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Alien Armor... More, Better, Meaner, Scarier!


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#1 Monkey Hamer

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 01:29 PM

One thing that always bothered me about Xcom was the lack of armor (and cloaths! :sly: ) that many aliens exhibited. These guys came all the way across the void of space... without basic cloathing or protection.

That just doesnt make sence to me.

What I would like to see is at least some sort basic armor for nearly all of the species, and some more advanced armors.

Why would Greys go on a terror mission NAKED?

If the aliens are planning to see combat (IE if they are on a battleship, terror mission, etc...) then I would like to seem they have armor ov various types.

You basic Grey on a harvest or scout ship might not wear armor. They wouldnt expect trouble.

But the Grey (just an example, it could be any species of alien) that is on a terror mission could have POWER ARMOR. Yes, I said power armor.

Not UBER armor, just something that makes it plausable for the little alien to carry that blaster launcher/heavy plasma and gives him more protection (you are going to have to have a LUCKY shot to kill them with a asault rifle).

Something that would look COOL! :rock:

Gives the artists someting very interesting to express themselves with.

Maybe the Mutons in heavy power armor would be a bit more on the UBER side, but that is all part of the challenge. Maybe the only way to kill those UBER armored Mutons is with HWs or luck, or explosives, or etc... But your laser rifle might only scar the paint job.

But please, no more nakid aliens running around, it just doesnt make sence.

#2 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 01:52 PM

I think that alien armor should be employed gradually. The aliens don't start with armor because they don't expect earth to be too much trouble. Then, once humans start toting heavy plasma guns and such, then they realize "Oh crap! We actually need some armor!"

And remember, Mutons, Etherials, and Floaters all had clothing. :D
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#3 Whitewashed

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 01:57 PM

you don't see any wild animals walk around with clothes on do you? their skin offers the warmth and protection they need so why strap on some ugly rugs?

#4 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 02:02 PM

Because those ugly rugs *when impregnated with alien composite alloys* can protect you from bullets!
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#5 Monkey Hamer

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 02:34 PM

you don't see any wild animals walk around with clothes on do you? their skin offers the warmth and protection they need so why strap on some ugly rugs?

Not sure what wild animals have to do with the issue.

I dont consider the aliens of Xcom to be wild animals, though some are closer to that description then others.

And in that sence, I have yet to see a wild animale toting around a automatic weapon of some sort.

The way an alien race dressed could be a very effective way to flesh out their cultural stuff. IE the aliens from Babalon 5, Stargate, etc... You can tell a lot of things by the books cover if you will.

Say if the Muton you just spotted while you are on a terror mission has war paint on his face and human HEADS hanging from his belt dripping gore.

:whatwhat:

That is much more terrifying to me then a guy in a green spandex jumpsuit.

And that Muton should be wearing armor, not just cloaths. And he should be SCARY!!! Scary armor, skulls and such. Even a ver alien race would likely see the skull as a symbol of death. If the helmet of the Muton Power armor was in the likeness of a leering human skull and if he had human heads as ornaments...

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#6 Monkey Hamer

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Posted 11 March 2004 - 02:39 PM

Because those ugly rugs *when impregnated with alien composite alloys* can protect you from bullets!

I like the idea of gradual integration of armor. That would be a nice touch. But I would expect the terrorists to have some sort of armor (even light armor) from the start.

I agree that stopping bullets would be a excellent motivator to stop being naked, as much fun as that is. Especialy dancing naked!!!

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This is one of my first topics, thanks for replying. I am a huge Xcom fan, and found this awsome project while surfing for Xcom sites. I didnt know it existed until yesterday.

It is very impressive. Cant hardly wait!

#7 Tuoppi

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 08:46 AM

Don't know about the heads-stuff... No "civilized" army carries trophies as they hinder movement and are generally in the way of fighting effectively. <_<

IIRC that green outfit of mutons was a permanently fitted tough biological armor. As our dear aliens like genetical/biological engineering this might be nice solution. In terror- and other high-risk- missions even tougher additional armor could be used.

