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Poll: Do you load often? (399 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you load often?

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#101 Munkeh

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Posted 30 May 2008 - 12:49 PM

I'm an odd one.
I'll save every turn, or even after moving an individual fireteam, just in case the game freaks out (as it frequently does under dosbox, apparently).

But if I lose a man I'll usually carry on to the missions conclusion, and *then* load up from the beginning again, and try not to lose anyone.
It's good practice without being cheaty, but it does cause some problems with continuity. It's nice to have troops with a bit of a story behind them, but with all the reloading it can be hard to remember how that story goes....

I'll be more prone to this in the first couple of months though. Just until I've gotten my first teams' stats up enough to make things interesting. Once I'm doing well enough to transfer the veterans to new squads that need babysitting, the game seems to come into its own.

#102 Pscyon

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Posted 10 December 2008 - 08:49 PM

Oooh, look at this, months since anyone replied, years since topic was made ^.^

Currently, I only play TFTD, since I can't seem to get hold of a new Playstation version of UFO, and I find the computer versions without the snazzy music and cutscenes so inferior I refuse to play them, heh. Only played Apocalypse once years back, found it to be a horrid game (though I can't remember the reason) and vowed not to play it again until I've played through TFTD... I only recently figured out the silly research trees casually browsing gamefaqs and started playing again.

I save at start of month, start of mission, and at start of second part on colonies/sites. And tons of times in the off-chance I do one of them tanker/cruise ship missions... hate spending 30 turns locating the aliens, so reload once I know which deck they're on. Though usually I just land and abort those.

I load when I lose one of the first 8 soldiers, heh. I have them spread all over the place as the various squad commanders. I allow other soldiers to die, but keep upgrading my "super soldier veterans", even going as far as occasionally shooting them before ending the last turn, so their wound(s) make them stronger :P. I also load in those freak scenarios where I lose a funding nation to that one single "small" infiltration uso that gave me the slip. I mean, sheesh. I shoot down 10 of the damn things, including battlecruisers, and a scout convinces the nation I'm the bad guy? Not a chance....

#103 XIntoTheBlue

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Posted 17 January 2009 - 06:21 AM

I have a tendency myself to load often when I take too many casualties or something worse happens. Sometimes, I will allow heavy losses and carry on. I usually have my first, original base to be comprised of my most veteran soldiers and they tend to be my main response team while other teams of other bases take minor roles (so I don't care so much about reloading for them). Now I really want to try to start a new game without reloading (except for crashes and what not).

#104 Cristao

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Posted 06 May 2009 - 05:47 AM

I have a very intense savegame managing system. In G-Scape - I save every couple of days - game crashes - Also save before battles on G-Scape (crashes). In BattleScape - similar. I save on first turn and I load when i make an utter cockup like misclicking or my fave soldier dies ..

Edited by Cristao, 06 May 2009 - 05:48 AM.


#105 Warface

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Posted 07 September 2009 - 11:48 PM

Unless you want to fire your rocket and do a bit of sprinting on the side, there's generally no real penalty for loading the rocket you wish to use on the same turn that you use it, if you decide to stay on the same spot you were at the start of the turn.

One good way to avoid these mishaps (especially nasty with the blaster launcher - rare though it may be), is to use rocket launcher soldiers in a purely sniping capacity. That is, they hang back while the spotters rush on ahead to paint the targets for them.

Also, in heavy vegitation - don't hesitate to use the very same weapon you're worried about to make it safe again. ;)

- NKF


2 words. Alien. Bases.

p.s. Sorry for the 2 year reply time. I've been away, kidnapped by some other really popular, multiplayer, time- and life- consuming game. Inevitably though, X-Com wins.

#106 Xcommie

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 09:18 PM

Recently started playing UFO.Def again, after a hiatus as long as my time on MACs (8yrs)

After battling away with DOSBox, which made me smile at what I used to put up with, the result was worth it. In one combat mission, every other game just pales. I would only hope for updated graphics, but no messing with the formula. (Okay.. maybe let us be the intercept pilot too!)

I used to be a pretty bad saveholic, I've graduated these last few days to a mission saver. Generally have a tank lead the way and promptly level the entire zone with Auto-HE and grenades. I envisage my troopers just lock, load and burn it all down. Terribly good fun with the odd 'Auiiigghh!' from a alien being blown apart.

I may switch back to light weapons.. but I like BooM!

It's great to be back playing this game. Thanks to all the advice on the forums for getting it rolling again.

- Xcommie

#107 Lapoleon

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Posted 22 October 2009 - 08:38 AM

I have played UFO: Enemy Unknown once, with plenty of loads, since it was my first time the going was tough enough already. I then played a little bit of terror from the deep in the same way.
I just restarted a terror from the deep game (hurray for varying terror missions!) and in order to make myself care more about my soldiers and be careful with them I named them after friends/family etc. This however has the drawback that I got slightly too attached to them (You don't want to see yourself killed do you), so now I've got a small squad of me and my parents and brother who are not allowed to die, friends however don't have this much luck.

So my current reload policy is:
1: One of the lucky 4 dies
2: Massive slaughter of my squad in one round (I hate MC)

Still learning however

#108 Catnub

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Posted 31 October 2009 - 05:48 AM

Last time I returned to the game (about 6 years ago) I decided to play Ironman mode. I'll admit that I got discouraged and gave up on the game due to frustrations, it was just too hard for me at the time. I returned to the game again about half a year ago, and am doing much better this time. These are the key differences:
1) Learning how initiative works, especially the mutual surprise rule
2) Scouting more aggressively and always making sure to have sufficient firepower to take out any aliens spotted, ie. not scouting without coverage
3) Not becoming as attached to my soldiers, yet also making a bigger effort to keep rookies in front
4) Learning how experience works
5) Spreading soldiers out more and bleeding TU to curb damage from MC and Disrupter Pulse Launchers
6) Deploying chemical flares liberally and not being afraid of picking them up again (I thought aliens were also subject to darkness and that I'd be vulnerable when standing on a flare)
7) Learning how to get armour in a hurry
8) Learning to leave alien bases alone unless I'm struggling for points
9) Setting up a Gauss Craft Cannon manufacturing operation fast for generous and reliable bonus income
Please check out my TFTD Ironman video campaign here, I'm grateful for any comments!

