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#51 GreatGold

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 12:58 PM

Likewise, I always assumed there was some-sort of tactical display in the back that briefred the operatives. If you could add one in great detail, that would be perfect. If it had soe sort of halographic display of the earth coming out the floor/wall that would be even better...

For writing stuff about the Avenger, we'll have the general history of it, the specs of it, the weapons it can hold, and then the thoretical propulsion and vavigation systems. Having a detailed display in the back, perhaps on the back wall of the cockpit, would give us some more to put in.

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#52 red knight

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 03:06 PM

Can the transparency be done using a shader or alpha when a unit is inside or does it need to allow for the physical geometry to be sliced?

Dont worry now for that, our current milestone do not cover the battlescape...

Xnet shouldn't change map size if you are designing for the GF2 I think either 256 or 512 is the largest it can support. (personally I think we should drop the GF2 and just go with a current low end like the GF3) Either way on the lowest end of the spectrum we have to make sure we don't flood out the cards texture memory.

We will keep GF2 until we cannot do something we want with it... There is a lot of feedback from people that use GF2 hardware (I used it until 2 weeks ago), now I can do better things.

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#53 Cubik

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 03:53 PM

A single 512x512 texture for the Ufopedia wouldn't be a real problem...... or?

Different level of texture detail should help solving the memory overflow issue. The Battlescape would be the main area of concern.

#54 Vaaish

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 04:08 PM

For UFO pedia I would hope to be able to use about 6 512 maps per model to get good detail in the textures.

I'll see about putting in the cockpit. and I think I can tag a holo display from the ceiling. Unfortunately I'm just about totally out of room on my current 512 maps.

#55 Breunor

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 10:26 PM

It would make sense that you could use several maps in the X-Net display for a single model, as there will be several used in the battlescape.

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Posted 04 June 2003 - 10:56 PM

Is there ne way of seeing what this irridium sheen effect would look like on the craft? I would just like to see if it would work, if u can.

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Posted 05 June 2003 - 12:09 AM

I think you could use a lot less texture space on this one.
Lots of the panels are square, so you could have four different square panels on the texture that get re-used on the craft in different positions. The uv's could be rotated and flipped for extra variety. you could do the same with a few wide triangles, a few narrow triangles and a few different rectangles. These could be bigger than you are using now and still give you loads more texture space.

This should leave plenty of space in the texture to put specific panels for maintenance hatches, and decals (NO STEP/ RESCUE / Numbers / HOT EXHAUST etc).
Then a few small finishing touches like ariels, sensor poles, landing lights and Bob's your uncle.

#58 Vaaish

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Posted 25 October 2003 - 08:26 AM

Ok back to the avenger. this is by no means a finished texture just an idea for how this might look. Unfortunately by nature of the alien alloys a fairly smooth texture is rather boring.

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#59 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 25 October 2003 - 08:38 AM

Well, you could always make it look like it is made of alien alloy plates. :)
That looks good, but where would the weapons go?
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#60 Vaaish

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Posted 25 October 2003 - 11:32 AM

Well, you could always make it look like it is made of alien alloy plates. :)
That looks good, but where would the weapons go?

same place theyare hidden on the Lightning. here is a more recent version of the base texture. Once I get the shell mapped then I'll worry about adding details to it.

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#61 Deimos

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Posted 25 October 2003 - 03:21 PM

How hard would it be to add in a specularity and environment map that just affects the cockpit? I'd love to see a really high reflective surface on the cockpit. Would it mean modelling a seperate cockpit and mapping them on that way or could it be done with the exsisting model?

I guess it'd have to be a seperate map to the rest of the shell but you know the model best :)

#62 Vaaish

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Posted 25 October 2003 - 03:54 PM

I wouldn't be too hard. Right now I'm not overly concerned with the specular, bump etc. I'm just trying to get the shell textures and then add hull details.

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Edited by Vaaish, 25 October 2003 - 05:10 PM.


#63 Vaaish

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Posted 25 October 2003 - 05:13 PM

ok the outside is mapped. all thats left on the shell are the gear wells but that will come later. Any suggestions for what kind of details you think would work on the thess, carbon scoring, striping, stuff like that, or do we just want this to be perfectly cleak with a few warning marks on it?

