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Squadrons & Convoys


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I figured the chatter would be throughout the flight, not just during the dog fight. I also figured you could click through the sounds by hitting enter or pressing okay, or giving orders.

The pilot varifies his range to target (or waypoint), throughout the flight.. When he intercepts the ufo the interception screen flips up and the corresponding sound is, 'request permission to engage.' You click an engagement type and answer him... missiles launch with a launch sound and the words, 'fox one' or 'fox two.'

I think it would probably turn a 15 second engagement into a 20 second engagement.... substantial percentage gain but an insubstantial gain in terms of perceived time interval for the player. I do agree with you, though, it would take longer, but I think you could minimize the impact.

I just think that there is so much, atmospherically, to gain from hearing the pilot's breathing (all this was an excuse to hear the stresses on the pilot). Hearing him breathe through the G-mask and grunt and pant when he's under a lot of stress could be very valent in terms of garnering emotional response if done subtlely.
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[quote name='j'ordos' date='Aug 23 2003, 10:35 AM']Having all that radio chatter has one disadvantage though: it'll take much longer. Whereas in the original an interception took a few seconds before either one was shot down or disengaged, having all that chatter will increase the time you spend on interceptions. And on top of that, there has to be enough variation, as otherwise it could get repetitive after 10 interceptions, and you start looking for a button to turn off the chatter to speed things up. So I think it's ony feasible if the player actually has some measure of control (more than in the original, I mean) over the whole thing.
Maybe air combat a là Achtung Spitfire or something like that? (You have a top down view, and control your aircraft turn based, each plane can move a set distance according to set speed and... nevermind, [url="http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/zones/reviews/pc/dec97/asp04.html"]here[/url] are some pics. The game itself was mediocre, but the flying actually was rather fun)[/quote]
Fair enough abou the battles, tho I think they should last longer than a couple of seconds. I think 10-15 seconds is a good time, obviously in UFO there wasn't a lot 2 do in the battle, but if my idea's get implemented then there is a lot more u can do during the course of a dog fight, and multiple battles going on at one time. I think, as in UFO I think, u don't lose any points 4 not attending a crash site, so u could choose the downed craft u want 2 take on.

I ave actually played the game u r talkin about, I think, about 3-4 years ago ( if we are talking about the same game ). I don't think that would really fit in with the general premise of the game, in that the interceptor window isn't the main part of the game and could be a distraction. 2 ways 2 modify my design I think 2 stop it getting boring:

1. Have a speed of battle button so it can be over in a matter of seconds when u can't be arsed 2 look at it again, or be 20 seconds of glorious combat and all imbetween :)

2. I really do think that the ships should fight each other in passes, then if the ships tries 2 escape they get a little head start but could be caught. Obviously it wouldn't happen ne more than in UFO coz it was only just about bearable. I really think that they shouldn't just line up coz if they do it is pointless having this whole screen, it will be the same battle every time and incredibly tedious. At least peeps will be able 2 watch the battle unfold in the air.
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[quote name='Jim69' date='Aug 23 2003, 12:41 PM']I ave actually played the game u r talkin about, I think, about 3-4 years ago ( if we are talking about the same game ). I don't think that would really fit in with the general premise of the game, in that the interceptor window isn't the main part of the game and could be a distraction. 2 ways 2 modify my design I think 2 stop it getting boring:

1. Have a speed of battle button so it can be over in a matter of seconds when u can't be arsed 2 look at it again, or be 20 seconds of glorious combat and all imbetween :)

2. I really do think that the ships should fight each other in passes, then if the ships tries 2 escape they get a little head start but could be caught. Obviously it wouldn't happen ne more than in UFO coz it was only just about bearable. I really think that they shouldn't just line up coz if they do it is pointless having this whole screen, it will be the same battle every time and incredibly tedious. At least peeps will be able 2 watch the battle unfold in the air.[/quote]
It was an old game, so that's probably the same you're talking about. I gave it as possible example, if/when we're going to implement expanded air combat. Obviously it would have to change (read: go faster) as propeller planes and jet/ufo combat aren't the same, but I thought it'd connect nicely to the turnbased battlescape.