#109 Karstedt

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 02:28 PM

Wow, I'm surprised how many people reload at each death... I only do it when I lose my skyranger. Heck, I keep 4 rookies in each away team just to absorb casualties.

#110 Gustarx

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 12:19 PM

I load and save a lot of times. I see it is an important way how to learn more about how I make and use decisions ingame, as also outside the game. Using save/load is for me a decision point, how to deal with the No-Return point-factor. When I played X-com, TFTD 1997-2001 I never played it to the final endgame. Playing X-com is for me not about 'winning' the game, but how to deal with the things, I engage ingame, where I can learn from and use outside the game. Since a month of 3 I play 'EU', with a lot of small steps, meaning, lots of saving/loads. Im now in the 3 month. Iv read something on these forums about the 'cheatiness' of saving/loading. Well, in my opinion, using knowledge from others could also be considered as a way of 'cheating'.

- if humanity would ever engage in future times 'hostile' intilligent live, would humans then research first the weapons of that specie, or would they want to learn more about the specie itself first?

So cuz of the fact lot of players use knowledge of others, they dont 'cheat', they make use of others to prepare themselfes for their 'own lessons in (playing)- life. Ingame save/load is a stragetical/ tactical 'point' (of no return) of how to play, learn, the game (of life). It can be considered as how to learn about the 'split second' in life, when u engage the other and use, or dont use some tools, or options, or make use of other ones, tools where 'weapons' could be considered as probably the most agressive 'tool', especially those items, tools, precisally designated to 'eliminate'. More or less each item could be used as 'weapon', so there is of course a difference in the kind of 'tools'. In my opinion there is also not much different between intillegent life on THIS planet, or from other universes included the species presented in the X-com-serie's or the other more and less intelligent lifes, species in other games. In the process u, or at least I do, I learn more about myself, what's critical in life, what are relative more the minor issue's.

- if humans would ever engage other species, including other humans, would their approach then to the other on forehand be that the other is 'hostile' ?

In my opinion we can learn lot from others, with&while gaming we learn as humankind more kind of approaches and how to prepare us for a lot of cases and occasions. I see the 'cmbt'-factor in lot of games today the underlying question of humans as well as humankind, how to deal with ourself as individual and as specie. The 'cmbt'-factor could be compared with 'how to stand for' ourselfes, as individu and as specie.


So ingame I make use a lot of the save/load-factor, as it is an unique game-ingredient to learn and grow as human. In probably the most ancient (war)game of all the (war)games I know, Chest, the best professional performing players note their turns: saving/loading isn't much different otherwise.



-----

Beside the form of Autisme I have, 'Syndrome of Asperger', Im also Dutch, so probably the 'word'-ing of my used English is a bit different then u might used to read. What Im also, more or less, trying to say in this post is don't bother to much about what others say about the 'cheatiness' of how to play the life and games u like to play. Of course there are rules, but as far as I know is the X-Com-serie more solo-orientated. It is possible to change the game to play as human the alienside, (where the human physically becomes the 'Enemy Unknown'). But then those two players or two teams, with one human as the role-player 'sergeant' to set the turns, have to agree more where saving/loading is one aspect of the new sets of rules then was probably intended in first instance and released, :-) .


Have nice further day and engagements, :- ) .


Gustarx

Edited by Gustarx, 30 June 2011 - 12:39 PM.


#111 Sorrow

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Posted 30 June 2011 - 02:49 PM

I load when I continue the game from the point I have saved before quitting. Also, I had reload twice because of bugs. Once my comp has turned on screensaver when I was playing and it crashed when I tried to return to game and once I got stuck in a tactical mission loop (game restarted tactical mission after winning).
I'm saving pretty often to avoid losing progress to bugs.

Other than that I'm not reloading - from gameplayfag point of view it just kills the challenge by removing all bad consequences of player's decisions and allowing him to build up a force of supersoldiers and from storyfag point of view it destroys the narrative. I'm in June 1999 and so far I have lost 3 Skyrangers, 3 tanks and 101 soldiers during 17 ground missions (I have killed 2-3 times more aliens, though). So far I have lost every alien base/large alien ship assault as simply there's too much aliens and psionics are very brutal.

EDIT:
One important thing that is added by not reloading is the ability to actually lose or win the game, not just finish it or abandon it.
I just lost one of my interceptors and got another one badly damaged when trying to intercept a very large UFO, and then lost a 14 man squad trying to assault a landed big UFO. A few days later when I bought a new Skyranger and were trying to fix my finances by manufacturing and selling stuff, aliens have assaulted my base. I only had a poor 10 man squad with conventional slug throwers, explosives and 2 plasma rifles.
They got overran by psykers and cyberdisks.
My last soldier lost his gun in panic and managed to kill 5 sectoids with grenades and explosives before running out of grenades and getting shot while trying to recover a plasma rifle.

Edited by Sorrow, 30 June 2011 - 06:46 PM.


#112 Gustarx

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 03:26 AM

Tns for ur reply Sorrow,

in addition to my previous post and reaction at your post, my thoughts on the issue have developped -a bit-.