No need for clothes when you wear our light-plasma -proof bioarmor, it is comfortable, practical and has no vulnerable joints, Exclusively from TV-shop 9995$. :wink:

#8 Monkey Hamer

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Posted 12 March 2004 - 03:09 PM

Civilized Army is a relative term! If they are trying to take our planet away and enslave/eat us, then IMO they are not civil by any means! :D

I do suppose the heads thing is a little to dramatic. To much WH 40K in my youth.

Bio armor...

:huh?:

Like Guyver? That would be cool.

I can see that, definately.

I would like to see purely machine power armor from the aliens though.

I realy want challenging battles, I want the aliens to spank me!!!

:spank:

#9 Tuoppi

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 05:03 AM

I take it that this implemented armor is alien clothes. All vulnerable aliens are modified with growing, organically-linked-to-body bioarmor soon after birth(or whatever they come from). Ethereals could not support this kind of strain to their physique, and chryssalid exoskeleton is unable to have one (and is hard enough as it is).

Additional alien protection like power armor is nice idea, but i think it should only be seen in terror- and base attacks. Could be required to research before human power armor. (I'd like to see one of a snakeman!!!)

Off-topic, With "civilized army" i meant one that uses more advanced weapons than sticks and stones.

#10 stewart

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 09:13 AM

Actually I was thinking that sectoids should all be female. Then they don't have to be clones but would still need a genetic lab for breeding. One sectoid donates an egg while the other donates her x chromosome. It actually would work. then you can write fluff as to why the sectoids got rid of the y chromosome. Plus I remember reading some UFO lore about male human abductees getting raped and stuff; I'd assume a race of women only would probably get a little antsy after a while.
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#11 Monkey Hamer

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Posted 13 March 2004 - 09:29 AM

I take it that this implemented armor is alien clothes. All vulnerable aliens are modified with growing, organically-linked-to-body bioarmor soon after birth(or whatever they come from). Ethereals could not support this kind of strain to their physique, and chryssalid exoskeleton is unable to have one (and is hard enough as it is).

Additional alien protection like power armor is nice idea, but i think it should only be seen in terror- and base attacks. Could be required to research before human power armor. (I'd like to see one of a snakeman!!!)

Off-topic, With "civilized army" i meant one that uses more advanced weapons than sticks and stones.

Armor=Alien Cloaths

:huh?:

Sure, why not, they are worn and such.

If the aliens want to "grow" thier armor so be it.

Or, as you suggested, the armor is grafted to certain aliens, the soldiers that are going to be going on raids or defending important instilations. They could be very cool looking bio armored Greys for example, or a very SCARY Snakeman!!!

Oh, here are a few examples of "cvilized armies" (IE use more then just sticks and stones) that adorn their armor and such with skulls and heads. Just look to WH 40K for a great variety of such stuff!!!

#12 Magstar

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Posted 26 March 2004 - 08:28 PM

It's quite clear that the only civilized army in WH40k is that of the Eldar, and I don't see any skulls there. But beside that, I still think the aliens should develop laser-refracting armor once we start to use a lot of laser-based weapons.

#13 Xer0

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 07:09 PM

Like Guyver?  That would be cool.

Exactly what I was thinking. :D

Then again, that armor is badarse-looking, so it could be human armor, since we all know that the humans have to have the coolest looking armor in the game. :rock: :LOL:

As for the aliens, Sectoids I could see later on with some lighter armor, since their bodies are probably inept for carrying heavy loads. Something like a laser tag vest was coming to mind, actually.

The skin of a Muton is already armor itself, so not much need to worry about that. Ethereals have their cloaks, so not much there either. Chryssalids seem to be quite expendable, so I doubt armor would even be a question for them.

Floaters could have their more "advanced models", as mentioned before, which could be more heavily armored. Reapers could even have some armor on them; something similar to a war horse, maybe with metal spikes and horns.

Anyway, just a few thoughts here and there.

#14 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 13 April 2004 - 08:05 PM

I think we should shy away from the organic weapons and armor. I mean, that look is used to death already.

