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CTD - Smoke Grenade


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#1 Syntax Error

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 06:04 AM

The hand smoke grenade is designed to guarantee resistance, sealing and maximum lifespan to him. It is made up for that of an aluminium body, inside of which is a smoke-producing block of composition, closed by an obturator. This obturator comprises four vents of emission which ensure the production of a very dense smoke-producing cloud according to the version.The hand smoke grenade is equipped with a stopper lighter to double safety 2,5 seconds.

For a military use, it allows:
-To announce.
-To indicate the direction of the wind.
-To create a smoke-producing tactical screen.

This grenade can be declined in a version "marker" with one duration of combustion of approximately 220 seconds and in a version "screen" with one duration of combustion of approximately 120 seconds and a density of more significant smoke.

The smoke grenade delivers a cloud of white smoke with a discharge time of around 30 seconds. These grenades are used for training and screening purposes. They are also very effective in creating a diversion for certain tactical operations.

The smoke grenade is designed to cause disorientation by limiting visual references. This allows concealment for an officer to retreat or move forward in an operation where some type of concealment or diversion is needed.

Small hallways and crowded areas are one of the best places to drop these grenades. If your team is having problems getting past a hallway or a tight route, you should throw a smoke grenade to protect your guys from enemy fire. IT SHOULD NOT BE USED IN CLOSED-IN AREAS UNLESS SOLDIERS ARE WEARING PROTECTIVE MASKS.AND THERE IS DANGER OF STARTING A FIRE IF USED IN A DRY AREA.

Note: Nothing can scare an enemy like multiple smoke grenades. Obviously, this just increases the concentration of smoke in the place where the grenades are thrown.


Performance Characteristics:

A. Time to Effect: Instantaneous.
B. Duration of Effect: Seconds to Minutes based on power factor, distance and location of discharge.
C. Effective Range: 0 to 300 feet based on weather conditions.
D. Discharge Time: 35 seconds.

Operational Limitations: Countermeasures:

A. Heavy flora, natural or man-made cover or concealment, or gas masks.
B. Weather/Environment Limitations: Rain, Wind
C. Legal, fratricide, multi-shot/recycle time, number of shots, shot/long term human effects; discharge of gas will displace oxygen, Not for use in areas of limited ventilation. Injuries may result in the form of contusions, abrasions, broken ribs and concussions if individuals are struck with the canister or sub-munitions.
D. Fire hazard present, This munition should only be used outdoors. Avoid roof top exposure and indoor environments.

Physical Data:

A. Size: Length= 5.70" COL Diameter: 2.4".
B. Overall Weight: 750 Grams.
C. Chemical weight: 400 Grams.
D. Power Requirements: M201 Igniters.


The real smoke grenade effect:
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#2 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 03:45 PM

Real nice, I can see that you are improving.
I'm only partially inactive. :P I can still be reached at cpl.facehugger@gmail.com, and via PM. Preferably the former.

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#3 Syntax Error

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 03:49 PM

I am not improving, i can see now what you want. ^_^

#4 j'ordos

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 04:01 PM

Except, I believe it was agreed upon to use the metric system :)

edit: and definitely not 2 different systems in the same description, metric for weight and imperial for size :P

Edited by j'ordos, 03 December 2003 - 04:03 PM.

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#5 Syntax Error

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 04:05 PM

Pffffff :beer:



The hand smoke grenade is designed to guarantee resistance, sealing and maximum lifespan to him. It is made up for that of an aluminium body, inside of which is a smoke-producing block of composition, closed by an obturator. This obturator comprises four vents of emission which ensure the production of a very dense smoke-producing cloud according to the version.The hand smoke grenade is equipped with a stopper lighter to double safety 2,5 seconds.

For a military use, it allows:
-To announce.
-To indicate the direction of the wind.
-To create a smoke-producing tactical screen.

This grenade can be declined in a version "marker" with one duration of combustion of approximately 220 seconds and in a version "screen" with one duration of combustion of approximately 120 seconds and a density of more significant smoke.

The smoke grenade delivers a cloud of white smoke with a discharge time of around 30 seconds. These grenades are used for training and screening purposes. They are also very effective in creating a diversion for certain tactical operations.

The smoke grenade is designed to cause disorientation by limiting visual references. This allows concealment for an officer to retreat or move forward in an operation where some type of concealment or diversion is needed.

Small hallways and crowded areas are one of the best places to drop these grenades. If your team is having problems getting past a hallway or a tight route, you should throw a smoke grenade to protect your guys from enemy fire. IT SHOULD NOT BE USED IN CLOSED-IN AREAS UNLESS SOLDIERS ARE WEARING PROTECTIVE MASKS.AND THERE IS DANGER OF STARTING A FIRE IF USED IN A DRY AREA.

Note: Nothing can scare an enemy like multiple smoke grenades. Obviously, this just increases the concentration of smoke in the place where the grenades are thrown.


