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#51 Mad

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 07:43 AM

I think the xenium with its space-bending properties might be the means of spreading the "stunning stuff". note that I do not speak of a toxin... whatever we finally use, it has to be able to stun not only humans and human-like aliens, but also insect-like aliens, reptile-like aliens and even silicon-based aliens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yap, I thik this sounds very persuasive. Imagine a short burst of unchanneled space-time would hit you... I would instantly black out. Just from hearing the word. :P
Seriously, this could be the key, but you will have to explain why you are not stunned if you fire a plasma or a blaster shot or ar in the vecinity of a Xenium reactor (wich would actually be a very nice explanation for the massive shielding and complex layout of the Xenium reactor Moriarty)
Oh, and if I remember correctly, it will have to be able to stun terrordiscs too, wouldn't it? Well, no problem with xenium, since there is a localized EM Pulse involved. naturally. ^_^
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#52 Zombie

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Posted 09 June 2006 - 10:59 PM

Oh, and if I remember correctly, it will have to be able to stun terrordiscs too, wouldn't it? Well, no problem with xenium, since there is a localized EM Pulse involved. naturally.  ^_^

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Naturally. :D

Right, everything in the game can be stunned except tanks and Zombies. Keep that in mind. ;)

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#53 Kikanaide

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 09:52 AM

Ok, so this is rough. I pretty well just started over. There are so many versions that I didn't have the strength to try to pull stuff from all of them...

The main idea I have with this is that it can knock out anything. I can't think of one magic effect (though some proposed have come close), so I made it a super bomb.

...//needs header here

The Stun Bomb, while visually unimpressive, is in fact a highly complex device.  Able to incapacitate members of wildly different species, as well as some seemingly robotic creatures, it is a highly effective part of the alien arsenal.  It has also been responsible for many nights of lost sleep among the biology and chemistry team.

The Bomb is a three-part device.  The outer layer is a protective shell, which does a very good job of rendering the projectile inert.  Inside this layer, the Bomb may be dropped, vibrated, or subjected to extreme heat, cold, or vacuum.  Even if the Bomb is destroyed by an explosion, it commonly does not release its contents as it would if it were fired. 

Inside the shell, however, is a second layer best described as a membrane.  If the shell is designed to be protective, the membrane is designed to tear.  In fact, we at R&D have yet to be able to study the interior section without first tearing the membrane and thus releasing the contents.  Upon the tearing of the membrane (which will happen with even the slightest of blunt impacts), the contents are released.  Luckily, the release leaves the membrane intact and most of the chemical contents can be found by chemical analysis.  Others have been inferred through observations and recordings.  The membrane itself has been successfully reproduced using, of all things, chicken eggs as a starting material.

Inside the membrane is a mixture simultaneously hellish and benign.  It appears that the Aliens, in an effort to ensure that a creature of any physiology can be stunned, have implemented every possible form of nonlethal payload.  Among gaseous agents alone, three different nerve gases have been isolated which are all engineered for both extreme effectiveness but total lack of longevity.  Four chemical agents have also been found.  When the contents release, they do so with an explosion caused by the Xenium, which also causes a significant electrical shock.  The contents appear to be under extreme pressure, and their rapid expansion can cause ambient temperature to drop by several degrees, while having more extreme localized effects.  Even when shielded from these all of effects, test subjects (or investigators) close to the explosion have experienced blackout from an unknown cause.

Although the last effect is not fully understood, we have replicated the Stun Bomb in its entirety and found the the effect remains.

One investigator suggested that X-Corps could re-engineer Stun Bombs and remove their effectiveness against humans, allowing X-Corps an incredible advantage.  Unfortunately, of all of the effects thus far isolated, humans are susceptible to every single one.  By some quirk, Terran vehicles such as XCAPS seem to be totally immune although some Alien robots are susceptible to the electric discharge.  Perhaps Terran circuitry is not advanced enough to be vulnerable...

"Stun Bomb?  This this should be called the Super Bomb.  With all this stuff in it, it's a wonder that the damn thing doesn't kill us."


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#54 Moriarty

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Posted 12 June 2006 - 12:52 AM

very nice.


[...]as well as some seemingly robotic creatures[...]

hmmm... the stun bomb will probably appear early in the game, but robotic aliens later... I don't really know how to resolve this. we need to say something about stun bombs being able to stun those robotic aliens, but at the same time the player does not necessarily know they exist at the point the stun bomb is researched. duh.

Inside the shell, however, is a second layer best described as a membrane.  If the shell is designed to be protective, the membrane is designed to tear. In fact, we at R&D have yet to be able to study the interior section without first tearing the membrane and thus releasing the contents.  Upon the tearing of the membrane (which will happen with even the slightest of blunt impacts) [...]

if the membrane tears that easily, why doesn't it tear when you drop the stun bomb?



