Why Xcom Rules Over Halo 3 Players

[Aiki-Knight]

My friend has an XBox 360 and got Halo 3. He hooked it up to the 32" plasma TV at my place to show me how cool it is. And it is - the graphics on the 360 are amazing. The game itself it also really fantastic.

 

But he's playing Halo 3 ... wrong.

 

The game has cover everywhere, with lots of opportunities for long-range firefights. My friend, he'll advance to contact, sight a bunch of bad guys, and then without further ado, he tries to storm them! And he gets killed. And complains about how hard it is. And then does it again. Eventually, he'll pass the battle and move on. He's an experienced Xbox player who has completed Gears of War on the hardest level.

 

That is, with MY help.

 

I'd never played XBox before, and honestly couldn't even work the controller. But he'd been complaining that he couldn't succeed on the hardest level because he kept getting killed, and wanted a second player to make it work. So I agreed. Well, we started to play and the first thing he does is storm ahead. I mean, this guy's got no sense of door control, or firing arcs, or being flanked. He just charges in and starts blasting and gets killed because he literally runs right past enemies who get his back and take him out.

 

"Wait, wait, for God's sake, man! That's not how this is done." I was amazed: there was good cover everywhere, and lots of long battlefields perfect for winning firefights with firing arcs, ammunition conservation, and superior aim. Tons of chokepoints and doors to catch groups of enemies in. Don't charge into a room: cover, secure, wait, scout, advance, repeat. Basically, what I was taught in the army, and what any good XCOM player does. Use grenades etc on large groups. Fire and move. Use cover. Use chokepoints. Snipe, snipe, snipe, snipe, and snipe.

 

Once I taught him this, and God knows it took time crapping on him to stop storming, we pretty-well cruised to the final scene, which was of course chaotic and nigh-impossible: fighting on a train flatcar against a supernatural boss protected by a swarm of immortal ... bats. I mean, ? Anyway, that was about cover, good aim, and well-timed movement to new cover.

 

I mean, there's a time to storm. And I know that in multiplayer play online, all the 12-year-olds would kill me as they storm everywhere, all the time. But the first-person shooter in my experience, promotes this ridiculous storming style of play, because characters can apparently recover from an unlimited number of fatal wounds if they rest for ... a few seconds. I mean, come on! Seems to me that an XCOM3 group playing this game would do it very, very differently: carefully, intelligently, thoughtfully. Because, in XCOM, your agents don't regenerate. They die. I think any good XCOM player understands the incredible value of killing a Chryssalid or a dimension-armed arthropod, or a popper, at a distance, under cover and with superior aim. Storming happens when the aliens are just not willing to pop out, or X1/X2 aliens are slaughtering civilians in hiding.

 

I think XCOM remains a far better game for the way it promotes thinking, planning, and creativity. Even late-game agents can die. The best players don't often lose agents. And that's why I was so appalled at the way, apparently, people play Gears of War and Halo 3. God, if X3 looked like either one, that, THAT, my friends would be a GAME. And WE would deserve it. :-)

Edited October 7, 2007 by Aiki-Knight

[[NKF]]

This topic might be better suited in the General XCom Discussion - it's a very wide sweeping topic. Mind if I move it?

 

---

 

I was thinking the same thing when I was playing the original Halo on the hardest setting. Even though it is hard and you do have to rely on save/reload immortality from time to time (it's built in - can't be helped), it's still a hard game and if you don't make use of strategy, you will not be able to progress.

 

I can remember the map where you are stranded with a team of AI companions around some fortified platform and these dropships keep coming in ... I don't know how many times I had to redo this mission - felt like Groundhog day. Really, you can fight well out in the open, but only for so long until they over-run you.

 

Then I smartened up and used some good old strategy. Cover, sniping (even if all you have is a plasma pistol) and patience. It wasn't as heroic, but I was able to keep this up until the mission timer was over.

 

So if brute force isn't working - start using that noggin.

 

- NKF

Edited October 8, 2007 by Zombie
Moved to correct forum

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

What forum was this in before? o.O

 

 

Well, Aiki Im sorry to tell you.

I myself an a halo3 player, and rushing to kill people is so much faster

the grenades have a much smaller blast radius than in xcom

you can Jump to dodge shots, move left and right.

the cover gets thrown away easily by most of the troops

 

Oh, and I melee the hunters for fun ^^!

 

Fact is, the physics of the games are entirely differant.

 

X-Com doesnt have shotguns or effective real time rushing ai for troops.

 

Otherwise you know that I would be rushing aliens with those short range weapons dodging shots by dropping down and hopping to a square next to me.

 

 

 

Halo3 is a little dissapointing for me personally, knowing its the last of the series apparently.

There are so many things they could have done but didnt. ]:

[Aiki-Knight]

What forum was this in before? o.O

 

 

Well, Aiki Im sorry to tell you.