I've tried to keep the broken glass look while smoothing it out some to give the impression we have gotten better at making these alloys.

anyway here is a pic of the bottom. So far I've only used one 512 texture so I have plenty of space for the inside. :)

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Edited by Vaaish, 25 October 2003 - 05:14 PM.


#64 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 25 October 2003 - 05:24 PM

Maby you should add X-Corps in Red letters somewhere. :)
I would also like to see stripes, possibly user defined stripes down the sides. But that is just me.
You may also want to add some assorted doodads to the hull (imo)
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#65 Vaaish

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Posted 25 October 2003 - 06:43 PM

been thinking along the lines of stripes so far here is what I've added, I think I may add a little more to the inside of the wings and call the texture finished. Then head onto the interior and gear wells etc.

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#66 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 25 October 2003 - 06:45 PM

Perfect! Beautiful! I love it!

I'm glad that it didn't take much time to make an extremely cool looking avenger.
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#67 Vaaish

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Posted 25 October 2003 - 08:24 PM

ok here is the final exterior texture with specular and incandescence maping

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#68 mikker

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 02:52 PM

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#69 Deimos

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 02:52 PM

Mmmboy, that there's one purdy lookin craft.

It has all the good qualities of spacecraft from the golden era of tv scifi (the 80's for all you youngsters :)) and it has references to startrek craft in there too. I like the green go faster stripes ;)

I'm guessing that the red area is the engine intakes. Would it be possible for the xnet version to actually model that detail in and then we can have some dynamic lighting going on inside that area. Kinda like Crix's firestorm.

Minor concerns are that the front window is too angular, maybe a few more polys could be burnt on making that rounder so it catches the light better on reflections. It does forthe xnet need speed vanes, missile hatches and all the other little dodads (cool word Cpl.F;)) that will really make the difference. Other than that I'd love to see it with the alien alloy and bump map.

I still really like it though. :)

#70 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 03:47 PM

Agreed, you have outdone yourself Vaaish.
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#71 Vaaish

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 04:07 PM

Mmmboy, that there's one purdy lookin craft.

It has all the good qualities of spacecraft from the golden era of tv scifi (the 80's for all you youngsters :)) and it has references to startrek craft in there too. I like the green go faster stripes ;)

I'm guessing that the red area is the engine intakes. Would it be possible for the xnet version to actually model that detail in and then we can have some dynamic lighting going on inside that area. Kinda like Crix's firestorm.

Minor concerns are that the front window is too angular, maybe a few more polys could be burnt on making that rounder so it catches the light better on reflections. It does forthe xnet need speed vanes, missile hatches and all the other little dodads (cool word Cpl.F;)) that will really make the difference. Other than that I'd love to see it with the alien alloy and bump map.

I still really like it though. :)

Thanks,

It might be possible, not sure how many polys would have to be burnt there for the grillwork though.

I would be careful with adding in stuff like hatches and speed vanes considering that this is supposed to I guess now look ultra advanced from the lightning. thats the main reason I left most of those out.

Missile and weapons hatches could be placed in the belly similar to the F22 another option would be to place them on the sides of the fusalage.

Since we are leaning towards the sleek, clean look I want to be careful with adding many external greebles, With the nature of the craft (entering and exiting atmospheres) I don't think there will be much hanging on the exterior (not look at the space shuttle or a reentry module) since it would probably be ripped or burnt off.

I actually thought about adding more polys to the windows but then decided that I didn;t want to break the lines sweeping down the middle and left it angular.

by alien alloy you meed the irridium sheen, correct? I'm trying to make the alloy used on this craft appear to be an improvement on the broken glass version, kind of like they are able to better control the growth of the alloy.

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#72 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 05:40 PM

Well, I like the more subtle look for the alloy. I think it looks more advanced than the lightning/firestorm and that is what we are aiming for. Plus, I like the blue look.
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#73 Cmdr. Luke

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 08:27 PM

Very nice Vaaish! I like them all, especially the view from the inside. Can you put in a human scale inside the Avenger? :huh:

#74 Vaaish

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 08:54 PM

after I get the interior texture mapped I'll post a shot with the power armor in there.

#75 Breunor

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 10:47 AM

That's looking very nice. I'll update the assetlist to include these pics.

