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#1 T-1

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 06:57 AM

Along the lines of the idea of different directions you could take mention in the nanotech thread (http://www.xcomufo.c...?showtopic=1749), you could applz that to many things other than nanotech and genetics. For example, part of the reason some countries sign the pact with the aliens is to stop the terror missions right? Well, you could always have X-Corps terror missions in those countries be even worse then the alien ones. :devillaugh: And the aliens probobly wouldn't take the time to stop X-corps, unlike when you go to stop the alien's terror missions. To take the idea even further you could use extortion and all kinds of fun stuff like that to get more funding.

#2 T-1

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 02:59 PM

So, no comments on this?

#3 x0563511

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Posted 07 August 2004 - 08:20 PM

I have a fairly useless comment...

That is just plain evil. Your supposed to be saving them! I say just pull a Bay of Pigs (correctly!) and get that uncooperative government out of the way.

#4 T-1

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 01:55 AM

I have a fairly useless comment...

That is just plain evil. Your supposed to be saving them! I say just pull a Bay of Pigs (correctly!) and get that uncooperative government out of the way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thats the point. Both the old style and this style of play would be balanced gameplay-wise, Because once you start doing this, you can't let up or they'll cut your funding. And you need more base defense, because other countries would attack you.

Evil == More funding, More missions to use up that funding.

And if all the countries in the world decide they won't pay you anymore, then you can just raid them for weapons to sell on the black market.

Also. imagine all the drugs you could make via "Alien Entertainment"(like psiclone in apoc.). :happybanana:

And imagine all the weapons research/soldier training on live targets in alien containment. :devillaugh: You could also do testing on things like "On average, how easy is it to make alien species A to panic/berserk?"

#5 centurion

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 03:22 AM

And if all the countries in the world decide they won't pay you anymore, then you can just raid them for weapons to sell on the black market.

Also. imagine all the drugs you could make via "Alien Entertainment"(like psiclone in apoc.). :happybanana:

And imagine all the weapons research/soldier training on live targets in alien containment. :devillaugh:  You could also do testing on things like "On average, how easy is it to make alien species A to panic/berserk?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, and in fact, you could ally with the technologically advanced friendly aliens aganst the big bad governments that won't pay your bills ... that's not the game we are trying to make, right? If this level of pragmatism is allowed, the game dies.

As for the last comment, well, fear the powers of PETA(liens) ... :devillaugh:
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#6 T-1

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 03:30 AM

And if all the countries in the world decide they won't pay you anymore, then you can just raid them for weapons to sell on the black market.

Also. imagine all the drugs you could make via "Alien Entertainment"(like psiclone in apoc.).   :happybanana:

And imagine all the weapons research/soldier training on live targets in alien containment. :devillaugh:  You could also do testing on things like "On average, how easy is it to make alien species A to panic/berserk?"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right, and in fact, you could ally with the technologically advanced friendly aliens aganst the big bad governments that won't pay your bills ... that's not the game we are trying to make, right? If this level of pragmatism is allowed, the game dies.

As for the last comment, well, fear the powers of PETA(liens) ... :devillaugh:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The aliens would continue to attack you. And if you do that, game over, earth is screwed. You're still trying to beat the aliens.

#7 centurion

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 05:37 AM

The aliens would continue to attack you. And if you do that, game over, earth is screwed. You're still trying to beat the aliens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thw governments would continue to attack you, so you're screwed.
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#8 T-1

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 08:04 AM

As said in the nanotech thread, you could have different game endings, and with this approach in the end, you basically would become the governments.

#9 centurion

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 08:56 AM

Oh come on, the goverments have put down organizations greater than that. Besides, the people will have a say into this, too.
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#10 T-1

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 09:50 AM

Not if you have blaster launchers and heavy plasma of all sorts that you have at the end of the game. And X-Corps is supposed to be the best of the best. And then additionally you have the possibility of the nanotechnological/genetic enhancements mentioned in the nanotech thread. There's simply very little way they could fight back. Creating X-Corps in my opinion is a stupid thing in the first place, because it easily can lead to such situations.

#11 centurion

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 09:55 AM

Well, after a couple of XCORPS terror missions, the governments will use nuclear stuff and carpet bombing without qualms.
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#12 T-1

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 10:27 AM

Well, they don't know where the X-Corps bases are...

#13 centurion

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 10:41 AM

Well, they don't know where the X-Corps bases are...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nothing some surveillance wouldn't help.
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#14 T-1

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 10:45 AM

And then why don't they just nuke alien bases?

#15 x0563511

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 11:36 AM

Because that's your job. One of the reasons x-corp was created was to deal with the aliens. You dont see other countries supporing you on terror ops or UFO recoveries, do you?