Performance Characteristics:

A. Time to Effect: Instantaneous.
B. Duration of Effect: Seconds to Minutes based on power factor, distance and location of discharge.
C. Effective Range: 0 to 5 based on weather conditions.
D. Discharge Time: 35 seconds.

Operational Limitations: Countermeasures:

A. Heavy flora, natural or man-made cover or concealment, or gas masks.
B. Weather/Environment Limitations: Rain, Wind
C. Legal, fratricide, multi-shot/recycle time, number of shots, shot/long term human effects; discharge of gas will displace oxygen, Not for use in areas of limited ventilation. Injuries may result in the form of contusions, abrasions, broken ribs and concussions if individuals are struck with the canister or sub-munitions.
D. Fire hazard present, This munition should only be used outdoors. Avoid roof top exposure and indoor environments.

Physical Data:

A. Size: Length= 17.2cm COL Diameter: 8.4cm
B. Overall Weight: 750 Grams.
C. Chemical weight: 400 Grams.
D. Power Requirements: M201 Igniters.

#6 coolp

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Posted 03 December 2003 - 11:59 PM

Wow! Thats really well researched...
One thing though... are we going for the same kind of format throughout the xnet, or are we going to have a different format for each entry?

#7 Breunor

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Posted 19 December 2003 - 12:30 PM

Darn, I didn't see this thread before writing up some things myself. So I'll post what I came up with and then take a look at your stuff. Remember that a combat round in the game is 4 seconds, I don't know if a player would ever know this but saying the safety takes X seconds could become misleading. I like your thorough explanation of tactical uses, but I think it goes too far in the details. Here is what I had written up so far on it, after I do some real life work I'll be back to offer a combined version to see what you think:

Edit: I've read your entry and included parts of it in the following as well.

The M18 smoke grenade is used for ground-to-ground and ground-to-air signaling, landing zone marking, and for screening unit movements in combat situations. It is this last use that the X-Corps feels will provide a valuable function for including the M18 in our arsenal.

The steel casing has several emission holes at the top and bottom to allow smoke release once ignited. 300mL of colored smoke mixture will provide cover during a combat mission. This will allow operatives to disembark from a transport under cover, or provide screens on exposed flanks during a withdrawal. The smoke grenade can also cause disorientation by limiting visual references. Confined areas such as building interiors are ideal for using the M18.

Prolonged inhalation of the smoke mixture can be detrimental; operatives are also advised to avoid holding the M18 during use as burns may occur. Use in confined areas may also become a fire hazard; caution is advised where collateral damage is likely. The discharge of gas can significantly displace oxygen supplies; use in non-ventilated areas is not advised.

Physical Data:

Size: Length= 17.2cm COL Diameter: 8.4cm
Overall Weight: 750 Grams.
Chemical weight: 400 Grams.
Power Requirements: M201 Igniters.

Edited by Breunor, 19 December 2003 - 12:53 PM.


#8 Syntax Error

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Posted 20 December 2003 - 04:04 AM

Damned, i was correcting my texts for a week and you come with your own corrections! :D

Your text seem to be well adapted to a game.
Now, the smoke grenade has its text...

#9 Astyanax

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Posted 03 February 2005 - 09:50 PM

It's a bit short, but it gets the job done. There are a few places where things could be added. Some solid numbers (volume of smoke generated: approx. 300 sq. ft.?, and duration of the smoke cloud: I think up to 5 minutes, depending on weather conditions) from Syntax Error's original post would help, and a little history (like a situation where smoke grenades were used to great effect historically) would bring this entry to life.

Red text indicates additions, orange text indicates deletions, and blule text indicates comments.

[SMOKE GRENADE]
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Weapons/[Smoke Grenade]


The [M18 smoke grenade] is used for ground-to-ground and ground-to-air signaling, landing zone marking, and for screening unit movements in combat situations. It is this last use that the X-Corps feels will provide a valuable function for including the M18 in our arsenal. This last sentence is awkward.  Suggest: “It is for this last reason that the X-Corps has included the [M18 Smoke Grenade] in its arsenal.”

The [Smoke Grenade]’s steel casing has several emission holes at the top and bottom to allow smoke release once ignited disperse smoke after ignition. Its 300mL of colored smoke mixture will provide cover How much cover (area-wise) and how long before it disperses (assuming no wind)? during a combat mission. This will allows operatives to disembark from a transport under cover in relative safety?, or provide smokescreens on for exposed flanks during a withdrawal. The [smoke grenade] can also be used offensively and cause disorientation by limiting visual references. In confined quarters such as building interiors, the use of the [M18] in this capacity is particularly effective Confined areas such as building interiors are ideal for using the M18.

