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Ufo Meets Tftd Meets Xcorps Meets...


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#1 Mark0

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 09:08 AM

Woudl it be possible to "mix" up X-com1 and X-com 2??
when a Ufo is shot down, in water, u go on missions under water, and when Ufo is on land, u go on it on land.
if we can put X-com 1 and 2 all together, graphics would be different, but still it would be nice...

I hope u guys understand a bti what i mean by mixign the game up... :)

#2 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 12:04 PM

What a great idea!!!! ;)

#3 Guest_micahdg@xcomufo.com_*

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 03:41 PM

Yep, we've been talking about it. It seems the easiest (not that it'll be easy) Good idea, Stewert, and Mark ;)

#4 Guest_Guest_*

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 03:46 PM

Actually, it's a bit impossible. What if there are X-COM 1 aliens on the ship ? They would die because they where made for surface combat. Except for the Sectoid maybe, because he's close to the Aquatoid.

#5 Guest_ApOcaLyPSe_1985_*

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 03:46 PM

Alright that was me. I'm gonna register this time :D

#6 ApOcaLyPSe_1985

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 03:48 PM

W00t, i'm registered.

#7 Guest_micahdg@xcomufo.com_*

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 03:50 PM

Why would it be impossible to see UFO aliens on a ship?? Don't you see xcom squaddies running around on the same ship without their water suits on? I take it you meant that you wouldn't see UFO aliens running around under water? Who's to say they can't breathe under water, too? Maybe they have an oxygen tank strapped to their back. Besides, the point of combining the two games is to see if it's possible. Nobody cares whether or not the story, or little things like which aliens are where, makes sense. We just want to combat both alien groups at a time.


-Micah

#8 Mark0

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Posted 06 October 2002 - 08:20 PM

Besides, the point of combining the two games is to see if it's possible. Nobody cares whether or not the story, or little things like which aliens are where, makes sense. We just want to combat both alien groups at a time.


-Micah

this is the objectif we have to acheive ;)

btw what "code " was used to prgram X-com 1 and 2??
only need to learn it, and start making it.

#9 ApOcaLyPSe_1985

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Posted 07 October 2002 - 05:28 AM

LOL, it would be fun looking at them with water tanks.
But I think the best thing you should do is to let certain UFO aliens related to the Aqua species do the underwater breath thingy.

- Like Sectoid = Related to Aquatoid. The ufopedia explains it all. Webbing between fingers and stuff.
- Maybe the Chryssalid = Related to the Lobsterman and Tentaculat. But Chryssalid doesn't have to be related to anything at all. Most insects can survive under water for a long time.
- Maybe Reaper = Related to Triscene ? I've never seen one underwater so this one can't be Aqua.

#10 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 07 October 2002 - 10:57 AM

Let me put this to rest. In Xcom1 your squad can go to Mars and exist on the surface in T-Shirts. This is not an issue.

#11 PeterDragon

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Posted 07 October 2002 - 07:44 PM

Just look at Stewart's signiture..... :LOL:
You should read my new book: Trails In The Sand

ALL over exagerations are wrong

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#12 Guest_micahdg@xcomufo.com_*

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Posted 07 October 2002 - 08:04 PM

:LOL: stewert! thanks for proving my point

#13 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 08 October 2002 - 01:13 AM

Stewert and Steward are always glad to help. So's Stewart by the way. ;)

#14 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 08 October 2002 - 10:12 PM

Just look at Stewart's signiture.....  :LOL:

You may want to check-out my profile for additional hoots and guffaws; I particularly recommend seeing my birthday. :)

#15 Guest_Blake_*

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 12:45 AM

I don't think it would matter whether they were in water or on land since the earth's environment is supposed to be hostile to them anyway. I know I read that somewhere. Maybe in the manual it mentioned something about that (not sure if I read that in the manual or in some FAQ). I've always just figured the Aliens in xcom 1 hold their breath or have some sort of breathing apparatus. I mean, what are the chances of an alien that's conditioned to the environment of mars and different composition of gases being able to breathe earth's atmosphere?