But still... if you can hide a base from the aliens i think you can hide it from Mr. 2nd world country with a nuke or two.

#16 centurion

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 11:43 AM

And then why don't they just nuke alien bases?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because the civilians don't have to know about aliens, a nuke produces pretty visible signs of deployment, and there's no usable explanation as to why does the government use a nuke in its own backyard.

But still... if you can hide a base from the aliens i think you can hide it from Mr. 2nd world country with a nuke or two.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First, we are not talking about Mr. 2nd world country (though, consider Russia before you say something like that ...), we are talking about The Powers That Be, who KNOW your last financed base positions; and secondly, hiding from a dozen aliens and resident civilians is not the same as hiding from the military conducting a search.
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#17 x0563511

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 11:51 AM

Well, after you deal with the aliens, you are already on mars. You already have alien tech.

Why not put your bases on mars? Sure, youd be taking the aliens place for a while, but think about it. Most governments wouldnt resist under THAT kind of pressure. What would the US have done against 5 russias? probably given up.


EDIT: We should stop this line of debate. This is turning political.

Edited by x0563511, 08 August 2004 - 11:51 AM.


#18 T-1

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 11:56 AM

And then why don't they just nuke alien bases?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because the civilians don't have to know about aliens, a nuke produces pretty visible signs of deployment, and there's no usable explanation as to why does the government use a nuke in its own backyard.

But still... if you can hide a base from the aliens i think you can hide it from Mr. 2nd world country with a nuke or two.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First, we are not talking about Mr. 2nd world country (though, consider Russia before you say something like that ...), we are talking about The Powers That Be, who KNOW your last financed base positions; and secondly, hiding from a dozen aliens and resident civilians is not the same as hiding from the military conducting a search.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Military can't well conduct a search in anarctica with that anti-military treaty.

#19 centurion

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 12:01 PM

Being able to destroy a martian base does not mean the ability to construct and use bases on Mars.

What treaty? In the face of the deadly danger of the evil XCORPS all treaties are null and void.
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#20 T-1

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 12:02 PM

You have a point there. But we can easily shoot down nukes with plasma defences.

EDIT: You could make it so that nukes come every so often, just like alien battleships, if plasma defences don't shoot them down, well then? say Goodbye :wave: to that base.

Edited by T-1, 08 August 2004 - 12:04 PM.


#21 centurion

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 12:10 PM

But we can easily shoot down nukes with plasma defences.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I must direct your attention to the fact that nukes are not the same size/speed as an alien battleship. Additionally, with multiple&dummy warheads you can have whatever defences you want, there's no way IMHO to get lots of small identical fast targets at the technological level used in the game.

Oh, and a new argument: you will run out of Xenium in a matter of days if you fight on a large scale, so you will be left with lasers and deadweight Avengers.
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#22 T-1

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 12:17 PM

But we can easily shoot down nukes with plasma defences.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I must direct your attention to the fact that nukes are not the same size/speed as an alien battleship. Additionally, with multiple&dummy warheads you can have whatever defences you want, there's no way IMHO to get lots of small identical fast targets at the technological level used in the game.

Oh, and a new argument: you will run out of Xenium in a matter of days if you fight on a large scale, so you will be left with lasers and deadweight Avengers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The warheads are going to be using human technology, meaning they will be nowhere near as fast as alien battleships. They will be smaller though. To be realistic, they'd appear on the planetview (with a "Nuclear missile detected" warning.) and you could send interceptors after them.

Elerium could be a problem, but then again you could just use lasers and more advanced human tech on them and you'd still be kicking their donkey.

Because the civilians don't have to know about aliens, a nuke produces pretty visible signs of deployment, and there's no usable explanation as to why does the government use a nuke in its own backyard.


The civilians don't know about X-corps, either, now do they?

Edited by T-1, 08 August 2004 - 12:19 PM.


#23 x0563511

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 12:34 PM

Don't forget the metal gear series of games...

Utilizing a railgun you could launch a nuclear weapon at above mach speeds ballisticly. Hard to detect, almost impossible to stop.

#24 T-1

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 12:42 PM

Don't forget the metal gear series of games...

Utilizing a railgun you could launch a nuclear weapon at above mach speeds ballisticly. Hard to detect, almost impossible to stop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


But thats not modern human tech. Non-X-Corps humans only have modern human weapons.

#25 x0563511

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 12:53 PM

but surely SOME of the x-corp research is given to public knowlege...

#26 T-1

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 12:55 PM

but surely SOME of the x-corp research is given to public knowlege...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Why don't we see any plasma defences in cities to prevent those terror strikes then?
BTW, no comments on alien tech-based drugs or testing/training on captured aliens?