Prolonged inhalation of the smoke mixture can be detrimental, and; operatives are also advised to avoid holding the [M18] during use as burns may occur. Use in confined areas may also become present a fire hazard; caution is advised where collateral damage is likely. The Since the discharge of gas from the [M18] can significantly displace oxygen supplies;[color="red"], its use in non-ventilated areas is not advised.

Physical Data:

Size: Length= 17.2cm COL Diameter: 8.4cm
Overall Weight: 750 Grams.
Chemical weight: 400 Grams.
Power Requirements: M201 Igniters.


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#10 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 15 February 2005 - 05:40 PM

[SMOKE GRENADE]
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Equipment/[Smoke Grenade]

The [M18 smoke grenade] is used for ground-to-ground and ground-to-air signaling, landing zone marking, and for screening unit movement in combat situations; the latter one will most certainly make the [smoke grenade] a valuable asset to X-Corps ground operations.

The [Smoke Grenade]’s steel casing has several emission holes at the top and bottom to disperse smoke after ignition. Its 300mL of colored smoke mixture provide cover during a combat mission. This allows operatives to disembark from a transport under cover in relative safety, or provide smokescreens for exposed flanks during a withdrawal. The [smoke grenade] can also be used offensively; causing disorientation by limiting visual references. In confined quarters such as building interiors, the use of the [M18] in this capacity is particularly effective.

Prolonged inhalation of the smoke mixture can be detrimental, and operatives are also advised to avoid holding the [M18] during smoke dispersion as it represents a burn hazard. Usage in confined areas may present a fire hazard; caution is advised where collateral damage is likely. Since the discharge of smoke from the [M18] can significantly displace oxygen, its use in non-ventilated areas is not recommended.

[FLUFF]

#11 Moriarty

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 09:18 AM

hmmm... I just considered that there might be battles in the future which take place underwater (if the hybrid gameplay is implemented one day) and that there will be at least one battle in space or at least in a non-oxygen atmosphere.
with this in mind you might consider explaining why it still works there. either there is a non-oxygen dependent combustion involved, or it's some kind of different chemical reaction altogether.

btw, will the smoke-grenade-created smoke be black? dark grey? or perhaps even green, red, blue or whatever is usually used to mark targets for bombing? :)

also, as far as I remember, even smoke grenades in the original game did some damage. do I remember correctly? it was really not much, but still... what's it going to be like in xenocide? because unless you want the smoke screen to develop over the course of a few turns, there would have to be some kind of explosion involved. :unsure:
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#12 Mad

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 10:21 AM

also, as far as I remember, even smoke grenades in the original game did some damage. do I remember correctly?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well... no, AFAIK they did no direkt damage, but they affected troopers with T-Shirt armour (smoke damage), but this is implemented in the CT:

[...] Prolonged inhalation of the smoke mixture can be detrimental [...]

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#13 Mad

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 10:30 AM

Maybe I have an idea for a fluff:

"Next time maybe we could use Chef instead of these expensive smoke grenades...
(heard in the cafeteria on a "burned beef day")"

okok... not exactly bright, but... consider it... ;)

Edited by Mad, 26 February 2005 - 12:10 PM.

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#14 Astyanax

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 12:04 PM

Iirc, smoke grenades only did temporary stun damage dependent on how long the soldier was in the smoke.

I think you need an "a" before "chef" in your fluff, Mad. :) Took me a little while to figure out what you were trying to say.

In the same vein: "*cough cough* These smoke grenades are terrible for making smoked sausage!"
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#15 Mad

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 12:13 PM

Iirc, smoke grenades only did temporary stun damage dependent on how long the soldier was in the smoke.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So do I. Thats what I wanted to say with "they affected troopers with T-Shirt armour (smoke damage)" :)

I think you need an "a" before "chef" in your fluff, Mad. :)  Took me a little while to figure out what you were trying to say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually I wanted to use Chef as a name (like in "Southpark", you know). Altered
fluff, hope it´s clear now... :)

Edited by Mad, 26 February 2005 - 12:14 PM.

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And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#16 dan2

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Posted 26 February 2005 - 08:26 PM

Smoke... obtained usually when a compound is heated above its decomposition temperature and the decomposing products are solids when cooled.
Smoke is a suspension of solids in a gas, while fog is a suspension of liquid in a gas.
Very easily you get smoke from wood or sugar powder, because the sugars loose water and transform into polyaromatics, which are solids.
I was having fun making lots of smoke by firing a mixture of fine ground sugar and potasium chlorate (an oxidant that allows faster burning than in just air).
So in order to create smoke you need a firing device (detonator), a chemical mixture able to give lots of smoke, and if you want colored smoke, you can add inorganic dyes like oxides of various metals. I said inorganic, because those usually don't decompose to something else during ignition. For yellow or red, iron oxides, for green, chromium oxide, I have to look further for other colors.
If the fire doesn't have enough air or oxidant and it has plenty of carbon, the smoke will be black from carbon (microcrystalls of graphyte, heavy polyaromatics).
I think smoke have a poisoning effect rather than just a stunning effect.

