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#1 Judeau

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 05:03 PM

i've managed to get a little system in for calculating relative height of the impact to the charachter
affected by crouching as well

should i implement that on the current source?
and is it an useful feature?

i could implement feet doing less damage, and so on
i've also come up with a different armor formula
and light stunning damage from normal damage
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#2 nachtwolf

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 05:29 PM

i've managed to get a little system in for calculating relative height of the impact to the charachter
affected by crouching as well

should i implement that on the current source?
and is it an useful feature?

i could implement feet doing less damage, and so on
i've also come up with a different armor formula
and light stunning damage from normal damage

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I like the idea of location damage.

Did you finetune the aiming too (vertical)? cause firing at a soldier which is on a step or object is sometimes hard to do since you have to aim at a given level and either shoot too high or too low.

Anyway, I think you should talk about this to the magical keeper of the source... Serge.

Edited by nachtwolf, 09 February 2006 - 05:30 PM.

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#3 Sporb

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 06:43 PM

could we add head armour then? i hate it when some fool gets a fluke headshot when hw was aiming for me feet. I'd love to see a manual aim style introduced where you can move the cursor with 100% accuracy

#4 Hobbes

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 07:00 PM

could we add head armour then? i hate it when some fool gets a fluke headshot when hw was aiming for me feet. I'd love to see a manual aim style introduced where you can move the cursor with 100% accuracy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


There are no headshots. Although units have heads the only places you hit are front, sides, back and under.

@Nachtwolf: Precise aiming isn't meant to improve the accuracy. No matter how much you point the shot it may still miss the target completely.

Edited by Hobbes, 09 February 2006 - 07:02 PM.


#5 nachtwolf

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 07:21 PM

@Nachtwolf: Precise aiming isn't meant to improve the accuracy. No matter how much you point the shot it may still miss the target completely.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yup but if you aim in the middle of the torso your odds are 50% better than if you aim over the head or at the feet. It's a matter of exposed area, not a matter of weapon accuracy.

Let me explain :

Let's say a soldier is exactly between two levels (1 and 2)..

You can aim right on top of his head (middle of level 2), or right at his feet (middle of level 1)... either choice, if you miss by 2 mm in the wrong direction (up or down), you miss.

Now this soldier is on the ground, with no elevation (normal level 1)

You aim at his level (middle of level 1) so you actually aim at the center of his torso, if you miss by 2mm in any direction, you hit him anyway.
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#6 Hobbes

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 07:30 PM

You're right, I didn't read carefully the entire thread and thought you were speaking about something else. Sorry.

#7 Sporb

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 08:19 PM

But if there is no location damage , whats this for?

#8 nachtwolf

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 08:23 PM

But if there is no location damage , whats this for?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what is it, may I ask...
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#9 Sporb

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 08:27 PM

it appears at first glance, to be a manual aim system for manually selecting a body part for your soldier to aim for. Im not entirely sure if it really does anything but it's there

#10 nachtwolf

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 08:43 PM

Ok I think this feature is a bit too well hidden... Let's get some usability in there boys!
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#11 Hobbes

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 08:54 PM

This is what the readme_en file of the beta says:

Left SHIFT  Allows precise aiming if held down while ordering a soldier to
            shoot with the left mouse button. It will show a box with squares
            ordered like this:  3 6 9 12
                                2 5 8 11
                                1 4 7 10
            The order reflects the vertical disposition of the unit/object
            inside the target box: 1 corresponds to the lowest level of the
            square you're firing at, usually it is occupied with the floor,
            going upwards until 12, which is the highest level.


Basically precise aiming is used when part of a target is blocked by an object/wall. For instance, when a unit is standing on the lower part of a stair if the shot heads for the lower portion (1-5 squares) it will hit the stair instead of the legs. If you use precise aiming the boxes will show not only the 3D shape of the unit but also the shape of the object, so it allows you to fire at level that isn't occupied also by terrain (on this case, squares 7-12, for instance).
But precise aiming doesn't increase the accuracy. Even if the shot hits the target box it might miss and hit the bottom squares, so it is better to either use snap/aimed to make sure it will hit the unit instead of the terrain.
Another use for precise aiming is when a target is on 2nd level at some distance and you are firing from first level with a wall halfway inbetween. To avoid the shot from hitting the wall you can aim at the top of the unit. This also applies to when both shooter and target are at the same level and there are obstacles that half cover the path to the target. You will need some guessing to figure out how tall the object is in order for the shot to avoid it.
And finally, you can use precise aiming to easily blast holes through fences. Stand close to the fence and place the aiming cursor on the box containing the square or, if the unit is already standing on that box, aim at the box to where you want to move. Choose the 2-3 boxes and the unit will fire downwards, clearing the fence.