EDIT: Also, why don't you make it a setting of how much to share?

Edited by T-1, 08 August 2004 - 12:59 PM.


#27 x0563511

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 01:03 PM

Well, no civilian plasma defenses because that kind of hardware is prohibitively expensive and more than likely restricted to military use. I mean stuff like alien alloys, fuel systems, engines, ect.

#28 centurion

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 01:04 PM

An ICBM essentially drops from low orbit, so don't tell me it's slower than a battleship preparing to land; this is today's tech, used extensively.

With lasers you may be better in one-on-one combat, but the strategic bomber pwns all :devillaugh: .

Governments try to cover up the whole 'alien' issue in the game, but won't be so delicate if their own existence is in question.

Training on live aliens is already mentioned in some other thread, please look it up.
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#29 T-1

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 02:23 PM

An ICBM does not have all of those xenium-powered gizmos that alien battleships do. And an interceptor pwns any bombers. And I'm pretty sure the governments' existence is threatened by the aliens. I'll go find out about training on live aliens.

BTW, still no comments on selling alien tech-based drugs?

#30 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 08 August 2004 - 07:53 PM

After reviewing this thread, I see a "Bad-guy" mod forming...

But seriously, It would be great to take over the planet, as X-Corps. That would rock, and you could get a united front against those damned aliens! :P
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#31 centurion

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 02:22 AM

man I'm getting tired from prodding people to do the right thing ...

An ICBM does not have all of those xenium-powered gizmos that alien battleships do. And an interceptor pwns any bombers. And I'm pretty sure the governments' existence is threatened by the aliens. I'll go find out about training on live aliens.

BTW, still no comments on selling alien tech-based drugs?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alien battleship speed: something like 5600 knots, 3 km/s; orbital speed: 8 km/s.

Interceptors can eat SAMs by the dozen is they decide to get active, all 10 of them; that is, if the gov'ts mind losing a couple of their own craft. And after that, you can try evading the bombers with your personnel.

The governments' existence is not threatened by the aliens, they only need some of the stuff the governments can command. You, however, want to take over the world.

While you're under governmental supervision, selling drugs is not going to be a successful thing.
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#32 futrtrubl

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 03:50 PM

AT what point would you go evil? If you go evil from the start, your funding dries up and you die. I f you go evil later on when you have researched alien tech, the governments of the world now have all your reseasrch, (you don't think they would allow all this if there wasn'ty full disclosure to participating governments?), they fund YOU so don't you think they would have enough money to get their own engineers (where do you get them from do you think?) to mass produce the exact same weaponry you have. Also have you been selling alien tech for cash?
I think at this point they would be able to put alien propulsion on ICBMs and send em your way.
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#33 T-1

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Posted 10 August 2004 - 03:30 AM

After reviewing this thread, I see a "Bad-guy" mod forming...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


With all this opposition, that's probably the only choice.

#34 T-1

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 12:08 PM

Actually if you did a quick strike at all of the worlds larger governments, and mced all the leaders, you could just nuke the rest of the opposition.

#35 Paladin

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 07:17 AM

Well, it usually takes more than the leader to launch nukes, usually 2-10 persons... But I can CERTAINLY sense MARVELOUS mission opportunities :D
That's a VERY good one :idea:
congrats!! ^_^
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#36 tivasyk

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Posted 29 September 2004 - 05:26 AM

hey, guys, i think i've got something to say on the topic.

well, all the politics and having aliens infiltrate earth political system was something that made x-com 3 apocalipse a very different game from the two previous ones... i think while it was some fun, it (x-com 3) was never able to create the same creepy atmosfere i can remember from the first x-com (enemy unknown).

i also hope you've played ufo: aftermath (which is not x-com but a good game nonetheless) -- i loved this one for the same frightening atmosphere! the same with incubation -- a super game despite it's chess-like gameplay, just for the same reason: it is highly atmospheric, it is creepy: your team is all alone out there trying to stop alien plague...

what i want to say is: if i want to play a politics game -- i install old good civilization. x-com was always valued for something else. it would be great if xenocide caught up this where x-com 3 failed to...

just leave economics intact -- this is something that ufo: aftermath lacks.

#37 Paladin

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Posted 29 September 2004 - 07:03 AM

Of course, good, full blown politics are not necessarily feasible in a first release, but we're discussing post V1.0 issues anyway, so politics is a valid possible improvement ^_^
Then again, the creepy atmosphere takes precedence for this game :D
And UFO: Aftermath needed no economics, since it's a post-apocalyptic world where money have no value anymore, guns have... Plus they could not complete to our liking some aspects of the game, such as economics, base-design, getting inside buildings, etc. Because of producer changes, it almost never came out...