#17 Moriarty

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Posted 27 February 2005 - 04:09 PM

I took a shot at it... I tried to make corrections in the usual manner, but ended up changing so much that nobody would have been able to see through alll the colors anymore. :Brickwall: At least I wouldn't. :sorry:

I tried to make some references to the current version of the "standard grenade" text.

@dan2: yeah, you're right about smoke, but I think the term "smoke grenade" does not necessarily even need true smoke (solid in gas) to be involved. people are so used to calling every colored cloud "smoke" that it's almost proverbial. this grenade might be using colored gas for all I know :) an interesting thing you mentioned is the poisoning effect. now I think about it, I don't think there is any way to stun somebody without inflicting damage. considering that, even the stun baton should do a few points of damage... hmmm...

anyway, here's my version:

[SMOKE GRENADE]
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Equipment/[Smoke Grenade]

The [M18 smoke grenade] can be used for ground-to-ground and ground-to-air signaling, landing zone marking, and providing cover for unit movement in combat situations; the latter will most certainly make the [smoke grenade] a valuable asset to X-Corps ground operations.

The [Smoke Grenade]’s steel casing has several emission holes at the top and bottom to disperse smoke after ignition. The core contains the "smoke mix" embedded in a suppressive matrix. This matrix can be triggered to decompose within microseconds by applying an electric current, initiating a rapid smoke-creating reaction. Soldiers should note that the reactants do not rely on atmospheric oxygen, so trying to douse the reaction using standard fire-extinguishing methods will show no effect.
The [M18 smoke grenade] has been fitted with the same time-adjustable electromagnetic fuse that the MH82 uses. A countdown-timer is set using a dial at the top of the device. Also, the same concealed deactivation mechanism has been integrated.

Its payload of 300mL of colored smoke mixture create a thick enough smoke to provide cover during a combat mission. This allows operatives to disembark from a transport under cover in relative safety, or provide smokescreens for exposed flanks during a withdrawal. The [smoke grenade] can also be used offensively; causing disorientation by limiting visual references. In confined quarters such as building interiors, the use of the [M18] in this capacity is particularly effective. Attention should be given to the fact that visibility will also be impaired for friendly units.

"Help! I can't see that stupid Alien anymoouuuuargh." - transcript of radio transmission recording, recruit Brian Wonky, after using a smoke grenade to "cover my advance and show that f...er who's boss"

Prolonged inhalation of the smoke mixture can be detrimental, and operatives are also advised to avoid holding the [M18] during smoke dispersion as it represents a burn hazard. Since the discharge of smoke from the [M18] can significantly displace oxygen, its use in poorly ventilated areas without proper gear is strongly discouraged by the manufacturer.


what do you think?

btw, I took the liberty of taking out the part about the burn hazard, as I don't remember anything like that being in the game. or am I wrong again? anyway, all this has made me think about having incendiary grenades... but yeah, I guess that's V1+++, right? :blush1:
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#18 dan2

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Posted 27 February 2005 - 05:13 PM

A suppressive matrix that can be triggered to decompose within microseconds by applying an electric current? Why not just firing the mixture? Seems simple and more veridic to me. Its not that will burn everything around, the fire happens just inside the grenade and the smoke and any gases cool in the cold air. But otherwise the text looks fine to me

#19 Moriarty

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 12:26 AM

actually, I was just trying to find an interesting way of triggering the reaction. somehow I thought the old "put-fire-to-it" way seems boring :P

The other reason is, I want to give the feeling that the reaction is really really fast, so that the player can believe that there is a grenade that creates a smoke screen instantaneously. I'm just not comfortable with a reaction like combustion which has to spread through the grenade. That seems too slow to me.
So in my imagination, there is these highly reactive compounds. They need to be kept away from each other, that's why they are embedded in the matrix, and when the fuse activates, the whole matrix disintegrates (activated electrically, so it's every molecule of the matrix at basically the same time), and the whole mixture reacts. veeeery quickly. :D

but I guess we could go back to simple combustion, if everyone feels that's better :Cry:
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#20 Astyanax

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Posted 28 February 2005 - 03:23 AM

This may have absolutely no basis in fact, but this is just a rough idea I just thought up of as an alternative to ignition-based smoke grenades. I'm pretty tired at the moment, so I hope this'll be somewhat coherent...

How about a liquid smoke substance that is kept as a liquid under high pressure inside the smoke grenade, and when the safety is released, the next hard jolt (like hitting the ground) would be sufficient to trigger the grenade. Such a jolt would breach the pressure seal within the smoke grenade, sending the liquid smoke in all directions (the high pressure contained within the grenade assists the dispersion of the liquid smoke). However, one of the properties of the liquid smoke is that it evaporates very quickly once it's returned to normal pressure. Further, the smoke generated is somewhat heavier-than-air, so it doesn't disperse too rapidly. The only problem is that I'm not sure how a far a pressurized grenade can disperse materials. It'd have to be under very high pressure, and then I'd wonder if it would then cause real damage as opposed to just stun damage.