When the contents release, they do so with an explosion caused by the Xenium, which also causes a significant electrical shock.  The contents appear to be under extreme pressure, and their rapid expansion can cause ambient temperature to drop by several degrees, while having more extreme localized effects.


best not mention xenium in this way, the player might not know about it yet. or at least say "caused by the alien substance we know as xenium" or something like that.

btw, if there is an explosion, why does it not do damage? my idea was that the xenium does not explode, but is used to "teleport" the other contents you mentioned (nerve gas etc.) over the area of effect. something like
"When the bomb is activated, an intriguing effect most probably caused by the alien substance we know as xenium instantly spreads the contents of the bomb over the surrounding area. Precise measurings have shown that this spreading happens without measurable delay between any two points within the area of effect. While massive objects appear to be able to somewhat block the spreading, traces of the bombs contents have been found inside a radioactive containment box that happened to be inside the area-of-effect."
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#55 Mad

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Posted 12 June 2006 - 01:52 AM

[...]as well as some seemingly robotic creatures[...]

hmmm... the stun bomb will probably appear early in the game, but robotic aliens later... I don't really know how to resolve this. we need to say something about stun bombs being able to stun those robotic aliens, but at the same time the player does not necessarily know they exist at the point the stun bomb is researched. duh.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interestingly the stun bomb seemed to have negative effects on some advanced circuitry in our laboratorys, though in further experiments on in-field technology no earth technology including the XCAPs was influenced. We suspect an induced extensive electron tunneling effect in microprocessors with extremely small structure sizes, but can't verify this thesis as of now.?

Edit: small rephrasing
Edit2: Uhm... If we can't verify it it should be called Hypothesis, shouldn't it? Is there an even weaker expression (weaker as in Hypothesis < Thesis < Theory)?

Edited by Mad, 12 June 2006 - 03:05 AM.

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#56 Moriarty

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Posted 12 June 2006 - 06:47 AM

sooo... some science guy sat in a corner playing Quake III, and when the Stun Bomb went off, the game froze for a few seconds? why not... it could "stun" microprocessors, somehow stopping them for a few seconds without turning them off - somehow the charges are preserved so no information is lost. kind of hard to explain, but hey, we have Xenium™, explanation for everything!
"The special construction of the Stun Bomb creates a space-time flux which induces weird magnetism in electronic circuitry, causing the electrons to chase their own tails for a few seconds before continuing to travel as before." :)
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#57 Kikanaide

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Posted 12 June 2006 - 07:10 AM

hmmm... the stun bomb will probably appear early in the game, but robotic aliens later... I don't really know how to resolve this. we need to say something about stun bombs being able to stun those robotic aliens, but at the same time the player does not necessarily know they exist at the point the stun bomb is researched. duh.

That's a good point. Between your later comments and Mad's I think I'll work something out. I may avoid it affecting Earth-based microprocessors, though. With all of the crazy crud we say goes on in the XCAPS, the things gotta have at least a few 64x2 athlon chips. So that'll take care of the tank, though I think I'm just not going to explain the zombie. That's the zombie text's job. Something about not having a true nervous system, I imagine.

if the membrane tears that easily, why doesn't it tear when you drop the stun bomb?

The idea I'm trying to explain is that it would tear that easily, unless the casing is present. With the casing, however, it's like...I don't know...putting plastic on glass.

best not mention xenium in this way, the player might not know about it yet. or at least say "caused by the alien substance we know as xenium" or something like that.

You're right, though this is one of those things that angers me... So much (maybe all?) of the alien technology uses the stuff, but we can research damn near all of it without researching Xenium...grr... I'll work out somethihg that makes it less positive, but still makes sense if they have already researched Xenium.

btw, if there is an explosion, why does it not do damage? my idea was that the xenium does not explode, but is used to "teleport" the other contents you mentioned (nerve gas etc.) over the area of effect. something like
"When the bomb is activated, an intriguing effect most probably caused by the alien substance we know as xenium instantly spreads the contents of the bomb over the surrounding area. Precise measurings have shown that this spreading happens without measurable delay between any two points within the area of effect. While massive objects appear to be able to somewhat block the spreading, traces of the bombs contents have been found inside a radioactive containment box that happened to be inside the area-of-effect."

That's an interesting idea. I was originally thinking that it's kind of like a firecracker under water - you know, mainly it just throws stuff around but you can't even see flames so it's doubtful that anyone would get hurt. I'm up for this other explanation, but it seems like it would be nice to avoid new Xenium properties (although...maybe I already added one with this explosion...hrm...)

Thanks for the comments, man. I'll work on another draft. Not sure how long it will take...

Edit: Mad, thank you for your comment, also.

Edited by Kikanaide, 12 June 2006 - 07:27 AM.

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#58 Moriarty

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Posted 12 June 2006 - 11:08 AM

well, a firecracker under water _will_ do some damage to a fish swimming near it... that's why I want to avoid the whole explosion thing. since xenium does do some space-bending, we might as well use it for this :)
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#59 Kikanaide

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Posted 21 June 2006 - 07:38 PM

edit: Fine point, Moriarity...I changed from truly instantaneous to effectively...I know everyone wants FTL but I'm hesitant. Otherwise edited some stuff for readability. Let me know what you think.