The aliens should get a suit of mechanical power armor (that doesn't look as cool as ours.) Take a look at fux0r's grey concept. That envirosuit could be easily tweaked to be a full suit of armor.

Morlocks don't need armor. They are badbutt enough as it is.

Cloaks can't support armor (as has been said before)

Vipers could use a high-tech version of plate mail (like the original viper concept had)

Satryians (sp?) could have more mechanical bits

Artopods are pretty much one big hunk of armor, same with terror disks

Ventriculants are just blobs, no real way you can fix that

Raptors could use some small armor (but nothing too major, they are animals after all.)
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#15 Tuoppi

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 01:44 AM

Sounds good to me. This bioarmor thingy was to explain why aliens don't die on first rifleshot and why they run around virtually naked. Extra protection should definitely be added when aliens themselves are planning attack.

Might be in ufopaedia entry in a level of [Alien Origins] or something similar. A short note like:

Most of the aliens carry surgically implemented organic armor, a kind of ultra-hard skin that is perfectly flexible and offers fairly good protection.

#16 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 08:40 AM

This bioarmor thingy was to explain why aliens don't die on first rifleshot and why they run around virtually naked.

Humans don't die on the first rifleshot, either. Rifles are really that weak. -_-
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#17 Tuoppi

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 11:37 AM

Humans don't die on the first rifleshot, either. Rifles are really that weak. 

Basic assault rifle easily pierces a man or two, or shoots through 30cm thick concrete wall. With dumdum or similar rounds it turns a fist sized tunnel of flesh into mincemeat. Rifle is not weak, and humans are fragile beings.

I have never shot a man, so i must refer to hunting. (Following is for standard bullet-types hunting moose.)

Generally instant kill needs a good hit (Head, spine, chest, or shock-causing hit), a gut-shot or hit in lungs doesn't kill quickly, but are fatal after hours. Hit in most other internal organs, larger veins or major bones kills after some minutes. If a bare muscle is hit but bones and veins are not damaged badly, an animal can live on even completely without care.

A standard 5,56 or 7,62 is more than enough to kill a large bear, I don't see a way a man could survive much better. A puny .22 with subsonic ammo would be well enough to pierce vital organs and kill a man. And humans seem to feel pain much stronger than animals. I think a soldier who is hit in torso is barely able to crawl around, fighting or running around is quite unrealistic.

#18 Robo Dojo 58

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 01:48 PM

a gut-shot or hit in lungs doesn't kill quickly, but are fatal after hours.

You seem to suggest that you'd die from the fatal wounds of a rifle hit. That's different from an instant kill.

It's extremely hard to do an instant kill with a rifle. You need very careful aim, which can't be done in a close quarters battle. A human that is shot with a rifle will live far too long, and can still do some decent damage before he dies. Any combat drugs, and he'll barely know he's shot. (same with aliens.) If he gets medical attention for a rifle shot, there's a very good chance that he'll live. Especially with medicine 10 years from now.

That's why alien plasma is so much better- it drops you on the ground dead, from the first shot. No amount of drugs can make molten flesh and nerves work, and no amount of medicine can save charcoal.
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My first order of business: Homeless people make cheap rookies, and are great at opening UFO doors. Heck, they're so cheap, I'm going to replace all personel with them!
Secondly: This organisation takes too much money to run. Weapon shipments will come from Siberia from now on. Costly maintenance is to be cut on all facilities. That includes venting.
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#19 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 14 April 2004 - 06:20 PM

And that is why the aliens need their own armor to compete with the plasma asorbing Combat Powersuit.
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#20 ChonkE

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Posted 02 June 2004 - 01:38 AM

O.T. Hey all, after long bout of teaching I finally got time to drop by and see whats up! Fantastic work guys! keep it up!

