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T-shirt Armour: merged topics


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#101 Vaaish

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Posted 07 September 2003 - 09:25 PM

I have only created a temp skeleton to test the feisability of animating the power armor. For the time being at least I don't think we need to worry about getting a skeleton.

#102 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 12:10 AM

Won't it be a problem when I create the skin if we need 2 move the joints around 2 fit the skeleton? Or ain't this a problem?

#103 Vaaish

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 06:24 AM

Won't it be a problem when I create the skin if we need 2 move the joints around 2 fit the skeleton? Or ain't this a problem?

also why I didn't make a bitmap skin for the powerarmor :) we can add all that a bit later once we get the skeleton hammered out.

#104 Breunor

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 08:43 AM

I think this points out the need for using a good reference drawing however. If the same scale drawing is used for the various models as well as for the animation skeleton, it makes life much easier IMO. We don't want GI Joe to become taller have shorter arms for example, just by putting on a different armor, which is what will happen here. Vaaish might have a concept pic he used in the background while designing the armor, if so that should be used throughout for keeping every model scaled to each other. I hope you see the issue here, if the Tshirt model has shoulders that are too wide when compared to the armor model, we'll end up having to redo a lot of work later rather than up front. I strongly suggest that a properly scaled drawing be made and/or compared to the power armor models and then used for this model as well. It will make it more consistent and will really help the animators when they can also use the same refence model for creating a swappable skeleton.

#105 Vaaish

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 10:17 AM

actually I didn't put a referance image in the background, I kept the concept pic in a separate window and built it from that. I made a few aesthetic changes to limb length primarily on the legs. (before you yell and scream, look at the sculpture of the seated moses. the limbs are llonger than normal to adjust for the viewing angle.)

Edited by Vaaish, 08 September 2003 - 10:18 AM.


#106 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 08 September 2003 - 05:46 PM

I worked from the drawing Fux made, think it is on page b4 this 1. I'll just leave the skin 4 now and do something else till someone wants 2 create the skeleton ( whoever is gonna take on the animating, good luck :LOL: )

#107 Breunor

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Posted 09 September 2003 - 08:17 AM

Jim, could you post the model either in the ftp archive or as a file in this thread for us? If Vaaish is interested, he could then make sure it's scaled to his models, possibly match up the verts for the joints so the animation skeleton can be one size fits all.

#108 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 03:11 PM

Done. Who is doing the animating? BTW, I've added some textures ( the head and some goggles ) Also the textures aren't at the right size currently, I will fix that.

#109 Vaaish

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 03:46 PM

ATM I don't have access to the FTP (very restrictive proxy) if someone wants to send me the file I'll take a look at it :)

#110 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 06:24 PM

4 anyone who is interested here is the texturing so far ( goddam it is hard :) )

Edit: I have made sure that it is easy enough to switch between different camo designs with reletively little work, so we could have different camo's depending on the region if peeps want that ( I think we should )

Edit2: I have applied a circular texture to the arms and legs, only a temporary measure, so that I can get a better feel for how it will look ingame. I thought peeps might be interested so here is an updated one.

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Edited by Jim69, 13 September 2003 - 07:27 PM.


#111 fux0r666

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 08:36 PM

You ought to lengthen to tunic to about thigh length... no that this is the ingame skin or nothin'.

Edited by fux0r666, 13 September 2003 - 08:37 PM.


Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#112 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 08:39 PM

Not entirely sure I know what u mean.

Edit: I thought u meant the torso area but it can't be that coz scaling it down to where the thigh area would look pretty strange.

Edited by Jim69, 13 September 2003 - 08:41 PM.


#113 fux0r666

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 08:49 PM

Note the length of the tunic on Battle Dress Uniforms.

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Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#114 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 08:53 PM

i c. It isn't actually a tunic, it is a kevlar vest with a DPM pattern over the top. That could be why it looks a little strange, I guess I need a better way of showing this. Dunno how tho.

#115 Vaaish

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 09:14 PM

Jim don't worry about it. I'll tweak it when I get the model. Check your PM.

#116 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 September 2003 - 10:05 PM

Oh well, ISP is screwed, I might as well try uploading here, I think it is too big, but u never know.

Hey it worked :happybanana:

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Edited by Jim69, 13 September 2003 - 10:06 PM.


#117 Vaaish

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 07:22 AM

THat one is doing the same thing the others did. Try attaching all your separate objects into one single object.

#118 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 07:43 AM

Done, what program are you using? I tried importing them back into 3D MAX and they looked fine, very strange.

