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#101 miceless

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 06:24 AM

The exact mechanics could be figured out, but i would say that most of the xcom 1 weapons would not work under water. Thats part of the fun, you would have to research new weapons, armor, equipment, and craft. Prolongs the game!
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#102 dipstick

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 08:43 AM

I think you got the wrong end of my stick here.....

I was on about BOTH sets of aliens to start. They would battle EACH OTHER as well as XCOM. It could prove veeerry interesting. I will be having a long chat with you Miceless about the programming angle. Just let me trawl through a few books. Then I will able to modify stuff to actual sightings!! :naughty:
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#103 dipstick

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 08:45 AM

Oh and for a 300th post!!!!

The weapons I will heavily modify as well; I will keep you guessing on that front. ;)
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#104 miceless

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 09:57 AM

The two sets of aliens could still fight each other if you want them to. I just think that you should control the time that the second set show up.
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#105 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 12:47 PM

research triggered, soon as you make X technology they start appearing.. kinda like PSI, since thats when the game got easy when you had mind control... they sense the increased brain waves? almost like a distress beacon :huh?: i mean this way the newbies wont be overwhelmed by it... and for harder difficulties it can be lower on the tech, like for super human it could be instant, or expierenced could be when u get plasma? lots to go with ^_^

#106 miceless

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 12:58 PM

Yeah, research triggered could work well. Good idea. Whatever topic we choose Im sure we can think up some reason why they suddenly appear.
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#107 j'ordos

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 01:25 PM

Maybe the appearance of Ethereals on earth? Their powerful psychic emanations alert or awake or whatever the underwater dwelling alie... I mean, disciples of Cthulhu :wink: .
Or, since they were preparing for an invasion of terran soil too, they have to speed up their plans because of the Martian alien invasion, and meanwhile protect their interests against the no-good-aliens from Mars.
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#108 miceless

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 01:29 PM

Both good ideas.

Is the battle between the aliens a truth from the original, or are you all making that up to make it more interesting.

Edited by miceless, 06 August 2003 - 01:30 PM.

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#109 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 01:31 PM

this will stop "cheating" if some one figures out " oh look if i dont research... psi then i dont get attacked by mr tuna"... this way the game will trigger the attack no matter what since etherals will always come

Is the battle between the aliens a truth from the original, or are you all making that up to make it more interesting.


i think its a little of both.. any one able to clear this up?

Edited by Jesus Escariut, 06 August 2003 - 01:33 PM.


#110 j'ordos

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 01:33 PM

I think we're making it all up, since the aliens in TFTD were awakened by the Ethereals on purpose, IIRC (no, it didn't happen like in the Xcom strips -_- )
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#111 Aosar

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 02:53 PM

Maybe the appearance of Ethereals on earth? Their powerful psychic emanations alert or awake or whatever the underwater dwelling alie... I mean, disciples of Cthulhu.


Otherwize good, but there is the point that; only Cthulhu himself - not his desciples - lays asleep... "That is not dead that can eternal lie, upon strange eons even death may die..." <- The quote about Cthulhu...

Hmm, how Lovecraftian will we make of TFTD, if we make it as a part of Xenocide?
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#112 miceless

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 02:58 PM

I think we're making it all up, since the aliens in TFTD were awakened by the Ethereals on purpose, IIRC (no, it didn't happen like in the Xcom strips -_- )

What? You mean it wasnt Commander Tommy? ^_^

Aosar, what do you mean by lovecraftian?
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#113 Aosar

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:04 PM

Aosar, what do you mean by lovecraftian?


How based on Cthulhu mythos... Lovecraftian, ya know; H.P. Lovecraft, author of Call of Cthulhu(the RPG by the same name is based on the Cthulhu mythos, but isn't the same as the novel), maker of the mythos.
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#114 j'ordos

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:18 PM

I think it'd be cool :D And having a supreme enemy that can put up a fight would help alot too -_-

Edited by j'ordos, 06 August 2003 - 03:18 PM.

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#115 miceless

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:22 PM

Aosar, what do you mean by lovecraftian?


How based on Cthulhu mythos... Lovecraftian, ya know; H.P. Lovecraft, author of Call of Cthulhu(the RPG by the same name is based on the Cthulhu mythos, but isn't the same as the novel), maker of the mythos.

Never heard of it.

Night. Time for bed. :zzzzz:
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#116 Aosar

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:24 PM

If Cthulhu would be the enemy, we would lose, IIRC when you give enough a beating to Cthulhu he turns into mist and runs away... That is the RPG only though...

And having a supreme enemy that can put up a fight would help alot too.


Shuddup boe, yah 'now nutting 'bout Cthulhu!
While Cthulhu sleeps he still controls his minions and they aren't much to play with. And when Cthulhu wakes, it's pretty much over then...

By the by, do you know what Cthulhu looks like?
Well if you don't to summ it up; Cthulhu is like a fat ugly guy with a face like a squid and with wings. Exept the fact that Cthulhu is humongous!

Never heard of it.


You're missing out a lot...

Well, after a bit of research and scouting on the internet... I present to you, the statue of Cthulhu!

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Edited by Aosar, 06 August 2003 - 03:40 PM.

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#117 j'ordos

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:26 PM

If Cthulhu would be the enemy, we would lose, IIRC when you give enough a beating to Cthulhu he turns into mist and runs away... That is the RPG only though...

And having a supreme enemy that can put up a fight would help alot too.


Shuddup boe, yah 'now nutting 'bout Cthulhu!
While Cthulhu sleeps he still controls his minions and they aren't much to play with. And when Cthulhu wakes, it's pretty much over then...

By the by, do you know what Cthulhu looks like?
Well if you don't to summ it up; Cthulhu is like a fat ugly guy with a face like a squid and with wings. Exept the fact that Cthulhu is humongous!

We would base it on that, not replicate it the die-hard way :rolleyes:
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#118 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:31 PM

man and all this time i thought chtulu was just a song by metallica :rock:

so would he be like the giant thumping brain from ufo, except he actually moves in the game... mebe posses ur guys? ... would make it harder then the brain... 1 shot kill... IMHO i think both games were TOOOOOOOO easy to beat.. i mean all that time your building up you get your super squad, you send them out, you shoot the boss, game over you win... i mean come on people :cussing:

#119 demich

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:35 PM

Hmm instead of reserch trigger we can put a score trigger. When score will reach certain value the "t'leth aliens" will start to appear. But how to explain this? That's easy. "mars aliens" will find out that humanity has became a real threat to them so The Brain will decide to communicate with T'Leth systems and activate them. But something will go wrong (connection lost? :devillaugh: ) and T'Leth will wake up but "T'Leth brain" will gain no new orders(because of connection lost ;) from Mars Brain so he will try to fulfil his previous orders - colonize blue planet. AAAAA Cthulu is coming!
( Sorry for my english <_< )

#120 Aosar

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:43 PM

TFTD borrows, oh so much from Cthulhu. T'Leth is clearly a deprivation of R'Lyeh, the place where Cthulhu sleeps...
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#121 j'ordos

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:45 PM

The designers did think they were better at it though: (quoting tentaculat description) 'Not even the depths of a Lovecraftian nightmare could have spawned [the Tentaculat]' ^_^
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#122 Aosar

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:51 PM

The designers did think they were better at it though: (quoting tentaculat description) 'Not even the depths of a Lovecraftian nightmare could have spawned [the Tentaculat]'


Dunno, the Tentaculat was powerfull, but it could be killed, Cthulhu, that makes you feel like an insect. Like you have no power over your eventuall destiny. And Cthulhu is so hideously ugly that it twists your stomach!

In fact IIRC in the Cthulhu mythos there is a demon that can turn you into a zombie...

Hmm, I'll give you a MiGo now...

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#123 j'ordos

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 03:55 PM

The designers did think they were better at it though: (quoting tentaculat description) 'Not even the depths of a Lovecraftian nightmare could have spawned [the Tentaculat]' ^_^

I did say: 'the designers', not me :D
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#124 Aosar

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 04:03 PM

Yeah, but I just pointed out that the Tentaculat was a bretty weak to be a Lovecraftian horror... Not too bad as an alien enemy tho...

To close my Cthulhu pic postings, an elder sign, only thing that can bind a creature like Cthulhu... IIRC that is...

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#125 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 06 August 2003 - 06:36 PM

Yeah, but I just pointed out that the Tentaculat was a bretty weak to be a Lovecraftian horror...

They didn't seem weak to me!
For starters, they could fly, on superhuman could take a hvy thermal lance and then molest your guys, and in the gold edition could hurt your tanks! Forget taking them on with anything less than sonic cannons.

Anyway, Cthulhu may be invincible, but we don't have to make our xtftd imatation like that. He could just take a lot of blaster bombs to kill! [actually disruptor pulse torpedos] but, a one hit kill? I don't know about that, but maby a amped up heavy plasma might be more appropiate.

EDIT: Now that I look at it, Cthulhu's statue looks a lot like an alien (from the alien movies) which was also based on Lovecraft's works. Just look at that things long head!

Edited by Cpl. Facehugger, 06 August 2003 - 06:39 PM.

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#126 Aosar

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Posted 07 August 2003 - 09:19 AM

They didn't seem weak to me!
For starters, they could fly, on superhuman could take a hvy thermal lance and then molest your guys, and in the gold edition could hurt your tanks! Forget taking them on with anything less than sonic cannons.


Well, yeah, not weak on the gameplay department. I didn't really make myself clear on that, my bad...

What I ment was, that it didn't have a design horrible enough to overcome true Lovecraftian horror... Mostly visual design, it looked too much like a possible animal, in TFTD. But I think that in 3D we can soup it up to be a true Lovecraftian(-style) horror...
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#127 dipstick

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Posted 07 August 2003 - 09:50 AM

umm, I am glad I am doing my research, I have just touched on Lovecraft and stuff. Very interesting stuff, what I can understand of it.

Also, I was NOT on about T'leth.

I am on about a full blown alien civil war on Earth.

The gillmen, and whoever else I can think of putting with them (probably new race) have the objective of signing pacts with 5 countries. They will also fiercely attack any other UFOs they find.
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#128 j'ordos

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Posted 07 August 2003 - 11:04 AM

EDIT: Now that I look at it, Cthulhu's statue looks a lot like an alien (from the alien movies) which was also based on Lovecraft's works. Just look at that things long head!

Wasn't the alien from, well, 'Alien' a design from Giger? And if I'm not mistaken it was based on a tiny deep sea amphipod, called Phronima. Here's a pic of it:

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Edited by j'ordos, 07 August 2003 - 11:04 AM.

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#129 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 07 August 2003 - 07:19 PM

Creepy, and yes the alien in the movie was based on a Lovecraft painting. Or maby it was Geiger, but I thought it was Lovecraft, of course I could be wrong...

Also, I really like dipstick's story, what with the aliens fighting each other. I think it is cool why the aliens fight too.

I didn't think that the tentaculat looked like an animal, It looked more like an enormous, multi-tentacled, flying brain. (To me at least.)

Edited by Cpl. Facehugger, 08 August 2003 - 07:36 AM.

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#130 dipstick

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 04:32 AM

j'ordos, can we stick to topic please....?

Some of us are working on constructive issues here - there does happen to be a large off-topic area just over there..... :wave:

Edited by dipstick, 08 August 2003 - 04:33 AM.

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#131 Aosar

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 09:45 AM

I didn't think that the tentaculat looked like an animal, It looked more like an enormous, multi-tentacled, flying brain.


Well, maybe, but still while it looked wierd, it didn't look like it shouldn't exist. And it was just a beast like the Cryssaloid...
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#132 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 11:34 AM

Creepy, and yes the alien in the movie was based on a Lovecraft painting. Or maby it was Geiger, but I thought it was Lovecraft, of course I could be wrong...


to clear this up the alien, the planet, the alien ship, was ALL based on work by H.R. Giger , Giger even built a large part of the set for the first movie, he is one screwed up guy, i like him! :devillaugh:

and back on topic now.

will the aliens be able to actually do tactical battles agianst each other, under water?... yea... how are we gonna work that one... ive always wondered what a reaper would look like in a giant under water suit LOL... i know it would be easy to do the above water battles, but that underwater tactical seems tricky... maybe this will be why the underwater bugs will become the dominate threat in the game when they show up, cause the above water bugs cant fight them... :wink:

#133 miceless

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Posted 08 August 2003 - 10:36 PM

Well, the humans nominally cant do battles underwater without help, so why could the aliens not develop some form on underwater suits? That way, you can have battles underwater.
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#134 warhamster

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 01:27 AM

Hehe...

Why don't we throw in the ghost dimension invasion as well. hehe. the arrival of Goser. All heck is about to break loose.

But I like the idea of an ancient menace coming out of the ocean. Maybe something along the lines of two ancient adversaries in a battle that ended in a draw. Both go to rest. and now the aliens return looking to pick a fight, but find the pathetic humans have spawned and no powerful ocean adversaries in sight. That would explain why they haven't sent anything in bulk.

yadayadayada...

#135 j'ordos

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 03:06 AM

Well, the aliens live on Mars, and they don't seem to need special suits, so why wouldn't they be able to live under water as well (at least some of them)
Then again, humans on Mars didn't need suits either :wacko:
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#136 dipstick

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 03:20 AM

Hmmm, well, I was thinking along the lines of less races. From what I have seen on xcomtftd.com there are MASSES of races. If we discard some of them, and merge the two together, then that should be better. eg TFTD aliens v (gillmen) I will have to think of a name for that side :D
and XCOM 1 aliens v us. But then that doesn't really work. It should be:

Aliens v XCOM and gillmen v XCOM

UFOs and USOs get shot down by both alien groups, but no battlescape takes place - they cannot be bothered. Of course, that is where XCOM steps in.... :naughty:
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#137 Aosar

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 08:50 AM

Why don't we throw in the ghost dimension invasion as well. hehe. the arrival of Goser. All heck is about to break loose.


The name IIRC was "Gozer"... Besides, who needs some geezer, when you have Nyarlathotep( :huh: or was it Nyatlarhotep, never seem to get that one right...)

But I like the idea of an ancient menace coming out of the ocean. Maybe something along the lines of two ancient adversaries in a battle that ended in a draw.


Hmm, either you know the Mythos, or that is quite the coinsidence... 'Cause the "Great Old Ones," - those are Cthulhu and some of his buddies - fighted a war, before the fall of R'Lyeh, with the "Flying Polyps" - who, like all respectable mythos creatures, have many mouths, eyes and tentacles...
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#138 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 12:33 PM

Well, I think that if the mars bugs shot down say a [gillman] dreadnought that they would attack it. Then when you add xcom into the mix you get great three way tactical battles on land and under the water!

Were the flying polyp things good or evil? For that matter was Cthulhu evil? Maby the underwater aliens aren't evil, they just think we are in league with their enemies, the evil martian aliens!

Edited by Cpl. Facehugger, 09 August 2003 - 12:35 PM.

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#139 Aosar

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 01:31 PM

Were the flying polyp things good or evil? For that matter was Cthulhu evil?


Well, both actually(were evil), thought that Earth wasn't big enough for the both of 'em...

Maby the underwater aliens aren't evil, they just think we are in league with their enemies, the evil martian aliens!


But, if they follow the action on land, they should pretty clearly see that "we" are not in league with the martians...
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#140 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 01:35 PM

Maby they don't follow the action on land? I mean they dwell on the ocean bottom, I don't think they get cnn. :D
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#141 j'ordos

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 01:35 PM

They see we are under attack, and decide to wait a bit and see who wins. Once it's clear we're gaining the upper hand on the aliens they decide to act now, 'cause we probably ain't going to be weaker later. They don't team up with the others and oppose them as well, but their main target are us humans.
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#142 warhamster

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 02:26 PM

Maybe they're not here to fight us. We just happened to be in the way. We're kinda like the nuisance that becomes big enough to bring both sides to ruin. Get what I mean?

The aliens came here, really to just attack the aquatoids. They see us and do funky sh!t just for the heck of it. but they really focus attention on the aquaguys which allow us enough distraction to become powerful enough to fight both of them back.

Which races an interesting idea. What if we can research from the aquatoids tech that are effective against the aliens, and that we research tech from the aliens that are extra effective against the aquatoids? Kinda makes sense if you ask me.

In a V.1++++ we can even put in diplomacy play.

#143 j'ordos

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 02:32 PM

Diplomacy... Lets bring back the Snakemen from the evil Etherial tyrants :naughty:
If we free them from their slavery they'll be glad to help us :devillaugh:
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#144 warhamster

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 02:38 PM

Hehe...

Sergeant Trigger Happy the human joins forces with hormonal Chrysallid against the Ethereals.

But seriously, I think the implication is that the snakemen have been subjucated so long ago that freedom is as alien a concept to them as celatid's usefulness is to us.

#145 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 03:11 PM

Well, that depends on wether the chryssalid can differentiate between allies and enemies, Warhamster. If it can, then mars will be populated by chryssalids before long... :D

Maby, I suppose that it depends on how well the snakemen were treated by the etherials, If reasonably well, then they wouldn't revolt against their masters, however, if the Etherials treated them harshly then they would probably help you. Or maby, they intentionally fight poorly because they don't want to help their masters. Kind of like how the S'pht in marathon practically let you blow them away.

And the ctd seems to think that they think reasonably like humans, so they would probably rebel the first chance they got. Maby the Etherials excert direct psychic control over all of their slave races? Like their relationship with the Mutons, but with all of their slave races.

Perhaps we could have rebel factions of aliens who would help us free their races from the overmind and Etherials? (oops I mean Ammenomites) [sp?]

Edited by Cpl. Facehugger, 09 August 2003 - 03:13 PM.

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#146 Aosar

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 03:19 PM

Like their relationship with the Mutons, but with all of their slave races.


What is their relationship with the Mutons by the way, I haven't seen a CTD about the Mutons...

Diplomacy... Lets bring back the Snakemen from the evil Etherial tyrants
If we free them from their slavery they'll be glad to help us


Not a bad idea, would greatly add to the storyline or rather give it a major new twist... It's like a sandwitch, there is the potentiality of a sandwitch, but you have to actually get up from your butt to make it...
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#147 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 03:41 PM

Great quote!

Anyway, In the original xcom, the Mutons were psionically connected to the etherials. Essientially the mutons had little/no free will. Also, if the psionic link was broken, then the Muton died. Don't know about the etherials though.

And I would really like to liberate the poor aliens from the clutches of the slave driving overmind!

At any rate I think that somewhere down the road between version 1 and version omega, Tftd elements should be added to xenocide.

I have an idea, :idea: How about the underwater aliens are more organic, and rely on technology less than the martians? So instead of having all of this underwater tech, they could rely more on natural built-in abilities. (like for instance, spitting ink for a squid alien, or tentaculat tentacles, things of that nature. Anyway just a brain fart.
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#148 warhamster

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 03:49 PM

hmmm... interesting points. What if a few individual aliens join in xcom in an effort to liberate their breathren? That would be cool. Having a muton fight side by side with your men. I guess this'll have to be extremely rare. otherwise we'll tug along aliens all the time.

I like idea of the water aliens tech actually being more bio-weapon based. They're at par with the tech levels of space aliens. but instead of specializing in physics, they specialized in biology.

This was the concept of the Invid in robotech.

#149 dipstick

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 04:08 PM

Sounds interesting, but that would be a heck of a lot more work.
The diplomacy thing I was thinking about, sort of like Apoc. But then, both aliens are against us....!
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#150 warhamster

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Posted 09 August 2003 - 04:16 PM

Well, actually, alien weapons will be at par with aqualien (i just had to try to come with a more convenient term than aquatic aliens) weapons. Their flavor text will basically make the difference. Although I do imageine certain aliens being more vulnerable to sonic weaponry. Something that can actually be tackled with alien and aqualien species descriptions.