59 replies to this topic

[Moonsorrow]

what freaked me out about xcom apocolypse was that all the aliens equipment was organic, including the ufo, shooting living guns and all...why not try the oposite for xenocide? here comes somekind of strange alien atacking you, they cut of his arm, replaced half his face and build explosives into him to make sure you would go down if you took him down, i guess what im trying to say is it would be cool to see the exact oposite of an organic alien squad comming at you blasting away.

[Vaaish]

we are the borg....

[Cpl. Facehugger]

I don't know, we already have floaters, and they are cyborgs. We have sectopods, and cyberdiscs too. Im not sure that combat robots would be good for the aliens. Maby we could have like a "floater mark II" ? That way, we can make a more cybernetic alien like you want, and make floaters more than pistol fodder.

[mikker]

I don't know, we already have floaters, and they are cyborgs. We have sectopods, and cyberdiscs too. Im not sure that combat robots would be good for the aliens. Maby we could have like a "floater mark II" ? That way, we can make a more cybernetic alien like you want, and make floaters more than pistol fodder.

I like the flooter opgrade alot. It would come after Ethereal? Followed by Cyborg Reapers? :happybanana:

[Cpl. Facehugger]

I was thinking that floater II's would come after snakemen and before mutons. I mean, you can only improve a floater so much before players start asking why the other aliens can't be augmented.
They would be better than snakemen, but nowhere as powerful as mutons, which is as it should be.

[mikker]

the March II Flooters should be incribly fast, and float like March I...

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Why would they be faster? Maby they should have a few more tus, but I was thinking they would get more health and armor. And you are right, they would float like floaters, otherwise they wouldn't be floater mark II's!

[Moonsorrow]

Vaaish, how booring is that? the instant someone trys to mix a little metal with a little flesh you think borg.... do you altso think "take me to your leader" when you hear alien?

[fux0r666]

I'm going for a look that doesn't necessarily blend metal and flesh but where metal and flesh are indistinguishable from one another.. We'll see if I can pull it off without looking like I've ripped off a certain swiss surrealist...

[fux0r666]

somewhere in between flesh and metal.

[fux0r666]

I had no idea about that, I just saw in the style guide that the alien tech is supposed to be sleek and 'almost organic looking' and decided to take it a step further.

[warhamster]

But the aliens already do have implants here and there. And since most aliens are genetically manipulated already, ther is minimal need for cybernetic implants, right?

Anyway one of the entries gave me a mean idea. How about an alien that was created specifically to find your men, approach and explode. There was like that in apocaplypse, remember? It might be a useful side alien to the mutons.

Really, there's a floating sack flesh and it's about to spit on me. I'm shaking the joints of my power suit now.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Those lil celatids were fun to use though. I control one, and he can take out mutons pretty well actually, iirc.

But I would hate a alien like the popper, those things were annoyance incarnate.

[warhamster]

Well, I don't think the alien planned to be too friendly either when they sent out that chrysallid to do some kinky sh!t to your behind.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Chryssalids were scary, poppers were just annoying.

[warhamster]

Well, we could see a chrysallid coming in from a mile off. That didn't stop them from being effective either.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Yeah, but chryssalids have a fair amount of health. Poppers have so little health that they die when hit with a rock.

Besides, chryssalids were effective because they could turn your men against you, poppers would not be effective because they can only explode. Granted that is a big explosion, but, there is nothing to worry about after you kill the popper. If the chryssalid molested anyone before you waxed him, then you have to worry. (why wouldn't the mutons toss a 'nade instead?) Anyway, I'm just biased against poppers, probably the pain of capturing one of the lil blue b^stards alive.

[warhamster]

Well, we could make our version a thougher version. And like the cyberdisk, you can never capture one alive. You have to get info on it through alien medics.

I guess I'm just too much a fan of goblin sappers.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

I suppose that would work.
Actually, I did get a cyberdisk once, It took like 5 guys with stunrods and a couple of guys with small launchers, and even then, I had to shoot it a bit with a pistol, but I did get the lil bugger after 6 turns of constant attempt.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Well, I always play realtime, because to me apoc doesn't quite seem right in tb.

Besides, a suicide alien seems a bit too much like a suicide terrorist bomber to me...

[fux0r666]

There's a line between living weapons and suicidal fanatics.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

How about suicidal living weapons?

At any rate, I must say that poppers were necesary in apoc, because, in the beginning of the game they were really the only guys who could hurt you. Until the anthropods get disruptor weapons that is.

Anyway, to get back on topic, I don't think there should be any new robotic aliens.

[Vaaish]

Vaaish, how booring is that? the instant someone trys to mix a little metal with a little flesh you think borg.... do you altso think "take me to your leader" when you hear alien?

Well the borg ARE the quintisential melding of random metal extrusions with humanoid races. I guess we could also remember Quake 2, or possibly even some arcane aspect of Star Wars and AVP...

Quite frankly I don't think hackjob combinations of clunky robotics and aliens very frightening. It seems to fall more in the pity category since the recipiants the modifications tend not to really fall in the category of true biological beings or automatons.

Much more frightening is the enemy who sends heartless, cold, metal creations that have no regard for either their own losses or the lives of noncoms. And then what brings about hte fear is the cold calculation and total inhumanity of the machines.

[fux0r666]

Mr. Vaaish, you just decribed my concept for the muton perfectly. I'm glad to see at least someone is on my page, even if the exact shape this should take is up in the air.

[j'ordos]

The most terrifying enemy is the one you can't see coming...