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#119 Vaaish

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 10:16 AM

I'm using Maya 4, THat last file worked great, thanks.

Edited by Vaaish, 14 September 2003 - 10:18 AM.


#120 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 10:35 AM

Anyone who is using Milkshape having the same problem? Just for reference because sometimes 3DSM won't let you attach mesh's that are created seperatly and I'm not sure what causes it but it could happen ingame as well ( which would be a pain in the arse )

Edited by Jim69, 14 September 2003 - 10:35 AM.


#121 Vaaish

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 10:09 PM

ok I'm working on tweaking Jims model... here is the rebuilt torso and head, Right now I'm at exactaly 1000 polys but I can probably cut a few elsewhere if the legs take more than 500.

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#122 Vaaish

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Posted 14 September 2003 - 10:11 PM

and the next... I am aware that the arms are probably a little long but I'm adding to the length a tad at the shoulder to compensate for and squashing that might take place in animation and I'll tweak the length after I get the legs on

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#123 fux0r666

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 12:36 AM

Here is good source material for tactical body armour:

Tactical Options Product Page

I had a much better one when I was researching material for a comic book I was doing but I couldn't find it. It had more shots of people wearing the products.

I don't know if it's the angle of the lense you used but sidelong he is waaay too thin for someone who is wearing a ballistic vest.

Edited by fux0r666, 15 September 2003 - 02:46 AM.


Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#124 Vaaish

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 05:46 AM

it's the lack of pockets on the vest. There isn't enough polys available to get htem all in.
however even based on that site the vest itself doesn't look that thick. This is the limit of my tweaking the vest at least until I fisnish the legs. I need to get the whoel model in under budget before I start tweaking too much.

There will be pleanty of tweaking later, the female version of this and both the male and female personal armor will be based off of it.

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Edited by Vaaish, 15 September 2003 - 05:56 AM.


#125 Breunor

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 06:31 AM

Looking very good.

Jim, I was able to import both versions of the 3ds file in Milkshape, but the first one was missing an arm and the chest was not lined up with the rest of the model if that helps any.

#126 Deimos

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 06:40 PM

Vaaish, top stuff. Looking well detailed, I especially like the detail on the face. I'll leave comments on proportion until you've got the whole model done ;)

Don't worry about pockets and that kind of detail, it can be added in with the use of bump maps.

For skinning we do have a texture map that Drewid posted which we're using as our base camo. Its an all terrain camo that'll look good on models while keeping them distinct enough so the player doesn't lose his soldiers.

#127 fux0r666

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 07:50 PM

Why camo? Why not black like most HRUs?

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#128 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 08:05 PM

It's gonna look pretty strange against snow.

#129 fux0r666

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 08:08 PM

So would mottled green. The point of the black and the bellaclavas is to be intimidating.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#130 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 08:10 PM

I meant the green camo's actually, but black would look pretty strange as well. A compromise I spose unless we have different camo's for the different landscapes ( i think we should )

#131 Vaaish

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 09:56 PM

So would mottled green.  The point of the black and the bellaclavas is to be intimidating.

Look intimidating to who? the civies?

I don''t think that aliens are going to be intimidated by the same things, Personally though I don't see a problem with the forrest camo flack jacket and a desert camo outfit or viceversa. And do remember they really aren't wearing arctic gear, We might eventually have one model for each zone until you get to flight and power armors. but that is a long way off.

Either way there are good odds that this model won't even be implemented before january and for that matter beyond the baseview assets I don' think many of the models will be ingame for quite some time.

Right now art seems to be the one area we are quite aways ahead in. Granted we do need alot of textures still but that will come soon.

#132 fux0r666

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Posted 15 September 2003 - 10:08 PM

Yeah, who says that aliens see in the same wavelengths we do? The psychological effect is as much for the soldiers benefit as their enemies detriment. If we are going for a special forces sort of feel, and we aren't doing more than one kind of camo for the soldiers, I think their BDU's should be black.

Edit: It's also the most fitting for all environments. You can imagine soldiers in black fatigues rapidly responding to a farmer's field... But if they are going to wear inappropriate camoflage the gamer is going to go, 'haha, those idiots.'

Edited by fux0r666, 15 September 2003 - 10:10 PM.


Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#133 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 04:16 AM

So would mottled green.  The point of the black and the bellaclavas is to be intimidating.

Look intimidating to who? the civies?