...//needs header here

The Stun Bomb, while visually unimpressive, is in fact a highly complex device.  Able to incapacitate members of wildly different species, and possibly even adversely affect advanced circuitry, it is a highly effective part of the alien arsenal.  It has also been responsible for many nights of lost sleep among the biology and chemistry team, along with many minutes of unintentional slumber.

The Bomb is a three-part device.  The outer layer is a protective shell, which effectively renders the projectile inert.  While protected by this layer, the Bomb may be dropped, vibrated, or subjected to extreme heat, cold, or vacuum.  Even if the Bomb is destroyed by an explosion, it commonly does not release its contents as it would if it were fired. 

Inside the shell, however, is a second layer best described as a membrane.  If the shell is designed to be protective, the membrane is designed to tear.  In fact, we at R&D have yet to be able to study the interior section without first tearing the membrane and thus releasing the contents.  Upon the tearing of the membrane (which will happen with even the slightest of blunt impacts), the contents are released.  Luckily, the release leaves most of the membrane intact and many chemical contents can be found by chemical analysis after the fact.  Others have been inferred through observations and recordings.  The membrane itself has been successfully reproduced using, of all things, chicken eggs as a starting material.

Inside the membrane is a mixture simultaneously hellish and benign.  It appears that the Aliens, in an effort to ensure that a creature of any physiology can be stunned, have implemented every possible form of nonlethal payload.  Among gaseous agents alone, three different nerve gases have been isolated which are all engineered for both extreme effectiveness and total lack of longevity.  Four chemical agents have also been found, at least one of which is suspected to be biological in origin.  The release of the contents is also accompanied by a high-voltage, low-current electrical shock that, while painful, can cause temporary paralysis but no permanent damage to humans.  The contents appear to be under extreme pressure, and their rapid expansion can cause ambient temperature to drop by several degrees, while having more extreme localized effects.  Even when heavily shielded from the above mechanisms, test subjects (and investigators) close to the explosion have experienced blackout from an unknown cause.

When the bomb is activated, an intriguing effect most probably caused by the alien substance we know as Xenium spreads the contents of the bomb over the surrounding area. Measurements have shown that this spreading occurs at or above the speed of light. While massive objects appear to obstruct the spreading, traces amounts of the chemicals in the Stun Bomb have been shown to penetrate even lead containers.

Although two effects are not fully understood, we have replicated the Stun Bomb in its entirety and found that all effects remain.

One investigator suggested that X-Corps could re-engineer Stun Bombs and remove their effectiveness against humans, allowing X-Corps an incredible advantage.  Unfortunately, of all of the effects thus far isolated, humans are susceptible to every single one.  By some quirk, Terran vehicles such as XCAPS seem to be totally immune although some Alien-based circuitry may be susceptible to the electric discharge.  Perhaps Terran circuitry is not advanced enough to be vulnerable...

"Stun Bomb?  This this should be called the Super Bomb.  With all this stuff in it, it's a wonder that the damn thing doesn't kill us."


Edited by Kikanaide, 21 June 2006 - 07:40 PM.

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#60 Mad

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 02:46 AM

very good =b

STUN BOMB
X-Net://Pegasus.Net/Weapons/Alien Weapons/Stun Bomb

The Stun Bomb, while visually unimpressive, is in fact a highly complex device.  Able to incapacitate members of wildly different species, and possibly even adversely affect advanced circuitry, it is a highly effective part of the alien arsenal.  It has also (also has been?) been responsible for many nights of lost sleep among the biology and chemistry team, along with many minutes of unintentional slumber.

The Bomb is a three-part device.  The outer layer is a protective shell, which effectively renders the projectile inert.  While protected by this layer, the Bomb may be dropped, vibrated, or subjected to extreme heat, cold, or vacuum.  Even if the Bomb is destroyed by an explosion, it commonly does not release its contents as it would if it were fired. 

Inside the shell, however, is a second layer best described as a membrane.  If the shell is designed to be protective, the membrane is designed to tear.  In fact, we at R&D have yet to be able to study the interior section without first tearing the membrane and thus releasing the contents.  Upon the tearing of the membrane (which will happen with even the slightest of blunt impacts), the contents are released.  Luckily, the release leaves most of the membrane intact and many chemical contents can be found by chemical analysis after the fact.  Others have been inferred through observations and recordings.  The membrane itself has been successfully reproduced using, of all things, chicken eggs as a starting material.
although this is a nice touch, I think you should explain why chicken eggs or leave it out.