I mean also, it doesn't really matter how much missions, games, u play, as humans we built further on what has been thought before. The devices used in Startrek to communicate, are now reality. So for playing X-com we, u, others and I, have the opportunity to think about the probability of how to interact and how to deal with other forms of intelligent lifes, and their likelyhood of their -(preferable) predictable- behaviour outside our global village, our planet. But, hé, on this planet does live a lot of intelligent lives we, or at least most humans, and most of them are male I presume, we engage still as The Aliens, The Enemy Unknowns. The Terror From The Deep comes from our deepest thoughts. So while playing we learn ourselfes how to manage the Unknown Contact with those Unknown Enemy's, ....

Thats why I voted in this forum first my gender and age, ;- ) .


In X-Com we can change time, we can save/load our games, we can set the difficulty-lvl, we can change the research-line, we can 'hack' in the deepest ' loops' of the game, the program, to create the environment we preferable like the most and feel comfortable in to play to engage The Other, The Alien. In fact, at, our under, our consciousness-lvl we work, adapt, add, change our own 'program of live', our own set of rules. I presume, or assume?, believe, we do this not only as individuals, but also for that of our specie. With gaming, especially the games (this one, but also onlinegames, like RuneScape), with a lot of opportunity's to set the own lvl, degrees, of self-steering, where we can alter the rules, we continous learn, adapt and grow. For me its not a miracle why most male prefer to play wargames. As male, in general, we haven't done otherwise for ages.



To bring it back to X-Com, each started new game, started on a new set of conditions, like lvl, used research-line, each new thought& decision about how to manage, to continue and proceed is built upon insights of others& yourself and with that previous mind-behaviour. I mean even the decision to change the research-line, or to research nothing, especially not the main 3 aliens (Navigator, Sectoid Leader, Floater Commander) is likelyhood from insights of the past and influences the game-style.


When I played about ten yrs ago TFTD at superhuman, for about 4 yrs, average more then 10 hrs a day, when I was 37-40 yrs old, I used lot of saved floppydisks of 1.44Mb, (the harddisk of 200 Mb was to small, so I had to, ;- ) ) with lot of saved games. With each own decision, strategical/tactical/logical (I mean did it feel, give me the thought it 'could' happen) I made and I was not 200% comfortable with I started over from or a previous saved point, or a complete new game. I came to Juny 1999 ingame. Then I had to abort the complete game for some yrs, cuz of a job in the ICT, where I had my 2nd burn-out. Then I played Runescape from about begin 2006 to begin this year. Since a month of 3 I play X-com as a new challenge once more, cuz of the feel Im more prepared and ready for it. Still I use some aspects of my own program how I like to play this particurlar game. I dont have job, nor school, so still got the more then 10 hrs time a day to play I had also 10 yrs ago. At the age of almost 50, I play now at beginnerslvl EU. I play 3 month and ingame Im halfway the 3 month. Iv set some own rules, I dont copy anylonger the saved games outside the game to an other directory. My thoughts, insights, comes also from other sources like saved thoughts of others in bookform Iv read.

What I wrote before I dont play to 'lose' or to 'win' this game but to learn from it and to share some insights of that process here.


:- )

Gustarx

#113 yarrow

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 11:03 AM

I do save frequently, as virtually everyone else

but consider this:
we humans, tend to learn mostly when we make mistakes by ourselfes
so ... if you reload, you just cut yourself from gaining experience

personally I play XCom in 3 ... 'modes' ^_^

1.) training
in this mode I reload often, no restrictions

this 'mode' I used especially in the past
when I was ... hmmm ... ( afraid to lost a soldier ? )
... not able to withstand ... that some things went bad

today used only for checking/verifying in-game details
making screen shots, and stuff like this


2.) normal
reload only when ... 'too many bad things' happens

simplest example of this is miss-click
( my personal hardest one, I just can't stand it :D )
another one:
half of squad is killed cause some rookie idiot missed his shot


3.) ironman
reload is restricted only to crashes or when I need to quit playing XCom
( like going back to get some sleep - everyone must do this at some point :D )

no reload when favourite soldier killed
( list goes on here )


in the past I was reloading like crazy, probably same as everyone else
but nowadays, I tend to play only superhuman ironman
not to complete, but just to play first 2-3 months of the game
( I guess I am addicted to XCom :D )

in my opinion, Ironman 'mode' is a true gameplay experience ( as authors intended to )
much better than with reloading ( again IMHO )

I have noticed that after my first few ( and lost ) Ironman runs:
- I tend to reload less often
- my tactical skill improved ( both geo- and battle-scape )
- I learned quite a lot of new things about XCom
- I started to use grenades/smoke grenades or incendiary ammo
and more

because of that ... I strongly recommend ... Ironman runs to ... eveyone
yes ... to everyone ... even novice players

veterans who played and finished XCom few times ( lets say 2+ times )
can probably benefit a little more, than novice players, but ...

... on the other side ofthe coin
I was much more furious, when I lost my whole squad
( than I probably would be, If I was novice player at that time )
on just a simple ... humble-mumble :D ... sectoid mission ( those damn medium scouts )

my point is, that even novice players
can take advantage from playing with no reloads


yarrow

#114 Sorrow

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Posted 01 July 2011 - 08:32 PM

To be honest, I never had a learning phase. I used to reload because I couldn't get over things not going like I intended, not because I was learning something. It was quite frustrating.

I was employing sound military since the beginning - I had the collectors edition boxed version that had a manual for both UFO and TFTD. It had tips on how to play the game and these tips included using smoke.

I use crazy amounts of smoke grenades lately. They allow cutting the battlefield into small parts and isolating each part.
So, I usually fight one alien with 3-4 soldiers and often I spot them before they spot me.

I learned that trick from FM 7-8 Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad.

#115 Fomka

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 12:14 PM

...
I learned that trick from FM 7-8 Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad.