#76 Deimos

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 03:11 PM

Thanks,

It might be possible, not sure how many polys would have to be burnt there for the grillwork though.

I would be careful with adding in stuff like hatches and speed vanes considering that this is supposed to I guess now look ultra advanced from the lightning. thats the main reason I left most of those out.

Missile and weapons hatches could be placed in the belly similar to the F22 another option would be to place them on the sides of the fusalage.

Since we are leaning towards the sleek, clean look I want to be careful with adding many external greebles, With the nature of the craft (entering and exiting atmospheres) I don't think there will be much hanging on the exterior (not look at the space shuttle or a reentry module) since it would probably be ripped or burnt off.

I actually thought about adding more polys to the windows but then decided that I didn;t want to break the lines sweeping down the middle and left it angular.

by alien alloy you meed the irridium sheen, correct? I'm trying to make the alloy used on this craft appear to be an improvement on the broken glass version, kind of like they are able to better control the growth of the alloy.

I don't know but I'd say you got a few poly spare, remember for xnet we're looking at a target of 6000 polys. The one you have there would be perfect for in game (when you've finished mapping it of course ;)) IIRC Crix's original firestorm was around 32000 polys which he reduced down.

You know right after I'd logged off I thought about speed vanes and so on and thought duh the shuttle doesn't have any as they'd get ripped off. :stupid:
Oh well.

I think we'll still need the weapon hatches though :)

No worries on the windows if you wanna keep the lines following throughout the craft.

Sorry I should have said the 'broken glass' texture. I made a post in the lightining thread about it and though I do think yours looks the biz, the iridium sheen will more difficult to apply to the blueish hull, not from a modelling aspect but from a visual standpoint. If you like when you've finished it, fire the model over and I'll map it on and show what I mean. I'll need it anyway for updating all the vids as it seems everyone so ar is really positive about this one. :)

Oh btw can you say muscular X wing. I love that frontal shot.

#77 Vaaish

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 04:58 PM

ok I'll fire it off to you tonight for test. remember the only thing mapped is the exterior.

Are you just saying that the color will make it har to do the irridium sheen, if so it's pretty easy to change that in the psd as I'd prefer not to use the broken glass texture if possible or a greatly toned down version of it.

#78 Deimos

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 05:09 PM

Thanks. Yeah I had applied it to your other avenger and it mutes the effect by quite a bit compared to say the latest firestorm pic (Ok thats a bit of an exaggeration but I'm sure you get the idea). Which is IIRC in the iridium sheen thread. :)

Don't go changing anything yet. Wait till we see what the good peeps on the board think but if anything it could be toned down a bit. We'll see how it comes out. Don't worry about the interior as its just for testing the effect atm. I would fire the shader over to you but I don't think our progs are compatible. :(

In the end its all just testing though until we have the engine and shader written up :)

#79 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 05:52 PM

Can you make a really quick anim showing the avenger w/sheen flying past? (Like what you did with the firestorm?)
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#80 Breunor

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 08:24 PM

Really quick render?!? :o
:D As in, a mere 2 hour render! :D

#81 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 08:51 PM

Hmm, maby if we changed the color of the avenger? I think that is what Deimos is refering to with the sheen not showing up. Maby make the avenger silver, I don't know. You can keep the current texture (except change its color)
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#82 Vaaish

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 08:54 PM

Hmm, maby if we changed the color of the avenger? I think that is what Deimos is refering to with the sheen not showing up. Maby make the avenger silver, I don't know. You can keep the current texture (except change its color)

thats what I'm thinking but I applied the sheen from my power armor and it showed up fine on the avenger. but we'll see what Deimos is talking about.

#83 Deimos

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 03:19 AM

Can you make a really quick anim showing the avenger w/sheen flying past? (Like what you did with the firestorm?)

Hey Cpl F. ( I hope you don't mind me shortening your nick, its just that's its quite long to type :P)

Requests do get listened to here ;)

Firstly let me apologise for the time frame involved, real life and other issues intervened.

So here's what you asked for. :) One overpass of the sheen effect on the avenger.

The other amourphous looking thing at the back is just a reference to show the differences between the full on alien alloy and the avenger. What do you guys think to the reflectivity of the alien alloy on the reference shape?

