Jump to content


Photo

Psionic skill improvement in battle


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 erasmus_b_dragon

erasmus_b_dragon

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 28 October 2010 - 05:02 PM

Obviously, multiple psi attacks give you more psi improvement. Since a successful mind control attack makes the target un-attackable for that turn, repeated panic attacks on a single target alien can give you more improvement than mind control. However, at the beginning of a battle, mind control is more useful, to make them search for other aliens, kill them, or disarm themselves.

See http://www.ufopaedia...itle=Experience

You are supposed to get the max improvement from 11 "points" where 1 point is awarded for an unsuccessful psi attack and 3 points for a successful one. OK, suppose 3 of your psi-amp-equipped soldiers each make 3 panic attacks (9 total) on the same alien on the same turn and the alien alien panics at the end of the turn. I would guess that one of those attacks would be awarded 3 points and 8 of them would be awarded 1 point each. Or does the game instantly determine whether that attack is "successful" and award either 1 or 3 points, no matter how any psi attacks occur on that alien after that? Or, if the alien panics at the end of the turn, do all 9 panic attacks get 3 points each?

One way this might be a probem is, if 3 panic attacks = 9 points and a soldier gets 9 points for 28 turns, that would be 258 points, which, because of the DOS limit of 255 for an 8 bit number, would count as only 3 points.

Related: Even after you mind control an alien and have it throw its weapon, it still can have, say, a grenade in its inventory, so just because its hands are empty doesn't mean it can't kill you. Once an alien is mind controlled, what seems to happen is that alien is under control until the start of your next turn. So if you successfully mind control an alien every turn, it will never have any time to use any weapons against humans. Does that sound right?
John Locke: "Don't tell me what I can't do!"

#2 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 28 October 2010 - 11:04 PM

You are supposed to get the max improvement from 11 "points" where 1 point is awarded for an unsuccessful psi attack and 3 points for a successful one. OK, suppose 3 of your psi-amp-equipped soldiers each make 3 panic attacks (9 total) on the same alien on the same turn and the alien alien panics at the end of the turn. I would guess that one of those attacks would be awarded 3 points and 8 of them would be awarded 1 point each. Or does the game instantly determine whether that attack is "successful" and award either 1 or 3 points, no matter how any psi attacks occur on that alien after that? Or, if the alien panics at the end of the turn, do all 9 panic attacks get 3 points each?


3 usage points are awarded on any successful attempt. So yes, if all three panic attacks work, then you get 9 points in total.

As long as the panic attempt works and the target's morale is lowered (0 morale counts), then it's treated as a 3 point increment. The alien doesn't even have to panic at the end of the turn for it to count.

To avoid the loss of the high-bit, just moderate your psi usage to what is needed. I don't think the programmers expected players to go overboard with the actions, since there aren't that many aliens that you would need to perform over 255 actions on per mission.

Related: Even after you mind control an alien and have it throw its weapon, it still can have, say, a grenade in its inventory, so just because its hands are empty doesn't mean it can't kill you. Once an alien is mind controlled, what seems to happen is that alien is under control until the start of your next turn. So if you successfully mind control an alien every turn, it will never have any time to use any weapons against humans. Does that sound right?


I imagine if you re-mind-controlled the unit immediately, then it won't have a chance to act. You've probably seen the same thing in action with your soldiers if you've had some really low psi strength users on the team. You almost never get them back again once they are controlled.

Now, in the case of not mind controlling it immediately, I forget if the alien has its TU bar filled to 100% at the start of your turn because it was on your side, or if it remains what it was when you ended the turn. You'd need to check with a mind probe to be sure.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 28 October 2010 - 11:14 PM.

Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#3 erasmus_b_dragon

erasmus_b_dragon

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 30 October 2010 - 10:34 AM

3 usage points are awarded on any successful attempt. So yes, if all three panic attacks work, then you get 9 points in total.

As long as the panic attempt works and the target's morale is lowered (0 morale counts), then it's treated as a 3 point increment. The alien doesn't even have to panic at the end of the turn for it to count.

......

Now, in the case of not mind controlling it immediately, I forget if the alien has its TU bar filled to 100% at the start of your turn because it was on your side, or if it remains what it was when you ended the turn. You'd need to check with a mind probe to be sure.

- NKF


Thanks. Let's say some of my soldiers have good psychic abilities and others need a lot of improvement. I want to use multiple panic attacks on an alien (the last one alive) to boost their psychic improvement. The alien as been previously mind controlled and has no visible weapons.