Inside the membrane is a mixture simultaneously hellish and benign.  It appears that the Aliens, in an effort to ensure that a creature of any physiology can be stunned, have implemented every possible form of nonlethal payload.  Among gaseous agents alone, three different nerve gases have been isolated which are all all are? engineered for both extreme effectiveness and total lack of longevity.  Four chemical agents have also been found also four chemical agents have been found?, at least one of which is suspected to be biological in origin.  The release of the contents is also accompanied by a high-voltage, low-current electrical shock that, while painful, can cause temporary paralysis but no permanent damage to humans.  The contents appear to be under extreme pressure, and their rapid expansion can cause ambient temperature to drop by several degrees, while having more extreme localized effects.  Even when heavily shielded from the above mechanisms, test subjects (and investigators) close to the explosion have experienced blackout from an unknown cause.

When the bomb is activated, an intriguing effect most probably caused by the alien substance we know as Xenium spreads the contents of the bomb over the surrounding area. Measurements have shown that this spreading occurs at or above the speed of light. While massive objects appear to obstruct the spreading, traces amounts of the chemicals in the Stun Bomb have been shown to penetrate even lead containers.

This could make a problem with the launcher ct where you write that only a thin membrane is left after the bomb is loaded into the launcher. where is the xenium stored?


Although two effects are not fully understood, we have replicated the Stun Bomb in its entirety and found that all effects remain.

One investigator suggested that X-Corps could re-engineer Stun Bombs and remove their effectiveness against humans, allowing X-Corps an incredible advantage.  Unfortunately, of all of the effects thus far isolated, humans are susceptible to every single one.  By some quirk, Terran vehicles such as XCAPS seem to be totally immune although some Alien-based circuitry may be susceptible to the electric discharge.  Perhaps Terran circuitry is not advanced enough to be vulnerable...

"Stun Bomb?  This this should be called the Super Bomb.  With all this stuff in it, it's a wonder that the damn thing doesn't kill us."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Keep smiling while dying

Of course I have gone mad with power! It would be completely ridiculous to go mad without power!
And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#61 Mad

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 09:10 AM

Ruivo has some comments regarding the stun bomb

The Stun Bomb, while visually unimpressive, is in fact a highly complex device. Able to incapacitate members of wildly different species, and possibly even adversely affect advanced circuitry, it is a highly effective part of the alien arsenal. It also has been responsible for many nights of lost sleep among the biology and chemistry team, along with many minutes of unintentional slumber.

The Bomb is a three-part device. The outer layer is a protective shell, which effectively renders the projectile inert. While protected by this layer, the Bomb may be dropped, vibrated, or subjected to extreme heat, cold, or vacuum. Even if the Bomb is destroyed by an explosion, it commonly does not release its contents as it would if it were fired.

Inside the shell, however, is a second layer best described as a membrane. If the shell is designed to be protective, the membrane is designed to tear. In fact, we at R&D have yet to be able to study the interior section without first tearing the membrane and thus releasing the contents[remove this maybe?]. Upon the tearing of the membrane (which will happen with even the slightest of blunt impacts), the contents are released. Luckily, the release leaves most of the membrane intact and many chemical contents can be found by chemical analysis after the fact. Others have been inferred through observations and recordings.

Close study of the membrane though, made clear that our initial conclusions of it's fragile nature and it's real functions were wrong. Relatively speaking, the membrane is surprisingly strong while kept away from carbon dioxide, which present in the surroudings of any living beeing, as well as any powererd vehicle, or cybernetic organism. At the same time, carbon dioxide is non-existant inside the shell. These facts proved that the membrane has two functions: While isolated from carbon-dioxide, it's strong and dense keratin-based surface provide efficient defense against bacterial invasion, as well as preventing the leaking of it's contents. At the same time it is clearly and cleverly designed to tear apart when the device is fired at it's target.

The membrane itself has been successfully reproduced using, of all things, chicken eggs as a starting material, since they also have an internal membrane partly composed of keratin.

Inside the membrane is a mixture simultaneously hellish and benign. It appears that the Aliens, in an effort to ensure that a creature of any physiology can be stunned, have implemented every possible form of nonlethal payload. Among gaseous agents alone, three different nerve gases have been isolated which all are engineered for both extreme effectiveness and total lack of longevity. Four chemical agents have been found , at least one of which is suspected to be biological in origin. The release of the contents is also accompanied by a high-voltage, low-current electrical shock that, while painful, can cause temporary paralysis but no permanent damage to humans. The contents appear to be under extreme pressure, and their rapid expansion can cause ambient temperature to drop by several degrees, while having more extreme localized effects. Even when heavily shielded from the above mechanisms, test subjects (and investigators) close to the explosion have experienced blackout from an unknown cause.

When the bomb is activated, an intriguing effect most probably caused by a small amount of ionized atoms of the alien substance we know as Xenium ,located within the protective membrane, spreads the contents of the bomb over the surrounding area. Measurements have shown that this spreading occurs at or above the speed of light. While massive objects appear to obstruct the spreading, traces amounts of the chemicals in the Stun Bomb have been shown to penetrate even lead containers.