I myself an a halo3 player, and rushing to kill people is so much faster

the grenades have a much smaller blast radius than in xcom

you can Jump to dodge shots, move left and right.

the cover gets thrown away easily by most of the troops

 

Oh, and I melee the hunters for fun ^^!

 

Fact is, the physics of the games are entirely differant.

 

X-Com doesnt have shotguns or effective real time rushing ai for troops.

 

Otherwise you know that I would be rushing aliens with those short range weapons dodging shots by dropping down and hopping to a square next to me.

 

 

 

Halo3 is a little dissapointing for me personally, knowing its the last of the series apparently.

There are so many things they could have done but didnt. ]:

 

You raise an interesting point: SHOTGUNS! Incorporating such a feature would be interesting in XCOM. And I realize that it's definitely a different game, Halo 3 that is, but the whole running storm-chase lacks some strategy. I think there must be games out there that reward a combination of hand-eye coordination with storming, and very good tactics and strategy. I do like the melee aspect in Halo 3, but would like to see it made more diverse (more than just elbow smashes), and more realistic (why would a single elbow smash or butt-stroke kill someone who can shrug off tank fire?) Diverse weapons are good, cool-looking armor is also good (the white halo-armor skin looks like Imperial Biker Scouts on steroids from Star Wars), hand-to-hand is good, too. I guess I would only want to get into a game where the combat felt ... down-to-earth, and where thinking and stealth were as valuable as controller-manipulation. Maps with cover. Non-linear strategy. Cool armor. Decent hand-to-hand combat. Honestly, when I saw my friend and his girlfriend playing against each other, they were right in front of each other, trying to shoot with long-rifles. I admit there were times when I would have done a good Judo throw to slow down the other player, THEN killed that opponent.

 

Does anyone know what games it is that, down-deep, I'm looking for?

 

Maybe I should just get my friends out for some laser-tag, then keep going to Judo for the unarmed fighting.

 

Please continue to weigh in, XCOM legions. I've love to hear what everyone thinks.

[gufu]

Complete lacks of HE packs = fail

Rocker Whoring = fail

Otherwise fun...

[zaimoni]

Otherwise you know that I would be rushing aliens with those short range weapons dodging shots by dropping down and hopping to a square next to me.

Having tried this when frame-stepping in RT: side-stepping sort of works at effective move 64+, at least for shots from the "other side of the room" (and is pretty much essential to have any chance of surviving three rockets in a row in Megapol armor without shields). Note that the game only allows changing direction when at standard square position; if you've already started a move, you have to complete it first.

 

If I actually took the time to understand the LoS and time systems, it might be possible to go further and break LoS faster than the attacker could aim with cover.

 

The effective time rate appears to be 18-19 frames/second (have counted both frame counts), leading me to think the framedrawing code is double-buffered. The actual draw may be a simple hook of the 18.77Hz interrupt.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Zai you are looking at this too fancy

 

 

and Aiki, theres a few games I can suggest for the feel of, oh noes. one shot Im dead.

 

Ghost Recon, any paint ball game, ..Real paint ball.. xD

theres a fair number of them out there, but they are devastatingly unpopular due to the difficulty even on the easiest modes, as you often cant see where the shots are coming from.

[[NKF]]

NRN_Sumo: This was originally in the Apocalypse forum, but due to its general nature it's better suited here.

 

There are times and places for cover and sniping, and there are times for when you get in close to get close and personal. The same thing happens in X-Com Apocalypse.

 

Just standing your ground and taking it like a man until one or the other falls doesn't work in either game except perhaps on the easiest setting. On the hardest setting, you'd find yourself back at your last save point before you realise what hit you.

 

When I was playing Halo 1 and 2, whenever I was not put in a situation where there's plasma bolts firing at me from all directions, I really enjoyed getting up close to fight the Covenant (the sword in 2 was great). It's much easier to get plasma grenades to stick to your enemies this way. Close range charged plasma pistol bursts are also quite valuable for quick takedowns of small groups of enemies. Not that you can't do it at long ranges - they're just bigger targets up close.

 

- NKF

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

who said anything about standing ground? xD

Sitting is so much more fun.

 

especially in multiplayer games where people get frustrated as you slowly duck and walk away, because they have such a terrible time aiming in the more realistic games. xD

[John Faust]

I can't tell whether I suck, My strategy's suck, or my- wait no, my friends are really good...

the thing that impressed me most was the rubble. most games seem to use a single object for a pile of rubble, but halo 3 uses many small ones... now all it needs is Geo-Mod!

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Yes the graphics of the explosions are great

I couldnt agree more with the Geo-Mod though.

That was something I was very dissapointed about when I saw there was a level editor in halo3.

 

I was going to make some crazy donkey levels to go nuts in, but sadly all you could do is props ;-;

[John Faust]

it's difficult to make a good editor for a console game. Time Splitters had one of the best. I do enjoy playing forge mode in multiplayer though.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

its not overly difficult to use one, just tedius for the really Good levels xD

Using a template would most likely be a nessessity of course.