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#1 crazy_higer

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 12:28 PM

I dunno if this topic actually belongs in this section, but I didn't find any other appropriate place for it, so...

At any rate, IMHO, the workshops should be able to produce all the standard beginning-of-the-game items, at less cost than purchasing, but, of course, at more effort. And I'm not talking only about the equipment - why not the interceptors as well? I mean, if a workshop is perfectly capable of manufacturing a full-scale UFO-based fighters, why not a good old jet too?

Which (just now had a jolt of thought) could lead to something completely new - standard equipment & craft upgrades research opportunities, which can ONLY be obtained by massive manucafturing of items. It could be something like "Hmm, what if I move this spring a little over here... Eureka!". Could lead to more powerful weapons, faster jets, etc.

Dunno how much will it affect playability (if at all), but it's a nice idea, I think.

#2 Blehm 98

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 04:19 PM

I say no, it would make you independant of the funding countries from the start
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#3 UnFleshed One

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 03:02 AM

Well, what if you can't sell your standart homemade staff 'cause it is not standart :). Or it will be nonprofitable (you can't compete with huge factories). I like that additional out-of-the-tree research idea...
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#4 bpuk

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Posted 11 August 2005 - 08:46 AM

At any rate, IMHO, the workshops should be able to produce all the standard beginning-of-the-game items, at less cost than purchasing, but, of course, at more effort. And I'm not talking only about the equipment - why not the interceptors as well? I mean, if a workshop is perfectly capable of manufacturing a full-scale UFO-based fighters, why not a good old jet too?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


From a physical (and realism) point of view - sort of.

Any reasonably equiped shop (even a home one) is able to produce *almost* any of the purchasable items without too much difficulty. For the electroflare youd need a chem lab, rather than a workshop. Likewise for the explosives, but once prepared the shop side of things is pretty simple.

The point to make here is that there is absolutley no way that this would be cheaper (even leaving the time aside) than purchasing the items from a mass production manufacturer.

(and yes, I do mean that you could produce a modern jet in a relativley simple shop - but I certaintly wouldn't want to be anywhere near the thing - oh, and a few parts might need to be ordered, but I'm assuming x-corps have unlimited equipment :))

Which (just now had a jolt of thought) could lead to something completely new - standard equipment & craft upgrades research opportunities, which can ONLY be obtained by massive manucafturing of items. It could be something like "Hmm, what if I move this spring a little over here... Eureka!". Could lead to more powerful weapons, faster jets, etc.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I've always wanted standard equipment and craft upgrades - or at least mk2+ versions of things (for example the interceptor mk2, built with alien alloys so faster)

But mass production wouldn't lead to this - no *production* engineer producing weapons would deviate from the blueprints - yes, accidents may happen - but these are very unlikely to be beneficial.

Scientists on the other hand :)
No reason why such upgrades couldn't be integrated into the normal research tree

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#5 sir_schwick

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Posted 12 August 2005 - 02:22 PM

Foreword:

It seems that if X-COM engineers, which come from backgrounds private and government, can reproduce Alien Alloys and crafts then the companies they left would also be capable of this. My suggestion is that you should rely more on your suppliers even when you research advanced equipment. Also, your engineers should handle functions that cannot be handled in a factory. These include modifying weapons, ammunition, craft, structures, and gear. Here are more details:

XCORPS Companies:

Besides the secret bases and toys, XCORPS owns many companies whose purpose is to hide XCORPS existence and provide logistical support for its anti-alien operations. These are the companies that governments own their XCORPS dues, where the supplies are bought and sold, and where small-scale manufacturing occurs.

XCORPS Manufacturing Plants:

These plants appear to be just like any other industrial/commerical facility and appear in a number of countries. They are usually inherited from other secret government projects and thus have a long reputation with the locals. The outsides are covertly protected by a small army of mercenaries who are used to 'don't ask, don't tell' jobs. Inside they are protected by your own XCORPS troopers and the MIBs.