[quote]I figured the chatter would be throughout the flight, not just during the dog fight. I also figured you could click through the sounds by hitting enter or pressing okay, or giving orders.[/quote]

Oh ok, I thought you meant having all that during the actual interception window.
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Yeah, the problem with using that game is this: Graphics for the sake of graphics are bad. Remember that u r meant 2 be the Commander, so u would ave 2 give a legitimate reason why u can see a top down view of the air battle ( I know u can see this same view in the Battlescape, but IIRC it said in the manual that u take the mantle of Squad Leader in those times, so...).

I honestly liked the radar in the original and I think we should just expand that rather than try 2 get any flashy graphics in there, mini games rarely work IMO.
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I'm with Jim69 on this one... Having a turned based aerial battle with loop-the-loops would take all the tension out of being kind of out of control. Once the dogfight has started, all you can do is tell the interceptor to go in hard or run away. The outcome is pretty much out of your hands, especially in the beginning when everything is new and the player is still tense. Edited by fux0r666
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Yeah, we need a mod a merge the current topics with the squadron topic. *cough*

So, what do peeps think of my take on the interceptor window. Should it be the same as it is? Should it just be 1v1? Should it include a wider battle? Opinions plz people :)
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Me too, it just seems noone else wants to speak out about it. Hopefull J'ordos has seen my other post by now is gonna merge this topic with the other 1 and we can get some proper discussion going on :)
*Nudge* :) Edited by Jim69
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You could have been a bit more subtle you know, I got ya the first time :D
Y'all extatic now? ^_^

let's discuss away!

Having some ID-style fights would be cool, you're attacking some terror ship thinking it has got nothing better to do than bug ya, and suddenly your 2 interceptors are attacked by escort fighters, so you have to either recall your planes or send in reinforcements and hope your flyboys last long enough. How about a new ship class for the aliens: the Escort Carrier, can launch small automatic drones that try to attack your interceptors. Of course you can research that of your own too, maybe modify an Avenger. Or just anti-drone weapons? Edited by j'ordos
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Now that's service :)

I'm gonna go away and think about ways I can make the interceptor window more strategic while still being removed from the actual battle. I think I ave made a start, but there's definatly room 4 improvement. If ne1 else has some idea's, please discuss as I feel that this is a vital part of the Geoscape ( even tho it won't be included in V1.0 )
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Sounds good. Am I the only 1 here ( part from Dipstick ) who actually wants an altogether more satisfying experience in the interceptor part of the game? Surely there are others who, like me, think that 1v1 is boring, outdated and illogical.

If someone can tell me right now a good reason why we shouldn't proceed on this path then I will forever hold my peace :). So, b4 I start ne more work on it ( I got other modelling 2 do nehow ) I'd like 2 hear a debate, reasons for and against. Even if they are only 1 line posts, at least that way we won't be going round in circles arguing with each other, we just post our reasons and await everyone elses. Then a senior can judge if it's worth persueing :)

Here's a couple of my reason's 4:

1. As long as the user doesn't have 2 get too involved in the screen, they can get thru the whole battle with minimal clicks and a short length, I think this will add a new interesting level and will prolong the Interceptor screen's attention level.

2. As well as letting the user not get 2 involved, IMO there should be an options to let them get more involved if they wish, e.g. using tactics like targeting a specific UFO, surrounding a UFO to block their exit etc.

And some against for balance:

1. The bases would ave 2 be a lot bigger, and at the least the hangers would ave 2 be cheaper.

2. It could take a lot more coding 2 complete.

Ne1 else? :) Edited by Jim69
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I think that the user in the commander's chair should remain the same. The user should only be able to issue rules of engagement to the AI. I think seeing seeing your aircraft zip around at mach 3 out of the thermal eyes of a satellite would be k-rad. But for that, someone would have to program 2 or 3 dimensional dogfight rules and tactics if it ever got in close (like immelman turns and flying scissors and the like).

Also, if the flying saucers are anything like they are in popular culture, they would be able to accellerate as if they had no inertia... they would be able to bring their weapons to bear no matter what direction they are flying in; whereas the interceptors, at least initially, can only shoot in a foreward arc with missiles and straight forward with cannons.

My vote is to flesh out some of the presentation aspect of the pursuits but keep most of the mechanics pretty much the same. Having aircraft make passes at each other would eliminate the range advantage of these weapons and would make them all appear the same... Except some go whoosh and some go zap.