However, I've also always figured the aliens in xcom2 breath under water. Like were evolved, or genetically engineered, to have some sort of gills etc. So go figure. Story-wise it's not really something that would break any suspension of disbelief. Afterall, they're aliens, and one could draw or fill in any conclusion for why the different species can exist in both environments. However, I agree that ideally the aquatic aliens would be in water and the xcom1 types on land. That would be the best. But it could work either way because I'd just imagine that an land alien probably strapped on his environmental gear as soon as he was going to combat in an environment that's hostile to him.

So it could fit in with the story to have both land and sea battles regardless of alien species. Would be cool to have both regardless.

Not sure if it would be easy to pull off though. Probably would be very difficult, but maybe there's enough collective talent on this board. Sure would be cool if it could be done.

Cool to see other fans of xcom also. They just don't makes games as great as breakthrough as xcom these days.

#16 gangsta

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 01:06 AM

Well hostile env. doesn't mean they don't breath oxygen. but sectoids obviously come from the ocean enviornment. They probably been modified to be able to survive on land too. Floaters have a life support system built into them. They might not breath at all and the life support does everything. Cyberdisc might be water proof. other aliens can wear suits most likely. Although for some of the dumber ones like reapers it might be nice to see their bodies scatter at the crash site. :) mean who would build a suit for a reaper? The ufos that have more than one type of alien not both types need to survive.
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#17 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 02:45 AM

I think what the guy said about the XCOM1 and XCOM2 aliens being separate makes sense, after all they have different controllers. Given that it would still be a challenging game and reasonably still make sense. Kind of like earth being attacked on two differenet fronts.

#18 gangsta

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 02:51 AM

Hey what about enviornment control on the ships. Just because the ship got hit and is at the bottom of the ocean doesnt mean it is all flooded. :) could have airlocks on all the UFOs wherever the entreance is. Mean we come to expect that from spaceships anyway.
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#19 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 03:54 AM

I realize for gaming purposes the UFOs have large empty rooms. But they really should be cramped things with lots of stuff in them. Plus I think all the small UFOs (small, medium, large scouts) should have legs to be more like 50s hollywood flying sausers. So their floors are on level 2 of the map.

#20 gangsta

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 04:35 AM

:D I like the idea with the ufo legs. Also when a ship crashes into the ocean it is less likely to get damage from impact. We should think of that when design our remake. doors without airlocks to damaged rooms could automatically magnetically lock to keep the undamaged compartments from sinking. Oh btw thinking about X-Com 2 I don't like the multi level missions it had. mean sort of sucks when you only have two guys left after a hard battle and then have to worry about the next level.
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#21 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 11:17 AM

Well the cruise ship missions simply have to go but I did like the the two step base assalt where you had to secure the ground first.

What about the idea of making all crews mixed only?

#22 gangsta

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 12:45 PM

Well 1 step ship missions might be good :) ... dunno what you mean by mixed. What about having reinforcements come in on multistep missions? I mean it wouldn't be so bad if the odds aren't impossible. I would have liked it though if the next step was just a diffrent height level
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#23 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 01:04 PM

XCOM2 has some subs bearing mixed crews (like having floaters and sectoids on the same ship), I like the idea.

#24 gangsta

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 01:14 PM

I like that idea too. I mean the way X-Com grouped diffrent types of aliens together doesnt make sense. They are all on the same team afterall
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#25 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 02:18 PM

Plus you are potenially facing mind control every time not to mension chrysalids too.

#26 ApOcaLyPSe_1985

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 02:25 PM

Actually a lot aliens can survive under water. Look at the Mars mission, they can all breath !
But some units would be restricted to under water combat, like Sectopod, cyberdisc, snakemen ( partial electronic enhancements ), and maybe muton too ?
It would be the best solution, I think.