I've just downloaded that field manual from direct link that google gave me — http://www.shu.edu/o...load/FM-7-8.pdf
The document is rather long (444 pages), modern (2002) and detailed (from what I've seen at first glance). There are several references to smoke usage in the manual, can you point to the one that is suitable fro X-COM situation?

And another question. Is the order "one soldier" > "buddy team (2-28. Withdrawal)" > "fire team" > "squad" > "platoon" right?

#116 Sorrow

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Posted 02 July 2011 - 12:23 PM

...
I learned that trick from FM 7-8 Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad.

I've just downloaded that field manual from direct link that google gave me — http://www.shu.edu/o...load/FM-7-8.pdf
The document is rather long (444 pages), modern (2002) and detailed (from what I've seen at first glance). There are several references to smoke usage in the manual, can you point to the one that is suitable fro X-COM situation?

I don't remember which. I just remember that generally, I used to just drop smoke grenades so that the smoke would cover my soldiers, but the book advices to put smoke on enemy positions or in direction of enemy positions, which is also much more effective in game - using smoke not just for immediate concealment of soldiers, but also for shaping the battlefield and isolating enemy units that would otherwise be able to effectively fire at soldiers.

I haven't read the whole book, but generally field manuals are very useful for wargaming.

And another question. Is the order "one soldier" > "buddy team (2-28. Withdrawal)" > "fire team" > "squad" > "platoon" right?

You mean unit sizes? Yes.

#117 NKF

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 02:57 AM

Gustarx, the choice to use save/reload can have many reasons and purposes.

As with human nature, we do try to learn in a safe environment and pick up wisdom from others to assist us and make us better. That's where we use the save/load facility to learn or just to casually play the game. Nothing wrong with that. And in some games, it's the only way to learn and get past the ridiculous over-hard challenges or puzzles that you have to get through to progress the story.

But it is also true of human nature to want to test ourselves. To push ourselves to the limits and see if what we thought to be impossible is possible. It's like taking away the training wheels from a bicycle.

None of this however is going to alter the fact that we will have gathered insight into the game and how it works each time we replay it. But even with all the shortcuts to getting high tech weapons and strategies on how to better manage the various aliens, we can still fall victim to bad luck thanks to the variability in the battles.

On the plus side, playing the tactical missions with ironman rules are difficult but do make for some rather exciting stories to tell afterwards. It can put you in many unusual scenarios that you would never normally dream of deliberately putting yourself in. And if these situations can be overcome despite any or all mistakes made along the way, then that's an achievement that you can take some pride in. Like losing your main headquarters for example. You can always reload and re-do the base attack until you win, or try and continue and see if you can revive X-Com with what funds you have left.

Really what's most important in whether we choose to use or abuse the save/reload facility is whether we are having fun. ;)

- NKF
Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

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#118 Sorrow

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Posted 05 July 2011 - 01:34 PM

The main theme of X-Com is the horror of war. The most important lesson is that war is a tragedy. No matter how skilled player is, no matter how good is the equipment, no matter how experienced he is, an individual X-Com soldier has ~0% chances of surviving the war when he is sent to action after an action.
In one moment, this soldier is a veteran of several missions with great reactions in power suit and a moment later he's squealing pitifully and falls dead in a mangled heap.

This process is repeated tens, hundreds of times until the final victory is achieved or until X-Com is defeated. New meat needs to be constantly thrown into meat grinder. There's fear, there's tension, there's savagery, there's triumph but it always ends the same way - with death. Burned by searing plasma, torn apart by alien grenades, implanted with alien egg, blasted into atoms with blaster bomb, shot in the back by a mind controlled comrade...
Death is the only certain thing.

#119 Gustarx

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Posted 20 July 2011 - 10:29 AM

I play X-com, as Iv played many, many years ago, like "Chess". I guess my thoughts about the subject is probably a bit out of the scope of this topic. Playing for 'fun' is one aspect. I play to learn, when I play and I guess, that counts for others as well, so, when 'We' play with more fun, challenge we can handle, we will learn more, we and others can use outside the Box, outside the 'system' of the 'Game', here this game. However Its beyond this game, Iv seen recently the movie 'Avatar' and if uv seen that movie, maybe u can imgaine, why 'our' 'own' learning-aspects can be used outside the game-serie 'X-Com'.

I use save/load a lot to make insightable, which (emotional logical) steps I do to proceed. Important 'own rules' are:

I.
'Damage to Living Species should be minimal':
-- 'one shot -> one kill for the Aliens'
-- 'No Collateral damage for humans'
-- 'as least as possible damage to the environment'
-- time is NOT the leading principal; NOT the logical emotional path to follow; NOT the restriction as it mostly is, does exist, OUTSIDE the system of this game.

It means only the best possible one laser-pistol-shot counts before I decide to proceed in the proceeding safespot in tactical mode. It means I can use in a 'tst'-scouting-turn the more devasting effects of other weapons; or in Geomode what the effects will be of decisions made for Research in Labs; Work in Workshops; Organise and Management of Personell & bases.


II.
'Stimulation & Improvement of (Ingame) Collaboration and Koöperation' (SICK) is for me real important. Including all the connotative semantics of the word Collaboration, in Dutch 'collaboration' has the more 'negative' connotation of being in league, or collade, with the enemy. Without the 'Enemy Unknown', that Alien Intriguing (fascinating) Intilligent life, somewhere living outside in 'The Terror of The Deep', but in the sphere of MY system, there would be no game. Without others there would be no game, no live, at all.