Keeping it simple eliminates a lot of explanation problems... and let us all remember never to underestimate the imagination of the players themselves. If we seed it well, they will create an entire world out of very little. If we give them too much information, especially in such an abstract way as to make a turn based aerial combat minigame, we will severely constrict their ability to engage the material and make it their own.
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Not at all. It's not turn based if it all happens concurrently, the Interceptors are taking their shots at the same time as the UFO, and the quicker the reload time means the more shots u can get off. There's some variety in the weapons right there, far more than in UFO. And the interaction would not be anything more than setting formations and attack ranges. Go and play Championship Manager 4 if u think that this kills all imagination, u'd be very shocked at how effective it is.

Also you are thinking of them coming at the UFO straight. What u haven't considered is this: For the cannon 2 be effective it has 2 go straight 4 the UFO. For the missile 2 be effective it can get in range, launch the missile and then break off in a circle while keeping their range. Meaning the longer u set the distance, the quicker they break off. Now, this isn't particuarly different as the weapons in UFO didn't really have ranges, just u had 2 be very close 2 use the cannon, medium close 2 use the lasers and any range 4 missiles ( I think ), which is exactly what would happen here. And as they get into range they break off and try and get away without being shot. The further away they are then the less chance of the UFO hitting them ( or evem choosing them 2 hit ).

We are tryin to suck peeps into a fictional world here, and while I agree with u that imagination is a key part, things like having them line up in a row and fire at each other will only help 2 destroy that world. Seeing some blobs on the radar screen manuvare about is IMO just enough imagination 2 get u thinking of the aerial battle that is commencing without actually physically showing it 2 ya. I don't c how that will kill any suspence or imagination, however it could just be me.

Well, this is a quick sketch of what I am talking about. It shows 3 interceptors, a UFO and the weapon ranges. 1 and 3 are set to close range, in other words use cannons, and 2 is at medium range, or the most risky of ranges 2 use missiles at. It shows both craft coming towards each other, and as 1 and 3 come into missile range they could possibly launch missiles at the UFO, or maybe they should wait 2 use the cannons I don't know.

But ne wayz, as 2 gets into missile range it fires a couple of missiles at the craft and breaks off along the circumfrance of their range. Then 1 and 3 come in range, and they open fire with the cannon's 4 a set amount of time ( have 2 be decided I spose, maybe even an option 2 set amount of firing time tho it could get complicated, lets say a couple of seconds ). Then they too break off along they ranges. They then fly around the back of the UFO and turn round 4 another run. Obviously it would be more complicated than that, but that is the basic premise.

Ne wayz, I'll let other say their opinions as it ain't much good if it is only my voice, I just thought I should clear things up as 2 what I think should happen.

Here's the pic 4 reference.
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I agree with fux0r. A View from a satalite would be really cool. I mean, would we really be able to control a single seat aircraft like an interceptor if were not really there?

But, Jim is right too, we must at least have an appearance of a dogfight (aircraft and ufos darting left and right to avoid fire, sometimes succeding, sometimes getting blown to heck by that missile/plasma beam. How about we have a sattalite view, with the combatants moving around!
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Going back to the original topic (I think) how about making interceptors smaller, similiar to very small UFOs/small UFOs. Then (firestorms?) are equivalent to medium, and Avengers are equivalent to large? That way you can balance it. Also, that could mean max of 2 weapons for Is, then 3 for Fs, and 4 for As. Imagine FOUR plasma cannons! (although I have never used them :D)
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The avenger isn't an airplane. Faster planes are bigger because they require larger engines. The avenger has a ufo powerplant that, from the looks of the ufo's in Xcom, is the size of a washing machine. Edited by fux0r666
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I don't think we should make them smaller, we should just make hangers cheaper, quicker 2 build and make the bases bigger 2 allow 4 more stuff in it. Then squadron's could work. Does ne1 part from me and dipstick ( and poss Facehugger ) actually think it would be good 2 have more fighters and improve the interceptor screen? It just seems like noone else really wants it that much.
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I would like to have a really cool intercept screen where you see a chase camera of the interceptor, but That is v10+ so, the next best thing would be some sort of sattalite view, or a top down asteroids type view. It can be worked so that combatants can move around, and we would actually see a beam shoot out from ufos, and missiles from interceptors.
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Yeah, that's the idea. I got a little concept comin up soon since noone has actually said they don't like it I'm not gonna stop :) If quite a few peeps are against it then fair play, I just think it could really add something 2 the game. Gimme 10 and I'll show the world :D
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Rather than have the planes flying around each other in passing attacks (since the weapon recharge rate is very fast and doesn't require seperation) or having them just sit still (which is all you'd see from a remote radar post), you could have an isometric view from "advanced xcom sattelites" providing aerial coverage of the fight. Imagine seeing small models of each craft, with a flight animation that has them adjusting flight patterns occasionally while staying in formation. When you have 1 plane on holding patterns until another arrives, the new one flies in from the edge of the screen and the formation adjusts for it. You could have clouds passing by below with shadows, or a blurred ground passing much slower, or both, where the clouds are patchy (my favorite). When the intercept is at night, it switches to the thermal vision on the sattelite (like the scene from the movie Clear and Present Danger).

