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#51 Astyanax

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Posted 27 February 2005 - 01:14 PM

Naw, it's actually really easy. On the other hand, making it funny seems to be a great deal more difficult. :P

Edited by Astyanax, 27 February 2005 - 01:14 PM.

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#52 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 27 February 2005 - 05:20 PM

Well, although I can't complain about dipstick's assessment ;), I wonder how much of this issue is actually humor having trouble getting past the language barrier?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But calling my humour of an inferior level, I really hadn't heard something like that before.

Edited by Azrael, 27 February 2005 - 05:31 PM.


#53 dipstick

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 02:28 PM

Sorry, I wasn't criticising you - it came out a little wrong.

I think that you, Az, generally go straight for the punchline, whereas Asty tends to beat about the bush, and as I can appreciate both types of humour, I am the lucky one.

That is what I meant.. :blush1:
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#54 Astyanax

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 02:44 PM

No insult intended; I think dipstick is referring to the differences between blunt and subtle humor and our marked preference for one over the other. :)

Edited by Astyanax, 28 February 2005 - 02:45 PM.

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#55 tzuchan

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 06:48 PM

Err... So who's blunt and who's subtle?
I think Azzy is subtle 'cause he liked my Artopod "Microwavable Popcorn" Fluff...
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#56 Astyanax

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 07:28 PM

It's a matter of opinion, naturally. :P

Well, to complicate matters further, I'd say there's also a difference between what I think is funny and what I think is is believable (suspension of disbelief).

I think your Artopod fluff is funny, but I can't believe it'd actually happen in the Xenocide world.

Maybe I'm too much of a realist and I'm over-complicating things.

...

Eh, I'm tired. :zzzzz:

Edited by Astyanax, 28 February 2005 - 07:29 PM.

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#57 Exo2000

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Posted 22 March 2005 - 05:39 AM

I have to say, fluff needs a proper balance of stupidity, funny and seriousness.

But still, no matter what you tell the scientists, if you leave a button with "DO NOT PRESS" on it, some soldier is gonna get drunk and dared to press it. C'est la vie. (No, I'm not french :P)

Things like instructors telling recruits why not to stand too close to something can be both funny and serious, a hint for the game, if you will - like the one I added for the Satchel Charge, the instructor saying how, if you stand too close when it blows up, there won't be enough of you left for a bodybag, let alone a shoebox. (points out that the explosive is INCREDIBLY lethal (especially to anything close) and will make a mess out of anything too close to it.) (and by "let alone a shoebox", I mean, there won't be enough left for a shoebox, so don't even think about bodybags)

The shoebox was inspired by an old Mechcommander 1 quote from when you kill an enemy mech;

"Well we sent him home in a shoebox"
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#58 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 22 March 2005 - 07:05 AM

there won't be enough of you left for a bodybag, let alone a shoebox

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you sure it's not the OTHER way around?

#59 Exo2000

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Posted 22 March 2005 - 09:47 AM

Yes. I'm sure.
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#60 tzuchan

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Posted 22 March 2005 - 07:02 PM

You do realize that body bags are designed to carry a dead person's body, hence the name body bag? That means that a shoebox is way smaller than a body bag...
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#61 Astyanax

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Posted 22 March 2005 - 07:10 PM

It's funny, I can see both ways in this one... :huh?:
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#62 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 22 March 2005 - 07:10 PM

Yes. I'm sure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



You do realize that body bags are designed to carry a dead person's body, hence the name body bag? That means that a shoebox is way smaller than a body bag...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


So, if there is not enough for a shoebox... then a bodybag would be emptier...

#63 kafros

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Posted 23 March 2005 - 08:36 AM

...there won't be enough of you left for a bodybag, let alone a shoebox

Az: So, if there is not enough for a shoebox... then a bodybag would be emptier...

Indeed, I was ready to post it, and then I saw your post :)

Maybe you wanted to say something like:

"<When we are finished with you blah blah blah...>, a shoebox won't be {big} enough for you, let alone a bodybag"

Edited by kafros, 21 August 2005 - 09:15 AM.


#64 Exo2000

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Posted 23 March 2005 - 09:04 AM

The big is implied, due to the fact what's left could fit in a shoebox.

I'm confusing myself. <_<
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#65 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 23 March 2005 - 09:10 AM

...there won't be enough of you left for a bodybag, let alone a shoebox

Az: So, if there is not enough for a shoebox... then a bodybag would be emptier...

Indeed, I was ready to post it, and then I saw your post :)

Maybe you wanted to say something like:

"<When we are finished with you blah blah blah...>, a bodybag won't be {big} enough for you, let alone a shoebox"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Actually, that'w wrong too, cause if a bodybag is not big enough for you, then it means you are bigger than the bodybag, not smaller.

