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Baseview Assets Part 2


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#51 Breunor

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 09:13 AM

Those are looking very good Vaaish.

#52 Vaaish

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 10:47 AM

Ok I'll consider the laser defense complete then and move on to the plasma defense. (basically just changing the cannon.)

as soon as I get he tplasma done I'll be sending you another set, drewid.

#53 Vaaish

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 04:30 PM

ok here is the plasma defense. splitting it up into two turrets was about the only option left for turret type since you folks don't like a single cannon fitting on there.

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#54 Vaaish

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 04:31 PM

and the next... the lower level is the same as the laser defense.

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#55 Vaaish

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 04:32 PM

and the last. please do not use the cannons as indicators of scale. use the power armor model I put in there. Areas that look small are probably bigger that you think.

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#56 GreatGold

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 04:43 PM

Hey -

I REALLY like thos shots. The cannons look very large, and mean. Imagine that with some sort of Plasma animation.... very sweet...

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#57 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 07:06 PM

I REALLY like thos shots.  The cannons look very large, and mean.  Imagine that with some sort of Plasma animation.... very sweet...

That would be really cool during a base attack. Every so often the defences rise up and fire (at escort ships or something) while you're fighting around the base of the lift.

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#58 GreatGold

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Posted 22 July 2003 - 09:32 PM

Or even if they just have a "primed to fire" look where the plasma shot is slowly building and getting larger....
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#59 miceless

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 03:44 AM

How quickly would they move around? They are presumably quite heavy, so i would imagine they would move slowly.

Also, if your in the middle of defending the base, they probably wouldnt have anything to fire at would they?
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#60 mikker

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 05:06 AM

They could fire at the battleship hoovering above, making it unable to give backup fire for the aliens. It simply have to land.

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#61 Vaaish

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 05:22 AM

I thik the plasma building effect is plausible, having the cannons raise and fire every so often will get reprtitive and cheesy. If you base has aliens in it I would assume that the defensive emplacements have failed. If an alien vessel has gotten this far I would assume that it has landed and there is no way the tracking system can pick up the threat.

#62 zwn

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 05:51 AM

I thik the plasma building effect is plausible, having the cannons raise and fire every so often will get reprtitive and cheesy. If you base has aliens in it I would assume that the defensive emplacements have failed. If an alien vessel has gotten this far I would assume that it has landed and there is no way the tracking system can pick up the threat.


In that case, the cannons could just move around aimlessly trying desperately to home in on the ufo scouted before. As an afterthought however, random shooting would add to the atmosphere of a serious alien attack on the base. My opinion: those details add to the gameplay experience and should be considered even if slightly illogical... :rolleyes:

#63 GreatGold

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 09:24 AM

Im not sure about it firing, but I definately think there should be some form of animation where the Plasma bolt is visibly waiting to be fired. The bolt could be in a transparent part of the Plasma barrel, or something to that effect. And it would be large enough to cast a very interesting lighting over the room. I think it would look pretty bloody neeat.

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#64 Vaaish

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 10:18 AM

Im not sure about it firing, but I definately think there should be some form of animation where the Plasma bolt is visibly waiting to be fired.  The bolt could be in a transparent part of the Plasma barrel, or something to that effect.  And it would be large enough to cast a very interesting lighting over the room.  I think it would look pretty bloody neeat.

Gold

@gold:I agree. very plausible and effective.

@zwn: actually you wouldn't even see the cannons themselves move. all that would happen is the platform would raise, the cannons would be occluded since they go above the current level and then the come down. pretty boring and very repetitive to se them go up and down, up and down, up and down ad infinitum. there just isn't any point in adding animation where there logically should be none. In the workshop the arms can move and maybe have some animated screens in the other rooms but overall it's going to look bad if everything is moving. Movement for movements sake is bad, movement with purpose is good.

the other reason is that the only platform needing to lower for reload is the misile defense. all others are energy based adn simply stay up until the contact has been lost (landed) or is out of range (escaped)

Edited by Vaaish, 23 July 2003 - 10:19 AM.