Well, aliens with armor. Hmmmm.... I would certainly see the advantages in game difficulty and perhaps AI stuff, such as armor equipped aliens used as an assault force, or to envelop the operatives while lighter units flank or the like Would make ya wish ya had a rear guard and flankers out :blink: . I totally dig what facehugger suggested with the look of the armor for the various aliens. It would look better in an aesthetic standpoint.
I just cant personally envision Grey's clunkin' around in powered armor. Dont seem right to me for some reason. Maybe they should have sub-dermal implants like Tuoppi suggested. It would make sense on their combat units and captains, and perhaps even the medics, but not on maintenance units and the like. Personal shielding might be an option as well. On terror missions Aliens could use both due to the heightened risk and danger involved to the xeno-crews.
As far as the plasma goes, it would be nice for the aliens to have some greater protection from its devastating effects.

Side Note: 80 grain fmj@2900 fps or a 130 grain fmj@2500 fps are going to do quite a bit of damage. I've hunted large game with .30 caliber bullets and they put down 600+ lbs animals with little trouble (only have had 1 elk get up and run on me). Rifle bullets are excellent killers, but the rifles themselves are the drawbacks with long barrels that are hard to maneuver in small areas and slow aquisition sites. Carbines, submachine guns, pistols are good, but nothing beats a shotgun with number 4 buckshot in close. Unless they are wearing Combat Power Armor in which case, plasma cannon would be quite effective. Now a plasma shotgun/sprayer......

That would be cool :rock:

#21 Guest_KillZone_*

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 07:12 AM

Hey there
Im new to this place (But not UFO) and was wondering wether I could help with Project Xenocide with the creative writings thats left..

But anyway

Id be more scared of a 10ft clanking battle suit/walker/dreadnought than some little grey in power armour..especially if said uber can came crashing out of a 3 story(SP?) building..onto my 150lb rookies...

Watching the aliens slowly getting more and more "cannified" would be really cool...


If I can get a place in the Project, thatd be really great an I swear I wount let ya down. PM me or EMail me if you have anything to ask, say good or bad

#22 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 07:29 AM

If I can get a place in the Project, thatd be really great an I swear I wount let ya down. PM me or EMail me if you have anything to ask, say good or bad

There is something called the Recruitment center. Post your application there.
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#23 Guest_KillZone_*

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Posted 13 June 2004 - 09:01 AM

LOL

Never thought Id go through THAT stage of n00bishness again..soz aboot that...

#24 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 05:04 PM

Say if the Muton you just spotted while you are on a terror mission has war paint on his face and human HEADS hanging from his belt dripping gore.

:whatwhat:

That is much more terrifying to me then a guy in a green spandex jumpsuit.

And that Muton should be wearing armor, not just cloaths.  And he should be SCARY!!!  Scary armor, skulls and such.  Even a ver alien race would likely see the skull as a symbol of death.  If the helmet of the Muton Power armor was in the likeness of a leering human skull and if he had human heads as ornaments...

:master:

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i like the muton savage idea but not the power armor one (reminds me to much of preitor) maby the mutons could be a primative race acimlated by the alien empire

also i dount like the idea of the greys wering any armor it doesint sound right
if thay want protection from buillits than leve the fighting to the floters and mutons ( i always thought of them as the tecknitshins and pilots anywhay)

#25 Paladin

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Posted 16 August 2004 - 06:52 AM

Yeah, besides, the Sectopods were the alien Equivalent of the Power Armor... (dearly holds his laser Rifle)
The Barbarian look does not fit really well with "technologically advanced", but they could get some more armor...
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#26 bountyhunter2211

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 02:12 PM

The complete savage Muton look is more like a cave-man thing, with the skulls dangling from ropes and such. The Mutons could have a helmet that resembles a skull for atmosphere. But, I don't armor should be extreme on the aliens. Like in the "Alien" horror movie series, they didn'y even need weapons. Though, a couple plates, like on the shoulders, and a helmet would be a very nice touch.


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#27 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 27 August 2004 - 07:12 PM

no no no a skull helmet would look to much like preditor or wharhammer if you change moutions make them barbarians or dount change them at all

#28 EtherImp

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 12:23 AM

I don't like the idea of aliens having armor at all.

