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#1 Syntax Error

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 04:22 AM

Why can't we have some aliens in our team?
I remember that Mutons are remote-controlled by a Sectoid or an Ethereal, then if we capture one alive, we should use it in our team, the muton is probably nearest to human morphology than any other alien and he could wear the clasical Energy Suit.

#2 colgan35

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 04:33 AM

That sounds like a cool idea!

#3 mikker

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 07:52 AM

hmmmm, that sounds like a good idea. but i think it unbalances the human-alien tech. by givving human acces to aliens, they can have ALL alien tech, PLUS their own human tech. humans are outnumbered, but for how long?

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#4 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 08:38 AM

I am completely opposed to using aliens in your team. It takes away from the Humans vs Evil Aliens feel, which I feel was essiential to Xcom. Plus, how would you feed em? And where would you keep them when youre not on a mission? I don't think that the scientists will take too kindly with having to share a bunk with a chryssalid... :naughty:
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#5 Syntax Error

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 08:56 AM

I think that only Mutons could be used like mercenaries, they are made to be soldiers. They don't have really intelligence, they don't have Psi Powers, they eat meat,...
They could have the same capacities like a new recruit soldier with a lot of energy and health.
Its role would be close to the Punt forms of heavy weapons, if it is killed, the human soldiers will not panic.

#6 Breunor

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 09:14 AM

I thought of the muton as a soldier who is forced via psi as needed, but not a zombie under constant control. You'd have to totally brainwash one to get it to fight for "the enemy", and then it would require constant control via psi. And even with those limitations, the aliens should get a balancing feature. Perhaps if they take control of a soldier and can get that soldier into the transport, you lose the transport? Then if you win the fight anyways, you have X hours to get another transport there or all the remaining soldiers are killed by a new ufo? Or once the aliens capture a country, all downed ufos in that country include dozens of psi controled humans, packed with prox grenades, who can wipe you out before you get off the transport? :devillaugh:

There always has to be a balance...

Edited by Breunor, 28 November 2003 - 09:15 AM.


#7 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 09:48 AM

I feel that it takes away from the feel of the game. Plus, it would be hard to balance, hence why I don't like it.
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#8 colgan35

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 01:45 PM

Hmmmm.. so many possibilities.Considering their technology and the mindset behind it,why so hostile?Bringing one on our side seems like wishful thinking but might be fun.Is it possible to play as the aliens?!!!

#9 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 02:53 PM

V2+ will include a multiplay where you may get to play as aliens. V3+ Will most likely have an alien campaign.
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#10 Syntax Error

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 03:00 PM

It is a kind of alien segregation, you don't want to see aliens fighting in the same team than human.

Where is Nelson Mendela when we need him?

#11 CptJackSparrow

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 05:05 PM

v5+: Cooperative multiplayer:
Humans and aliens team up to fight the
ultimate uberevil.

ps: No. The overmind IS the ultimate
uberevil. So... Err...
:stupid:

Edited by CptJackSparrow, 28 November 2003 - 05:07 PM.


#12 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 06:23 PM

Actually, for v2+ I was thinking the Vaaish (see threads in story portion of workshops) would be the ultimate evil. The overmind is invading earth to get more soldiers to fight the Vaaish.
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#13 SupSuper

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 06:44 PM

isn't that having too much different types of evil in the same storyline?

too bad, now you will never know the ancient secrets of supsupers long gone avatar ;)

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#14 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 28 November 2003 - 09:51 PM

I don't think so. If all goes well, we will have three evil alien groups.
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#15 Gradea

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Posted 04 December 2003 - 06:42 PM

too much evil? no such thing! having several alien factions fighting eachother could be...interesting, especialy if you want to give xcom the ability to colonize other planets...(they get income from mining instead of country funding) but this is a major change from the very genra

#16 DendromutantX

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Posted 13 December 2003 - 05:54 PM

Back to Mutons. Dont they die when etherals lose control over them?
And didn't autopsi say that they originated on earth? If so there must be a way to find their hiding spot and conclude an alliance with them. To balance that stuff up, furious etherals will try to whipe out our new allies by bringing some genetically engeneered super aliens, who are even stronger than mutons and spitting poisonous goo all over the place and loudly explode upon dying (like hellhounds in "Magic and Mayhem")

#17 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 14 December 2003 - 08:24 AM

