Training

[Eccky]

i really like the way Fallout Tactics deals with characters, and i think that FT and this game have some things incommon. you grew attached to chars you had for a while, you were able to customize chars abilities as they grew with you, but i didn't like the way it just started you off with the same chars (even though your main was customizable). kinda forcing you to keep at least one of the chars you start with (Farsight) due to expierence and skill gain from that first mission.

 

how about this. there is a pool of chars to start, and the first mission you go on uses all of the chars in the pool. the way they perform on the first mission determines which chars are allowed into X-com. sorta like 'The Right Stuff'. and the first mission could be like a tutorial. you don't actually fight aliens, they are simulated aliens, like the FBI or police training missions we see in movies and on TV. Think 'Men In Black' when will smith tries out for MiB. if there are different 'classes' (i.e. vehicle driver, sniper, demolitions, etc) then they can be tested against each other in easily made missions tailored to their 'class'.

[mikker]

sounds interesting, but this is quite post v 1.0.

[Whitewashed]

This isn't that related but I think there should be training facilities for the soldiers as in Apocalypse so they can be trained without going to battle with them and you have to choose if you want them in psionic or normal training.

[red knight]

As this post is V1.0+ some admin move it to the lab...

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Hmm, personally, I would like to see the game more like the original (Ex: You shoot a rifle more to gain firing accuracy, throw more to get throwing accuracy, etc.)

[Breunor]

IIRC This point is listed in the versions/features list, stated as specialized training. There is a thread that goes into detail about having weapon categories like pistol, rifle, heavy, and thrown, and your accuracy goes up in the category your weapon is in. This allows for specialists, etc. Do a search for weapon specialization, that should find it.

[ChonkE]

Hmmm. Specialist functions would make sense though as most of the X-corp will prolly have come from elite Special forces units such as SFOD-1 Delta, Special Air/Boat Services, Royal Marine Commandos, the various ST Teams, GSG, Spetznaz, Mossad/The Unit, ect where specialist functions are the guide-line. It would also make unit casualties among a squad a little more hectic if you lose the heavy weapons specialist, and while someone else can take his job, he wont do it nearly as well as the specialist in question (who is now a pile of vented plasma goo). It is also a heavier burden on those code/engine guys <==code warriors

 

Training outside of battle would be more realistic, but only to a point, as my pappy always said, "There is no substitute to being blooded on the field, and no experience makes you sharper."

Perhaps greater physical training limits can be set with base training, and you can train your combat skills to only a certain point which can be degraded as you sit your troopers in base for longer periods of time without combat. In combat you can have greater combat skill gains but as battle fatigue sets in, your physical skills degrade to a point. It would certainly make a more interesting balance as to who you send out when and for how many straight missions you send them out for. *shrugs* I dont know, just an idea

[NickJones]

THis topic really got to me. Ive played FOT(fallout tactics) and I hate that game (the single player missions suck, the multiplayer is fun). I would HATE to see a quality game like X-com fall into that strategic/rpg/crap genera. You are right, in FOT you have to keep the guys you start with because every mission is soo important to skill gain.

 

X-COM agents are THE BEST OF THE BEST OF THE BEST. they should be able to do ANYTHING, perhaps maybe one area is better then another, but any agent should be able to perform any task. I hate FOT because you could be a killer sniper, but not know how to handel a pistol.

 

In X-Com, you could make any guy what you want him to be. An explosives specialist, well give em more grenades. A medic, give em a med-kit.

 

I would also HATE to have to do a stupid tutorial every tiem i want to start a new game. Im sorry but I like the way you start with the same guys every time. Who cant remember the names of the first 8? They are legendary, and i would ike to keep it as so. Its a part of X-Com. I would lOVE to see the original 8 be the first units you are given in Xenocide.

 

Also, training is stupid. I dont need to repeat what i said before. These agents are the best (well i guess i did). Maybe they are rookies when it comes to killing aliens, but they are not rookies when it comes to shooting a gun.They shouldnt gain skills by "training" at the base. When you go on 1-2 vigrous mission a day, when do you have time to train? I am dumbfounded as to when these guys even sleep.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

I think they should improve their skills by training at a base. Like in apoc. That way, they can actually gain skills while they are at the base twiddleing their thumbs.

[[dipstick]]

Instead of every day though, it should be every hr, or half hour it is calculated or something.

[CptJackSparrow]

Another option:

 

Instead of gaining 2 points of accuracy

per X shots, a soldier could gain 1 point

immediately and 1 point training potential.

So base training would be limited by

combat experience, but still be useful.

 

 

Also, training is stupid. [...] Maybe they are rookies

when it comes to killing aliens, but they are not rookies

when it comes to shooting a gun.

 

Even if they can hit an apple over 500 meters,

they still need training, because as you say, they

are rookies when it comes to killing aliens. They

can be instructed by the scientists, so they learn

where to shoot the aliens most effectively.

 

Tommy: "But I shot it in the heart!"

Timmy: "Well... err... which heart??"

 

And maybe alien weapons don't use the

same targeting optics as our weapons.

 

Timmy: "Who shot our phucking aircraft?"

Tommy: "There was an..."

Timmy: "Yeah...?"