To add to the danger, I suggest the geoscape radar only show one signature, and when you get there you find out if any ufo fighters are present. We just say their size and stealth prevents a clear signal from being generated.
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The only thing is IMO we shouldn't have 2 leave the Geoscape 4 every battle, it would get extremely tediuos. Battles should have the option 2 be over in a matter of seconds, or in 1 minute of full normal speed combat.

Edit: I also prefer the less is more option when it come 2 this screen, I think that it should only be dots flyin around rather than actually seeing the craft, as Fux said some things should be left 2 the imagination IMO. Edited by Jim69
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Dots? Like radar blips?
I perfer little models of the ships. But, Blips would make sense. But how are we going to tell ours from theirs? Like a interceptor from a ufo? How about interceptors are blue triangles, and UFOs are red circles? That leave enough to the imagination?
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Yeah, radar blips. I am workin on something right now which will be clear, simple and easy 2 use. And a heck of a lot more interesting than the interceptor window right now. I'll edit this post when I'm happy with it 4 ur criticism.

Edit: Done. Right, I know the dots look dodgy with that colour but if u look towards the top u will see that the Type overlay button is depressed, so that's why they are different colours, so u can tell who is who. U could also turn it off :) Apart from that, ne comments? Both design and function comments are welcome :)

Edit2: Would help if I actually posted pic :hammer: Edited by Jim69
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Don't give a damage read out of the ufo.

Satellite views are top down, not isometric. Looking through the atmosphere on an angle would greatly increase the distortion of the picture. I like the original system of 1 v 1 because it locks your interceptor in alone. If you encounter a UFO that you aren't prepared for it will swat you down like a fly. If you bring in this Ready 5 Carrier Air Wing idea, there will be nothing you can't handle with enough interceptors. If you make the interceptors launch in groups, you'll have to make progressively bigger groups of alien ships... and I think that would ruin the whole espionage feel of the game. You're fighting an secret war with limited funding.... is there an invasion coming that you should be preparing for? How powerful do those UFOs get? These questions would be answered if you had a squadron of fighters and there was 15 UFO's roaming across the geoscape. If that was true the invasion would not have only already happened, but they would have been successful and the aliens could float around with impunity. There would be no awacs left to show you what the battle looks like, because the aliens would have air superiority. Edited by fux0r666
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The point is this: Aliens can travel from god knows where, at least outside our galaxy, have superior craft with superior weapon systems and their entry fighters can be shot down by 1 of our entry craft? The thing is this: That my idea isn't 2 have 15 UFO's against 15 XC-1's. It's about having 5 XC-1s to deal with 1 medium scout, coz that's what would really be needed. If it wasn't, then WTF are we here 4? We humans have 100,000 airplanes at our disposal, each country could easily regain air superiority again. But no, we are called in coz we have the best pilots, the best craft and the best troops.

And I don't think the aliens have air superiority, or u would never be able 2 launch a mission would ya? That's one of X-Corps job's, to keep air superiority. If u don't do this then u fail and are fired. And they don't attack craft that aren't interfering with their mission, which AWACS plainly aren't.

Edit: And when exactly are u locked in a 1v1 battle that u didn't expect? They can't attack u, u start the mission.

