?), but it's working

 

But i was forced to stop, because i don't know how to make the flare effect.

Does anyone know who to do this?? I don't know if the incendiary option, with no explosion radius and no damage will do the trick (i remembered this just now ).

 

Another problem i faced, was about time delayed darts. It's possible to make a clip with some sort of grenade ammo??

My idea is, when you click the crossbow to fire the dart, the arm grenade screen would open up, and after selecting the time delay, the type of shot screen would appear. Then (if there are TU's available), the dart would be shot, but it wouldn't give any damage to the place where it hits, staying only on the ground, waiting for the time to pass until it blows!!

 

Another thing....

In the inventory screen, when arming the soldiers, the matrix used is becoming a little bit crowded, with so many items.

A good idea is to put another matrix, like the original game - the lack of space would be solved

 

The flare pistol is still on the drawing phase...

For the masters of drawing -» which is the program that you use?? for make the drawings?? i know that paint shop pro is the ultimate drawing tool, but is was serching for a less complicated tool.

 

Finnaly, i have noted that, there are some sort of sequencial position images for the weapons (when beeing used on the game). Can anyone explain a little better who to do such images?

 

 

Cause i don't have much time, this weapons will stay relaxing until the next weakend

 

Until then, make your sugestions

 

(sorry about my english )

Edited October 17, 2005 by ShellTox

[Blood Angel]

Sequential? Do you mean the hand objects?

 

That's Sporb's department. He's our resident NINJA.

 

Anyway, a weapon concept? How about a cutting laser, which ignites whatever it hits?

[ShellTox]

Yes the images that are in the pHeld folder.

I noticed that there are some white lines separating each image.

How does this work?

[ShellTox]

I've made the two weapons (crossbow & flare pistol), and they are ready for test.

Unfortunatly, i was only able to do 2 types of ammo to the Scorpion crossbow (i hope you like the name ), and the flare pistol ammo has an incendiary effect, but with minimal damage (that was the way i've found to simulate a flare), but it destroy's some types of walls and roofs which is a little strange for a flare ...

 

 

I know that Plasma is the one who takes care of the weapon set releases, so i don't know who to put this two weapons online. Please tell me how can i do this.

I was thinking in putting myself the Xcom advanced weapon set with the two weapons, but i don't want to do this before one of the master developers see's this post.

[ShellTox]

Ok then i'll put the folder "weapons", which contain all the previous weapons and the files for the two new weapons.

I haven't made the pHeld and pMap images, for the weapons.

 

So Plasma or Sporb could add the files in a new release of this weapon set. If anyone can make a better image for the weapons (which is very probable ), do it, i don't care, cause the final objective is to make better the game we all love

The images were made in mspaint and the transparency effect was made in ms photo editor. I'm trying to find a better program, and i was thinking in Macromedia Fireworks.

 

In the next few weeks i'll try to make some new dart types for the Scorpion, but the ones i was thinking are very dificult to make, cause the game itself doesn´t allow some actions. (example -» proximity dart, or the true flare effect without using the incendiary properties)

 

So, before that time comes, give your opinion about the weapons

weapons.rar

Edited October 22, 2005 by ShellTox