Although two effects are not fully understood, we have replicated the Stun Bomb in its entirety and found that all effects remain.
One investigator suggested that X-Corps could re-engineer Stun Bombs and remove their effectiveness against humans, allowing X-Corps an incredible advantage. Unfortunately, of all of the effects thus far isolated, humans are susceptible to every single one. By some quirk, Terran vehicles such as XCAPS seem to be totally immune although some Alien-based circuitry may be susceptible to the electric discharge. Perhaps Terran circuitry is not advanced enough to be vulnerable...

"Stun Bomb? This this should be called the Super Bomb. With all this stuff in it, it's a wonder that the damn thing doesn't kill us."


Keep smiling while dying

Of course I have gone mad with power! It would be completely ridiculous to go mad without power!
And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#62 Kikanaide

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Posted 24 October 2007 - 05:20 PM

I'm excited to have comments! Man...I was really feeling like this thing was done but somehow unsatisfactory...no one was posting on it.

In fact, we at R&D have yet to be able to study the interior section without first tearing the membrane and thus releasing the contents[remove this maybe?].

Can drop or re-word. I meant that to say "we can't 'calmly' release the contents - any attempt to gain access to the center has the same effect as firing the weapon." Looking at it now, it's obvious that somehow got lost in the translation from my brain to paper. I'll either say it right, or drop it.

Close study of the membrane though, made clear that our initial conclusions of it's fragile nature and it's real functions were wrong. Relatively speaking, the membrane is surprisingly strong while kept away from carbon dioxide, which present in the surroudings of any living beeing, as well as any powererd vehicle, or cybernetic organism. At the same time, carbon dioxide is non-existant inside the shell. These facts proved that the membrane has two functions: While isolated from carbon-dioxide, it's strong and dense keratin-based surface provide efficient defense against bacterial invasion, as well as preventing the leaking of it's contents. At the same time it is clearly and cleverly designed to tear apart when the device is fired at it's target.

Well, this is an interesting idea. I guess the main problem I have with this is it implies a level of targeting that isn't there... either atmospheric CO2 is sufficient, in which case the proximity to creatures is unimportant (which rings true to gameplay), or we have trouble... I'll think about it for a bit and get back to it.

Meanwhile, what, in the stun bomb, is there that would be bothered by bacterial invasion? Quick tone note - that could be taken as a defensive "well what do you know" or an honest question. It's that second one. I'm interested, I just don't know. Do you have ideas?

Lastly, I don't honestly know what keratin is. A quick wikipedia search reveals it to be a somewhat hard substance that seems a little tough for our poor membrane, unless keratin itself has this carbon-dioxide sensitivity mentioned earlier. Can you tell me why you chose it (and, while you're at it, check on if keratin is in fact in egg membranes and find me a source I could verify it with)?

Oh, final note from the proofreader in me - unlike almost all other apostrophe-s combinations, "it's" is a contraction meaning "it is" or "it has." The possessive form is "its."

The membrane itself has been successfully reproduced using, of all things, chicken eggs as a starting material, since they also have an internal membrane partly composed of keratin.

Again with me not knowing what keratin is, or if it is in fact included in egg shells. This was partly just a joke, if you couldn't tell from the tone, but for anyone who has peeled a hard-boiled egg it speaks to how (usually) tear-able that stupid membrane is... it's amazing when it works right, though.

When the bomb is activated, an intriguing effect most probably caused by a small amount of ionized atoms of the alien substance we know as Xenium ,located within the protective membrane, spreads the contents of the bomb over the surrounding area.

Last I knew - this is back 1-2 years ago, so update me if I'm wrong - we weren't calling Xenium an element. If this has changed PLEASE tell me, because I don't like Xenium being a "fold in spacetime," mostly just because I don't actually know what that is. A large atomic number, metastable element I can handle. Folds in spacetime I have a hard time writing with. That trouble aside, I assume if it's still a fold in spacetime it can't have an ion or atoms. With regards to the second comment, I can easily put the Xenium in the membrane itself, or in the inside of the bomb, whichever ya'll prefer.

Edit: I just noticed that I included the word "explosion" even after all the discussion about not using that word. This is mainly a reminder to myself to make sure that word doesn't stay in.

Edited by Kikanaide, 24 October 2007 - 05:23 PM.

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#63 kafros

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 03:12 AM

Just a quick note:

Lastly, I don't honestly know what keratin is. A quick wikipedia search reveals it to be a somewhat hard substance that seems a little tough for our poor membrane, unless keratin itself has this carbon-dioxide sensitivity mentioned earlier. Can you tell me why you chose it (and, while you're at it, check on if keratin is in fact in egg membranes and find me a source I could verify it with)?


1)
http://www.explorato...omposition.html :

INNER AND OUTER MEMBRANES: Lying between the eggshell and egg white, these two transparent protein membranes provide efficient defense against bacterial invasion. If you give these layers a tug, you'll find they're surprisingly strong. They 're made partly of keratin, a protein that's also in human hair.