Or maybe a foam/aerosol smoke material?

Ok, my ideas are getting increasingly silly. Good night folks.

EDIT- Don't know what I was thinking last night. Liquids don't sublimate, they evaporate. Still, I think "sublimate" sounds cooler, but I feel it'd be even less feasible for a sublimating solid to rapidly generate a decently sized smokescreen...

Edited by Astyanax, 28 February 2005 - 10:29 AM.

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#21 Moriarty

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Posted 01 March 2005 - 06:42 AM

well, what kind of smoke-producing reaction is best? I really don't know. let's re-think this:
- it has to be really fast, unless we want to change gameplay.
- it should work as a self-contained reaction, not relying on anything in our atmosphere, or we will have serious issues with battles outside our atmosphere.
- it should not be anything that causes real damage, unless we want to change gameplay
- the "smoke" (or aerosol, gas, whatever) should have minor toxic effects (that is, cause stun damage), unless we want to change gameplay

anything else we have to consider?


oh, something else... I included a timer function in my smoke grenade text. Is that correct? I can't remember, and I'm away from my home PC right now, so I can't ceck.
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#22 dan2

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 11:09 PM

well, what kind of smoke-producing reaction is best? I really don't know. let's re-think this:
- it has to be really fast, unless we want to change gameplay.
- it should work as a self-contained reaction, not relying on anything in our atmosphere, or we will have serious issues with battles outside our atmosphere.
- it should not be anything that causes real damage, unless we want to change gameplay
- the "smoke" (or aerosol, gas, whatever) should have minor toxic effects (that is, cause stun damage), unless we want to change gameplay
oh, something else... I included a timer function in my smoke grenade text. Is that correct? I can't remember, and I'm away from my home PC right now, so I can't ceck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a really tough cookie.
Dry ice and steam make a lot of fog, but that's easily dispersed by wind and the dry ice sublimate in time out of the grenade. Maybe if they keep the grenades in the freezer before the mission :)
How about a rapid exotermic reaction evaporating water as steam and a mild, localized explosion dispersing dry ice? That will make a looooot of fog. Water fog have no health effect and the dry ice will slowly make you shiver (mild stun effect?).
It's not really ideal, but I can't think of something else yet :huh?:

P.S. Now I realize the topic is called smoke grenade. Can we call the grenade "fog grenade"?

Edited by dan2, 17 March 2005 - 11:12 PM.


#23 Exo2000

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Posted 22 March 2005 - 05:27 AM

Smoke 'nades also dealt stun damage to dudes in personal armour, FYI - anyone without a facemask & filter unit should take stun damage from smoke grenades.

Would it be possible to have a marker grenade? Ie, if you're on a mission, you could equip an interceptor with some sort of bomb (1 shot) then you throw the marker 'nade and a few turns later the Interceptor arrives and drops the bomb, making a bigass mess?
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#24 Moriarty

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Posted 24 March 2005 - 02:19 AM

any kind of artillery/strafe bombing/aircraft ground support/orbital laser arrays (just kidding) are being heavily discussed in the labs, which is where they belong. :) sorry for now, Xenocide v1 will have the same features as X-Com.

someone from the top dogs should probably step in here and decide whether the smoke grenade needs a different way of creating smoke, otherwise the text might be considered finished, right? :) *nudge, nudge*
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#25 Astyanax

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 12:29 PM

"Top dogs"? You might want to ask tzuchan about that... :D

Personally, I think the text looks good; the alternate smoke-production methods discussion was just a playful brainstorm incited/inspired by this comment... :P

actually, I was just trying to find an interesting way of triggering the reaction. somehow I thought the old "put-fire-to-it" way seems boring :P

It's all good, though. :)

But now... it's Astyanaxation time! :Tomato:
Disclaimer: the views of Astyanax do not in any way imply agreement or endorsement by Project Xenocide, Ltd.

Though grammatically correct, this third paragraph feels choppy:

The [M18 smoke grenade] has been fitted with the same time-adjustable electromagnetic fuse that the MH82 uses. A countdown-timer is set using a dial at the top of the device. Also, the same concealed deactivation mechanism has been integrated.

Maybe move the third paragraph to the second paragraph; my suggestion for the "new" second paragraph follows (pardon a little bit of embellishment):

...make the [smoke grenade] a valuable asset to X-Corps ground operations.

In many ways, the [M18 smoke grenade] is similar to the MH82 fragmentation grenade.  The [M18 smoke grenade] shares the same time-adjustable electromagnetic fuse, dorsal-mounted countdown dial, and concealed deactivation mechanism as the MH82.  However, the similarities between the two grenades end at their modes of operation.

The [Smoke Grenade]'s steel casing...