#66 Kikanaide

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Posted 23 March 2005 - 09:35 AM

The phrase should be reversed..."there won't be enough left of you to fill a shoebox, let alone a bodybag." The "let alone" phrase is followed by something that would normally be possible and in all cases is less restrictive than the situation before it.

An example is: "My legs hurt so bad I couldn't even stand, let alone walk."

Compare to : "My legs hurt so bad I couldn't even run, let alone stand." And it should become clear which is correct.
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#67 Kikanaide

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Posted 23 March 2005 - 09:47 AM

While we're on a general analysis, I'll repeat (and clarify, with brevity) a couple comments a made near the beginning of the thread...

1) People whose salaries you pay (scientists, engineers, soldiers[even rookies]) probably shouldn't die in fluff texts, and particularly not in EVERY fluff text like we had going for a while (I think that's died down, for which I am extremely grateful). If for no other reason than because it doesn't happen in the game. You know, ever (with the exception of soldiers). It is difficult to fit a soldier's death into the chronological order of things, too, except perhaps with plasma weapons (something like "this is what shot poor Jimmy")...

2) Humor of both types is great, staight-up jokes or backhanded jabs. Let's see if we can mix it up, though, just so it doesn't get monotonous.

3) And I agree with Exo, a chunk of fluff should be serious/instructive.
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#68 kafros

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Posted 23 March 2005 - 10:00 AM

Issue #1
======
I don't remember how it all started, and I'm too bored to look through previous posts, but I can think of 2 possibilities:
1) You were cut in pieces. That means you are as big as you were before. Thus, if you can't fit in a bodybag, it is JUST SURE ("let alone") that you won't fit in a shoebox.
2) You were "vaporized" by a nade. That means you are... "much smaller" than you were before. Thus, if the shoebox is too big for you, it is JUST SURE ("let alone") that the bodybag will be JUST TOO BIG for you.

I think we are done with it, pick and choose :Coffee:


Issue #2
======

People whose salaries you pay (scientists, engineers, soldiers[even rookies]) probably shouldn't die in fluff texts <blah blah>

Indeed, I just have to agree, it would confuse the player, "Where do these deaths come from?! I still have all my scientists!".

It's been discussed many times in the past: A fluff must keep the "mood" of the report. It may make something clear, it may provide some information, or it may help you understand an issue with a few words ([Demolition explosives] : "Press here, and the whole room goes *BOOM*")

But, adding staight-up jokes or backhanded jabs as Kikanaide mentioned is greatly wanted.

Just get the in-game feeling and provide rational fluffs, and All-iz-OK :master:

#69 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 23 March 2005 - 10:06 AM

The phrase should be reversed..."there won't be enough left of you to fill a shoebox, let alone a bodybag."  The "let alone" phrase is followed by something that would normally be possible and in all cases is less restrictive than the situation before it.

An example is: "My legs hurt so bad I couldn't even stand, let alone walk."

Compare to : "My legs hurt so bad I couldn't even run, let alone stand." And it should become clear which is correct.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Finally, thank you :)

#70 kafros

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Posted 23 March 2005 - 10:14 AM

Oh, and one more thing, kids. If you stand to close to a primed one of these babies, there won't be enough of you left for a shoebox, let alone a bodybag." - Anonymous,  X-Corps Retired Explosives Instructor.


2) You were "vaporized" by a nade. That means you are... "much smaller" than you were before. Thus, if the shoebox is too big for you, it is JUST SURE ("let alone") that the bodybag will be JUST TOO BIG for you.


Some1 should make "let alone" clear, ty kikanaide =b

Wasn't I of any help? :Cry:

#71 Exo2000

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 10:51 AM

Nicely done Kikanaide.

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#72 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 10:54 AM

The phrase should be reversed..."there won't be enough left of you to fill a shoebox, let alone a bodybag."  The "let alone" phrase is followed by something that would normally be possible and in all cases is less restrictive than the situation before it.

An example is: "My legs hurt so bad I couldn't even stand, let alone walk."

Compare to : "My legs hurt so bad I couldn't even run, let alone stand." And it should become clear which is correct.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


How exactly does this explain you were right?

#73 Kikanaide

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 11:56 AM

Actually, Exo...

Dictionary.com
let alone

    Not to mention; much less: “Their ancestors had been dirt poor and never saw royalty, let alone hung around with them” (Garrison Keillor).


So I think it should be either:

There won't be enough left of you to fill a shoebox, let alone a bodybag.