With these facilities, which require some Engineers, you can produce limited amounts of weapons/HWPs/gear at very high cost and time quotient. It is also where you can modify and/or manufacture new craft, although at very high cost and time. The only real advantage of XCOPRS factories is that they require no retooling time and can use all your research immediately.

Selling Technology Overview:

You can also sell your technology to a variety of companies to manufacture at reduced cost. This has the side-effect of greater non-XCORPS proliferation and possible international ramifications, which will be explained below. Whenever you do decide to sell your technology, you get a choice of what kind of producer to which to sell. Then you can choose from a short list of specific vendors. Because of the financial and technology advantage, which country the company is based in will have an effect on that countries disposition to you. The ramifications of each choice will be shown when you are making it. Also, to jump start production the companies will require some engineers and scientists who 'theorhetically' worked on the project along with some material. They do pay you, quite handsomely, plus you don't pay the Engineers/Scientists while they are gone.

Once the company signs the deal there is a retooling time. At this point the same quality gear you produce in your factories will come out at less cost. After an additional Devlopment time which is three times the RT time, an improved and less costly version of the gear comes out. Then after a Refinement period, which is three times the Devlopment time, a much cheaper and better version of the gear comes out from manufacture. Of course you get your guys back after the RT time.

The kinds of companies are 'Specialist', 'Government Only', 'General Manufacturer'

Specialist Manufacturer:

Specialist Manufacturers deal with very specific, very sophisticated systems that are seldom used outside secret ops organizations. Most of these companies are not known outside National Defense establishments and almost never sell outside specific persons. They make very high quality, although expensive gear, and have longer retooling times than the other manufacturer. Average retooling times are between six and ten weeks.

Government Only:

The GOMs only sell to National Defense establishments and those tend to only be the most modern of militaries. Their clients include the US Armed Forces, Germany, China, India, and the other major powers. Their equipment requires economical quality which is less than that of the specialist manufacturer but still first tier. Average retoolign times are between four and eight weeks.

General Use Manufacturers:

These guys sell to the global arms market and those who have a limited budget. Their equipment does not have the sophistication or quality of GOMs or Specialist manufacturers, but is much more expendable and will perform when needed. They specialize in quantity and price. Average retooling times are between two and six weeks.


XCORPS Operations Engineers:

Many of your Engineers and Scientists do not work in an XCORPS factory but rather on the front lines. Their job is to modify equipment for soldiers, fix aircraft, modify craft and HWPs, and in general make efficiency and other upgrades. If soldiers can have personal loadouts, then it is possible to add or upgrade weapons for efficiency in relation to that soldiers preferences. HWPs can have armour or movement upgrades as well as alternative weapons and abilities added. Rooms can have defenses installed or equipment upgraded. Craft can be changed or modified with upgrades such as UFO hooks, gliders, and alternative power sources.

#6 Karfir

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 01:35 AM

I feel that that would take a lot of simplicity away, sir_schwick. It makes more sense to me that it would be more expensive to make a jet in the x-corps workshops than to buy one, simply because mass production drastically reduces production costs. Also, the resources that you have are stolen from aliens, and probably aren't the aluminum and steel you would need to make human technology.

#7 sir_schwick

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Posted 30 December 2005 - 09:32 AM

I made that post a long time ago and have changed my views on certain things. Certainly the initial system I proposed involved way to much MM. This time around I would suggest that minor upgrades to infantry equipment not require engineers and be easier to assign per-soldier and on the fly. However I am still behind the idea that manufacturing would occur either at XCORPS manufacturing sites or the technology be sold to manufacturers to sell world-wide.

Obviously almost no manufacturer would make a product that requires Elerium to be used. However devices such as the Medkits, Laser weapons, and more advanced HWPs are well within terran resources. Also Alien Alloys and better aircraft designs based on alien alloys and ship design would be interesting to an arms manufacturer. This also leads to a side-ways idea taht would improve teh MM part of the game:

Inventory Quotas - For any items that can be 'mass-produced' it would be possible to set quotas on how much of each item should be in a selected base. Whenever those levels fell below the quota they would be automatically requesitioned from the manufacturer. Maybe some additional notification screens could be added to streamline the process.