#27 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 02:31 PM

Well the other option is simply to never mind about it.

But we may have to design some completely new aliens because the XCOM 1 and XCOM2 are basically the same.

#28 gangsta

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 02:32 PM

Offtopic here but how about naming the game Defense Squad. It combines the names of UFO Defense and Laser Squad the game by the same author that came out before X-Com 1. Or possibly Alien Defense Squad.
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#29 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 11 October 2002 - 02:44 PM

Apocrypha sounds cool though (and references the underground nature of this project). I'm not really into names that sound like a hollywood-the-US-kicks-insert_foriegn_nation_name-butt-kind-of-movie names.

#30 Seelie

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Posted 18 November 2002 - 09:56 PM

If you'll forgive the thread necromancy...

The real problem with the idea is that by the storyline the aliens in TFTD are in hibernation until after the great brain on Mars is killed. What would be best to mix the two games is to have the first game lead directly into the second. So when the great brain wakes up the aquatoids there are no new x-com 1 alien bases that show up, but the old ones are still active until dealt with. Including spawning terror missions and other sorts of activity for however long they last. Instead of starting over losing your plasma guns and armor and psychic training, and soldiers, there's a little bit of time before the first aquatoid strike. Then there's the shakedown time until X-com can adapt to counter the underwater threat. Until this point only generate land-based missions, such as the cruise ships and terror missions. Don't do the uniquely under-water missions yet.

Then, after like one or two months, or even until a tech is researched that opens access to the flying subs and other "starting" TFTD gear, you start moving to access the TFTD gameplay. Some countries would already have given in to the Martians. Probably with the death of the great brain you'd want to give them a small chance to return. Many will be at enhanced levels of funding. Good for you. You'll probably have multiple bases and very skilled soldiers. That's cool too. Some advantages, some disadvantages.

Once you get access to the underwater gear you start hitting the aquatoids and their minions hard. Too bad that plasma guns don't work under water, but you can still bring them to terror missions and so on. Same with lasers. You could even send a skyranger or avenger to a terror mission. Or have a ligtning trail a sub until it tried to jump over the land and shoot it down in the air. Then ahve a land-mission against them.

Since you have psychic powers early, accelerate the rate at which the underwater heavies show up, and maybe pump their psychic resistance a tad. Also, you could start out with some brutal early base assaults, perhaps double the number of aliens and always a few infiltrated into the deep parts of your base. Make it very likely that the player loses 1 or 2 bases right at the start of the TFTD story arc.

This way the game leads naturally into TFTD and continuity is preserved. Such as funding nations, which soldiers you have to fight with, which techs you've gained and so on. There's no reason to re-research terror mission tech, for example. But the space shuttle makes a really crappy submarine. So would the Avenger. So would flight armor. Power suits aren't built for underwater combat, but they work just fine on the surface. Get some alien tech and learn how to make the under-water versions. And so on. Give the aliens 10-20% resistance to plasma and laser weapons to encourage the use of TFTD gauss and sonic gear, but let you replace the need for using spear guns on land by keeping your leftover plasma and lasers.

I think it can work quite well.

#31 gangsta

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Posted 18 November 2002 - 11:55 PM

That can perhaps be added as an option of game play later on.. But what most of us have in mind I think is just to scrap the diffrence in the timeline of the first two x-coms and make it so that the game happens in the X-Com 1 timeline with the water aliens being part of the invasion force.
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#32 Seelie

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Posted 19 November 2002 - 02:22 AM

Why? Seems to me like a waste of a great storyline. Not to mention a great surprise ending. Honestly, how did you feel the first time you beat X-com one and instead of a "happily ever after" that beam of light hit the ocean and they left you with the "there's something even worse waiting for you..." ? Why take that away from the game?