The problem with using only panic attacks is that you don't know if they work until the next turn (when it's possible the alien will pull out a grenade and kill anybody in the blast radius). Mind control after the multiple panic attacks indicates instant success/failure, but all those panic attacks you did before that may be "unsuccessful," (because the alien won't panic), and so you would get only one point for each panic attack on that alien.

As you suggest, using a mind probe would show if the TUs are zero, but if they were already zero you could not determine if those panic attacks were "successful."

So here are some alternatives:

1) Use pure panic attacks. You won't know if the alien is still dangerous until end of turn, unless you use a mind probe. But you will know how many psi improvement points you get. (The reason for killing or stunning all the others, is that when you see "Snakeman soldier has panicked" you know that it wasn't caused by the other snakeman getting depressed, and your guys get 3 points per attack.)

2)Use multiple panic attacks followed by mind control by your soldiers with stronger psi abilities. Mind control gives you instant status, so if all mind controls fail, you could just walk up next to the alien and shoot it or stun it. But I can't be sure how many points the panic attacks get.

3) Mind control the alien if necessary, then stun it so it will be truly disarmed, then use a medi-kit to revive it (does that work?), and then panic it to your heart's content, for enough turns for everybody to get at least 11 points.

4) Similar to #3. Xcom1 only. Mind control it, then go to the inventory of one of the humans, and follow the chain to the alien's inventory. Drop everything on the ground and proceed with panic attacks on the next turn. Some might say this is cheating, but I disagree. Mind control means you control its mind, not just its hands. I think it's a bug in the other versions of Xcom that don't allow you to access the inventory.
John Locke: "Don't tell me what I can't do!"

#4 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 30 October 2010 - 09:36 PM

The easiest way for you to actively train the psi stats is probably not to try and expect to get the full 11 actions right off. Do a dozen or so panic attacks and work with it. Your initial gains will be lower than if you were to do the exact 11+ successful actions, but it just gets easier and easier with each mission.

Testing to see how easy you can mind control the test subject is also a good way to determine your success rate, since mind control is harder than panic.

One other thing that could make your life easier is to go for Muton soldiers. I can't remember the exact number, but they have less than 30 psi strength and no skill to back it up.

In TFTD, you can disarm aliens by stunning them and waking them up. I'd use the thermal tazer instead of the thermal shok bombs, since they do way too much stun damage.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 30 October 2010 - 09:41 PM.

Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#5 erasmus_b_dragon

erasmus_b_dragon

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 31 October 2010 - 02:18 PM

The easiest way for you to actively train the psi stats is probably not to try and expect to get the full 11 actions right off. Do a dozen or so panic attacks and work with it.


Thanks.

Maybe I didn't understand what you wrote in a previous post: "As long as the panic attempt works and the target's morale is lowered (0 morale counts), then it's treated as a 3 point increment. The alien doesn't even have to panic at the end of the turn for it to count." I thought that meant that even if a rookie made 3 panic attacks that would have been unsuccessful, if another soldier does a successful panic panic attack on that same alien on the same turn, all panic attacks on that alien count as successful. But I am guessing that's not what you meant.

So when you have multiple panic attacks on the same alien on a single turn, it's impossible to calculate exactly how many "points" (not psi ability increase -- see below) you earned? (Mind control attacks, on the other hand, display instant status.)

Do a dozen or so panic attacks and work with it. Your initial gains will be lower than if you were to do the exact 11+ successful actions, but it just gets easier and easier with each mission.


Hmm, as always, I sincerely appreciate your replies, but I think that contradicts the UFOPEDIA article http://www.ufopaedia...rience_Training which says that 11 unsuccessful attacks gives you the max 11 points (not +11 psychic improvement, but +2 to +6 psychic improvement), which is exactly the same chance as 11 successful attacks.

The reason panic attacks are more efficient than mind control for psi improvement is that a single successful mind control attack stops all further psi attacks on that alien for the current turn.

Bottom line: If a soldier does at least a total 11 panic attacks (and no mind control attempts) during a battle, he/she will get the max chance of psi improvement, but less than 11 attacks are not guaranteed to yield the max chance of improvement. And you need only one live alien to accomplish this.
John Locke: "Don't tell me what I can't do!"

#6 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 31 October 2010 - 11:36 PM

So when you have multiple panic attacks on the same alien on a single turn, it's impossible to calculate exactly how many "points" (not psi ability increase -- see below) you earned? (Mind control attacks, on the other hand, display instant status.)