2)
http://www.wisegeek....-is-keratin.htm

[/size][/font]Keratin is an extremely strong protein which is a major component in skin, hair, nails, hooves, horns, and teeth. The amino acids which combine to form keratin have several unique properties, and depending on the levels of the various amino acids, keratin can be inflexible and hard, like hooves, or soft, as is the case with skin [...] Keratin is difficult to dissolve, because it contains cysteine disulfide, which means that it is able to form disulfide bridges.

3)
And something that may show that you can indeed use a keratin-shell in order to store biological and chemical agents:
http://www.freepaten...om/4069106.html

Insolubilized but active enzymes are prepared by mixing an aqueous solution of the enzyme with reduced keratin-containing material. The invention is particularly useful for insolubilizing sulfhydryl-containing enzymes such as urease.

Edit: I couldn't find anything on the relation between keratin and CO2, but I guess there isn't a special one anyway ;)

Edited by kafros, 25 October 2007 - 03:17 AM.


#64 Mad

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 07:59 AM

Xenium is still a fold in space-time, and I honestly can't imagine why Keratin would suffer from CO2. In fact, since it is - as postesd before by kafros - an essential element of the hair and the nails, you can judge from your own experience.
However, there could be a possibility of a chemical reaction (maybe an enzyme speedign it up?) with an added fluid on the membrane that eats up the membrane at contact with CO2. But would that be fast enough?
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#65 Zombie

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Posted 25 October 2007 - 08:20 AM

However, there could be a possibility of a chemical reaction (maybe an enzyme speedign it up?) with an added fluid on the membrane that eats up the membrane at contact with CO2. But would that be fast enough?

I guess it depends on the thickness of the membrane. If the enzyme is organic, the rate of the reaction probably will not be as fast as an inorganic catalyst. Call it a time-delayed fuse for the enzyme variety. Perhaps the enzyme would just weaken the keratin coating enough so when it connects with an object after being launched the keratin shell breaks apart and atomizes the contents. =b

- Zombie

Edited by Zombie, 25 October 2007 - 08:25 AM.

The Mr. Grognard of X-COM

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#66 Kikanaide

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 11:14 AM

Ok, so my email notification is broken. Aaanyway, I got this here PM from ruvio who requested I post it up here.

I've had the keratin idea when googling about chicken egg membrane, so i could add anything usefull to explain the chicken egg you talked about, as mad pointed out :P I think it was something like "Anatomy of a chicken egg" or something like that, hehe.

From what i have read, keratin doens not have any kind of reaction to carbon dioxide, or any other gas.. Actually.. it remains unchanged be it inside, or outside the egg. What i had in mind to explain the fragility of the membrane when outside the protective shell, is the presence of one thing (anything) in the composition of the membrane, that IS fragile to CO2, so it would have both functions of protecting the bomb contents while inside the shell, and releasing them when outside.

I thought about including keratin to explain why chicken eggs would be usefull in recreating it, and also add some kind of protection against bacteria (even though that may be irrelevant.. any kind of defense against bacteria is good :D )

I haven't thought about anything like that.. but anything that doesn't responds well to CO2 should do the job.. i'll do some researching later tonight smile.gif

I didn't knew xenium was now something other than a unknown element, but i belive that it's easy to add it in nonetheless. :D


Also, there are some spelling errors i didn't had time to correct when pm'ing the additions to mad... I've pressed "Send Message" instead of "Preview Message":

as well as any powererd vehicle" and "which is present in the surroudings of any living beeing"


But those don't matter.. atmospheric CO2 should do the job. I just thought of some way to explain how it would work in the vacuum of space (as even there people inside space suits, and vehicles consuming fuel produce CO2) Just trying to cover all possible scenarios :P


(From me) Meanwhile, keep the comments coming, folks. I'm not currently able to type in-depth responses - working on an application for a national fellowship and I feel that, if I can write coherently, I should write on that application. Once I'm done with it I'll be back to just engineering work in my classes and more able to respond. Rest assured, though, your responses are read and appreciated.

Kikanaide out
Kikanaide - "What does it mean? Don't ask."

#67 Mad

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 01:40 AM

Kik, do you still want to work on this?
Keep smiling while dying

Of course I have gone mad with power! It would be completely ridiculous to go mad without power!
And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#68 Mad

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Posted 20 May 2008 - 06:46 AM

Ok, since Kikanaide PMed me that he would not have the time to complete this CT, I will.
I am waiting for your comments guys!

STUN BOMB
X-Net://Pegasus.Net/Weapons/Alien Weapons/Stun Bomb

The Stun Bomb, while visually unimpressive, is in fact a highly complex device. Able to incapacitate members of wildly different species, and possibly even adversely affect advanced circuitry, it is a highly effective part of the alien arsenal.

"It also has been responsible for many nights of lost sleep among the biology and chemistry team, along with many minutes of unintentional slumber." - personal comment Dr. Hans Wagner, group coordinator on the Stun Bomb project

The Bomb is a three-part device. The outer layer is a protective shell, which effectively renders the projectile inert. While protected by this layer, the Bomb may be dropped, vibrated, or subjected to extreme heat, cold, or vacuum. Even if the Bomb is destroyed by an explosion, it commonly does not release its contents as it would if it were fired.