They did not originate on earth. They eat meat like carnivores on earth. That is all.
You are right about the constant psi link to the eths though.
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#18 websee

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Posted 06 January 2004 - 04:46 PM

ever played UFO: Afermath?
if not then do so, it is kinda stupid and ull be done in 12 hours
ever heard something of the old greys?
They are an alien species a bit different from the agressive one who hate the agressive aliens. they join you sometime late in the game of UFO: Aftermath. they can use only alien weapons, cannot wear armour, have exelent psionic skills, but move very slowly (have low energy)
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#19 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 06 January 2004 - 05:48 PM

[aftermathsp33k] The "Old Greys" are the mainstream aliens. The evil aliens are renegades who are attacking earth in order to create a super being that will allow them to defeat their nicer bretheren. [aftermathsp33k]

Personally, I cannot stand having aliens on my team. In am, they tend to get relegated to base defense.
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#20 Judge_Deadd

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Posted 15 January 2004 - 01:43 AM

V567: Pizza Hut
Aliens, humans & overmind cooperate in their own pizza business. ;)
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#21 NickJones

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Posted 18 January 2004 - 10:21 PM

If all aliens are controled by "the brain", then why would there be different factions of aliens? Is there more than one "the brain". If so, where are these other "the brain"s?

Obviously Microprose (or whoever owns X-com now) needed to keep the story line going (to make more moeny). That is usually what ruins a good story like X-Com. TFTD was a reach, but it paid off. X-com A was an even further reach, but it paid off. The rest were just too much to handle, and thus they never made a hudge impact that the first three did.

I ask this... Make the V1 (UFO clone) available with out any other stuff added.

Make a modified V2 with some of the fetures the fans want.

then from there i dont care what you do with it! go nuts.

Oh yeah, alien mercenaries wouldnt work because prolonged exposure to PSI influence damages the target. Also, when separated from "the brain" for too long, aliens will die (read it, its in the UFOpedia if you piece it all together).

#22 Puasonen

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 01:08 AM

I ask this... Make the V1 (UFO clone) available with out any other stuff added.

Make a modified V2 with some of the fetures the fans want.

then from there i dont care what you do with it! go nuts.

This is exactly what we ARE doing. So don't worry :wink:

Only few improvements will be done in version 1.0 but nothing as big as alien mercenaries for example.
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#23 DendromutantX

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 08:21 PM

Oh yeah, alien mercenaries wouldnt work because prolonged exposure to PSI influence damages the target. Also, when separated from "the brain" for too long, aliens will die (read it, its in the UFOpedia if you piece it all together).


Well aliens weren't enslaved by the brain to begin with, so my guess there are some unmodified (genetically and using implants) aliens out there, seekinng revenge for the fallen glory of their people. Plus there might be some PSI resistant races.

#24 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 19 January 2004 - 08:24 PM

Oh yeah, alien mercenaries wouldnt work because prolonged exposure to PSI influence damages the target. Also, when separated from "the brain" for too long, aliens will die (read it, its in the UFOpedia if you piece it all together).

Where are you getting the 'prolonged psi exposure' part? IIRC, there is nothing saying that in the game. And only the mutons die when seperated from their telepathic link to the etherials.
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#25 Atlas10101

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Posted 29 January 2004 - 03:28 AM

I think the IDea is sound though...of mercinary aliens...the writer that we have so far I'm sure could do something about 'technicly' explaining it eitehr way it would pry just be mutons...and they are a semi-expendable mini tank that is used for scouting and shooting (but just as tanks they suck at), but the down side is they are extremely easy to psi-amp to the other side. making them an atvanage or a possible liablity, and as you progress in the game further the liablity become greater...along with the ethereal numbers becoming greater...possibly a further thing to nerf it is to make it so you have to capure the muton alive in the first place to be able to do this making it possible but realatively impractical...and as we all know...a muton is never going to become a valueble part of the team so you can't import its stats...and it would be held in alien containment...(make a good use late game for this otherwise useless building).
simply put they would simply be there to supliment your normal troops or maybe help in base defence....
pfffttt if nothing else its always great to watch aliens die so use it as cannon-fotter which I love to say is what mutons are only good for.