This suggests a logical course of action: the invisible or cloaked alien should be incorporated

Edited by j'ordos, 11 September 2003 - 04:10 AM.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

How excactly would you balance an invisible alien?

Hmm, It would have to have melee only, hmm, it still shows up on the screen, but there is no 1box like normal when an alien is sighted, it would be clear, to make it harder to see for the player... Hmm... Might be a good idea .

Also, Imo cyborg races are pathetic, Look at the floaters. Or even the borg, they aren't that tough. Cyborgs probably shouldn't be kept (except the floater, because hes classic... )

[j'ordos]

How excactly would you balance an invisible alien?

Motion Detector. Suddenly you'll want to research and manufacture that ASAP

I was just kidding though

[Cpl. Facehugger]

I never thought of the terminator as a cyborg. I always thought of him as a advanced robot wearing a human suit. (Complete with bodily functions )

[fux0r666]

In the movie Reese described him as a cybernetic organism. I'm not sure exactly what that means, but I think that the machine underneathe the skin sustains the flesh outside of it. I doubt there is any sort of heart or lungs or a curculatory system or nervous system that would be required to grow the skin and sustain it... it that the skin itself has machine parts encorperated into it to keep it alive.

Either way it's a machine/organic interface, even if the primary component is the machine and not the flesh as is normally associated with cybernetic organisms. Is that enough to classify it as a cyborg? Was the kid in D.A.R.Y.L. a cyborg? It was a machine brain that controlled the flesh around it. They called those sorts of entities something different in that old game called Star Control... I think they were called something like Psytrons or something.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Robocop had a human brain inside him. It was a cop's I believe.

In my mind, to be a cyborg, you have to have an organic brain, or be more than 70% organic.

Terminator had living tissue grafted onto his chassis. I would assume that his computer brain handled the tissue's maintence.

[fux0r666]

Yeah, if robocop was a cyborg than the Terminator and DARYL were reverse cyborgs. Heh... Unless cybernetic organism just implies organic-machine interface.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Hmm, I always assumed a cybernetic organism was a robot.

[fux0r666]

Cyborg and cybernetic organism are the same things, in case anyone in here doesn't know.

CYBORG
CYBernetic ORGanism.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

I suppose you are right.

Anyway, I feel that combat robots would detract from the game. Now a muton in powered armor minus the helmet would look pretty damn good and make mutons even harder to kill

[Extralucas]

I suppose you are right.

Anyway, I feel that combat robots would detract from the game. Now a muton in powered armor minus the helmet would look pretty damn good and make mutons even harder to kill

So maybe only armors than new alien races. Say, floater in armor which gives him more TUs, more health, and... Armor . Same thing could be used for sectoids, snakemans, mentioned earlier mutons...

If CYBORG=CYBernetic ORGanism then many aliens are CYBORGS already, tho.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

True, Most of our aliens already have cybernetic implants. Like reapers, celatids, sillicoids, mutons, etc.

I really like the idea of armoring aliens, it would make them harder to kill, and it would still stay realtively true to the original. I mean, xcom can make armor, why can't the aliens? Maby only ranked aliens should be able to use armor though.

[Extralucas]

Why should they tho? Who's doing most fighting around? Slodiers or this one commander guy sitting in the base guarded by many of those soldiers. I guess high ranked aliens should have armor which unablies capturing 'em. Just like arsenic poison hidden in a tooth

[Breunor]

Having armor upgrades through cyborg implants would be a good way to keep it tough in the later game. You could set a time frame when armor starts to be used, like 1 year. When it begins, 25% of aliens, minimum 1, have armor in sites, and increases by 15-25% each month until they all do. It would take the aliens time to convert it all after all. I would lean towards armored aliens or minor implants over a full robocop/terminator type chassis, and for units already robotic like the sectopod, you could have a more glorified version, a little extra flair to make it noticably different. Just imagine: "oh no! It's a sectoid! Bring up the heavy plasma, let's hope it can take out that Grey!"

[Extralucas]

Having armor upgrades through cyborg implants would be a good way to keep it tough in the later game. You could set a time frame when armor starts to be used, like 1 year. When it begins, 25% of aliens, minimum 1, have armor in sites, and increases by 15-25% each month until they all do. It would take the aliens time to convert it all after all. I would lean towards armored aliens or minor implants over a full robocop/terminator type chassis, and for units already robotic like the sectopod, you could have a more glorified version, a little extra flair to make it noticably different. Just imagine: "oh no! It's a sectoid! Bring up the heavy plasma, let's hope it can take out that Grey!"

I guess that should depend on things like difficulty level and alien bases count (they can be factories too).

[fux0r666]

Well, my vision would be a robocop chasis in a manner of speaking, but not in essence. What I'm going for with the heavily butchered races (such as the muton) is a fully fleshy individual with the relevent bits replaced with technology that is not flesh and is not machine but both at once. The relevent bits on the muton would be anything that helps it survive in hostile environments or combat situations, ie. Sensory organs, lungs, skin.

The best way I can describe the look of the parts on that concept that noone like as looking 'too robotic' would be a microscopic polimer mesh. It would give the appearance of a malible(sic) (ie. Bendy and elastic) plastic. After all that I would make something up about its properties like it reacts to jumps in kinetic energy by forming chemical matrices that harden the armor and absorb energy for as long as the energy spike is present. It would also function as a sensory organ and would communicate the the muton's CNS... blah blah blah.

[fux0r666]

Yeah. Way less surreal.