1: They didn't in the original X-Com
2: Some aliens are already naturally armored
3: "Real" (if you consider them real) aliens have never been described as wearing armor.


Now, this is not to say aliens are real or you should believe in them.. although they may be.. Who knows?

Anyhow, the creators of the game obviously took atleast a moderate percentage of what they wrote from "Real life" accounts. How else can you explain the harvesters, abductor ships, the resemblance of the Gray's to what you see described in books and in movies and by real abductee's? Obviously the game was made to reflect the "reality", even if it is only a myth.
Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the 'one'.
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#29 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 07:29 AM

yah keep the aliens as thay are

#30 centurion

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 09:15 AM

1: They didn't in the original X-Com
2: Some aliens are already naturally armored
3: "Real" (if you consider them real) aliens have never been described as wearing armor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ad 1: since we're not copying the original, I consider armor being a gameplay-enhancing feature, which is good.
ad 2: and if they strap a piece of rusting alien alloys over their vitals, they survive better; it's a pretty simple way to make a creature last longer in combat, especially compared with enhancing them biologically.
ad 3: those weren't aliens from battleships and terror ships, so they could come in their "working clothes" and not care to wear their combat gear. Nobody described plasma-weapon-toting aliens either, did they?
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#31 EtherImp

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Posted 29 August 2004 - 12:42 AM

No, they didn't describe mutons or ethereals or sectopods either, but they are all in the game and they all have better armor than your typical gray.
Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the 'one'.
Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending,
To write it down for all the world to see.

But I forgot my pen!

#32 Snakeman

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Posted 29 August 2004 - 01:58 PM

I figure since the description of the Mutons in the original game suggests that they are carnivores, I don't think its that much more of a stretch to suggest that they might not relish in their victories over humans by displaying body parts or whatever else in their appearance. It sounds cool anyway.

On the other hand I also like the minimalist approach to the organic armor stuff. With the plethora of genetic engineering each race undergos, and considering many if not all are under the influence of a master brain (or more than one), it doesn't make too much sense that they'd develop much of an individuality (or creativity to make such bizzare armors). I mean if they did have some kind of automomy apart from being controlled by a master brain or by other PSI means, then I think you could explain better from a story perspective why all the gradual alterations to their battle garb.

Perhaps the change in attire over time could simply be explained that when controlled by a higher intelligence, the brain witnesses everything that that alien unit does. Therefore as its forces take losses, it has the opportunity to adapt to our tactics....hence the new armor looks etc.

Edited by Snakeman, 29 August 2004 - 02:02 PM.


#33 Paladin

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 06:51 AM

I agree the original aliens did not have armor, but this is for V1+ :D
So yes, giving them some means to adapt themselves would level the playing field a bit, especially if they suddently come in a batch of specially bred aliens with organic armor, because you're pissing them off :LOL:
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#34 Snakeman

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 11:49 AM

Well I mean, if nothing else, I do like the intimidation factor it brings to us from the alien's side of things.

- You do a mission where you took some losses

- A few missions later (or, preferably the next time that race is encountered) a few aliens are sporting arm, leg, torso, or helmet armor that was canabalized from your previous squad.

Also, since I'm assuming these things are made from alien alloys (meaning both sides can manipulate those alloys any way they need them), you could come up with some creative variations on what they did with those segments (adding spikes or something scary like that, or maybe that torso unit came from a flying suit...how scary would that be to suddenly see a muton who couldn't fly before fly now? :devillaugh: ).

I do not know how the detail is planned for the graphics, but I think that perhaps an added factor to make this all "very personal" in the fight is whether or not we can put details or decals on our armors. Might be neat to inspect a corpse at least and see close up that a chunk of armor came from a dude of yours :) Maybe it simply has a name plate on it to single it out.

Well, if not that, maybe a hit to morale in general when coming to see these things for the first time in battle...

*Begin Hudson Impression from Aliens*

"We're fridos man! They're gonna come in here and their gonna get us! Game over man!"