-which states that although normally a person would fill a bodybag (less restrictive) that there won't be enough for a shoebox...since you don't fill a shoebox, you fill a bodybag "much less"

Or something like

There won't be enough left of you to fill a bodybag. Actually, you'll be lucky to fill a shoebox.

-which states the least restrictive first, and then is adds additionally clarification (other connectors would be "in fact" or derivatives...)

This particular phrasing can be complicated by the fact that it is sometimes abused in common speech - since you actually have to think ahead when talking, a lot of people screw it up. So it's quite possible that the only way you've heard it is backwards.

Edited by Kikanaide, 24 March 2005 - 12:00 PM.

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#74 kafros

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 01:47 PM

Oh, and one more thing, kids. If you stand to close to a primed one of these babies, there won't be enough of you left for a shoebox, let alone a bodybag." - Anonymous,  X-Corps Retired Explosives Instructor.


2) You were "vaporized" by a nade. That means you are... "much smaller" than you were before. Thus, if the shoebox is too big for you, it is JUST SURE ("let alone") that the bodybag will be JUST TOO BIG for you.


Edited by kafros, 24 March 2005 - 01:48 PM.


#75 Moriarty

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 04:37 PM

1) I think we all agree that the phrase "let alone" is used like this: "statement 1" let alone "statement 2"

2) we also agree that "statement 2" is something going a step further than "statement 1"

3) somehow, the phrase appears NOT to fit, or at least to be truly awkward

4) alternate things have been suggested. why not use them?

I would go for "blah blah blah what's left of you won't fill a body bag. Even a shoebox would look empty."

(maybe some of the trouble was because of the negation in the sentence?)

anyway, back to topic, since this thread is about fluff texts, I recently added one to the grenade text. what do you think of it:

"Grenade ["nade"] noun Great for clearing areas. Prime, throw, boom. Everyone should have one."
-Soldier's Dictionary


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#76 Kikanaide

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 06:23 PM

1) I think we all agree that the phrase "let alone" is used like this: "statement 1" let alone "statement 2"
2) we also agree that "statement 2" is something going a step further than "statement 1"

It appears to me that point 2 is what's actually contested here. You are right that a good chunk of the problem is the negation. With the negation ("won't be able/won't be enough left"), the phrase could be replaced with something like "You don't even have a prayer to..." or "Forget about trying to..." This seems to be in line with various internet definitions, including "much less," "not to mention," etc. Statement 1 should be something you barely fail at, statement 2 should be something you abysmally fail at.

4) alternate things have been suggested. why not use them?

I am also of the opinion that this would be simpler.

anyway, back to topic, since this thread is about fluff texts, I recently added one to the grenade text. what do you think of it:
"Grenade ["nade"] noun Great for clearing areas. Prime, throw, boom. Everyone should have one."
-Soldier's Dictionary

It makes me laugh...well, chuckle at least. Sounds fine to me.

Following moriarty's example, what do you folks think of my heavy plasma fluff:

"Lou, the physics lead, has been holed up in his corner muttering to himself ever since our soldiers first reported that the Aliens were using plasma weapons. Something about plasma weapons being theoretically impossible. I guess no one ever told the Aliens that. We just bring him food, ignore the muttering, and concentrate on doing our job. Now that we've built the thing, I wonder why he gets paid more than I do..."

Frank Smith - Lead Engineer

Those who read it in the other thread might notice that I just fixed a passive voice problem...I'll get around to posting that in the hpr thread later.
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#77 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 06:28 PM

This thread is not for discussing particular fluff texts, please post them in their respective text threads.

#78 Astyanax

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 06:33 PM

4) alternate things have been suggested. why not use them?

I am also of the opinion that this would be simpler.

LOL
I agree with you, Kikanaide, but in the light of "xx, much less yy" debate, I find your statement highly ironic. :D

anyway, back to topic, since this thread is about fluff texts, I recently added one to the grenade text. what do you think of it:
"Grenade ["nade"] noun Great for clearing areas. Prime, throw, boom. Everyone should have one."
-Soldier's Dictionary

Simple, has that "chuckle" factor, and gets the point across. =b

Following moriarty's example, what do you folks think of my heavy plasma fluff:

"Lou, the physics lead, has been holed up in his corner muttering to himself ever since our soldiers first reported that the Aliens were using plasma weapons. Something about plasma weapons being theoretically impossible. I guess no one ever told the Aliens that. We just bring him food, ignore the muttering, and concentrate on doing our job. Now that we've built the thing, I wonder why he gets paid more than I do..."