#26 Blehm 98

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 01:25 PM

How about you pay them 30,000 a month, but you can get spies for alot more.
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#27 Mustang

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Posted 20 February 2004 - 04:03 PM

This is UnknownWarrior's idea , I don't want to log off:Instead of Mercinares (if you really WANT aliens on your side..) Why not be able to put an implant on a captured live alien and have the alien on your side?


#28 DwightMcNeil

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Posted 11 May 2004 - 09:37 PM

You Should be able to take over control of the implanted aliens. Perhaps install a blocker so you alone can control the muton troops.

One game I manged to take over too.....but since they weren't prisoners (couldn't knock them out..only ever captured wounded ones) I had to waste them to end the turn.

You loose troops so why can't they? Frankly I think you should be able to capture cloning facilities. You don't have to generate troops persay but maybe body parts, and skin to cut healing time down.


Though some ethical choices should be left to the players. The arguement about numbers is completely off....more often then not the aliens can field more troops then you ever can.

You need mutons to fight mutons.........

#29 Melker

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Posted 20 June 2004 - 08:45 AM

Aliens as mercenaries would probably not work. What use do they have of human money?

Controlling them for the sake of using them in combat would be higly risky and very costly:

First you need the technology == Research == $$$
Then you have the maintenance costs which would also be very high.

All in all its a very costly thing and it wouldn't gain you much but it's an interesting idea and I think we should keep as many doors open as possible. One of the coolest things about X-Com isn't the battles but rather the research, technology and science fiction of it all.

#30 Blehm 98

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Posted 22 June 2004 - 04:59 PM

Maybe their commanders set them off and now they want payback, so you help them and there you got their mercenaries
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#31 Gryx

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Posted 15 August 2004 - 04:43 AM

How about using a hybrid of human and alien genetic engineering technologies to create your own alien warriors?

The large majority of the alien races in x-com seemed to be clones or have been grown in reproduction vats and the control implants and cybernetic upgrades are surgically implanted as the alien develops.

What if the humans did the same?

After you find alien cloning equipment in an alien base or similar and finish research it a new branch of research opens up as "Genetic Engineering". The aliens would be fairly weak and uninteresting at first but futher research of things like and alien autopsys would help you progess and allow you to grow more powerful aliens.

#32 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 15 August 2004 - 06:23 AM

what about ailen rebbels who say thare on your side but have a hidden aggenda as well

Edited by alex the greater, 16 August 2004 - 07:30 AM.


#33 Paladin

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Posted 16 August 2004 - 07:02 AM

The way I see it, they're all in a hive mind of some sort, heavilly implanted with cybernetics and genetic manipulations... No easy way to turn even one of them to our side...

Perhaps once we develop PSI, but then again what's the point of using a PSI full time to control a Muton when you can bring a long a SECOND Psi in the plane...
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#34 sir_schwick

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Posted 02 December 2004 - 01:32 PM

I assume some of the free elements of the species elsewhere have discovered methods to liberate their brethren from this "matrix"(plz don't sue me) the aliens have created. Assume about three to four years in, they manage to get some scouts to Earth and try to continue that mission. At some point you either destroy them unwittingly or join forces to accelerate the process(you are elites after all).

In the meantime, you capture the right personnel and equipmetn and do the research for the option to hook up the slave species to your own 'Brain'. Of course whether to use the same enslavement techs as the aliens is an ethical debate about your mission. This simply means that you now turn captured aliens to your side the same way the aliens originally did. They are even more useful for infiltration of bases and creating confusion on battlefields.

I think the only cloneing you should be able to do is with the 'assisstance' of alien scientists and the right equipment and research. You could clone the alien warrior classes, although less efficiently and with less good soldiers(Mutons would still kick donkey). Of course you would also need the brain facilities to control them as well. I figure clones would take at least six months to mature.

#35 Snakeman

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 11:48 AM

Something else occurred to me. There are still a few alien artifacts we collect in the first game that have no further use other than to be liquidated for cash. What about lending some functionality to these?

Alien Food
Alien Habitat (at least, I think that was a relic)
Alien Entertainment

There are probably more I'm overlooking, but essentially I view these three things as fairly important, especially if we're courting the idea of utilizing live alien "help" down the road in any subsequent versions of the Xenocide.

Certainly as research topics of their own, there's a bit of room to open them up somewhat to expound on any changes. Yet you've still got to come up with another that explains how X-COM could somehow unattach either alien type from the alien's control without killing it (presuming that the alien would want this and it could be done. It may not be smart mind you, they've been brainwashed. But you may find the occasional alien actually willing to help).