#33 gangsta

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Posted 19 November 2002 - 02:34 AM

Ok I agree. I posted that before I posted the ideas in the new Multiplayer Ideas thread. We have come up with an idea where there will be several diffrent modes that change rules in the geoscope only. Read that thread and post your idea under the title X-Com: Xenocide - (Your Title Here)

:)
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#34 Guest_Periklez_*

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 07:01 AM

Talking about surface dwellers and submerged bugs. I think there is a great potential tactical element here. What if some of the aliens don't survive under water?

Then you would try to follow/chase them off land before downing them and then having an easier pick since part of the crew has drowned. Of course there are openings for new technology features identifying different alien species as well as learning more about the physiology of the species.

At the same time there is the idea of a less violent impact on water, making more aliens survive the crash in water. Also underwater fighting should be more dangerous to human soldiers, counterweighting the possibility to simply drown your opponents.

Oh, why are there no REAL monsters in the oceans? Imagine the terror if you succesfully down an UFO, drowning a larg part of your enemies (or at least confine them in there intact vessel) just to face a gigantic molecular controlled octopussy raising from the dark abyss. It could give you a time limit - pull out before eat reaches your transport.

(I know, no new aliens for a start. But anyway.)

/Periklez

#35 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 12:22 PM

If you'll forgive the thread necromancy...

The real problem with the idea is that by the storyline the aliens in TFTD are in hibernation until after the great brain on Mars is killed. What would be best to mix the two games is to have the first game lead directly into the second.

Nah, just borrow the story-line from Terminator; The Great Dreamer sends something back in time to wake the Great Dream at the same time that the Brain is conducting the War. XCOM2040 sends back a soldier with basic equipment that XCOM1999 can research for underwater activites.

I think it would be funner to deal with both threats at the same time. We'll need space for more than 8 bases though.

#36 gangsta

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 01:40 PM

yup.. and with the mode system it will be easy to modify the version with both threats so you can also play x-com 1 and 2. As for the combined mode.. at first we will only see sectoids in water.. I suggest calling them sectoids on land and in water.
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#37 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 04:17 PM

Nope the water ones are aquatoids. Remember there's 65 M years ofevolution and genetic engineering between the two species.

#38 gangsta

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 04:44 PM

What is really diffrent between a sectoid and an aquatoid? You mean in 65 million years they didn't evolve at all. We know aquatoids can go both on land (terror zones) and under the water. The look exactly alike. they do exactly the same thing.. There really is no diffrence between sectoids from X-Com 1 and Aquatoids from X-Com 2 except for the name. Sectoids still even have webbed feet.. if there was really 65 million years of evolution here then I doubt that.. To me they are the same species and it would be alot easier just to give them one name. Code wise sectoids could be the first alien we add and they will be able to fight in both above and underwater crash sites.
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#39 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 06:20 PM

We haven't seen sectoids underwater though. But if this is really really really important to you then fine.

#40 gangsta

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Posted 26 November 2002 - 07:24 PM

Well I think that is mainly because they don't have underwater terror missions. Remeber in X-Com 2 UFO's that crash on land disapear but terror missions still are on land. I really don't see a diffrence between sectoids and aquatoids in what they do. The UFOPedia in X-Com 1 even says they have webbed feet. Since both species act the same I think it would be simple to have the game start out mostly by sending out sectoids at the start and then add the other aliens as time progresses. Otherwise we'll have two aliens that look and act exactly alike being able to be shot down on earth and water that do the same thing..
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#41 Guest_stewart_*

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Posted 27 November 2002 - 01:09 PM

Honestly, all the monsters in XCOM2 are the same they just look different and have different names; I haven't gone so far as comparing stat-for-stat of "similar" monsters.

Maybe we should redesign all the monsters from the ground up, keeping the ones we all love but ditching the boaring ones . . . .

or not, whatever.