Ingame it means, Throwing is important to create teams. With throwing its possible to split and divide the available resources and skills over the whole team. It means also bringing in, researching, new weapons, will make the Game harder. Cuz of the 80-limit of items we have to deal with, it is harder to bring in, in the tactical mode, more or all the different kind of weapons. So I measure a lot and make lots of calculations of TU's; Weight and Energy, Stamina of Individuals to create the most possible best outcome for the Whole team. Time is here also not The critical decision maker. The most important decisionmaker is the proces of how I feel about the made and to make decisions and my reasons for such decisions. If it doesn't feel right or good enough, I go back to the best available safe-position I have had created before. When I think about it, its high-possible I never 'end' this game. When Cydonia is in sight I start over in a more difficult game-lvl. Its now beginners, end 3 month.


III.
'Improvements in the process of Descriptions of the Safespots'. How to describe and organise the safespots ingame, as if it were a kind of external Archive table of content what is going on ingame itself. Maybe the picture will make this more insightable:

Posted Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Note:

Probably Temp: ???
Iv used ImageShack as well as the internal "UPLOAD". Cuz im not familair with both in this forum-environment, I make a check and upload my whole post.



Hmmm, it seems the upload is available to others. The abbreviations I use:
- Geo = Geoscape, strategical safespots, the best spots to return back to
- Geo1 = nostalgic safespot for each month
- Base = BaseManagment, inbetween the strategical (longterm) and tactical (shortterm) decisions
- Mis & M = Missions, the more tactical safespots
- U = Ufo
- K: 3;6;7;8;5;4 = refers to earlier created best possible safepoints/-spots
- 10>11; 17>18 = decision-points, or marks based upon incoming Ufo's, so with each new ufo, a new session will begin (Ufo36 was about 65 of such marks, U36 is proceeded, and we'r now heading up to the new month, while waiting for U37)
- cha = changes made by game or own input incoming Ufo is input as well as a change in arrival of a transfer, or workload-change
- n-cha = no known changes except of the time going on, ( I safe before I choose to do management or tactical decisions
- n-Rp = no incoming Rapports, with rapports I mean the 'Graphs' for Ufo-activity. I make after each Ufo-mission a new graph see also the 2nd "UPLOAD", forum-available (I used also to make such own graphs for crew and comparisements for the stores of all the bases
- trns arr = transfer arrived
- wrk = changes specific to the workload of engineers
- stores = check, compares and changes the storage of each base
- ship = check and change equipment of ships



Hmmmmm2, 2nd Edit:

I hope the abbrevations Iv used in the 'Graphs'-attachement r clear. I had 2 very large Ufo's at radarsight in March. But it was for me impossible to bring those ufo's down. I take terrorships down with 2 interceptors loaded as follows: 1 interceptor with Avalanche-, Cannon- weaponrycombi, the other interceptor with Stingray- Cannon- weaponrycombi. But as said, I couldn't bring down the Very Large Ufo's, in att-range, with different sets of weaponry, after about 100 attempts (hahahaha), I decided to proceed. I couldn't sleep about that decision for 1 day, grumble, grumble, then I had 'peace' with it; - ) .

Edited by Gustarx, 20 July 2011 - 11:22 AM.


#120 Istrebitel

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 04:53 AM

Latter fits me mostly.

Since some time, i understood that the biggest pleasure from playing tactical squad games comes from learning the game and then playing on hardest reasonable difficulty without any save/load action to save your beloved troops/whatever, since that is true risk and reward, and it makes you feel the game balance more seriously, take precautions you would take IRL etc. And also obviously avoid using exploits.

However, in X-Com A, i do save/load in select cases, like:

1) Bugs:
a) Agent failing to gain vision on incoming popper he clearly had to see (like, popper went 5 tiles without being "spotted" somehow in front of my agent) which leads to injuries, or something similar with brainsuckers
B) Autopause on enemy spotted didnt work which lead to injuries like said popper comes out and autopause wont pause so he explodes
c) Medkits not working (had an agent die while using medkit, he bled out 1/3 of his life, he wasnt flying he had + icon on him and he had only one wound and it was highlited green)
d) Something i probably didnt mention that feels totally wrong and totally screws the game for me which i hard to avoid or in order to avoid which you have to do some tedious boring work that doesnt fit into game universe

2) Stupid failures of game AI:
a) Agents refusing to fire on targets i ordered them to fire upon (like i right click anthropod, then popper pops up, i pause, right click popper with all 6, unpause, popper has "arrows" on him but they continue firing on anthropod for next 4-6 shots and popper successfully comes in for a pop.
B) Agents told to watch the back of the squad turning to the threat that other agent saw and subsequently killing said agent with a shot in the back (apparently game has NO way to make agent look SAID way and not turn his stupid head around)
c) Agents refusing to fire on location with shift+click when an alien is attacking me from outside of my view
d) Agent refusing to make a move when told to or taking insane route, which prevents a crucial dodge of some explosive
e) Aircraft dying because of AI stupidity (like i'm telling a hawk to disengage and go to base but it continues fighting, dodges in the direction of the attacker, which in the end makes it die instead of escaping)

3) Absolutely terribly unlucky spawns, for example i once spawned in a "appartments" level with a room full of anthropods just behind my back. Only three agents were there and obviously they immediately got squashed by devastator fire.

4) Matter of total convinience, for example a multiworm inside of a lair of eggs and crysalises, since agents just terribly ignore orders to fire at the DAMN WORM and snakes it spawns, i often just reload if i suffer casualties at THAT. I mean its nothing like the last alien inside engine room you had to somehow take down, its not a risk, its just a total AI stupidity that makes it impossible to execute a strategy

#121 Gustarx

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 10:12 AM

I save, load, often cuz the members in my team (of soldiers) are not trained well in teamwork. They want to be the 'True Hero' so does it feel sometimes. But as their 'trainer', coach, Iv to say so many times: "Let the ball (the tool, ROFL ) do the job." So, when Im inside the Skyranger and want to throw the electro-flare, which Iv given with purpose to the last 2 men, to the first in line, who can step out, they miss frequently in the start.