Anyway, with the Mutons or any aliens for that matter, I think the habitat research coupled with entertainment and food should have some importance when weighing whether to keep any of them in containment while this is going on. What this also does is make you manage stores again, to be sure you have enough food and entertainment on hand at least (the entertainment stuff or its subsequent researched derivative could probably be modified to help rebrainwash).

#36 sir_schwick

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 01:01 PM

I kinda get the idea that they are so easy to brainwash that they wouldn't know whether their orders are really coming from the big brain or not. Imagine all you do is assume the big brains voice in their head. Once you figure out how to do that you interrupt the signal and put in your own, which is identical. Of course if the alien resistance decides to help, they will not approve of you brainwashing.

I think switching masters would not be difficult. LIberating aliens would require techs from the alien resistance.

The advantage of liberating aliens is that the alien resistance will supply you with better versions of weapons and more info. Also, liberated aliens will fight harder and can find more aliens to liberate.

#37 Snakeman

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 04:09 PM

Kinda reminds me of the Stargate show. Those lizard gut guys use another race that's capable of carrying more lizards (for more lizard gut guy leaders down the road), who are basically their main army. While they can never become part of the elite sect, they do beneift from good health and longevity just by carrying the infant lizards inside.

I didn't want to try to spell Gooahwhatever, so I went with lizard gut guys. Apologies in advance to any rabid Stargate fans :)

Anyway through the course of the show they proved they could begin to separate those infant lizards from that army without killing the host. Perhaps a similar train of thought could be applied to whatever implants some of these enemy units possess to explore the idea further.

#38 Torgen

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Posted 03 December 2004 - 05:25 PM

Something else occurred to me.  There are still a few alien artifacts we collect in the first game that have no further use other than to be liquidated for cash.  What about lending some functionality to these?

Alien Food
Alien Habitat (at least, I think that was a relic)
Alien Entertainment


Alien Surgery, instead of Habitat. :alientalk:

#39 T-1

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Posted 04 December 2004 - 08:17 AM

Kinda reminds me of the Stargate show.  Those lizard gut guys use another race that's capable of carrying more lizards (for more lizard gut guy leaders down the road),  who are basically their main army.  While they can never become part of the elite sect, they do beneift from good health and longevity just by carrying the infant lizards inside.

I didn't want to try to spell Gooahwhatever, so I went with lizard gut guys.  Apologies in advance to any rabid Stargate fans :)

Anyway through the course of the show they proved they could begin to separate those infant lizards from that army without killing the host.  Perhaps a similar train of thought could be applied to whatever implants some of these enemy units possess to explore the idea further.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Goa'uld = snakes in people's heads
I've only seen it spelled once.
I think the host things are spelled Jafa, I'm not sure about that.

#40 Snakeman

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Posted 04 December 2004 - 09:32 AM

Oh yea surgury d'oh!. Oh well, that one's probably just as important considering the implantations.

Goa'uld = snakes in people's heads
I've only seen it spelled once.
I think the host things are spelled Jafa, I'm not sure about that.


Hah, I knew I'd bait a Stargate fan who knew more than I did to correct me :P

Its that damned apostrophe. Just like French writing, I never knew were to jam the damn things.

But something always confused me in particular about that show, sometimes the larva entered the neck to connect to the brain, other times the entered through the gut to control them that way. Strange. Anyway, I guess the analogy kinda still works :)

#41 Snakeman

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Posted 04 December 2004 - 08:17 PM

After reading NKF's thoughts on the toughness of Mutons in that thread, I'm starting to think that the Sectoids would probably make the best cross over type alien, simply because I think that they only have the big brain running them. No intermediary aliens pulling strings such as the Ethereals.

But I could be wrong, I haven't reread what the 'pedia says about them.

Don't get me wrong, I see the definite appeal in getting yourself a few freed Muton minds (willing that is) to help you. However, I view them as tough but dumb, whereas the Sectoids are weak but smart. They'd have the intellect probably to be of any use to you from a much more strategic standpoint than a small scale tactical one in terms of any sort of long range evolution.

Plus you can sort of begin to explain in more depth, why eventually we see cross breeding in the form of cloning in Apoc. Perhaps there was some cooperation with that race several years back that explains their integration into Earth culture?