Frank Smith - Lead Engineer

I like it. Hm... (impending Astyanax™ comment), maybe: "...our soldiers first reported that the Aliens were using plasma weapons... something about how plasma weapons were theoretically impossible."
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#79 Moriarty

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 06:41 PM

@azrael: as usual, you are right. I am sorry for taking this thread from one off-topic area to another one...

I'll have to amend the intention of my post and say: I've come up with a fluff text for the grenade (see above), and perhaps this would be a nice way for some more fluff texts, kind of like a running joke. I believe we have one or two of those already (there was something about "things tommy cannot do in xcorps" ?), and this one has some potential, I believe.

the basic structure would be

<item discussed in the text> (<item's nickname>) noun <short description, very dumb-soldier-like, preferably funny>
Soldier's dictionary



edit: don't you just hate other people posting while you are still writing the reply, astyanax? :angry: :wink1: LOL

Edited by Moriarty, 24 March 2005 - 06:43 PM.

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#80 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 07:20 PM

@azrael: as usual, you are right. I am sorry for taking this thread from one off-topic area to another one...

I'll have to amend the intention of my post and say: I've come up with a fluff text for the grenade (see above), and perhaps this would be a nice way for some more fluff texts, kind of like a running joke. I believe we have one or two of those already (there was something about "things tommy cannot do in xcorps" ?), and this one has some potential, I believe.

the basic structure would be

<item discussed in the text> (<item's nickname>) noun <short description, very dumb-soldier-like, preferably funny>
Soldier's dictionary

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with that, I tried to do such a thing, but some people thought funny texts were not appropiate. These are (for the record, at least) some of the fluffs I thought would be funny. I thought also it would be cool to have sort of a running joke.

Rule 33. Plasma pistols may not be used to heat my morning coffee.

Rule 45. I may not accuse PsiDiv members of 'messing with my head'.
Rule 45a. Even if they're actually doing it.

Rule 2. The purpose of rookies is *not* "To open doors carrying two primed grenades".

Rule 13. I may not hang a 'Just Married' sign and a bunch of tin cans from the back of the hovertank.

Rule 26. Civilians are not "Spawns waiting to happen."

Rule 27. The Hyper-Wave Decoder does not receive cable TV.

Rule 48. When in battle, I may not panic, and take the Skyranger home.

Rule 50. I will never again teach a Morlock to play poker.
Rule 50a. If I do teach a Morlock to play poker, I will not play with him.
Rule 50b. If I do play with him, I will not bet the Skyranger.
Rule 50c. If I do bet the Skyranger, I will not do so in the hopes that I will draw into an inside straight.

Rule 52. I may not eat flares, regardless of how 'cool' I look in the dark.

Rule 85. Nailing a Plasma Clip to my rifle will not make it "better"

They are rules like from a training manual, I'd like to call "100 things Tommy can't do in X-Corps", I still think they would fit nicely along all texts, I have nearly for all of them :banana: . My idea wasn't too popular, though :(

Edited by Azrael, 24 March 2005 - 10:48 PM.


#81 kafros

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 02:03 AM

Those fluffs are nice, but it's a bit "unfair" and "monotonous" to have only them in the texts.

Hmmmm, an idea :hmmm: :
We could implement an option in the "gameplay" section: Commander Tommy's fluffs
If you click it, a new menu appears, which explains the whole (or some part) of the "story". So, in X-net, you only see Tommy's fluffs! ^_^

You can also change that in-game, so that you can see the normal fluffs :)

#82 tzuchan

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 02:54 AM

imho, the reason why Azzy's idea of using "100 things Cmd. Tommy can't do" didn't take off was because while funny as a collective( and under that title, 'cos you then get a mental image of a trooper's worst nightmare, a screwed up commanding officer) but taken one rule at a time, it tends to feel abit dumb as most of them are matter-of-fact rules, things that most people don't think about as necessary to harp about.

However, Mory's general outline would work with most of the basic human tech stuff because after the long technical doc, one can imagine your average every day soldier saying "Yeah, yeah, whatever, All I need to know is to 'prime and throw', and things goes kablooey, right?"
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#83 kafros

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 03:26 AM

I see your point tzu. We could then do something else...
Implement the "Commander Tommy's fluffs" idea, and then do a "trick". Each time you research something new, you see the corresponding rule as a fluff. AND, THAT fluf is added in a list! (txt, doc, xls, whateva). Thus, the player can open that file and see his "progress", and enjoy all the rules together ^_^


But, I also think that we should have seperate fluffs as default (I mean, non-"rule" ones, the fluffs everybody writes :))

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 10:52 AM

I see your point tzu. We could then do something else...
Implement the "Commander Tommy's fluffs" idea, and then do a "trick". Each time you research something new, you see the corresponding rule as a fluff. AND, THAT fluf is added in a list! (txt, doc, xls, whateva). Thus, the player can open that file and see his "progress", and enjoy all the rules together ^_^


But, I also think that we should have seperate fluffs as default (I mean, non-"rule" ones, the fluffs everybody writes :))

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm, I have just noticed something... the texts in the game are on xml, which could allow "random" fluff texts to show. It's been a while since I've taken a look at the xnet xml, but it would be interesting, I think there is even a discussion about it somewhere. Oh well, that's to be taken care of later I suppose, too much to do already.