*End Hudson Impression from Aliens*

Edited by Snakeman, 30 August 2004 - 11:50 AM.


#35 Gryx

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 02:25 AM

Speaking of alien clothing...

What would be great is if the aliens also wore special equipment as per their rank. (eg. engineers have toolbelts, medics have medical scanners, etc.)

#36 Paladin

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Posted 10 September 2004 - 07:12 AM

Speaking of alien clothing...

What would be great is if the aliens also wore special equipment as per their rank. (eg. engineers have toolbelts, medics have medical scanners, etc.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ooo, cool idea :idea:
They already have some of that, as Medics (and engineers??) Have small launchers, and navigators/leaders usually have the mind probes...
Heym, that's right, Medics should have mind probes too!!
(besides, at 300K$, it's a bargain!!
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#37 kashyyk

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 01:35 PM

expanging on the clothing for different ranks perhaps medics could have a white shirt on or a red cross band on there arm. :hmmm:

mayb the leaders could hav a cloak or somthin to show ther a leader? B)

#38 sir_schwick

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 03:42 PM

I do think Mutons should have even 'casual' armor on at all times. It seems from the original game they were created/assimilated for the purpose of fighting and warfare. Why so many knocks on Predator? He was one bad mutha-watch-yo-mouth. Another thing that would be nice is if both sides learned a few things about camoflauge. All the inter-stellar technology in the world sometimes does not compare to a few interlapping stripes of foilage colored garb with some actual branches on top.

Maybe the medics should have some kind of alien symbol analogous to the red cross symbol humans use for medics. I would think alien personal armors would features whatever makes the Sectopods resilient to plasma fire. They do fight with plasma and would be wary if its effects. Its the lasers they have never really played with.

#39 Ghost5831

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 05:18 AM

Mutons do have armour, not sure if its in the UFOpaidiea (cant spell it) but they are PURPLE skinned beings with GREEN armour
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#40 Blehm 98

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 08:08 AM

I've always thought higher ranks would probably have equipment on, like things that distinguish them from the rest. Like a soldier might have armor, and a leader would have more... ornate armor. Then the commander has his own armor that looks completely different...

of course, that would only happen with warrior classes like Floaters and snakemen, and possibly with mutons.
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#41 sir_schwick

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 09:06 AM

Even then the likelihood of differentiating officer dress is unlikely. The main advantage of making the officer conspicuous was identification in a large crowd. Certainly during Napoleonic and previous times, when it was uncouth to aim at officers, that was necessary to move large formations. However with small unit warfare came the ugly fact that marking your Sargeant with distinguishing gear(giant clock-necklace for example) made him/her a good target for snipers. The aliens would not want that either, would they? They may be arrogant, but lets not make them primitive tactics wise also.

#42 MaaZeus

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 04:47 AM

About aliens being civilised and such, are you all so certain that what humans perceive as civilised and intelligent are same for alien culture? You know, if some alien scientist studies humans and human ethics, he would most likely say "what a wierd race with even wierder customs...". Thats pretty much same with different human races too. All you need to do is to travel to different country and get a culture shock. :)

I like Predator movies and the culture biography that has grown around them, especially with AlienvsPredator comics and games. They have very high techonoly and good intelligence but their custom is the hunt for honor and trophies or test of manhood for younglings. Barbaric for us, but certainly not for them.

So i like the idea of war trophies for mutons too. Nice (and spooky) way to show their status and rank. :)

Edited by MaaZeus, 09 August 2006 - 04:48 AM.


#43 sir_schwick

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 12:55 PM

As a warrior race, maybe the Mutons do take trophies. However skulls and skin seem rather banal in terms of expected trophies. Maybe it would be equipment and stuff salvaged from defeated enemies. For example they would attach rifle parts, unit insignias, and other trophies of the opposing force. That would be for guards and Mutons not on stealth related missions. They would demonstrate their skills as warriors and status by having the booty of enemy goods. You can almost identify enemy officers because they will have the same equipment your officers did. That is assuming officers are considered the greater of kills.