The readme_en doesn't cover this in detail but it is only meant to explain the basics. Any suggestions, other than me including this on my strategy guide?

Edited by Hobbes, 09 February 2006 - 09:07 PM.


#12 Sporb

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Posted 09 February 2006 - 10:17 PM

It'd be neat if we could somhow improve these features for certain weapons. Giving them special abilities if you will. Perhaps a weapon with a laser mounted would have a permanant LOF line while a scoped weapon could have more controll over the area the bullet will hit

#13 Judeau

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 02:39 AM

people, i tested if it works before i posted
i can add different effects for causing different parts damage

for example shooting in the foot could decrease energy/stamina
head could decrease TU , and accuracy + add stun damage
arm could decrease current TUs and max TUs( breaking a bone usually causes someone to be less dextrous )
stomach could cause loss of morale by a larger amount

this would of course work from a certain level of damage, so armor defends you from such problems

of course i can add damage modifiers, so hitting feet and arms does less damage then chest, and head does more
gimme some other suggestions

i've also managed to make a skin ability modifier
like : mutons get more strength and health, sectoids have higher accuracy but less health and strength

such things
gimme your ideas

and more control over where it hits?
maybe a higher accuracy ^_^
the shift version, i've always found it an interesting function, and i though it actually increased damage depending on area >.<
and when i found it didn't , i immediately added that possibility

Edited by Judeau, 10 February 2006 - 02:41 AM.

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#14 Sporb

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 04:03 AM

i like the sound of what you are suggesting Judeau. Ive always thought certain skins deserved different stat limits. Mutons should have more strength and Zombie should have a huge amount of health but very little stamina and aim.

I also think it'd be cool if certain weapons had special effects associated with them. A bullet for instance, would cause bleeding or fatal wounds while plasma would do more damage but seal a wound shut via heat. A heavy bomb wouldnt maim as much as a frag grenade would but it would add stun damage too.

Edited by Sporb, 10 February 2006 - 04:04 AM.


#15 Serge

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 05:57 AM

Something like this is also suggested here: http://ufo2k.lxnt.in...view.php?id=195 (and check related issues too). Forum is good for discussion, but unfortunately forum threads tend to sink and are quite hard to find later.
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#16 Judeau

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 07:12 AM

Something like this is also suggested here: http://ufo2k.lxnt.in...view.php?id=195 (and check related issues too). Forum is good for discussion, but unfortunately forum threads tend to sink and are quite hard to find later.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


i see
i think i'll implement the locational damage and ailments on the current revision

if you have any other features people really want, do tell
i like the things i'm hearing so far though

serge, could you post what things should be implemented here?
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#17 Judeau

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 11:18 AM

Headshots don't actually really work in real life. You're more likely to aim for the body as you have a higher chance of hitting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Unless your a sniper.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


or knifing someone in the head/ standing a few paces away

right, implemented status effects

shot into the arms:
TU count by 10 , minimum 20
drops weapon from that arm
decreases strength by 5 with a minimum of 10
multiplies damage by 0.75

shot into the legs:
decreases energy by 10, minimum 20
multiplies damage by 0.35

shooting head:
multiplies damage by 2.00
decreases accuracy by half
stunning damage = damage / 2 + 10

shooting anywhere causes a loss of maxhp and some normal hp + the pierce getting through
head : 20 damage, half of which to maxhealth
torso : 6 damage, half of which to maxhealth
arms : 2 damage, half of which to maxhealth
legs : 4 damage, half of which to maxhealth

maxhealth minimum = 10

i implemented the maxhp decreases for when medkits come in
getting shot into the head can't be easily fixed to 100% >.<

===============================================

as there isn't really a topic in the bug tracker,
need me to make one?

Edited by Judeau, 10 February 2006 - 05:54 PM.

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#18 Hobbes

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 02:30 PM

Judeau, how would damage affect armor in your system? Is it similar to the method used by the original game?