#42 gangsta

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Posted 27 November 2002 - 02:29 PM

Well right now we are only sure about getting the X-Com one models from our last hope friends. :) We have limited resources to work with here and modeling can take as long as programming.
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#43 Guest_Hojo_*

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Posted 29 November 2002 - 08:57 AM

How about redefining the captured alien concept? I.e- introducing "defector" and "surrendered" aliens, and allowing you to (after a certain action is undertaken, maybe a Brainwashing Lab?) use an alien just like any other X-COM operative in battle.

I mean, they're not vicious beyond reason. Whether he's a Sectoid or a Tasoth, when he realizes he's the last one alive on the map, he totally panicks just like a human would.

If you could somehow allow for "converted" aliens to be brought into combat on X-COM's side, it would be truly cool. The psi ability alone would be well worth the trouble. Plus, you could name them! "Marvin the Martian"

#44 Guest_Pringle_*

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Posted 10 December 2002 - 10:22 AM

Ok, can't register at the moment coz my school's computers wont let me... :angry:

What about if you could capture sectoids and then try your own cross-breeding experiments to create secto-sapiens or something...

They could be a bit weaker than humans but have the ability to use psychic powers without the need for a psi-amp... :aliencool:

Thats a thought actually; in X-Com1 they tell you about the aliens attempts at cross breeding, etc but you never actually encounter any of the half-breeds...

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 01:45 AM

You encounter the cross-breeds in X-Com Apoc... And those half-sectoid type humans are weaker and superior in psi. And yes, I think such species should exist (or come to exist) as the remake takes shape.

#46 War_Lord

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 01:48 AM

Arrghh.. in case anyone was wondering, that was me that just posted (without remembering to log in, as usual).

I also wanted to mention that while it would probably be just as likely to crossbreed something like a Muton maybe, I think it just seems cooler to crossbreed with sectoids because it seems more "real" to me. I dunno, maybe I'm crazy, but I think the idea of something like a half-sectiod could blend in more with society.

#47 Guest_Pringle_*

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 07:27 AM

Yeah, yeah, still haven't had a chance to register...

Anyway; I believe it does say somewhere that Sectoids are the only species that can directly cross-breed with humans, however it says nothing about gene splicing >:)

Once enough tech has been researched; for example 'alien cloning chambers' and 'alien surgery' you could perhaps try to research a 'genetics lab' where you could take DNA samples from a live alien prisoner (alien dies in process just to make it a little harder) then try to splice the DNA with a live soldier; their should be a high risk of the soldier dying (genetics is highly experimental); say for example:
60% - soldier dies.
25% - soldier is 'wounded' and must spend 1 month recovering.
15% - soldier is mutated into a cross-breed.

The big question would be... do you cross breed your best soldier to make a powerful cross breed or do you cross breed a weak soldier so that death isn't as big a problem (while not for the team as a whole anyway).

Maybe some aliens could be harder to splice with so the %'s could change.

Anyway this would require a lot of testing to make sure the new units are balanced; they shouldn't be too good or humans will become obsolete.

PS. I do know about the half-sectoids in Apoc, I just meant that the aliens are the ones that started all the cross breeding experiments and you don't even see them in XC1.

#48 margant

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 10:06 AM

Just so that you know. DNA of already existing creator can not be altered (i..e. Spider man is bogus) you can only cross-breed the DNA in the new lifeform that you grow or develop. Thusfar altering XCOM soldier's DNA would mean that we

1. Either have to create new kids that are cross-breed of sectoids and humans
2. Grow grown-ups (hm.. not sure if this is posible)
3. Just drop it because it might be to unreal

#49 Devatar

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 11:00 AM

Actually, if we plan on placing this story at a later timeline, like 50 years or so, we can incorporate nanotechnology into it. This would allow us to make hybrids out of our pre-existing soldiers without all the mess. :)

Plus, we can use nanotechnology as a basis for medikits and other cool stuff.
Love is crap, made up by sick people to torture others.

#50 margant

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 12:16 PM

Hm .. I kinda like the idea of hybrid human-robot more then human alien, there is something in what you are saying Devatar.