#65 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 10:36 AM

I think he is referring 2 the discussed ( possible ) inclusion of base battles starting above the base, maybe with half the troops above ground and if they are getting whooped the head down and fight inside the base. The threads round someplace, I can't remember a decision tho.

#66 Vaaish

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 11:04 AM

I read about that but that seems to be something beyond the scope of 1.0

#67 Breunor

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 11:15 AM

And once it was in place, you'd still shoot down the ships prior to the battle. So the guns wouldn't be firing then either...

#68 mikker

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 11:45 AM

Can you turn the cannons, and use them as death-traps for aliens walking trough the door? :devillaugh:

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#69 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 12:10 PM

Heh...would be interesting.
:explode:

I suspect htat you'd lose a significant percentage of your base doing that, though. :D

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#70 zwn

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 12:24 PM

to Vaaish: point taken, you're right; that kind of animation is plain boring. but you got me right - miscallaneous animation (like in the workshop) is the one i favored. so how about a waepon self-test now and then (i.e like flippin the cannons once) ? just a suggestion :D

#71 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 01:32 PM

I don't think that would happen in the middle of a battle. One this that would work however is this: Since the weapons have just been used, maybe a kinda smoke effect in that room due to the heat of plasma and laser? Would help set some more atmosphere in game. I dunno, I just keep draggin things off topic don't I? So, is that all the base modules done now? Maybe someone senior could bump up getting the base screen in priority. After the X-Net's done ofcause :)

#72 Vaaish

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Posted 23 July 2003 - 03:12 PM

to Vaaish: point taken, you're right; that kind of animation is plain boring. but you got me right - miscallaneous animation (like in the workshop) is the one i favored. so how about a waepon self-test now and then (i.e like flippin the cannons once) ? just a suggestion :D

I think we can take care of that with stuff like the plasma glow raising etc. I'll have to think about how to implement it exactally.

#73 Vaaish

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 05:16 AM

if no other comments I'll move on to the 3 remaining facility structures.

#74 Breunor

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Posted 24 July 2003 - 05:57 AM

Everything's looking good Vaaish. Regarding animations, there was discussion in the past about using some when you're assigning workshop/lab use. For example, if you clicked on whatever item activated the research dialog, the lab facility would appear in the background with some animations of scientists working, equipment running, lights blinking, that kind of thing. Even if that wasn't done, you could use an animation when building facilities. When you click on a facility to build it, you'd see the animation then. I think having items like the plasma cannon just making some noise & flashing lights on it would be good in a battlescape view. If there's lots of movement, you have to avoid getting crushed by a platform and things like that.

#75 Vaaish

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Posted 27 July 2003 - 01:48 PM

ok and on to the mind shield.

This one is kind of tought to get across since it is 3 stories. No real control center but we do have the consoles spaced around the module.

it is 1289 polys.

first image top floor

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#76 Vaaish

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Posted 27 July 2003 - 01:49 PM

and he middle floor where the whole thing connects to the rest of the base.

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#77 Vaaish

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Posted 27 July 2003 - 01:50 PM

and the lower floor containing the power generator

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#78 Vaaish

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Posted 27 July 2003 - 01:51 PM

and a final shot hopefully to give a better idea of how it fits toegether.

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#79 miceless

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 12:47 AM

Looks very nice! I can almost see myself have gunfights in there. :D

Im just trying to look at how the access ramps work. As far as I can see they either dont connect up or lead to a roof.

Actually, i think i see how it works. The middle level has a mezzanine (sp?) level type balcony type thing, correct? Is it missing from the third pic?
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#80 Vaaish

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 05:23 AM

you are correct. The lower ramp connects to a wrap around floor where the upper ramp then connects to. Basically the idea is that when the player switches the view level the top and it's floor are occluded but the ramp up to the top is still visable on the middle level. the same goes for the lower level.

I removed the third level for the last image so you could get a better idea of how the thing fits together. Also the last image is what the module would most likly appear as in the baseview.

Edited by Vaaish, 28 July 2003 - 05:32 AM.


#81 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 06:05 AM

I can hear it humming now.

what are you thinking for the coils? Big copper wraps perhaps?