Edit2: And maybe instead of a percentage there should be a visual thing? Like their weapons could say "Lightly damaged" or summint like that, coz it would be obvious where the weapons are, and when they are damaged. Same with propultion.

Or, maybe it should just say how damaged they are, in the way above, as a general thing. Like a visual inspection, say "Lightly Damaged". That is until u get the Hyperwave Decoder, when it tells u exactly what is damaged and by what amount, like is said there. Edited by Jim69
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I think that the xc1's weapons should play a part too, I mean, 15 xc1's with cannons are probably going to fare more poorly than that same number equipped with avalanche missiles.

Also, The fact was, stingray missiles outranged all scout weapons except the large scout's, so, unless the ufo suddenly reversed course and attacked a interceptor head on, the ufo would get shot down because it couldn't shoot back.

And I hope the plasma cannon keeps its range in relation to ufos.

Edit: Would it be possible to target specific parts of a ufo, like propulsion to bring it down without harming the power supply? I figure this would have to be after ufo construction research though, because otherwise, you wouldn't know what was the engine, and what was the probe-o-matic 2000 sensors. :D

Edit2: Would the AWACS radar be animated like a normal radar? And where is the retreat button for when you underestimate your opposition? Lastly, what use would formations be, except for one or two ships to take the brunt of fire? Maby i'm not seeing something here. Edited by Cpl. Facehugger
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The formations would little use straight away, except if u have a craft with good weapons that u want 2 keep safe, or want 2 keep the skyranger that u r escorting out of the fight. Of cause if u fail then the skyranger isn't gonna be able 2 escape coz it's so slow.

However, when u get the Avenger's u will want 2 keep them safe. So, what do u do? Arm some XC-1's with cannons and put them at the front, and have the Avengers with the big guns at the back so they don't recieve damage. Or maybe u would want the Avenger's at the front coz they can take a lot more damage. This is where personal preference comes in and the formations come into their own. What ratio of different craft do u want? Which craft should take the initial hits?

Remember that the UFO's were a lot faster and more manuverable that our craft, so just coz they can't shoot back when there is only craft a long range doesn't mean they are gonna keep it like that. The break off ranges are only instructions on what 2 try 2 do, if all ur craft are at long range then the UFO's are gonna close down the range and there will be nothing u can do about it. However, if there are craft at short range distracting them then they can stay at their range a lot more effectively.

I'm not sure what u mean by the "Normal radar", AFAIK this is how radar is done, and there are a lot of AWACS in the sky so they would travel over the battle scene and give u a circular scan around the battle. I am also thinking of adding a text bar of events in the battle ( I guess I play Championship Manager too much :LOL: ) as this would give u a text version of what is happening in the battle.

I had thought of the targeting specific parts, I just wanted someone else 2 confirm that they liked the idea too :) I personally would love it, but do peeps think this would be too complicated? I hope not I really love the idea myself.

I also like ur retreat button, don't know why I didnt' think of it myself. Would 2 retreat buttons, one for individual craft and 1 for the whole group? Maybe it would be risky tryin 2 do this as there is a chance, if u pissed them off enough, that they would follow u instead of carrying on with their mission and try 2 kill u b4 u got 2 ur base. And if they saw u land u'd be up poo lake without a paddle :LOL:

Do peeps think what is being discussed here is worthy of taking further? Or do others have a better idea on how 2 proceed?

Edit: I also think I should make all the craft appear smaller on the radar so the battle scene has a little more room 2 work with. Edited by Jim69
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If you've never encountered a large UFO, you don't know what to expect the first time you engage one, smart donkey... and some ufos will chase you if you try and run away.

And just because they can bend space or have advanced stasis technology doesn't make them samurai of the air.

The reason why the world's military isn't involved is because it's a GAME. One could explain it away as the effects of alien infiltration.. And the ability for Xcom to scramble at a moment's notice. They're in a terror zone on the other side of the world within a few hours. Noone can do that, currently.