{Attachement removed}

Edited by Deimos, 13 March 2004 - 12:11 PM.


#84 Vaaish

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 09:30 AM

I think it can be toned down to 1/2 or 1/4 of what it is now on the avenger and it'll look good.

#85 Breunor

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 11:12 AM

I like the current levels, it's something you won't get to see animated very often in game, and it looks cool. The current Avenger sheen gets my vote, but if others agree it's too much I'm easy going...

#86 demich

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 12:14 PM

I like alien hull sheen :). IMO on avenger it looks slightly worse . I think it's because the avenger is more blue then grey/white alien ship.

#87 Cartesian

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 05:53 PM

Damn thats good looking! I want one!

Just one thing: PPl might claim you are copying the death glider from SG1. While I dont think you are, and I think it looks oh so very cool, others might disagree.

Edited by Cartesian, 06 November 2003 - 05:54 PM.


#88 Vaaish

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 05:57 PM

IIRC the gliders from Stargate are quite a bit different in their design. They have more detached wings kind of like a bird of prey.

#89 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 06:58 PM

Yeah, plus, death gliders don't have an iridium sheen! :P

I think the avenger is perfect as it is (with the current sheen levels) except that you need to do the interior. If the interior going to have the sheen as well? I mean, it is made of alien alloys too.

And Deimos, I don't like the shape of the ufo flying besides the avenger, it looks much like a flying male organ.
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#90 Vaaish

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Posted 06 November 2003 - 08:18 PM

Yeah, plus, death gliders don't have an iridium sheen! :P

I think the avenger is perfect as it is (with the current sheen levels) except that you need to do the interior. If the interior going to have the sheen as well? I mean, it is made of alien alloys too.

And Deimos, I don't like the shape of the ufo flying besides the avenger, it looks much like a flying male organ.

I am not planning for the interior to be made of alien alloys. I was plannong on the hull, armor, nav and propulsion systems being alien and the interior being human. This is supposed to be a perfect blending of human and alien techs so I'd like the human part to be visable too,

I'm hoping to get some free time to finish up the mapping but it may be a week or 2.

#91 Deimos

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 12:06 AM

I agree with Vaaish, the mix between the two would work really well.

Cpl F. Its the new codpiece 2005 alien ship ;) Seriously though it isn't a ufo. Its just a shape to show the differences. Don't worry I wouldn't let anything so lacking in shape become a ufo. Hang onto your horses, we'll come up with something really special and full of malice and evil and "Come to the Dark side young F" that you'll be scared even looking at the thing, never mind actually assaulting one ;)

Once we get some solid ufo floorplans (hint to everyone out there) we can start looking at what would make a good (evil looking) ufo exterior.

Anyway back to topic (mmm peanuts) the Avenger. More, less, the same, colouration? Reflectivity? Come on chaps, inquiring minds need to know :)

#92 Vaaish

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 09:09 AM

as I said previously, maybe drop the sheen by about 1/2 to 3/4 and see how it looks with a more sbutle effect.

#93 Breunor

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 12:16 PM

Having 2 side by side with different levels of sheen would let us see the difference there. Personally I like the coloring, we have the dark Firestorm, the light Lightning, and this is the medium Avenger. I also like the idea of a human interior, which they all would have really for the human pilots.

#94 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 07 November 2003 - 07:50 PM

Ok, you guys have convinced me about the human interior. :)

As I said before, I think the avenger right now is perfect. Personally, I would like an visible iridium sheen, it would just ooze style. :)
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#95 Deimos

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 11:09 PM

Two avengers sitting in a tree

{Attachement removed}

Edited by Deimos, 13 March 2004 - 12:12 PM.


#96 Breunor

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 01:24 AM

Very nice, I still like the shiny version, fresh out of the shower, killing machine.

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 07:14 AM

nice organic curves.
something Bab 5 about them.

#98 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 09:04 AM

Beautiful. Simply Beautiful. The more I see the work you artists are doing, the more I think that Xenocide will be used as a Half-Life esque benchmark for all strategy games... :)

I agree with Bruenor, the Shiny one gets my vote.
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#99 Vaaish

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 11:46 AM

I like the one on the right of that last set you rendered, Deimos :)

#100 demich

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 11:57 AM

I want to see interior! :rock: