Posted 19 May 2003 - 05:11 AM
I can't imagine EVERY (no matter with strong or weak army) self respecting country wouldnt respond to a attack, even from aliens!?
My idea is why not add soldiers to Terror sites?Of course only the large ones like military bases or capitals.The soldiers will have no armor, only basic weapons (rifles and pistols), just "Snap shot" and low TU's.This will both help to boost the realism of the game and will also help the player at the initial stages of the game, when it's hard to cope with Terror sites.Besides I think it sound better than "armed civillians force".What do you think?
Posted 19 May 2003 - 05:25 AM
Maybe instead of giving troops, they could give maybe 1 guy with, say, explosive ammunition and basic armour. And then, say, he is killed, that country would give u less money. Or maybe give u some extra weapons that would be given back at the end of the battle.
Posted 19 May 2003 - 07:41 AM
Initial terror sites should be tough, I'm not surprised when I lose 2 or 3 (or more) soldiers during one early in the game. If it's made easier, it wouldn't be a terror site, just a ho-hum site, right?
Posted 21 May 2003 - 11:32 AM
The armies ARE giving them men and weaponry (for a fee... again, they are fighting their own war).
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Posted 21 May 2003 - 11:46 AM
This concept could take off in a multiplayer version though, say where you have 2 players who are both on earth, you could say each country you control requires a base for defense. Then the players could be fighting each other as well as aliens, as you try try to not only repel the aliens but take over control of the entire in the process. More of a multiplayer mod I guess.
Posted 21 May 2003 - 01:35 PM
Posted 22 May 2003 - 07:01 AM
Posted 22 May 2003 - 09:51 AM
Posted 22 May 2003 - 10:44 AM
Posted 22 May 2003 - 02:39 PM
Posted 22 May 2003 - 07:34 PM
Posted 22 May 2003 - 10:12 PM
Breunor Posted on May 22 2003, 12:50 PM
So do they tag along until you find a weapon they can use? Since you have to research even laser weapons, it would be expected that only xcom soldiers could use them, right? So the left over guys could only use standard weapons like pistol, rifle, autocannon? If they can use laser weapons, then they should be able to use plasma as well. Unless they have the same capabilities as your regular soldiers, I just don't see what use they would have. What part am I missing in the picture?
the soldiers will have only basic weapons (including granades) and why not kevlar vest?Weaker than Personal Armor but thougher than nothing (this is could be available to XCom too).
EDIT:The soldiers may appear only if you're doing bad in the beggining
revenant4 Posted on May 22 2003, 09:40 PM
OK I believe that the X-COM force is Secretive but who says other countries don't have their own secret armies???...everyone thinks the US is the only Force that has undercover agents or secret military units...I believe that other countries aiding the X-COM cause is very feasable and it would be a nice addition to have different races that are skilled in different ways depending on their surroundings during their upbringing...for example...Russians might have advantages in a snowy atmosphere...teh US might have an advantage in a Plains are...the list could go on and on...just a thought
Thats VERY good idea.Why not make the nationality of a agent boost some of his abilitys.Lets say the Russians are strong in winter terrain (Russia) and cityfight (Stalingrad)(more TU's in those lokations) , Americans (US) in plains (wild west) and night combat (SEALS, SWAt, ect.) (same as Russians), Chineese and Japanees in hand-to-hand combat and more stamina (martial arts), Europeans (like me ) in forests (tipycal for Europe) and shooting (snipers during WW2)...so what do you think?Is this possible?
Posted 23 May 2003 - 03:55 AM
what about equipping civs with pistols and the like... if in Real Life an alien invasion was at hand, you bet your donkey i would buy anything i could get my hands on, from M16s to RPGs....
Posted 23 May 2003 - 07:23 AM
Now if you used androids like I've heard were in Apoc, all you'd need are some overweight nintendo kids from any country to control them via a FPS interface, and the aliens wouldn't stand a chance. That's a stereotype being scientifically proven in the US, probably everywhere else too.
Edited by Breunor, 23 May 2003 - 07:26 AM.
Posted 26 May 2003 - 01:58 AM
Posted 26 May 2003 - 04:40 AM
Posted 26 May 2003 - 06:50 AM
When you get to the level of training of these guys there isn't a terrain they aren't trained for. It pretty well documented the levels and diversity of the Navy seals training and yeah it's tough but there are some spec forces that make the Seals look like children.
Spetnatz for a start train in the wide variety of weather that Russia has to offer. The marines over here in the UK take potential members up into the harshest weather we have which can be pretty unpleasant before taking them up to places that make heck look like a holiday destination. They aren't the toughest though.
The SAS take potential recruits and throw them through the wettest coldest places in the UK (you've probably heard of Dartmoor, but we have worse places in the highlands of Scotland) and expose them to operations without food or shelter for weeks at a time before getting them to run up mountains with full packs on. That's just to see if they've got the right stuff to join. Once they've been told they can join, it's off to the Jungles of Burma, which is about the worst environment on the planet. The dropout rate is about 33% on the first day of training and remember that these guys are already in the military.
My point is that the soldiers that are bought in the game will be the absolute best the world has offer and trained in every environment we have to offer. The'yre trained to fight against any other human on the planet, the only problem is that they won't be fighting against humans so they're effectiveness is limited.
As for flexibility the soldiers are totally under your control and will do exactly as you say. No Ai or anything getting in the way, you can't get much more flexible than that
At the end of the day it's the limitation of the player rather than the troops that makes the game tough. I've taken 14 fresh recruits with rifles and baten a freshly fully stocked Snakeman base on Superhuman before and I've had my arse handed to me on scout ships when I first played the game on easy. The beauty of xcom is that the player decided where the troops come from. How effective they are is also entirely in the hands of the player.
If you go adding this and that to the mix you lose that, delicate perfect balance that xcom had.
Posted 26 May 2003 - 08:23 AM
And how do you explain that all soldier starts on the same skill levels? Simple, all the guns in the game are protype, brand-new guns that no-one has used before. And no-one has of course used the aliens tech, so it only comes natural that no-one is skilled in using those. Higher skill with a certain gun type would result in better accuracity and the soldier spends less TU using the gun.
And I would like to tie in the countries even more. A hostile country would not allow you to build a base on their territory (don't remember if this was in the original) and a allied nation could give access to their radar equipment.
Posted 26 May 2003 - 01:16 PM
I'm not trying to pee on your campfire, IMO I just don't see what the benefit is to doing something like this. But that's the beauty of opensource, you can modify the code a million ways to make your own custom game. Well, I can't as I hardly know html code, let alone any programming code.
Posted 26 May 2003 - 02:46 PM
I did wrote "weapon and/or weapon types". The types could be pistols, rifles, SMGs, Heavy.... or Normal, Laser, Plasma.
"If I had a sniper who couldn't pick up a pistol or heavy gun and use it effectively, I'd get rid of him, he's a liability in the battle."
I'm not talking about a HUGE bonus here, just a little something to give the soldier an extra edge. Maybe you should be able to control the soldiers training more, so that you could specialise on different weapon types. Also, I think that specialits would give the soldiers more personality and make the gameplay more interesting.
"You can't make the accuracy higher than normal with the preferred weapon, or you unbalance the game."
Ehhhh.... have you ever played an RPG? Where you become more and more skilled over time? If your statment is true, every kind of progress in a RPG would unbalance the game. Of course, you would have to put a stop to just how skilled you could get and the rate in which your learn (a untrained soldier gets skilled faster than a skilled soldier gets masterful) but I just can't see the problem with soldier that gets more skilled the more they do something.
Posted 26 May 2003 - 07:30 PM
Posted 26 May 2003 - 09:45 PM
Say that you're accuracy starts like it always does, at some random number like xcom. Then as you use the weapon, any benefit is only for that class weapon only (pistol, rifle, heavy), but doesn't increase any faster than it originally did. When you pick up a new class of weapon, you're back at square one. When you go go to a new tech level, accuracy drops 5-10%, and then increases like it normally would. So if you're at 75 for laser rifle, plasma rifle starts at 65, heavy plasma starts at your original number, say it was 50. The skill doesn't increase any faster than the original, where all weapon skills increased together. The only change in game balance is that it's harder for the player.
I could see that being a workable option. If that was your idea from the start, let me apologize for not understanding what you meant. The way I originally read the idea was that on top of the regular increases for all weapons, an additional increase would be given for that particular weapon, making you better than you would have been in the original system. That was a stupid mistake on my part.
So let me recant my previous misgivings of your idea, I think it's wonderful, and could be an option for harder play. Maybe it could be worked into the superhuman difficulty, or the hardest level of the game.
Posted 27 May 2003 - 12:54 AM
I should have added that I didn't think that should be a addition to the usual stat. The way I wrote it, it could have meant anything.
Hmm, I would like it added on all levels of difficuly though, but let's discuss that some more.
Posted 27 May 2003 - 07:12 AM
Posted 27 May 2003 - 09:34 PM
...now if anybody doesn't mind lets got on-topic.Should we add soldiers or not?
As posted here before why not make them surrviviors of their unit which was dispached to respond to the alien aggression.Of course without the skill, training, and tecnology of X-Com most of them are being wiped-out.Of course few survive and when X-Com strike team arrives they join you...This just gave me an idea.They could be on the same level as your soldiers at the beggining of the game (I mean their stats) but have very low bravery.
Posted 28 May 2003 - 04:30 PM
Posted 28 November 2004 - 11:27 PM
1) Almost no body knows X-COM exists. They are shadows, deja-vue, never existed.
2) Recruitment is through infiltrators in every government, those men mysteriously disappear and are X-COM for life.
3) Funding is basically money disappearing in a hole and appearing in X-COM hands.
These soldiers abilities and equipment are far beyond any conventional Earth troops.
In terror missions local police will probably try and fire on aliens until they panic because they do not drop. They will not fire on humans attacking the aliens. Much lower stats versus humans, although they can buy light pistols and such.
Also, I think you should be able to sell Terran weapon technology, and that technology would proliferate. Cops and any military personnel(only if you use channels to get troops to aline landing or crash spots) would be using those weapons and you could buy them.