My team has to learn, to which player, which item they have to throw.

So working from the back to the frontlinie it takes several steps. In the meantime, while calculating, discussing and arguïng with my team and myself, which next step is best, sometimes the whole team wants to start right over. With a deep sigh of relieve or unbelieve in some cases that happens too, ; - ), I agree. "..... lets take a new 'pole'-position. If u throw this 'ball' first, then that item, maybe u need less energy for the sprint which is required to get the touchdown', the stunned, surprised opponent. Remember if they never realised what it was what hit them, then we have played one of our best games." With other words, playing X-Com makes me learn how to play teamplay, like soccer, American football, rugby, whatever sport u need to throw with an item to others to make that game playable. For me no 'Hero's' on the tactical playboard.

I try to throw the items to the leading officers ingame first, if they dont have yet TA outtrained. Men who have maxed their throwing training are able to drop, saving energy and timeunits for when its more necessary, more appropriate. Before I decide to sent the Bus (the Skyranger) on the highroad (high in the sky) to the next match (mission) Iv selected some 'choosen ones', the lucky beasts, who may do the final touchdown. Most of the times are that the men who need the most a morale or physical boost. They have the choice of all kind of weapons throwed to them, laying beneath, under their feet. "Wow u are really stunning, with that sliding action." :- )

Beside my yells, commands, advices, tips yelled and begged to MY men in the field, while we trying to survive on that 'battle'-field, there is always afterwards The Internal Briefing. I speak to all men and when they think they know better, well, maybe then its time for the highest officer in rank to take some rest, I can sent him or her on holiday, to another base (Alaska) to check the inventory, ..., giving him, her, the well-deserved medailles, a 'golden watch' or so. The best men or women could maybe start their own team? The rest of the team gets another position. No need to let my men take injuries at all. Its more a kind of MY laziness and stupidity to think well and take care for them if they get injured.



In the meantime Iv to learn my team, myself, also to have more respect, appreciation for the opponent. There is enough Space for more thoughts, other species. Why do I have to go to Cydonia, why do others want to terrorise others?

With playing games, even wargames, its possible to learn how to stand for yourself, or, our ourselves, our race. so we can learn outside that 'game'-environment to be more respectful to others and global environment. We have to play some more games I guess, before we get that insight. When soldiers aren't sent anylonger to any battlefield across the world, or universe, while hearing the theme of their favorite game killing 'Unknown Enemy's'.





With Save/Load its possible to learn to think to get the best result of each tactical, strategical decision at that moment. Its possible for me to replay a lot of times the whole game and each time I could know, learn a bit more how to play well, improve more from the previous played games. Its also possible to play from the start of each game with in mind the thought, "I want the best out of the moment itself." Iv played in tst-modus to defend my first not yet well setted up base against Floaters in 2nd month or so, 2-3 turns, as Ironmen' no oponnent, ...... I could proceed with that tactical mission. But I dont like that kind of gameplay. It was, is, more challenging for me to avoid that basedefence in the first place. So I went back to a previous safespot and 'yeah' it was possible to ground the alienship that led to the attack on my 1st base, by studying more carefully the incoming rapports, the graphs, a better timing of sending in the available ships, etc. . I choose, prefer to choose, for the latter. If possible I want to manage at 8 bases 150 scientists (1 base), 250 soldiers, where Iv the choice to continue training new men, while giving the highest in rank retirement and a numbers of engineers I dont know yet. And maybe I nver come so far, so be it. But only decisions ingame where I feel complete sure about, comfortable with. "K, it isn't possible to ground a Very Large Ufo, in the 3thd month", was for me such decision, .... "




And in the meantime, while at a footpace shambling, shuffling and throwing, saving and loading I improve, proceed, step by step. The game can be played in a lot of ways, happily so, : -) .


Its nice to read how others play the game. Or to watch, cuz recently in an other subforum I read and watched the X-Com movie, where forummembers here could sign in and were played by a fellow forummember, with their own imaginaire created backgrounds, :) .

Edited by Gustarx, 22 July 2011 - 10:19 AM.


#122 Sorrow

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 04:21 PM

Latter fits me mostly.

Since some time, i understood that the biggest pleasure from playing tactical squad games comes from learning the game and then playing on hardest reasonable difficulty without any save/load action to save your beloved troops/whatever, since that is true risk and reward, and it makes you feel the game balance more seriously, take precautions you would take IRL etc. And also obviously avoid using exploits.

However, in X-Com A, i do save/load in select cases, like:

1) Bugs:
a) Agent failing to gain vision on incoming popper he clearly had to see (like, popper went 5 tiles without being "spotted" somehow in front of my agent) which leads to injuries, or something similar with brainsuckers
B) Autopause on enemy spotted didnt work which lead to injuries like said popper comes out and autopause wont pause so he explodes
c) Medkits not working (had an agent die while using medkit, he bled out 1/3 of his life, he wasnt flying he had + icon on him and he had only one wound and it was highlited green)
d) Something i probably didnt mention that feels totally wrong and totally screws the game for me which i hard to avoid or in order to avoid which you have to do some tedious boring work that doesnt fit into game universe

2) Stupid failures of game AI:
a) Agents refusing to fire on targets i ordered them to fire upon (like i right click anthropod, then popper pops up, i pause, right click popper with all 6, unpause, popper has "arrows" on him but they continue firing on anthropod for next 4-6 shots and popper successfully comes in for a pop.
B) Agents told to watch the back of the squad turning to the threat that other agent saw and subsequently killing said agent with a shot in the back (apparently game has NO way to make agent look SAID way and not turn his stupid head around)
c) Agents refusing to fire on location with shift+click when an alien is attacking me from outside of my view
d) Agent refusing to make a move when told to or taking insane route, which prevents a crucial dodge of some explosive
e) Aircraft dying because of AI stupidity (like i'm telling a hawk to disengage and go to base but it continues fighting, dodges in the direction of the attacker, which in the end makes it die instead of escaping)

3) Absolutely terribly unlucky spawns, for example i once spawned in a "appartments" level with a room full of anthropods just behind my back. Only three agents were there and obviously they immediately got squashed by devastator fire.