This is exactly it, there's no way to tell for sure. You can use the mind probe initially, but once it reaches 0, it's impossible to tell whether any of the attempts have succeeded.


Hmm, as always, I sincerely appreciate your replies, but I think that contradicts the UFOPEDIA article http://www.ufopaedia...rience_Training which says that 11 unsuccessful attacks gives you the max 11 points (not +11 psychic improvement, but +2 to +6 psychic improvement), which is exactly the same chance as 11 successful attacks.


It doesn't quite contradict it entirely, as we are faced with the problem of not having any visual confirmation of the panic attempt. You see you are earning anywhere between 1 and 3 points per use of panic, so my suggestion of a half dozen attempts can yield you between 6 - 18 actions for a soldier that has low psi skill. You could refine this further and only do 4 attempts. This gives you between 4 - 12 actions.

The page that discusses experience mentions that 3 actions provides you with the best bang for your buck in terms of experience gain, earning you anywhere between 1 - 3 improvement points. So at a minimum of 4 actions you will fall under the 1 - 3 improvements points. But again, with the uncertainty of panic, you could reach 11 or 12 actions and get the full 2 -6 roll.

See this quote on the Experience page.

Psi actions are a special case. Successful panic or mind control (MC) attempts cause the psi experience counter to go up by three actions. Thus, you only need to do 4 successful MCs or panics to get all the psi skill points you're going to (4x3=an experience count of 12). But unsuccessful attempts only cause the counter to go up by one. So you need 11 failed attempts to get to the 2-6 roll range, just like for all other primary stats.


Really it's just to simplify the process and not worry about maximizing your improvement roll at the very start of the soldier's training. Even small increases can have a remarkable effect on the success rate, and the effects just snowball from there.


- NKF

Edited by NKF, 31 October 2010 - 11:44 PM.

Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#7 erasmus_b_dragon

erasmus_b_dragon

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 01 November 2010 - 02:49 PM



Hmm, as always, I sincerely appreciate your replies, but I think that contradicts the UFOPEDIA article http://www.ufopaedia...rience_Training which says that 11 unsuccessful attacks gives you the max 11 points (not +11 psychic improvement, but +2 to +6 psychic improvement), which is exactly the same chance as 11 successful attacks.


It doesn't quite contradict it entirely,


This is what I said was incorrect: "Do a dozen or so panic attacks and work with it. Your initial gains will be lower than if you were to do the exact 11+ successful actions." I am not sure what "initial gains" means, but according to the article, 11 unsuccessful psi attacks made by a single soldier yield exactly the same chance of psi improvement as 11 successful attacks. In fact, in your latest post I think you agree with me about this.

as we are faced with the problem of not having any visual confirmation of the panic attempt. You see you are earning anywhere between 1 and 3 points per use of panic, so my suggestion of a half dozen attempts can yield you between 6 - 18 actions for a soldier that has low psi skill. You could refine this further and only do 4 attempts. This gives you between 4 - 12 actions.


Yes, but why not do 11 panic attacks?

The page that discusses experience mentions that 3 actions provides you with the best bang for your buck in terms of experience gain, earning you anywhere between 1 - 3 improvement points. So at a minimum of 4 actions you will fall under the 1 - 3 improvements points.


For me, "best bang for the buck" is irrelevant.

But again, with the uncertainty of panic, you could reach 11 or 12 actions and get the full 2 -6 roll.


Exactly. Assuming the alien can't hurt you, in the context of an entire battle, I think a few more panic attacks so that you have 11 per psi-amp-equipped soldier are well worth it.
John Locke: "Don't tell me what I can't do!"

#8 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 02 November 2010 - 12:56 AM

This is what I said was incorrect: "Do a dozen or so panic attacks and work with it. Your initial gains will be lower than if you were to do the exact 11+ successful actions." I am not sure what "initial gains" means, but according to the article, 11 unsuccessful psi attacks made by a single soldier yield exactly the same chance of psi improvement as 11 successful attacks. In fact, in your latest post I think you agree with me about this.


Ah, I see the misunderstanding. Again, I was never contradicting it.

"Initial gains" in the context I was using it means whatever increases your soldiers are going to get when they first start exercising their psi skill stats will be lower in the method I was suggesting. But read on to see my reasoning.

Yes, but why not do 11 panic attacks?

For me, "best bang for the buck" is irrelevant.


Time efficiency basically.

Say you've got 10 brand new soldiers that have just been in the psi lab for a month and now you want to actively train their psi skill with panic.