The missile engagements between aircraft are OUT OF VISUAL RANGE. There is no way you can visually assess the damage of an aircraft at a range of 60 miles, and no way a satellite camera can track an aircraft flying evasion patterns at 2000 miles per hour with an significant zoom.
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Firstly, I am planning 2 make it as if u throw 7 interceptors at a large UFO it's like throwing 4 interceptors at a large UFO right now. They get splattered coz the alien technology is that advanced, the ones on the radar are just there 2 show u what it would look like. U'd be like "Yeah, I'll throw 6 XC-1's at it, that'll take it down." Then it kills em all :devillaugh:

Right, u explain something critical to the plot as "It's a game" yet trivial technical things which peeps don't care about as important. Besides, it's not like the radar's gonna be be 10 metre's long, I am thinking of a 5 mile radius, I just made the fighters that big coz I felt like it.

Hey, this is a technologically advanced fighter, and we can always explain in some fluff text that it has a telescopic camera feeding data back 2 the base and some peeps constantly update the UFO's damage situation if it really bothers u that much. Oh yeah, ever seen pics of Aircraft in the air? How do u think they get those pics then -_- Coz the craft is moving as well and it's speed subtracts from that of the other craft.

And if u ave a Hyperwave Decoder in range then it can give u detailed info on the UFO's situaltion.

Yeah, so they can withstand the rigures of space travel beyond the speed of light, but they can't take a missile up the a$$?

I think that addresses all ur conerns, if not let me know :) Edited by Jim69
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What I meant by "normal radar" is explained by the picture I am attaching to the post. I was thinking about the actual display being animated like real radar.

Well, thats why Jim used awacs as a model for his radar system. But, Jim, wouldn't awacs kind of make base radar obsolete?
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Hmm, what if the AWACS can detect the UFO's only if they pass right under them, like a mile radius? AFAIK there range is much further than that, and they ave 2 be right above then practically 2 find them. So, when X-Com RADAR finds them the AWACS aircraft is told where 2 go and send the info on a secure line. That would explain why the range is so far aw well. Yeah, I was planning 4 the line 2 move, tho I thought it went clockwise. That won't be a problem 4 a while ne way, so lets just discuss form.
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Then again, this is the future... could have long endurance, relatively cheap UAVs that X-COM deploys in support of fighter groups. We may not be to the point where we can have fully automated fighters, but the task AWACS performs is suited to 'em.

Errr... would still have to have ground controllers to route the fighters, or could integrate all intel gathered by AWACS UAVs into each fighter. Not that that'd be part of the game the player would see =) Edited by Cavoe
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Hmm, that could work, tho the fighters would always ave 2 be at the centre of the screen. Maybe they could drop a localised radar beacon in the main battle area?
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Radar on UAVs could be 'tunable'. could focus in twords the front, like fighter radar when in an engagement, and be in 'seek' (360 degree) mode when not.

But for the sake of simpilicty, this probably should be taken care of by the simulation =) Edited by Cavoe
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And where would this explination be written 4 the player then? Nowhere. It wouldn't fit ne where ne wayz. Have u ever questioned when the Skyranger is on the edge of a map sometimes and u can't go beyond a certain point? Has it ever ruined ur gaming experience? I know it hasn't ruined mine.

If we start getting technical about this then is plasma really a feasable weapon? Is it really feasable that we have invented laser weapons more powerful than any weapon we have 2day in seemingly notime?

Basically I say we stick 2 the gameplay side of things, or we will come up with all these reasons that the player will never see/don't care about. Unless it is plot critical or a blatently obvious error, even tho many games even get away with this, then let's all shut up about it ( me included ) and start figuring out what would be more fun. Coz we just goin round and round right now and solving nothing.

Basically, unless someone can say something better that's sticks with the radar system we should get on with it and discuss gameplay matters. So, ne comments on the gameplay or graphical side of my concept? Edited by Jim69
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GG, I couldn't agree with u more. What I have posted is just a start, we have time but it needs coding and I am trying 2 learn C++ ( slowly ) so prehaps I could do it when the models are all finished and I have nothing 2 do.

But basically I think we should start discussing it now since it is important, as u say, not 2 scare peeps away and not 2 draw peeps away from the main game. This shouldn't just be a distraction but an integral part of the game, rather than a cheap tack on. So, it's gonna take a lot of discussing. Sabin, I also agree with the escorting Skyranger's, that could be fun. Here's some more idea's I have to help make it simple, not annoying yet still deep.

I think that the interceptor window should be as deep as u want it 2 be. So, u could set up the interceptor's, watch the whole battle in real time and change things if needed. You should also have the option of speeding things up after u ave set ur formation so it doesn't get boring. Also there should be the option 2 completly skip the whole battle and just be given the results. Does that sound good?