Also change "f..er" to "bastard", "creep", or some less offensive term in the fluff. :P

Edited by Astyanax, 28 March 2005 - 12:33 PM.

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#26 dan2

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 12:53 PM

Can anybody explain what's an electromagnetic fuse? I understand electrothermal, but electromagnetic?

#27 Astyanax

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 12:56 PM

Good point, dan2.

The Frag. Grenade CT states, "time-adjustable electromagnetic detonator", not "fuse".
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#28 dan2

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 02:01 PM

The Frag. Grenade CT states, "time-adjustable electromagnetic detonator", not "fuse".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aaaaaa.....I was actually unhappy with the word "electromagnetic". Does it contain an electromagnet? I'm not aware of anything going "bang" just because an electromagnet suddenly generates a magnetic field. There are substances that explode because of heat, sparks, fire or mechanical shock, but "electromagnetic" alone doesn't do it for me.
I suggest "electrothermal", "electrical", "thermal" or "electromechanical".

#29 Moriarty

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Posted 02 April 2005 - 03:14 PM

I am just a great fan of including creative ways of doing stuff that don't exist (yet) in order to stop the weapon-nerds from telling me that something is described incorrectly. :P

So you are right, I am also absolutely unaware of any substance going "bang" because an EM field is applied, which is kind of the reason why I used it :D I imagine that such a substance might be possible, though. And again, the big advantage would be that the EM field needs far less time to travel through the payload than for example heat or a shockwave. Thus, the thing would go "boom" at all points simultaneously, creating more "boom". right? (but then again, I should have explained it...)
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#30 dan2

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 08:34 AM

I am just a great fan of including creative ways of doing stuff that don't exist (yet) in order to stop the weapon-nerds from telling me that something is described incorrectly. :P

So you are right, I am also absolutely unaware of any substance going "bang" because an EM field is applied, which is kind of the reason why I used it :D    I imagine that such a substance might be possible, though. And again, the big advantage would be that the EM field needs far less time to travel through the payload than for example heat or a shockwave. Thus, the thing would go "boom" at all points simultaneously, creating more "boom". right? (but then again, I should have explained it...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that I think of it, yes, you can microwave the explosive, but that would be a big grenade to throw :) Maybe a tiny microwave generator... :hmmm:

#31 Astyanax

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 11:20 AM

I don't know about microwaves; why use something that can be harmful to people? I know that the microwave radiation can be shielded, but that seems awfully complicated since a simple fuse would do the same job more safely, more cheaply, and more simply...

On another point, maybe at the end of the second paragraph, instead of:

...so trying to douse the reaction using standard fire-extinguishing methods will show no effect.

maybe use:

...so attempts to douse the reaction using standard fire-extinguishing methods will be ineffective.


Edited by Astyanax, 03 April 2005 - 11:21 AM.

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#32 Moriarty

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 02:33 PM

I don't know about microwaves; why use something that can be harmful to people?


LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

"harmful to people"? you mean, like, grenades, for example?

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

the other point is valid, though. good correction.
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#33 Astyanax

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 02:38 PM

LOL

I meant harmful to the user, silly. :P
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#34 Moriarty

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 12:19 AM

:Whisper: you know, if the microwaves trigger the reaction that makes the grenade go boom, the user will hopefully be far away, so the microwaves won't even reach him. and if he's not, he should worry about the "boom", not about the waves :wink1:


I think a microwave detonator sounds about right. what do the other explosive-ctd-experts say? should we use microwaves as the explosion-triggering mechanism in both human grenades? or should I change it to simple, boring electric-jolt-triggers? :P
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#35 dan2

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 09:52 AM

I think a microwave detonator sounds about right. what do the other explosive-ctd-experts say? should we use microwaves as the explosion-triggering mechanism in both human grenades? or should I change it to simple, boring electric-jolt-triggers?  :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Microwaves don't go through metals and if the grenade is covered by a layer of metal, it will be OK. And when they travel far their energy would be too weak to harm anybody.
A microwave detonator would need a bit of time to heat the explosive, but if there's some aluminium wiring inside the detonator, that will make things easier :)

#36 Kikanaide

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 09:53 AM

This may be random, but I could swear that during one mission I had the bright idea to just drop a smoke grenade...and that standing on top of it did deal a couple of points of health damage. Now, this is an old memory, and I certainly haven't tested it since reading this thread...I've got an install of 98se running at home now, I could conceivably check on this...

edit: don't miss dan2's simul-post on the last page...both good points. Microwaves (actually all em waves) don't go through metal (they actually won't go through any conductive surface or screen, like the little x-grid in the glass of your microwave at home).

Edited by Kikanaide, 04 April 2005 - 09:56 AM.

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#37 Astyanax

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 11:17 AM

Ok, I get it now... thanks guys. I misunderstood and thought the microwaves triggered the "electromagnetic fuse". Oops. :D Still, it's good to know about the relative impenetrability of metals to EM radiation (though iirc, the higher powered ones still can penetrate... but those won't be used as detonation devices :P).