#85 kafros

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 12:15 PM

Grrr... I forgot to mention the main xenocide "text" format.. xml... :Brickwall:

Indeed, that's what we are working on. All docs will be copied to xmls, right? :)

http://www.w3schools...xml/default.asp

#86 mikker

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 01:14 PM

- <CD>
<TITLE>Midt om natten</TITLE>
<ARTIST>Kim Larsen</ARTIST>
<COUNTRY>EU</COUNTRY>
<COMPANY>Medley</COMPANY>
<PRICE>7.80</PRICE>
<YEAR>1983</YEAR>
</CD>

what? EU? EU?! That's DK you jerkies! Grrrrr.....

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#87 Exo2000

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Posted 27 March 2005 - 01:40 AM

Beef jerkies?
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#88 mikker

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Posted 27 March 2005 - 03:03 AM

no, just jerkies. Like, "one jerk" "more jerkies", right?

:order:

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#89 tzuchan

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Posted 27 March 2005 - 06:47 PM

I think you mean jerks... but this is going way offtopic
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#90 Astyanax

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 01:27 PM

All right, the first back-to-the-topic post! :P

I really like Moriarty's scheme, and I think it'll help us fill in some of the gaps we have in terms of fluffs.

<item discussed in the text> (<item's nickname>) noun <short description, very dumb-soldier-like, preferably funny>
Soldier's dictionary

...though I'd personally change "Soldier's Dictionary" to something more interesting, maybe lowbrow like "Kapten Tommi's Wurdbook uv Wizdum for Recroots" or something really overstated, like something using "Lexicon" or "Codex". :D
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#91 Moriarty

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 12:06 PM

"Soldier's 101"
"Fighting for Dummies"
...
...
"Codex Militorum" :D
I doubt, therefore I might be.

Posted Image,the sneaky little bastard.

#92 Astyanax

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 02:42 PM

I kinda like "Fighting for Dummies"... :P

...though the "De Facto Codex Militorum, Inter Alia" has a nice ring, doesn't it? :D

Edited by Astyanax, 03 April 2005 - 03:08 PM.

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#93 Astyanax

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 12:00 PM

Hm, another thing we need to decide is whether the fluffs are explicitly set in the in-game universe or a parallel universe.

If they are set in the in-game universe, everything must be factual to the player, and everything must be generalized to avoid inconsistencies between fluffs and what's happening in the game. That means no references to soldier names (scientists would still be ok) because the soldiers named in the fluffs might not be on the player's roster. The organization scheme would have to be very general, since the player might decide to play with only 1 scientist and 1 engineer (unlikely, I know, but a possibility). This approach has the advantage of in-game "realism" and can potentially immerse the player more effectively.

The other "parallel universe" approach is easier to manage; a parallel universe can be much more detailed and dramatic, since names and organizational schemes can be more fully fleshed out, and can give the illusion that the Xenocide Corps is a living entity of its own, filled with stories of "real" people and "real" stories. On the other hand, some players could be jarred out of their Xenocide experience: "Who's this Captain Georgia McWerth? This never happened! I don't have a soldier nicknamed 'Grizzly'...etc."

This is a fairly important decision, imho; I'm curious to hear what people think on the issue...

Edited by Astyanax, 05 April 2005 - 12:01 PM.

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#94 mikker

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Posted 05 April 2005 - 02:21 PM

I'd say a parralell universe. Everything arround that will annoy the programmers (and that is *NOT* something we want, is it :P). Besides, 98% of all people who read the text will think of it as a joke, and treat it as such. Including the names that are in it.

The real universe might also be an option, but then we have to take into account all the rookies that die (as I've stated before), and maybe also the fact that the prefix and after-fix (If you can't spell it, avoid it!) that may arrise.

"I love my guns" - rookie [!good!] Thomas Jeffy [PSI dev] {shooter} |Craft2| explaining traces of his DNA in the long riffle barrels

(that fluff won't work but i guess you get the idea :P)

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

the truth about scientology