Tommy: "Hey, nobody told me, it was heat-seeking!"

 

and so on...

[Puasonen]

Training is a good idea, even if you are a master with every weapon, you get worse if you never train. And you are never so good that you can't be better if you know what I mean. There's always something you have to train..

[Tuoppi]

I´d like to see some options in training, like do you want your soldiers train in physical skills, psionics, weapons, and in which order. Percentage sliders might work here... also a chance to micromanage. (Some actually like that)

 

Also i like idea weapon class specialisation in some proportion. You can be a heck of a sniper, but weak in burst firing and suck with heavy weapons, not to mention fact that most of your (later) arsenal has never been seen on earth and you cannot be expected to operate all of them immediately to the full potential. Some similar-weapon bonuses are a must though.

 

Also training could be somewhat dependant of money spent besides of facilities. Your soldiers can train with 0 budget, but it would be a lot more efficient with reasonable funding (Ammo and decent instructors cost a lot of money, and speak of training equipment) Do not overshoot though. It doesn´t matter much if you have 10000$ a day or 100000$ a day.

 

"Damn! Private Jackson, you just dropped a 500 000$ plasma gun down the cliff!"

 

 

BTW I really like the idea of gaining training potental through action.

 

PS. Bit off topic, but please make decent burst firing. There is nothing like a LMG in good position...

[Mudbudda]

Just so youre aware if you werent before,

I too thought id have to stick to my original 6

Fallout Tactics guys but when I got to other

bunkers they had already trained up guys there,

for example I traded out my hand to hand specialist,

some chick, for a deathclaw. MUCH more efficient.

 

Just because a guy is good with a rifle doesnt mean he can grab a plasma cannon and be equally efficient with it. He might have a good hand eye co ordination for accuracy but it would take some time before he bacame used to the huge recoil of the weapon. Too balance weapon use and gameplay maybe Heavy weapons guys should be sufficiently trained in Psy Ops before using the weapon in combat or if they panic or gat mind controlled they are deadly to their own team. Surely enemy AI would target mind control etc at the big guns of the squad.

 

Lets say I chose to specialise a guy into pistols, would he have any advantages over say a rifle specialist? Firstly youd expect far more accurate snap shots (especially close range) as this weapon is intended to be swung about and aimed rapidly at close range. If I can steal an idea from the rainbow six games pistols are much more accurate than other weapon when moving about. (so if cought in the open when advancing you have a better chance of getting of a snap shot before the enemy can fire). As well this guy would be quieter, lighter payload hence could scout and sneak up behind ETs undetected.

 

I can imagine a sweetly balanced multiplay version of XCom where even the heavy weaps guys sweat about ninja like opponents sneaking up at their weakly armoured flanks and rears, and not just big gun = winner.

 

Throw in some binoculars to extend viewing range for those equiped.

XCOM was beautifully deep but the only element new to this sort of game since then is stealth. Pay back on those curly shell things that would turn up out of no where and fry your guys.

 

cheers, my .02c

[Puasonen]

Also i like idea weapon class specialisation in some proportion. You can be a heck of a sniper, but weak in burst firing and suck with heavy weapons, not to mention fact that most of your (later) arsenal has never been seen on earth and you cannot be expected to operate all of them immediately to the full potential. Some similar-weapon bonuses are a must though.

Hmm.. These soldiers are the best of the best. They aren't WEAK with any weapon. We have discussed about small bonuses with weapons you are specialized to. Nothing big though.

 

Too balance weapon use and gameplay maybe Heavy weapons guys should be sufficiently trained in Psy Ops before using the weapon in combat or if they panic or gat mind controlled they are deadly to their own team. Surely enemy AI would target mind control etc at the big guns of the squad.

I think it should be up to players decision. If the player is stupid and puts heavy weapons to psionically weak people, it's that players problem I agree that guys/chicks with heavy weapons should be AIs favourite psi victims.

 

Off Topic, TUOPPI! Are you from Finland or is your name just accidentaly meaning something in finnish?

[Tuoppi]

Ok, ok. Maybe not weak, but some just handle sniping better than others no matter how much training. Naturals are almost only way to discriminate as all soldiers are top-trained. You are correct in balancing this... It might be really heck so it is definitely ver XX.X

 

Ok... Off topic then. Suomestapa joo...

[mikker]

Another option:

 

Instead of gaining 2 points of accuracy

per X shots, a soldier could gain 1 point

immediately and 1 point training potential.

So base training would be limited by

combat experience, but still be useful.

i like this one. so you have to train (lets say, 1 point each week if training constantly) to get the additional "free to use" points. You won't be able to train if you havn't found out how to shoot them.

 

Example:

 

Tommy is out in his first terror mission. He jumps into a builing, hurries up the stairs, shoots them, and snipes from the window. He shoots rockets down on the streets (all civs dead by now), and even though he coveres all the ground with smoke, there are still an alien left. Thats a floater sitting on top of the building.

 

What i'm saying is, thay you learn from your mistakes. You might have shot the alien in the head, but you didn't get it DEAD center on its nerve center in the middle of the sectoids brain killing him on the spot. This also tells why you can't get better them 100 (or 255), becase now you simply have struct perfection.