Posted 03 December 2004 - 12:45 AM
For the first few game years anyway, I think these entities should eventually have full on access to the standard (to X-COM's perspective anyway) Earth gear. The cops would have access to all your pistols, rifles, flares, stun rods, medkits & perhaps motion trackers etc. Militaries could get all that plus all that high explosive Terrain ordinance, though maybe not seen as much.
Later maybe each group may get a spackling of laser tech thrown their way, but in any case, I believe it should mainly be Earth origin if not Earth developed stuff. But spread out the interval adequately in game time terms so we could see that progression of aquisition.
The only exception I might give any group besides X-COM to tap into alien tech would be rival criminal orgs or militaries that have been courting an alien alliance. For all of this though, I've simply been going on the notion of "Well, anything that's sellable has to wind up somewhere."
Let's just see some pleasant and not so pleasant ramifications for selling anything
Posted 03 December 2004 - 09:15 AM
Later in the game, those countries that have given you the most money can start using tech you've researched, though in very small amounts and much later than you started using it. The amount that would be used by AI human defense forces would depend on how much you have sold on the open market to fund operations.
This would be mostly for "flavor", and not to really make the player's life easier (though it would be cool to see a SWAT team take out a Snakeman, only to panic and run in fear from the Chryssalid! :o )
Posted 03 December 2004 - 10:36 AM
It takes whatever company buys the tech a certain amount of time to integrate what you sell them. You get paid a lump sum at the beginning, but must let 10 or 20 scientists be consultants for a month or two. You also get paid royalties for the number of weapons sold(worldwide).
Companies will do derivative research after the initial, so you may want to be cautious about just selling Alien Alloys without selling the upgraded Earth Pistols, Rifels, etc.
I would also like to think that Alien stuff you sold ends up in the hands of Under-world, who fight aliens in certain cities(Hong Kong) or elite military and body gaurd units that gaurd the leaders aliens try to infect. Also, I would like to think alien pact brothers get a ton of alien gear for their normal troops, who fight you if they see you and ID you(takes about 20 turns).
Posted 03 December 2004 - 11:01 AM
For instance you just touched on that briefly when you discussed derivative research they have to do for example to work with anything that needs alien alloys. That is to say, its not enough to have plasma pistols proliferate all that much or too quickly if you did not sell that many, but also did not sell much elerium (for the clip) or alien alloys.
The way it could work in practice though, with relation to those comapnies efforts is you could have a prompt by the consulting scientist of yours who asks you for the plans, specs, or samples of the next thing in line. It'd be up to the commander to accept or decline the request, or even to pull that consultant (or fire him) if you felt that the company had lax security or something (you started to see the wrong groups using tech you released to that firm).
Maybe there could be supplimental items to track for the scientists, such as royalty fees suddenly climbing for no reason. Perhaps he's in it for the dough or has his own agenda of some sort. In that case, fire his butt and assign a new consultant. So not only might you have the consulting company demand for specs, plans or samples to weigh in to decide to release or not, you add in that twist that your scientist consultant might be turncoat for the sake of lots of money.
The only aspect to all this that I'm not sure should be in is the way comapnies got infiltrated like Apoc. Dont' get me wrong, I think raid missions would be fun, but in this case, it might be easier (if not just hurtful to you financially by doing this...) pulling the rug out from under that company to begin with if too much stuff leaked into the public realm.
Posted 03 December 2004 - 01:04 PM
Posted 03 December 2004 - 04:00 PM
So in essense, X-COM would be attempting to help Earth countries help themselves (those on best terms anyway but one can't always control that w/fluctuations in political climates) to a reasonable technological degree. But they'd still need to be careful about selling anything it considers blacklisted goods (elerium, UFO navigation, construction, power sources to name a few).
Although one could speculate too that later on if those ideas of using alien ships was implimented for your side, you may very well have to decide to contract out some elements of the construction processes for some of it. After all, the confinements of X-COM base layout does not necessarily make for good testing ground, even though its as well stored there as anything hiding in Area 51.
Posted 03 December 2004 - 05:39 PM
Posted 04 December 2004 - 08:03 AM
Posted 04 December 2004 - 09:58 AM
Hmm... How about if you sold tech that doesn't require elerium then you'd eventually see it on the market being and you would no longer have to manufacture it (some corporation reverse engineered the tech and figured out how to make it.). So after a certain point (this should take a while) you might see lasers on the market. And if you never sold heavy laser, but you sold laser rifles, you should eventually see heavy lasers being sold simply because the corporation advanced the technology on there own (though this presents a problem, you can't use it because you haven't researched it. which is retarded. C'mon, if you pick up a gun, even an alien gun, it still works by pulling a trigger. There's no research required. Maybe you have horrible aim, don't know how to compensate for recoil, etc. but that's training, not research.)
Exactly! I imagine that if a corp researched it you would get a training manual to explain how you could fire it.
Step One - Point at alien you want dead
Step Two - Pull Trigger
You could concentrate on alien techs and let Earth corps do all the weapon and laser upgrades, but you give up royalties on weapons sales(lucrative).
Posted 04 December 2004 - 08:08 PM