A microwave detonator would need a bit of time to heat the explosive, but if there's some aluminium wiring inside the detonator, that will make things easier

To be honest, I'm not all that keen on the microwave idea; unless a microwave detonator works better than a regular electrical detonator, I can't really see world militaries switching to newer, less effective technology. But if it is more effective, then my qualms are nonexistent. :P

Edited by Astyanax, 04 April 2005 - 11:19 AM.

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#38 Moriarty

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 01:24 PM

hmmm... after all, I guess a simple electric fuse would be easier. :)
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#39 Moriarty

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 12:11 PM

included the latest changes. anymore comments?


SMOKE GRENADE
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Equipment/Smoke Grenade

The M18 Smoke Grenade can be used for ground-to-ground and ground-to-air signaling, landing zone marking, and providing cover for unit movement in combat situations; the latter will most certainly make the Smoke Grenade a valuable asset to X-Corps ground operations.

In many ways, the M18 Smoke Grenade is similar to the MH82 Fragmentation Grenade. The M18 shares the same time-adjustable fuse, dorsal-mounted countdown dial, and concealed deactivation mechanism as the MH82. However, the similarities between the two grenades end at their modes of operation.

The Smoke Grenade’s steel casing has several emission holes at the top and bottom to disperse smoke after ignition. The core contains the two-component "smoke mix" embedded as seperated microglobules in a suppressive matrix that doubles as a dispersion charge. This matrix can be triggered to rapidly oxidize by applying an electric current, causing the two components to mix and pushing the thick smoke out of the emission holes. Soldiers should note that the reaction does not rely on atmospheric oxygen, so trying to douse the reaction using standard fire-extinguishing methods will show no effect.

The M18's payload of colored smoke mixture creates a thick enough smoke to provide cover during a combat mission. This allows operatives to disembark from a transport under cover in relative safety, or provide smokescreens for exposed flanks during a withdrawal. The Smoke Grenade can also be used offensively, causing disorientation by limiting visual references. In confined quarters such as building interiors, the use of the M18 in this capacity is particularly effective. Attention should be given to the fact that visibility will also be impaired for friendly units.

"Help! I can't see that stupid Alien anymoouuuuargh." - transcript of radio transmission recording, recruit Brian Wonky, after using a smoke grenade to "cover my advance and show that critter who's boss"

Operatives are advised to avoid holding the M18 during smoke dispersion as it represents a burn hazard. <should this stay?> Also note that the smoke displaces normal air, including oxygen. While breathing is still possible even inside thick smoke screens, prolonged exposure can cause dizziness, headaches and potentially loss of consciousness.
Using the Smoke Grenade in poorly ventilated areas without proper gear is strongly discouraged by the manufacturer.


Edited by Moriarty, 20 August 2005 - 12:11 PM.

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#40 kafros

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 02:55 PM

SMOKE GRENADE
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Equipment/Smoke Grenade

The M18 Smoke Grenade can be used for ground-to-ground and ground-to-air signaling, landing zone marking, and providing cover for unit movement in combat situations; the latter will most certainly make the Smoke Grenade a valuable asset to X-Corps ground operations.

In many ways, the M18 Smoke Grenade is similar to the MH82 Fragmentation Grenade. The M18 shares the same time-adjustable fuse, dorsal-mounted countdown dial, and concealed deactivation mechanism as the MH82. However, the similarities between the two grenades end at their modes of operation.

The Smoke Grenade’s steel casing has several emission holes at the top and bottom to disperse smoke after ignition. The core contains the two-component "smoke mix" embedded as seperated microglobules in a suppressive matrix that doubles as a dispersion charge. This matrix can be triggered to rapidly oxidize by applying an electric current, causing the two components to mix and pushing the thick smoke out of the emission holes. Soldiers should note that the reaction does not rely on atmospheric oxygen, so trying to douse the reaction using standard fire-extinguishing methods will show no effect.

The M18's payload of colored smoke mixture creates a thick enough smoke to provide cover during a combat mission. This allows operatives to disembark from a transport under cover in relative safety, or provide smokescreens for exposed flanks during a withdrawal. The Smoke Grenade can also be used offensively, causing disorientation by limiting visual references. In confined quarters such as building interiors, the use of the M18 in this capacity is particularly effective. Attention should be given to the fact that visibility will also be impaired for friendly units.

Operatives are advised to avoid holding the M18 during smoke dispersion as it represents a burn hazard. Also note that the smoke displaces normal air, including oxygen. While breathing is still possible even inside thick smoke screens, prolonged exposure can cause dizziness, headaches and potentially loss of consciousness.
Using the Smoke Grenade in poorly ventilated areas without proper gear is strongly discouraged by the manufacturer.