Inside the shell, however, is a second layer best described as a membrane. If the shell is designed to be protective, the membrane is designed to tear. Upon rupturing of the membrane, the contents are released. Luckily, the release leaves most of the membrane intact thus allowing deep analysis of its structure. Interestingly enough, we found a Keratin-like material to be one of the major components. However the membrane remnants soon start to degrade completely, so that we suspect an enzyme triggered reaction.
We theorize, that in the course of the firing process, enzymes enclosed in the outer hull are released on the protective membrane, weakening it very fast, to a point that it will rupture on impact. Though this seems to be a very complicated way to deliver a gas payload, it has a huge advantage: AS long as the enzymes are not released the membrane ensures a safe containment of the contents, upon firing, the membrane still is strong enough to widthstand the acceleration, and it is only during flight, that the hull is degraded to a level that allows rupture upon impact.

Inside the membrane is a mixture simultaneously hellish and benign. It appears that the Aliens, in an effort to ensure that a creature of any physiology can be stunned, have implemented every possible form of nonlethal payload. Among gaseous agents alone, three different nerve gases have been isolated which all are engineered for both extreme effectiveness and total lack of longevity. In addition to this four other chemical agents could be identified which have an unknown effect and are probably directed against a different physiology than that encountered on earth. Most of these products seem to be of biological origin due to the complexity of their molecular structure. The release of the contents is accompanied by a high-voltage, low-current electrical shock that, while painful, can cause temporary paralysis but no permanent damage to humans. The contents, though not under pressure expand rapidly once the membrane tears.

We could trace the rapid gas expansion and the electric shock back to small amounts of the substance "Xenium" within the mixture.

Although some effects are not fully understood, we have replicated the Stun Bomb in its entirety and found that all effects remain.

One investigator suggested that X-Corps could re-engineer Stun Bombs and remove their effectiveness against humans, allowing X-Corps an incredible advantage. Unfortunately, of all of the effects thus far isolated, humans are susceptible to every single one. By some quirk, Terran vehicles such as XCAPS seem to be totally immune although some Alien-based circuitry may be susceptible to the electric discharge. Perhaps Terran circuitry is not advanced enough to be vulnerable...

"Stun Bomb? This this should be called the Super Bomb. With all this stuff in it, it's a wonder that the damn thing doesn't kill us."


Edited by Mad, 20 May 2008 - 06:52 AM.

Keep smiling while dying

Of course I have gone mad with power! It would be completely ridiculous to go mad without power!
And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#69 kafros

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Posted 21 May 2008 - 06:55 PM

http://www.jbc.org/c...t/106/2/605.pdf
http://www.skintreat....com/enzymatic/
http://www.wisegeek....-is-keratin.htm

The only "feasible" way I found to dissolve Keratin is to use Thioglycolic acid (TGA), the chemical used in... hair permanents :D. Sounds silly xD

Btw, the CT needed some major rephrasing and conversion to a more formal style.

STUN BOMB
X-Net://Pegasus.Net/Weapons/Alien Weapons/Stun Bomb

The Stun Bomb is a highly complex device, alas visually unimpressive, used to incapacitate a large range of biological species even adversely affect advanced circuitry.

"It also has been responsible for many nights of lost sleep among the biology and chemistry team, along with many minutes of unintentional slumber."
- Personal comment of Dr. Hans Wagner, group coordinator on the Stun Bomb project

It consists of three parts. The outer layer is a protective shell, which effectively isolates the projectile from the enviroment and renders it totally inert. While protected by this layer, the Bomb may be dropped, vibrated, or subjected to extreme heat, cold, or vacuum. As long as the protective layer isn't penetrated, the device can withstand enormous amounts of physical punishment and extreme temperature and pressure conditions. Inside the shell, however, a new layer can be located that resembles a membrane. These two layers provide the structural integrity of the shell. The studied unit had most of its membrane intact, thus allowing for easier study.

The membrane consists of a Keratin-based compound which can be easily teared apart. This provides another layer of protection for the shell's contents, as it is physically strong when the shell is idle. Once the user fires the weapon though, enzymes enclosed in the outer hull, including high amounts of thioglycolic acid, weaken it in a small amount of time, making so fragile that it ruptures on impact. The whole procedure may seem complicated, but it is nevertheless effective: : As long as the enzymes are not released the membrane ensures a safe containment of the contents; upon firing, the membrane is still strong enough to withstand the acceleration, and it is only at the later stages of its trajectory that the hull is degraded to a level that allows rupture upon impact. In case of shell penetration, the enzymes are rendered idle, thus greatly halting the release of the Stun Bomb's payload.