I don''t think that aliens are going to be intimidated by the same things, Personally though I don't see a problem with the forrest camo flack jacket and a desert camo outfit or viceversa. And do remember they really aren't wearing arctic gear, We might eventually have one model for each zone until you get to flight and power armors. but that is a long way off.

Either way there are good odds that this model won't even be implemented before january and for that matter beyond the baseview assets I don' think many of the models will be ingame for quite some time.

Right now art seems to be the one area we are quite aways ahead in. Granted we do need alot of textures still but that will come soon.

January is a bit ambitious isn't it? I don't think the Geoscape will be finished by then ( no offence to the programmers, I know you are working hard but there is a lot to do ).

Black seems to make more sense than jungle camo, tho it should be envioroment specific. It doesn't matter what texture we do now tho, because we are a long way off from the Battlescape so things like this would decided then I'd imagine.

#134 Breunor

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 08:49 AM

I think he meant having it modeled and skinned by then, not that everything would be done by then, but I might be misreading it. I would vote for having camo over black, as the black is only helping out in night missions. Having a camo base with various accesories (which could be black or shades of tan?) would give a good mix IMO. Yes there will be those icy terrains and desert terrains where it won't blend in, but having the code detect which map type and swap out textures would probably be v1+. It would be nice to have it switch them, but not at the expense of bug-free coding IMO.

#135 fux0r666

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 01:38 PM

That would mean that the team would have prior knowledge as to the kind of terrain the are going to see at the crash site, which is kind of impossible. If the team was responding to a crash site in north western USA they would respond in temperate rainforest garb, regardless of the fact that it maybe be a crash site in a huge wheat field where everything is yellow and tan.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#136 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 01:44 PM

Well, they the interceptor pilot would kind of know where he downed the ufo. And sure they might not be able to predict a wheat field or farm, but they could guess the general temperature, so they would wear green camo for temperate missions, tan camo for desert, and white for artic.
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#137 fux0r666

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 01:47 PM

They would go by geographical and ecological region and weather reports.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#138 j'ordos

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 02:46 PM

Ok, say your Interceptor knows where it shot down the UFO. What if your Skyranger already was in the air, before the UFO was shot down? What camo will they wear then??

I'd say, one-camo-fits-all is good enough, as it's kinda weird to chase a UFO on the pole, launch your skyranger, but suddenly the UFO breaks for the sahara where it's shot down, and there your men are, out in the desert in their snow camo ^_^ (edit: and it would be even weirder would they show up in their desert camo, as a misson in the snow was expected :D )

Edited by j'ordos, 16 September 2003 - 02:47 PM.

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#139 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 03:33 PM

You launch your skyranger while the ufo is still flying?
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#140 fux0r666

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 06:52 PM

Yeah, why not?

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#141 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 06:58 PM

What if the ufo outruns your interceptor, and there is a terrorsite on the other end of the world?
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#142 fux0r666

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 07:10 PM

Then you redirect your skyranger to the terror site.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#143 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 07:34 PM

That could be explained easily as they could take all the DPM's with them and equip before they land.

#144 fux0r666

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 07:42 PM

Usually you don't get dressed in a combat aircraft.. heh.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


Posted Image

#145 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 07:43 PM

LOL, true :) I guess it is one of those things that doesn't need to be explained

#146 Vaaish

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 08:12 PM

well let me direct this topic back to the armor model instead of the texture :)

currently standing at ~1150 polys

I've removed the lower portion of the bdu blouse for the time being since it interferes with the lower segment and drives me up a wall when I'm trying to get the thing to line up with the torso. It is relatively simple to add back on later.

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#147 Vaaish

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 08:16 PM

and the next, I have tweaked the proportions somewhat but the legs are still a little long and the torso might still be a tad short. I'll finalize it after the boots are done

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Edited by Vaaish, 16 September 2003 - 08:17 PM.


#148 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 08:25 PM

Looks pretty good. I think that there could be some more detail actually built into the vest in the way of packs. The only example I could find is the one from Raven Shield, it's not exactly what I am thinking but it's an idea. ( sorry bout the bad quality as well, hopefully it demonstartes what I mean )

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#149 Vaaish

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 10:04 PM

ok here is what I have now. weighing in at 1304 polys. I'm still leary to add detail to the vest since I'm probably going to need those 200 polys to convert this to personal armor.

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#150 Vaaish

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Posted 16 September 2003 - 10:05 PM

and thefront view. I think the arms might be a tad long but haven't decided especially since I'm going to need the a little long to make up for the squash when they are animated. I'm also thinking about tweaking the boots some more, not 100% happy with them.

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