"Help! I can't see that stupid lamer anymoouuuuargh." -Audio report of disqualified recruit Brian Wonky while training, after using a smoke grenade to "cover my advance and show that lamer who's the boss, eat my paintballs!"


I think burn hazard should stay. Eye or skin burns don't have to lower your HP or anything, but indeed that would probably decrease your accuracy a bit. The accurancy will indeed decrease, so no problem :D

And, that fluffy shouldn't work. For example, I NEVER use smoke grenades, so how has a soldier of mine used one in a battlefield situation against an alien? Maybe alter it for "training" (although that also confuses, are X-Corps soldiers training?), so I put it in a scene where he was training in a paintball field against other recruits

#41 Moriarty

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Posted 20 August 2005 - 03:33 PM

I agree that the fluff isn't great. Someone will have to write a better one :)
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#42 kafros

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 09:41 AM

Well, I like the new paintball-version :)

#2:

"Wanna know what aliens do when a rookie throws a grenade at them? They pull out the safety pin, and throw it right back!" ~ Sergeant Miiles Durton trying to be funny


#3:

Private Jerkins: "Man have I been dying for a smoke since I got here. Good thing I smuggled in these cigarette!"
*Sargey Bargey bursts through the door*
Sargey Bargey: "What in the SAM heck is that smell and all this smoke!?!?!"
Private Jerkins: "UMMMM, accidental Smoke Grenade discharge, SIR!!! I was just tryin to put it out before it consumed the whole facility!"
Sargey Bargey: "By goley you're a HERO!"


#4:

"Man, am I the only one who thinks these smoke-nades kinda look like nice cold beers?"
"..."
"Yo, Chambers, c'mere! Ya wanna beer?"
- overheard in the Barracks


Off-topic:
Have you seen this fluff?

"I love my guns!" - rookie Thomas Jeffy explaining *traces of his DNA* in the long rifle *barrels*

Hey! There are some minors in these forums, think of them! :P

#43 Blehm 98

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 11:42 AM

...... i have to say whoever came up with that was obviously joking way too much

Smoke Grendes aren't an easy text to fluff
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Posted 21 August 2005 - 01:52 PM

SMOKE GRENADE
X-Net://Pegasus.net/Equipment/Smoke Grenade

The M18 Smoke Grenade can be used for ground-to-ground and ground-to-air signaling, landing zone marking, and providing cover for unit movement in combat situations; the latter will most certainly make the Smoke Grenade a valuable asset to X-Corps ground operations.

In many ways, the M18 Smoke Grenade is similar to the MH82 Fragmentation Grenade. The M18 shares the same time-adjustable fuse, dorsal-mounted countdown dial, and concealed deactivation mechanism as the MH82. However, the similarities between the two grenades end at their modes of operation.

The Smoke Grenade’s steel casing has several emission holes at the top and bottom to disperse smoke after ignition. The core contains the two-component "smoke mix" embedded as seperated microglobules in a suppressive matrix that doubles as a dispersion charge. This matrix can be triggered to rapidly oxidize by applying an electric current, causing the two components to mix and pushing the thick smoke out of the emission holes. Soldiers should note that the reaction does not rely on atmospheric oxygen, so trying to douse the reaction using standard fire-extinguishing methods will show no effect.

The M18's payload of colored smoke mixture creates a thick enough smoke to provide cover during a combat mission. This allows operatives to disembark from a transport under cover in relative safety, or provide smokescreens for exposed flanks during a withdrawal. The Smoke Grenade can also be used offensively, causing disorientation by limiting visual references. In confined quarters such as building interiors, the use of the M18 in this capacity is particularly effective. Attention should be given to the fact that visibility will also be impaired for friendly units.

Operatives are advised to avoid holding the M18 during smoke dispersion as it represents a burn hazard. Also note that the smoke displaces normal air, including oxygen. While breathing is still possible even inside thick smoke screens, prolonged exposure can cause dizziness, headaches and potentially loss of consciousness.
Using the Smoke Grenade in poorly ventilated areas without proper gear is strongly discouraged by the manufacturer.

"Help! I can't see that stupid lamer anymoouuuuargh." -Audio report of disqualified recruit Brian Wonky while training, after using a smoke grenade to "cover my advance and show that lamer who's the boss, eat my paintballs!"


I think this text is complete, any more comments?
The fluff will work just fine, I assume the X-Corps do train, I don't think they for example, drop them on the battlefield without ever using a Laser Rifle before, that would be a serious tactical mistake. Also, the part about the burn, we'll leave it for now, we might introduce some changes into the battlescape later :) (when we have one, anyway :P)

#45 kafros

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Posted 21 August 2005 - 04:49 PM

IT COMPILES! SHIP IT! :Hyper: :Hyper: :Hyper:


A programmer's joke :P.

I think it's ready :)

#46 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 22 October 2005 - 01:01 PM

Good then, completed :)