The contents of the shell consist of a mixture of many different chemical agents. Among gaseous agents alone, three different nerve gases have been isolated which are engineered for having a rapid effect on the target organism. Four other chemical agents could be identified which have an unknown effect and are probably directed against a different physiology than that encountered on Earth.
Most of these products seem to be of biological origin due to the complexity of their molecular structure. The release of the contents is accompanied by a high-voltage, low-current electrical shock that, while painful, can cause temporary paralysis but no permanent damage to humans. The contents , though not under pressure, expand rapidly once the membrane tears. We could trace the rapid gas expansion and the electric shock back to small amounts of the "Xenium" substance within the mixture.

Although some effects are not fully understood, we have replicated the Stun Bomb in its entirety and found that all effects remain.
One investigator suggested that X-Corps could re-engineer Stun Bombs and remove their effectiveness against humans, allowing X-Corps an incredible advantage. Unfortunately, of all of the effects thus far isolated, humans are susceptible to every single one. By some quirk, Terran vehicles such as XCAPS seem to be totally immune(You are either immune or not immune ;)) although some Alien-based circuitry may be susceptible to the electric discharge. Perhaps Terran circuitry is not advanced enough to be vulnerable...

"Stun Bomb? This should be called the Super Bomb. With all this stuff in it, it's a wonder that the damn thing doesn't kill us."
"[...] but don't you think it may be dangerous?"
"Aw cmon, just imagine returning home and having your wife whining about your leaving for so long! This little candy will help her calm down for a while!"
- Dr. Prikserman and Dr. Ohmanhaimer chit-chatting



#70 Mad

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 06:42 AM

wow, sorry I think you are going a bit overboard with your changes. I'll see what I can use. Actually I liked the style. Lemme see...
There are enzymes (and I was talking about enzymes and not about acids or other reagents) able to dissolve keratin (http://www.eurekah.com/chapter/3155) - and who says the alines haven't engineered sth which is able to dissolve keratin?

"You are either immune or not immune" - This is a common misconception. You can actually be semi-immune. The body is not digital. :)

STUN BOMB
X-Net://Pegasus.Net/Weapons/Alien Weapons/Stun Bomb

The Stun Bomb, while visually unimpressive, is in fact a highly complex device. Able to incapacitate members of wildly different species, and possibly even adversely affect advanced circuitry, it is a highly effective part of the alien arsenal.

"It also has been responsible for many nights of lost sleep among the biology and chemistry team, along with many minutes of unintentional slumber." - personal comment Dr. Hans Wagner, group coordinator on the Stun Bomb project

The Bomb has a three part design. The outer layer is a protective shell, which effectively isolates the actual projectile from the environment and renders it inert. While protected by this layer, the device can withstand enormous amounts of physical punishment and extreme temperature and pressure conditions.

Inside the shell, however, is a second layer best described as a Keratin-rich membrane. Physically strong when idle, the membrane nevertheless is designed to tear when hitting the target, thus releasing the enclosed contents. To fulfill these two seemingly contradicting functions, the designers of this weapon used a simple but effective trick: Once the user fires the weapon, enzymes enclosed in the outer hull weaken the membrane in a short amount of time, making it that fragile that it ruptures on impact. Though this seems to be a very complicated way to deliver a gas payload, it has a huge advantage: As long as the enzymes are not released the membrane ensures a safe containment of the contents; upon firing, the membrane is still strong enough to withstand the acceleration, and it is only at the later stages of its trajectory that the hull is degraded to a level that allows rupture upon impact.

The contents of the shell consist of a mixture of many different chemical agents. It appears that the Aliens, in an effort to ensure that a creature of any physiology can be stunned, have implemented every possible form of nonlethal payload. Among gaseous agents alone, three different nerve gases have been isolated which all are engineered for both extreme effectiveness and total lack of longevity. Four other chemical agents could be identified which have an unknown effect and are probably directed against a different physiology than that encountered on earth. Most of these products seem to be of biological origin due to the complexity of their molecular structure. The release of the contents is accompanied by a high-voltage, low-current electrical shock that, while painful, can cause temporary paralysis but no permanent damage to humans. The contents, though not under pressure expand rapidly once the membrane tears. We could trace the rapid gas expansion and the electric shock back to small amounts of the substance "Xenium" within the mixture.

Although some effects are not fully understood, we have replicated the Stun Bomb in its entirety and found that all effects remain. One investigator suggested that X-Corps could re-engineer Stun Bombs and remove their effectiveness against humans, allowing X-Corps an incredible advantage. Unfortunately, of all of the effects thus far isolated, humans are susceptible to every single one. By some quirk, Terran vehicles such as XCAPS seem to be totally immune although some Alien-based circuitry may be susceptible to the electric discharge. Perhaps Terran circuitry is not advanced enough to be vulnerable...

"Stun Bomb? This this should be called the Super Bomb. With all this stuff in it, it's a wonder that the damn thing doesn't kill us."


Keep smiling while dying

Of course I have gone mad with power! It would be completely ridiculous to go mad without power!
And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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