With the 11-panic training regime, you're looking at 110 panic attacks needed to give all 10 of them between 11 - 33 actions per mission, getting the 2 - 6 points increase. Worst case scenario, only 2 points are earned. Best case, 6 points are earned.

With the 4-panic regime, you're looking at 40 panic attempts a mission, earning each trainee anywhere between 3 - 12 actions. The increments you are guaranteed are in the 1 - 3 range, but it could reach the 2 - 6 range due to the variability of the success rate. At worst a 1 point increase. At best anywhere between a 3 to 6 increment.

The 4-panic regime appears to be spreading the work over two missions to get the same potential rewards as one mission with the 11-panic regime. You are actually looking at better experience gains with two 1 - 3 rolls over a single 2 - 6 roll. You are also getting the interim benefits of increased psi skill for each mission. Even with a minimal increase, the chances of succeeding a panic attack just gets better and better, so you'll soon be naturally getting the 2- 6 increases with the 4 panic attempts.

Now, either method certainly works - not saying it doesn't. But what I've been proposing attempts to earn a potentially greater reward for less work rather than potentially earning a lesser reward for more work. Either way, you're still looking at a fair number of mouse clicks to get started before your trainees can dominate the opposition with psi.

Tip: Rather than go after the last alien on ordinary missions, a slightly riskier method that requires you to do all the training in the first 2 turns is to raid an alien base and hammer the first alien you spot with panic attacks. Have a strong psi soldier control it before the end of the turn and do a few more panic attacks on the next turn. Then flee from the base. You will get the experience rolls, but this method yields absolutely no monetary rewards (unless you bring the alien into the exit area with its weapons. No need to stun - you will still capture the equipment). Repeat as often as necessary. You can max you psi skill pretty quickly this way.

Whether you take the view that this is abusing an exploit or otherwise is quite irrelevant at this stage in the game once you have the psi-amp. ;)

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 02 November 2010 - 01:00 AM.

Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#9 erasmus_b_dragon

erasmus_b_dragon

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 12:47 AM

Yes, but why not do 11 panic attacks?


Time efficiency basically.

Say you've got 10 brand new soldiers that have just been in the psi lab for a month and now you want to actively train their psi skill with panic.

With the 11-panic training regime, you're looking at 110 panic attacks needed to give all 10 of them between 11 - 33 actions per mission, getting the 2 - 6 points increase. Worst case scenario, only 2 points are earned. Best case, 6 points are earned.

With the 4-panic regime, you're looking at 40 panic attempts a mission, earning each trainee anywhere between 3 - 12 actions. The increments you are guaranteed are in the 1 - 3 range, but it could reach the 2 - 6 range due to the variability of the success rate. At worst a 1 point increase. At best anywhere between a 3 to 6 increment.


I see what you mean. However, if you are "set up" to psi attack an alien at the end of a battle (for example, the alien has no ranged attack because it panicked, and your soldiers are at a safe distance), I don't consider 2 or 3 extra turns panicking the thing to be too much work.

Also, by the time I have psi-capable soldiers, I certainly will have several with at least 75 TUs, so they get 3 attacks per turn.

One idea here (obviously) is if you have 2 soldiers with (sufficient psi strength+ability depending on difficulty level), against most aliens, they will dominate the battle, and mind-controlled aliens will spot other aliens, and can be used as decoys to draw fire, so your troops are a lot safer in many ways. So I think psi skill advancement should be pushed as fast as possible in a single battle. Since most rookies' attacks fail, 11 attacks are surer for them.

The 4-panic regime appears to be spreading the work over two missions to get the same potential rewards as one mission with the 11-panic regime. You are actually looking at better experience gains with two 1 - 3 rolls over a single 2 - 6 roll.



I'm not sure what you meant to say, but two 1-3 rolls yield an average of 2x(2.0)=4.0 and one 2-6 roll yields an average of 4.0. Did you mean two turns with minimum 1-3 rolls and possibly 1-4 or 2-6?

You are also getting the interim benefits of increased psi skill for each mission. Even with a minimal increase, the chances of succeeding a panic attack just gets better and better, so you'll soon be naturally getting the 2- 6 increases with the 4 panic attempts.


That makes sense. The formula for panic attack success is a little tricky. AFAIK it does not explain what "distance" means. Anyway, 11 attacks per turn would be more necessary for rookies than soldiers with stronger psi skill.