Edit: WTF happened 2 GG's and Sabin's comments? This makes me look like a serial spammer :o

I'm gonna go ave a think of how I can make this screen more interesting to peeps keeping in mind what I said above. Plus the fact that I need a fag and 3DSM is pissin me off big time :LOL: Edited by Jim69
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OK, there may or may not be some sensitive nerves at this point, I feel some annoyance here and there... this is at least a glorified version of what's already used, at most a fully revamped intercept system. I suggest it stay close to the original if possible. Remember that you could send 5 or 6 interceptors to a ufo in the original, you'd just have a seperate window for each one. This interface is more a combining of those windows IMO. You could make a small square for each craft along the bottom of the screen that shows damage and ammo for the craft, and have small buttons along the top edge of each box to choose aggression level or to retreat. Like the min/max/close buttons on the windows GUI. I don't think there should be more than 1 ufo on the screen, but as you approach a supply ship for example, a ufo fighter would seperate and engage your closest interceptor before you got there. If you send out 3, it's a 3 on 1 fight. But while you're fighting, the other ship is getting away. If you pursue, the tables are turned and the ufo fighter is behind you, getting free shots from the rear. So you're best option is to engage the fighter with at least 1 or 2 planes, and send another pair after teh supply ship. This requires you to send 4 planes instead of 1 or 2, and that becomes tough when there are several ufos to shoot down.
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No sensitive nerves on my part, we all want the same thing, even tho we all want 2 go around it differently. I am worried that u r annoyed at the idea as that points 2 it being not thought thru enough. Well, I will try 2 justify my idea anyway as I really think it is a big improvement on the original.

Firstly, I think that the UFO fighter would be around the supply ship protecting it, and the supply ship would be keeping behind it and tryin to keep out of range rather than them being just close 2 each other, they should be a unit, or squadron.

AFAIK u could only send 4 interceptor to 1 UFO, and only battle 1 at a time. I simply don't think this is right, and has always seemed a little silly 2 me personally. My idea is 2 have the actual battle far more involved, should u wish it 2 be, than simply 4 interceptor windows combined into 1.

To explain this, if it were a direct merger then there would be 4 interceptors in a line and a ufo fighting them all at the same time, firing shots at them all at the same time. Doesn't make sense 2 me. I think u should have the nearest XC-1 attacking the UFO at very close range, just an example, and a couple behind it firing missiles. The UFO is far more manuvarable than our craft and should act like it, moving around the radar screen pummling the nearest craft while avoiding a majority of the missiles, much like in the window now except u r treated to a visual radar screen of the battle.

Why is this necessary I think ur question is? Well, what strategy did u have 4 fighting UFO's in X-Com 1? Very little I'd imagine. Where's the strategy in this? Many things. Deciding which craft should be protected, which craft should be at the spear tip of the formation, what weapons 2 use at different ranges ( which in UFO I never really got into, just upgraded all my fighters and rarely lost 1 )while keeping in mind about their respective costs and their value 2 u. Should u have purely Avengers, or a mix? Should u involve the Firestorm ( I think that's the 1 )coz they are not as faster than the XC-1, and cheaper than an Avenger?

Also I think there could be an option to target a specific UFO function after the function has been researched, like the UFO power source, or weapons systems that are easier 2 destroy and can keep them out of the fight but with the possibility of them escaping. To me I only see potential for more strategy, and with some of the options I have been thinking of 2 speed combat up or even skip it entirely I think it could be 100x better than the interceptor window. Or is it just me who sees the potential for some more strategy here? Edited by Jim69
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Sometimes I forget that this thread is for post alpha builds. What I would like to see is a working playtest with the one on one fighter combat with the original interceptor costs compared to variations of the multiple fighter engagement builds.

I concur with Breunor and add that cheap fighters without pilots will necessarily devalue the interceptors in the eyes of the players.
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God damn it, I had a really eloquent post and it all went up in smoke some how.

Anyways, I agree with Breunor. We should keep it simple and close to the working formula in the beginning and then playtest the extra aspects in later betas.

I had like a page and a half of text... maybe I'll come back to it when I'm not feeling so frustrated.
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