#82 Breunor

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 06:07 AM

Why is this facility 3 levels? I thought the entire base was 2 levels only, not including ground level. Has this changed?

#83 miceless

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 06:35 AM

We seemed to have enough difficulty persuading someone to make a defense two levels, and here is one three level one. I think that all of them should be at least two levels, as in the original.

Are you deciding on the number of levels for each one as you go along?
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#84 GreatGold

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 07:55 AM

Hey -

I think three levels is fine, if it fits in the same 3D space as another 2 level structure. I guess it will be a bit more cramped, but if it fits I have no objections. It will add a nicel tactical change in either case.

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#85 miceless

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 08:24 AM

Dont get me wrong. I like three levels. I was just wondering which ones will be one level, which ones two, etc.
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#86 Breunor

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 09:09 AM

Actually I'm not sure there would be space for 3 levels unless the overall height is tall enough. So long as there's 2.5m per level after flooring is subtracted, you can make as many ramps as you want in the facility. Technically there's only 1 floor, as we don't have one facility above/below another. Unless you could access a facility from different floors, which could require a lot of changes. I can see the base design eventually going to a multi level design, where you could have overalpping facilities that are connected either by player-assigned staris, or only through the use of multi-story connecting facilities. But that's v1+++.

So I guess for now my question is irrelevent, every facility is a fixed maximum height and all connecting doors are on the same level, so it's a fancy 1 level base...

#87 Vaaish

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 03:04 PM

Why is this facility 3 levels? I thought the entire base was 2 levels only, not including ground level. Has this changed?

well considering the fact that the two radar modules are 3 stories and the hanger is 3 I thought that this would add a nice edge to the game. If I have to I can knock off the 3rd level w/o affecting the design much.

Basically most of the modules are two stories with a few one story ones like the lab and workshop but every now and again to fit the pieces in logically they need more.

eg the hanger is three because to properly fit in the avenger (which has to be the height it is so the troops can get inside) if needs the extra stories.

the Radar needs to be 3 because ofthe need to have a large radar array and to keep it above the walkways so it doesn't fry everyone in front of it.

#88 Vaaish

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Posted 28 July 2003 - 03:16 PM

The attached image shows how they fit together. for base view the walls around levels 2 and 3 are removed so as not to obscure other base structures.

some levels such as levels 2 and 3 of the radar have no floors this allows floaters and flight suits to be used to a higher degree. Again I am going for a tactical mix here something that will give a diverse challenge to the player depending on which entrance he uses and what aliens are in the module.

Please remember that I have quite a few variables to take into account when I create these stcutures. I am not just randomly making them 2 and 3 stories and hoping they fit together.

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Edited by Vaaish, 28 July 2003 - 03:24 PM.


#89 miceless

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 02:17 AM

Nice diagram!

IS there are reason why radar is notthe same setup as mind shield? If we go for the idea of having up to three levels, but making sure that the main level is always the middle one (like in mind shield) doesnt that reduce the amount of space we shave to have availabe? Or does it not matter?

Also, why is plasma not like Storage, as i think it makes more sense that way. Or should plasma get a third level where the weapon rises up into?
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#90 Vaaish

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 05:23 AM

Nice diagram!

IS there are reason why radar is notthe same setup as mind shield? If we go for the idea of having up to three levels, but making sure that the main level is always the middle one (like in mind shield) doesnt that reduce the amount of space we shave to have availabe? Or does it not matter?

Also, why is plasma not like Storage, as i think it makes more sense that way. Or should plasma get a third level where the weapon rises up into?

The radar can only go up since the dish has to sit above the level where people will be walking. I can't split it up the same as with the Mind shield w/o completely messing that up since I am trying to make sure that people people are not constantly swept with the radar emissions.

again the main level of plasma has the doors and has to be on the same plain as the rest of the base. I put the generator equiptment in a sub level since we can't really have the cannon rise through the generators. basically there would be a lift that takes it up to the surface.

General storage had to be built the way it is because most of the racks rise 2 stories and it makes it a little more open and tactically diverse having an open second level for floaters and other aliens to hide in.