This page of the UFOpaedia (a wiki for X-COM) might be useful because it describes the X-COM system for injuries: Fatal Wounds

There's a topic on bugtracker concerning Damage and Race Modifiers that describes the current damage system and what X-COM used. You can see it here.

#19 Judeau

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 03:20 PM

Judeau, how would damage affect armor in your system? Is it similar to the method used by the original game?

This page of the UFOpaedia (a wiki for X-COM) might be useful because it describes the X-COM system for injuries: Fatal Wounds

There's a topic on bugtracker concerning Damage and Race Modifiers that describes the current damage system and what X-COM used. You can see it here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


the wound causing is only done from a pierce threshold

   float armorcount;
    armorcount = *armor;

    if (armorcount >= pierce * 0.5) {
  if( armorcount > pierce )*armor -= pierce * 0.33 * ( 1 / ( armorcount / pierce )) + 5;
  else *armor -= armorcount * 0.25 * ( 1 / ( armorcount / pierce )) + 5;
  if( armorcount > pierce )pierce -= pierce * ( armorcount / pierce ) * 1.25 - 3;
  else pierce -= pierce * ( armorcount / pierce ) * 1.5 - 10;
     if( *armor > armorcount )*armor = 0;
   	 if( pierce < 0 )pierce = 0;
   	 ud.CurStun += pierce + 3;
        return hitloc;
    }

    pierce -= pierce * 0.9 * ( armorcount / pierce );
    *armor -= pierce * 0.25;
    if( *armor > armorcount )*armor = 0;
    if( pierce < 0 )pierce = 0;
    ud.CurStun += pierce * 1.5;
    return hitloc;

Edited by Judeau, 10 February 2006 - 03:22 PM.

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#20 Judeau

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 08:53 AM

... Because of course, Wikipedia is a far more accurate source than military training. You fool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


bloody heck, stop the bickering will you?
locational damage is a nice touch
and having headshots, low chance, but critical damage is a nice feature

no need to tell me they aren't very useful unless your target is keeping someone hostage

also, when trying to tell someone they're wrong in your opinion
don't be a bitch about it

Eep: Wrong. Even snipers will normally go for the trunk. This is because the head is a tiny target, and if you miss and alert the target it will be hard to shoot them again.

You fail.

the eep: wrong and you fail are childish and bitchy

Edited by Judeau, 11 February 2006 - 08:56 AM.

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#21 Blehm 98

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 10:15 AM

1) Has anyone ever heard of 'accidental' head shots, where you are shooting and happen to hit the head? There you go, i don't see why those wouldn't do more damage, regardless of whether or not it was on purpose.
2) In many cases snipers do shoot at the head, as the head is about a fourth the size of the body, but as long as the target isn't moving too fast (which makes just about any shot with a sniper rifle impossible, unless you are very good) the head isn't all that difficult to hit. Once you get to longer ranges, or if you have a smaller caliber rifle, bullet drop will start to come into affect, making shots to the head very difficult and risky. This is because it is very difficult to shoot a sniper rifle with any speed, and if a critical target is only wounded, chances are that he won't get another chance.

Now, with an infantry rifle, such as the M-16, M4, etc., shooting for the head is rather silly, and pretty difficult to do when three or four shots to the body would do the same thing. However, as a sharpshooter it is possible to shoot for the head

There you go, my view on the head shot thingy, pointless an argument as it is, and to let you know i say locational damage is good
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#22 Kratos

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 01:41 PM

Blood Angel and Sectopod your posts have been deleted due to flaming.

Edited by Kratos, 11 February 2006 - 10:59 PM.


#23 Judeau

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Posted 11 February 2006 - 03:13 PM

http://ufo2000.lxnt....view.php?id=469

there we go, give suggestions for additional hit locations
additional racial damage modifiers are appreciated as well

Edited by Judeau, 12 February 2006 - 06:03 PM.

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#24 Junkhead

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Posted 14 February 2006 - 08:22 PM

When you look at it, it looks like separate body parts organized in a strange way, 1 being the feet, 12 being the very top of the head.

#25 Judeau

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 04:53 AM

When you look at it, it looks like separate body parts organized in a strange way, 1 being the feet, 12 being the very top of the head.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

explain a bit more clearly what you mean
as far as i see the head is from 9-12
legs are from 1-4/5
torso in between

Edited by Judeau, 15 February 2006 - 05:04 AM.