4) Matter of total convinience, for example a multiworm inside of a lair of eggs and crysalises, since agents just terribly ignore orders to fire at the DAMN WORM and snakes it spawns, i often just reload if i suffer casualties at THAT. I mean its nothing like the last alien inside engine room you had to somehow take down, its not a risk, its just a total AI stupidity that makes it impossible to execute a strategy

Sounds more like a good reason to play X-Com 1/2 instead of X-Com 3 than for reloading in X-Com 3.

#123 NKF

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 05:46 PM

Once you've experienced the game enough, Apocalypse is generally a lot easier to play without using save/reload for the ground missions compared to the originals. Survivability is generally better what with some decent starting equipment, and later on with the shields.

If it's of any interest, there's a thread I'm running on Strategycore where 5 players, including myself, are playing a single game of UFO. We each take turns and do a mission, and then post the after action report for the others. It's a limited-weapon challenge with the weapons being dictated by which base the assault team is in.

It's not how I would play the game normally, but it's a good example of playing through the game without using save/reload. There are some good and some bad missions caused, but overall it's been quite an epic.

http://www.strategyc...ples-t8814.html


- NKF

Edited by NKF, 22 July 2011 - 05:55 PM.

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#124 Sorrow

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Posted 22 July 2011 - 05:58 PM

Once you've experienced the game enough, Apocalypse is generally a lot easier to play without using save/reload for the ground missions compared to the originals. Survivability is generally better what with some decent starting equipment, and later on with the shields.

You still have to deal with the horribad AI, though.

#125 NKF

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 12:49 AM

Which you'll face with or without reloading. ;) It's a bit like a squad based tactical version of the suicidal-tank-rush AI used in certain popular peon-pumping strategy games.

While they lack common sense or strategy, their main advantage is surprise and quantity. It's how you manage it really.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 23 July 2011 - 12:53 AM.

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#126 Sorrow

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Posted 23 July 2011 - 02:14 AM

Which you'll face with or without reloading. ;) It's a bit like a squad based tactical version of the suicidal-tank-rush AI used in certain popular peon-pumping strategy games.

While they lack common sense or strategy, their main advantage is surprise and quantity. It's how you manage it really.

Surprise is worthless when they are running around like headless chickens or keep walk-firing.

#127 Gustarx

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 04:58 AM

How u can use Save/Load in probably a slighthly different way then expected, Iv uploaded an example.

The start-thought is:

"X-Com is a very exclusive, (dubious/lousy/questionable *1) organistion. I want 'the best' soldiers ('the best' losers *1) for the job, so they have to apply for the job. Their letter of application is the stats overview. The jobinterview is when I read their letter of applications,, ; -). The selectionprocedure takes 72 hour. So my selection procedure begins with, when I buy the new recruits before the new men/women will start their actually 'training' on the missions, ... "


* 1
Discussable is, of course, what:
- are 'the best' soldiers?
- are 'the best' stats to start with for each individual new recruit?
- should they start training on their first missions?

Partial these questions are probably beyond the scope of this topic. My point is that strategical saving/loading games have their own influence on the whole game, including the tactical missions. To make it more challenging its possible to 'choose' for low stats for different skills then the favorite ones of the player. With a smile, in other words, do u hire immediately each new individu thats walking into your organisation, which claim he/she is 'the best' for your organisation? Any organisation, even the army, has their 'own' selection criteria that will differ from country to country and will improve, fine-tuned intime.


Saving/loading is a tool for, or in, X-Com that can be used to make the game more challenging, more personally atuned for individuals to play.









And in the meantime thoughts (the memes) about how to find 'the best' men for 'the best' job at 'the best' place on earth will slowly continously evoluate. A proces for individuals, what also occurs for our whole race.





_______

Edit:

- oh, when I was about to continue my game, I noticed that Iv used 'Soll2/3'. 'Soll' is the abbreviation for 'Sollicitate'. Im from the Netherlands and in Dutch means 'sollicitate' translated excat the same as 'apply'. Instead of 'soll2' u should read 'applicant2'. I do NOT want new recruits sollicitating under my supervision, ; -) . If they wish they may of course apply for other jobs, inside or outside X-com, ...

Edited by Gustarx, 29 July 2011 - 05:44 AM.


#128 Gustarx

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 06:36 AM

This is what I mean with how I use Save/Load. In the uploaded (almost same) file, Iv added a new prt-scr, based upon the decision to hire 3 more soldiers. I decide to buy 3 soldiers, to go from 30>33 soldiers. It means that after the next following (ingame tactical) mission, I will have one extra captain and a new sergeant. In the whole is maybe noticeable how I (try) to improve the extra tool Save/Load. The used abbreviatons, after several weeks, months of playing are continously under thought. The most recent thought was: "Im also able to abbreviate the first words of savepositions 5 (and 6) from 'Base5' to 'B5', which will give me more space to describe which kind of new 'Mission' ('Mis') Im about to start." 'Re-Distribut 7' refers to saveposition 7. Saveposition 7: 'Mis all B Redistribute' stands for with Sky2 (Skyranger2) hopping to all bases, which saves cash, then using using the ingame 'transfer'-option for each item apart.'