Tip: Rather than go after the last alien on ordinary missions, a slightly riskier method that requires you to do all the training in the first 2 turns is to raid an alien base and hammer the first alien you spot with panic attacks. Have a strong psi soldier control it before the end of the turn and do a few more panic attacks on the next turn. Then flee from the base. You will get the experience rolls, but this method yields absolutely no monetary rewards (unless you bring the alien into the exit area with its weapons. No need to stun - you will still capture the equipment). Repeat as often as necessary. You can max you psi skill pretty quickly this way.


That would work I think. You could also do 11 attacks with weaker soldiers if you wanted (it takes some effort to locate the aliens initially). If you killed a few aliens on each raid to keep the score even (not sure what the penalty is for aborted mission), the game would keep spawning new ones for the next raid.

In reading the formulas, I also discovered that higher psychic strength (not just psi ability) increases your chances of successful psychic attacks. So another strategy is to psi-train as many soldiers a possible and pick the ones with 90+ (or as high as possible) psi strength for psi-amp training. For example, you could build 3 psi labs (30 soldiers) as soon as you researched it. Of course, you also have to have enough soldiers and living quarters ready on the first of the month after the psi labs were ready.
John Locke: "Don't tell me what I can't do!"

#10 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 02:19 AM

Range basically adjusts the strength of the attack by weakening or strengthening the attack depending on how far the user and the target are from each other. You can seemingly be perfectly safe from psi attack when you're standing at a certain distance, but you will suddenly be vulnerable when you get closer.

For psi strength, you can usually go a bit lower than 90 to achieve psi immunity. The lords of psi attacks, the ethereal commanders have 75 psi strength and 58 skill on superhuman. For them I'd say 80+ definitely to be on the safe side. You can actually get away with 75 psi strength against the other ranks. But for the commander, you should increase psi skill to well over 60 to best the its attack strength if you work off the psi formulas on the wiki. Psi skill is the equivalent of 20 extra psi strength points when it's at 100 skill.

For psi screening, what I normally do is have twice as much living space as psi lab space. One lot of soldiers are trained for a month and swapped out with a fresh batch of recruits every month. The ones that have had their evaluations can then be sieved for the desired psi strength levels, then send them off to what ever bases are needed. Sack the soldiers that aren't needed and hire more recruits to fill in for next month. This can get rather expensive after a while, but it's worth it to be able to build a psi immune team.

Also: There's no penalty from aborting a base attack unless any soldiers get killed or are left behind.

I'm not sure what you meant to say, but two 1-3 rolls yield an average of 2x(2.0)=4.0 and one 2-6 roll yields an average of 4.0. Did you mean two turns with minimum 1-3 rolls and possibly 1-4 or 2-6?


Just going off the probabilities. Similar argument behind the autoshot vs. single shot (or snap vs. aim) debates.

With one roll of 2 - 6, you're looking at a 20% chance of any one of the 5 possible values.

With the 1 -3 roll, you have a 33.33...% chance of getting any of the values each time. So with two rolls the chances of getting a combination of 2 is 11.11..%, a combination of 3 is 22.22..%, 4 is 33.33..%, 5 is 22.22..% and 6 is 11.11..%. All this isn't counting the possibility of reaching the 2 - 6 roll.

This means that in the worst case, it earns better mid-range values, but not so much the extremes. If you throw in the chances of getting the higher rolls, your actual earnings are potentially even higher.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 03 November 2010 - 02:37 AM.

Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#11 erasmus_b_dragon

erasmus_b_dragon

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 43 posts

Posted 03 November 2010 - 03:45 PM

For psi strength, you can usually go a bit lower than 90 to achieve psi immunity. The lords of psi attacks, the ethereal commanders have 75 psi strength and 58 skill on superhuman. For them I'd say 80+ definitely to be on the safe side. You can actually get away with 75 psi strength against the other ranks. But for the commander, you should increase psi skill to well over 60 to best the its attack strength if you work off the psi formulas on the wiki. Psi skill is the equivalent of 20 extra psi strength points when it's at 100 skill.


Thanks. I am confident that 80 psi strength is safe from alien psi attacks. My point was that 90+ psi strength should help a human soldier on its first psi attack combat mission to get more psi experience than a 80-psi-strength. I used some typical values for a psi-amp-novice (psi ability=20, alien psi strength=50, distance=20) and calculated that for a panic attack, with a human psi strength of 80, the probability of success was 7%, while with 90 psi strength I got 11% chance per attack:

Attack Strength (AS) = INT( Psi Strength * Psi Skill / 50 ) Attacker stats
Defense Strength (DS) = INT( Psi Strength + ( Psi Skill / 5 ) ) Defender stats

Attack Success (A%) = 100/56 * ( Constant + AS - DS - Distance )

where
Constant = 25 for Mind Control
45 for Panic

Also, for psi strength=90, psi skill =50, chance of successful mind control=45%, but only 35% chance with psi strength=80.