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#26 Hobbes

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 08:38 AM

explain a bit more clearly what you mean
as far as i see the head is from 9-12
legs are from 1-4/5
torso in between

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I've done some checking concerning the average human body proportions because when I looked at those you mentioned they looked odd.

Body height = 7 heads
Hip height = 4 heads (including pelvis = 1 head)

I don't think the game uses those proportions but a more close relation (for human units) would be:
Legs = 1-6
Pelvis (groin) = 6
Torso = 7-10
Head = 11-12

#27 Exo2000

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 10:19 AM

As far as I can tell, an armoured head tops off at 11 when crouching, 12 when standing. A standing soldier will have the tops of their shoulders included in 10. The center of the head should be 11.
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#28 nachtwolf

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 12:19 AM

BTW Judeau I noticed all the Judeau-assigned issues in the bug tracker, make sure you don't blow up with all this programming load :P
And if you need usability advices, my PM inbox is open.
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#29 Judeau

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 07:42 AM

BTW Judeau I noticed all the Judeau-assigned issues in the bug tracker, make sure you don't blow up with all this programming load  :P
And if you need usability advices, my PM inbox is open.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


heh, don't worry
i've got HE blocking working*everyone goes O_O* only thing to fix is a sync error, and i think i know the cause of that
these assigned tasks aren't even that hard ;)

btw, add jasper.vaneck@gmail.com to your msn, far easier then pming

things i can fix today : Throwing grenades: indicate obstacles in the path of the throw, Objects/Walls don't protect from explosions(without sync)

things that have been done : Request for Better Damage System/Allocation, Strength and throwing, Damage and Race Modifiers, Race Dependant Statistical Mins & Maximums, locational damage, bugged death cries of snakemen, ethereals, and floaters

other fixes i've done : stun damage displaying in barchart
fix i intend to do today : the explosion hit direction

however all these fixes aren't getting merged until the official beta is wihout CRC/NID errors, as you can understand. so many features can mess up the bug finding

however i do have my own build, so if you wanna test pm me, or add unto msn

Edited by Judeau, 16 February 2006 - 07:49 AM.

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#30 Judeau

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Posted 15 April 2006 - 04:20 AM

i am sorry to announce that i lost my experimental sources, only thing remaining is a few dated diff files

i might try and recode the features i had in, as i still have a workable exe(and knowledge of the sources), and i have a fairly good memory of what solutions i used

don't expect any releases from me anytme soon.

don't worry too much though, i had it bugless with true grenade launchers, locational damage, improved armour, true explosions

Attached Files


Edited by Judeau, 15 April 2006 - 04:25 AM.

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#31 Hobbes

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 12:52 PM

i am sorry to announce that i lost my experimental sources, only thing remaining is a few dated diff files

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I still have the .exe you sent me a while ago on my desktop. Would that help?

#32 Judeau

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 09:21 AM

i am sorry to announce that i lost my experimental sources, only thing remaining is a few dated diff files

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I still have the .exe you sent me a while ago on my desktop. Would that help?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


afraid not, can't get the sources from the exe
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#33 Kratos

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Posted 18 April 2006 - 02:36 PM

Not even decompilation? Damn.

It's ok though, all of us that tested your stuff know you worked hard. =b

#34 Judeau

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Posted 26 April 2006 - 02:00 PM

Not even decompilation? Damn.

It's ok though, all of us that tested your stuff know you worked hard. =b

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


well stuff i got to work in the lost version :
loc damage and different effects
explosions* hmm, i coded this too quickly and carelessly, my thoughts on this are that i'll use the same basic system, but i'll add some more error checking*
throwing/launching paths displayed
double-wielding weapons of the same type
launcher weaponry* i had the range, and angle of firing the weapon defined in lua *
racial stats*although limited, i did have specific modifiers against types of damage dependant on armor/race*
throwing range limited by weight/strength/throwing skill, and the grenades hitting the "ceiling" of a level was fixed

thank god i have good memory on the methods i used, and several posts with code i used in them, along with one VERY useful diff

heh, i'll be happy to work my donkey off soon :P
exams are approaching, almost done with school, next week a holliday, then 2 weeks to the exams

i'm looking forward to the exams :D

i'll redo lots of stuff, and do it even better B)

i've just been inspired by seeing the rate at which blender bugfixes are commited

Edited by Judeau, 26 April 2006 - 02:00 PM.

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