Just looks odd having a 2 story storage facility and a floor splitting it in the middle.

#91 miceless

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 05:41 AM

Ok, i suppose that all sounds sensible. I just wondered why there was so much variety in the layouts. I guess each one has its own needs.
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#92 Vaaish

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 03:15 PM

To stear this topic back to the module at hand; are there more comments on the mind shield If not I'll start on the grav shield.

#93 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 04:51 PM

Regarding the grav shield, there's been some talk to change the way it works in the CTD, but none of it official. The idea was rather than focused gravity waves to physically repel the ship only once (which was kind of silly...if it works once, why not more times?), it would broadcast psionic 'static' of some sort to interfere with the alien navigation, slowing the invading ship's approach, and consequently give the defenses more time to fire.

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#94 GreatGold

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 05:22 PM

Hey -

Captain is completely correct. I don't know of that will affect your design at all, though. If you read the UFO Navigation entry, you can see the psi plays a large role in piloting. We thought it would be best if that was how the Grav Shield works - by "jamming" the psi signals that maneoveur the UFO. I'm sure we will need a new name to reflect this, but that will come later.

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#95 Vaaish

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 05:31 PM

ok I can work on the hyperwave decoder and then the grav shield

#96 j'ordos

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 05:57 PM

Wasn't the grav shield's effect just to slow down incoming craft, so your cannons had extra time to fire at them? I'm not sure, but I didn't think they completely repelled the alien battleships, they only increased their landing time by slowing them down :unsure:
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#97 GreatGold

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 07:28 PM

Hey -

In the original, they slowed down the craft to the point where another round of defensive weapons could be fired. But since that won't work with our Nav and Power Source entries, we had to change it.

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#98 tzuchan

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 08:15 PM

GreatGold, are you sure that's wise?
I get the feeling that we are puttin gall our eggs in one basket with the overuse of pyshic abilities and machinces that uses that to slow down battleships sounds much to incredible... What are we going to call it? the "Telekinease projecttion center" that uses all the minds in the bace to create one big "push" that holds the ufo away? :whatwhat:

What I'm saying that although the UFO nav. makes use of "pyshic" tech to pilot the ufo, I've yet too see anything similiar mentioned about the ufo ppower source and I find a ufo power source that "amplifies the psyhic abilities of the onboard minds to generate a telekineatic field to propel the ufo" VERY hard to believe, even for a game.
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#99 GreatGold

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 08:36 PM

Tzuchan -

You misunderstood what I wrote. The way we have decided to have the Grav Shield work has nothing to do with the Power Source. It interferes with the UFO Navigation unit, similar to how the Mind Shield interferes with the ability of aliens to find the base.

In fact, nothing psionic is used by the facility, it instead jams the psionics of the aliens (so its sort of the oppposite). Similiar to say, jamming an ILS system in todays regular civilan craft. So in effect, instead of the navigators just landing the battleship right on top of you, they have to take more time to fix up and maneuveur their approach. As if their radar was giving thenm trouble, and they just needed more time to lock it on. That extra time is where you get the second round of defensive fire.

As to having all our eggs in one basket, the only thing that uses Psionics (other than the act of Psionics) is the UFO Navigation. Which seems to make sense, as it would be waaaaay to human and archaic to have an advanced race using a flightstick.

It also allows us to feed into the Mind Shield entry, because it is impossible to get the Mind Shield prior to the Grav Shield. Something along the lines of "Now that we have had basic experiences working with Facility X, we can apply that to a much stronger facility Y."

As to a name, we are open to suggestions. The most probable would be something along the lines of "UFO Nav Shield". Although I'd prefer something more creative myself.

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#100 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 29 July 2003 - 08:38 PM

I could make an Anne Macaffrey reference about psionic stardrives, but I'll resist....

Overall, we're basing quite alot of the alien technology on psionics. Even the plasma weapons have a psionic component, IIRC.

I admit, I was thinking of calling it Psionic Disrupter, Navigational Disruptor or Actuality Shield. :D

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Edit: Do'h! GG beat me to it.

Edited by Cpt. Boxershorts, 29 July 2003 - 08:39 PM.

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