At saveposition 10 is still to see how far I came, before I started over, with the thought: "This can be done more carefull". At saveposition 10 I realised that I had bought to much 'grenades and other stuff' to fill the 'General Stores', in my previous attempt to redistribute the loot from the last tactical mission, in which case I couldn't built at end of day 7 April 1999 at 7 of the 8 bases, 7 more hangars. So I went back to the last 'best' saveposition which at the moment is, saveposition '3', sold 7 heavy plasma now at once and saved that new 'position' to 'saveposition 2'.

So before I really start the Re-distribute or any kind of other 'tactical mission', I think also about how to proceed and how to use the save/load-option for the mission, any kind of mission. With posting here, I 'step' out of any game-mission. I switch then to what can be described as a kind of 'forum-mission', ; -) .

Edited by Gustarx, 29 July 2011 - 06:48 AM.


#129 Dreamer

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 07:42 PM

I am ashame to say I load a lot. It is hard to not reload my hard trained men when I spend so much time in them. But having one or two tanks will help.

#130 keybounce

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 10:16 PM

Generally, I only reload when something goes wrong.

Problem? Well, what's "wrong"?

Here's my big thing: Time passage in geoscape. If I have the time control on "5 seconds", it takes too long to pass time. But if I put the time control on 5 minutes, then there will be plenty of times when UFO activity will show up in the graphs, but with no ability for me to notice it in time -- and even when I do notice it, it then takes me time to hit "5 seconds", and decide what to do -- so now it's hours later, the UFO incident has come and gone, and I'll reload.

What would be nice (People doing re-writes pay attention): Let me know when UFO activity is reported, so I can switch to 5 seconds, and launch something to look for the UFO. Let me have someone in the office monitoring the UFO activity reports so I can actually do something.

Oh: Don't put the time control on 30 minutes. Your ship's ability to spot UFO's goes away :-).

#131 Gustarx

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 02:53 PM

Generally, I only reload when something goes wrong.

Problem? Well, what's "wrong"?

Here's my big thing: Time passage in geoscape. If I have the time control on "5 seconds", it takes too long to pass time. But if I put the time control on 5 minutes, then there will be plenty of times when UFO activity will show up in the graphs, but with no ability for me to notice it in time -- and even when I do notice it, it then takes me time to hit "5 seconds", and decide what to do -- so now it's hours later, the UFO incident has come and gone, and I'll reload.

What would be nice (People doing re-writes pay attention): Let me know when UFO activity is reported, so I can switch to 5 seconds, and launch something to look for the UFO. Let me have someone in the office monitoring the UFO activity reports so I can actually do something.

Oh: Don't put the time control on 30 minutes. Your ship's ability to spot UFO's goes away :-).


When u want more Ufo's to localise, its possible to make intensive use of the graphs and the possibility to play with the external ingame-time/ or clock. After each generated new Ufo of the game, which my program, I mean my brains, or me, have been taken care of in tactical mode, I make a prt-scr of the graphs, like see uploaded file. I compare the ingame graphs with the made prt-scrn-graphs . Then I do some scouting-moves in geoscape mode, with the time set at a day, in this mode I know what I can expect for the next 3 - 4 days, I dont go further then the next month, cuz I like, prefer micromanagement play-style. With the scout-move in/ for 'days' I know approximately at what day I can expect Ufo-activity. The day, time before, about 18 - 24 hours roughly, I make a no-return-save-point. From that save/load-point I make several tests, including the proceeding move to take out, to ground the Ufo. As an example, till sofar, with 2 skyrangers and 2 interceptors in month April 1999 its possible for me to take out 3 ufo's within 18 hours. Skyrangers are located in mainbase1, Europe. Sky1 could get the large scout, ufo40, landed in Siberie somewhere, Sky2 could do the same job in North-Australia for Ufo42, also a large scout. When Sky2 was returned I selected the crew for terrorUfo41 at a terrormission in Europe, grounded with the inceptors 1 from base1, the other came from base2, located about 11 hours transfertime away. From the no-return-save-point I use frequently different time-units, hours first and finally 5 seconds. In the example above it was only possible to take to start the tactical mission for Ufo42, when the course was set to northeast, otherwise it would land somewhere even more south (New-Sealand) and Sky2 unable to get in range to the landingzone.


Ehm I dont have yet researched much of the Aliens and their artefacts, cuz I choose first to research all projects out of the 'unknown'-status, so no Hyperwave-Decoder or any other Alien-equipment sofar for me, .... Iv read a lot of others humans previous research-process/progress 'saved' in a large file, also called the site "UFOpadia.org!" and this forum. From time to time I 're-load' some 'external data' which my program thinks can use, I mean, what I 'think' I can use, to play my own game, ; -) .


Lot Of Thanks of course to those contributors of site and forum, ...

#132 Gustarx

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 06:14 AM

I read ingame "Save WORLD", rather then "LOAD Game", ...


...

Not much txt this time,

: -) .

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#133 xoham

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Posted 18 July 2013 - 12:49 PM

Apparently resurrecting this thread is ok.  I used to play with many saves.  This time I'm playing an ironman Superhuman game.  That means if I forget to buy supplies, to bad.  If my squad gets wiped on a mission, so sorry.  The first time I did this I survived 3 squad wipes but they finally destroyed my manufacturing base and I figured I would be bankrupt so I had to concede defeat.  Then my second game a sectoid dropped a grenade on my entire squad, killing seven of them and causing my rocket tank to berzerk (no, really).  Again I was bankrupt so had to concede.  My third try is going ok so far.  I will probably not build a manufacturing base remotely for a long time so that if they attack it, only radars are lost.  I am taking advantage of knowing that multiple radars are useless, so I have more space in my first base.