These are just examples , but according to the formula, 90 psi strength seems to give better chances of successful psi attacks than 80. That would come in very handy when psi-attacking a sectopod (100-116 psi strength).

This means that in the worst case, it earns better mid-range values, but not so much the extremes.


I don't think that the worst case produces "better" mid-range values, but it would produce a little more consistent mid-range values.

If you throw in the chances of getting the higher rolls, your actual earnings are potentially even higher.



True, but still less, on average, per mission, than 11 attacks, although, as we have discussed, later on that difference is almost insignificant. If you repeatedly attack a base, you avoid the disadvantage of waiting for an alien UFO to practice on. On the other hand, attacking UFOs can also provide an easier way to grab elerium, and miscellaneous booty. That's only if UFOs are relatively undamaged. I suppose you could attack both UFOs and the base.

There is no simple answer to which method is "better." I still prefer to use 11 attacks per soldier when they are just starting to use psi-amps. If I can find an alien base I can try multiple assaults on it (aborting the mission after I make some psi attacks and retreat to exit areas).

Edited by erasmus_b_dragon, 04 November 2010 - 12:27 PM.

John Locke: "Don't tell me what I can't do!"

#12 ranst4038

ranst4038

    Squaddie

  • Forum Members
  • PipPip
  • 4 posts

Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:55 PM

You have to change the file named labscrn.xcf in XcomUtil\flags to autoscrn.xcf to fix the Psi Screening after researching Psi Lab option.


"I would like to live just long enough to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next 10 generations that some favors come with too high a price.
I want to look up into your lifeless eyes and wave like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me? Mr Morden"
Vir Coto 2nd season; In the shadow of Z'ha'dum


#13 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:17 PM

You have to change the file named labscrn.xcf in XcomUtil\flags to autoscrn.xcf to fix the Psi Screening after researching Psi Lab option.

 

The discussions old, but from recollection it was completely about the gains you get after battle, so psi's already been screened. ;)

 

- NKF


Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#14 yarrow

yarrow

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 117 posts

Posted 10 April 2013 - 04:59 AM

For psi strength, you can usually go a bit lower than 90 to achieve psi
immunity. The lords of psi attacks, the ethereal commanders have 75 psi
strength and 58 skill on superhuman. For them I'd say 80+ definitely to
be on the safe side

-------------------------

well I checked this:

 

level: superhuman

setup:

soldier with 16 psi skill ( lowest possible, right after first psi month screen )

standing NEXT TO ethereal commander ( worst case scenario )

 

and results:

- mind control

immunity from 90+ psi strength ( 89 was mind controlled once, so it is possible )

- panic

no immunities ( even 100 was successully panicked )

 

I didn't checked the other psi skill values, so perhaps with 60+psi skill

panic immunity could be possible

BUT ...

with 90+ psi strenght and 60+ skill, you can mind control ethereal commander anyway

so what's the point of checking this case?

 

 

let me clarify, what ufopaedia says about experience:

Depending on how many combat "actions" your soldiers perform

-------------------------

for psi attacks it means ( in short ):

=> 1 failed psi attack counts as 1 combat psi action point ( aka psi experience )

=> 1 successful psi attack counts as 3 points

 

you need at least 11 psi experience points ( in total )

to get ALL possible stat increase you can get from that mission

it doesn't matter if you fail or success ( both do count!, 1 or 3 respectively of course )

 

panic attack has special success case:

it lowers morale, even below 0!

( but only for the purposes of panic attack success only, it is NOT displayed on screen )

later on the morale is hardcoded back to the 0-100 range ( and now IS displayed on the screen )

( that is why you see morale 0, even if your panic attack succeded )

technically this  a very simple line of code ( if( morale < 0) morale = 0; )

in that case, the only way to be sure is to hexcheck savedgame

 

I always aim to MIN ( yes, minimum ) psi experience points ( 11 )

needed to gain MAX possible stat increase ( 2 - 6 )

( bolsheviks named this wild, greedy capitalism :D )

 

yarrow


Edited by yarrow, 10 April 2013 - 05:51 AM.