So yes, conomics is essential, so that we may contemplate the possible failure of the human race's survival because of some petty money-squabbling :LOL:
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#38 T-1

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Posted 29 September 2004 - 02:45 PM

You could have a "classic" gameplay checkbox in the options screen. Simple. Problem Solved.

#39 Paladin

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Posted 29 September 2004 - 03:08 PM

Well, of course I'd expect such a feature :D
Then again, we'll have hundreds of Mods anyway :LOL:
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#40 mikker

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Posted 30 September 2004 - 07:57 AM

i'm not really keen on turning x-corps into a "bad guy" game. Make it a mod. Afterwards.

I DO like the idea, that aliens infiltrate a nuke storrage, to get tech/bomb city (burning it off the face of the planet...unable to terrorize....founding skydives.......). Nice mission type.

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#41 Paladin

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Posted 30 September 2004 - 01:54 PM

Oh yeah... Them getting their hands on sensitive information... like the location of XCOM bases :D

On the other hand, I don't think they'd need nukes... They know we'd nuke ourselves out... They want a slave race, or our ressources... Not a dead world IMHO. -_-
The XCOM war is more cover than that.
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#42 Snakeman

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Posted 30 September 2004 - 07:20 PM

Of course I love the thought of conquest, I mean, who doesn't? ;) One of the things I didn't understand about the first X-COM was that, regardless of the organization's balance sheet, it was still suseptible to failure simply on the basis of poor performance (equalling pulled funding).

I think that in such an instance, of introducing conquest, one of X-COM's goals should be self sufficiency. Even if that means that late game it suddenly finds its self basically having to deal with Earth based black market goods (it starts to see alien stuff dry up a bit) for anything to fight with.

So I think that if taking out that one condition of losing because of no funding, it can help make it (or mod if it'll be a mod) more attractive as a game style. Besides, maybe we can see many more base defense missions crop up from the rest of the world. Going the conquest route your bound to piss a few nations off, but I just think its attractive to have my team go toe to toe with other militaries :)

Regardless of the implimentation method, mod or otherwise, I like it.

#43 Paladin

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 07:39 AM

Yeah, nice ideas...

Then again, if the funding nations declare the failure of XCOM, they might reveal it to the general public (and the Aliens), including the Base's locations... which would kinda make the whole organisation fall down within a few days under military pressure if we obstinate... Interesting Scenario :D
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then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

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There is another which states that this has already happened.
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#44 mikker

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 09:43 AM

Oh yeah... Them getting their hands on sensitive information... like the location of XCOM bases :D

On the other hand, I don't think they'd need nukes... They know we'd nuke ourselves out... They want a slave race, or our ressources... Not a dead world IMHO. -_-
The XCOM war is more cover than that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


But knowing that aliens have taken control of a nuke does make people panic, don't they? :hammer:

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#45 Paladin

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 11:36 AM

Well, yeah, but don't you think they have FAR WORSE on the category of Wepons of Total Destruction??
They could blow up the entire planet if they wnated to...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

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then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

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There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#46 T-1

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 03:24 PM

If this gets implemented, there should be a choice after Cydonia whether you want to continue to play or not (or if TFTD and any other sequel gets implemented, then also a fast forward button 40-50 years button (you may be better equipped to fight the aliens if you control the world at the start of TFTD)). This also could be an excellent use for Alex's(I think) MIB idea.

#47 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 01 October 2004 - 05:46 PM

noboddy can claim the mib idea cause we all thought it up at the same time

#48 T-1

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Posted 02 October 2004 - 09:42 AM

I was somehow under the impression that it was your idea. Oh well doesn't matter.

#49 Durandal

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 06:30 AM

Actually, something I wondered about: if XCom is low on funds, why don't they just rob a bank? It sounds cheesey, but imagine powered armor against a bank guard with a pistol. Or a locked bank vault for that matter, those suits look like they could punch through steel I think. Or your troops could pick up the vault and haul it onto your Skyranger. Obviously the government you robbed would know it was XCom, but if you are desperate for 10mil$ fast...

Incidentally, whatever happens to all the weapons and alien tech that you sell? Do the funding gov'ts stockpile it, or are you selling it just to them? I'm sure some people would pay millions for a Blaster Launcher with ammo.

It's good to be bad!

#50 sir_schwick

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Posted 11 February 2005 - 11:07 AM

Instead of robbing a bank to get money to buy supplies, why not just directly take the supplies? You could raid military bases(now power-armour would be worth something), factories, etc. Raiding was one of my favorite activities in Apocalypse.