69 replies to this topic

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

This is just to add a little flavor to the campaign, more of a side-quest type thing.

Basically, if you capture and research a live Chryssilid (or capture a live Chryssilid after gaining the species data from a Medic), a new research branch appears: Chyssilid-Based Bio-Weapons. From there, there are two ways to take the idea.

The first idea is that once the bio-weapons angle is researched, you can build a Chyssilid Breeding Chamber (Base facility, very expensive, and long to build). Once that's built, you can initiate research in it at the beginning of the month. The Incident then occurs during the first month. This route give the player several chances to quit before crossing the line.

The other way is just to have the incident occur some time during the research process.

The Incident (insert ominous music here)

Basically, when it occurs (when, not if) this involves a large number of Chyssilids (10 or so...I was thinking actually 10% of your scientists maybe) break loose inside your base. If the base has soldiers in it, you can try to defend it, and kill all the chysillids before they convert everyone. Otherwise, the base is lost, along with all personnel (assume you have to hit it with a fuel air bomb, or maybe even nuke it...that would make the local government happy with you <_< )

What do people think?

-The Captain

[warhamster]

Hmmm... I like that idea. Those little side incidents will at least keep the game from getting too monotonous. Maybe we can think up of a few more 'incidents' and side stories like those. I think that the player should get a little something extra for exerting effort on little side trips like that, though.

[GreatGold]

So, if I understand correctly, these "incidents" would be similar to natural disasters from CimCity, etc? Could be a very interesting idea... what are some that you have been thinking about that already lay within the current researrch structure?

Gold

[miceless]

EDIT: Bloody double post...

... and yet again I dont have the power to do anything about it. Seven, and counting...

From the sound of your post I get the impression that this incident is guaranteed. I think some low probability random events would be better. For example, i slight remake on your idea. What if, during a live crysalid research event, the crysalid broke free. :o I think that would be better than a whole reaserch 'branch' that dead ends with a bad event. Once the palyer was playing for the second time, he would know not to even bother thinking about that topic.

Anyway, i have come up with some ideas along these lines. It occured to me that possibly at random times some events could be trigered:
Aliens could break out of containment (sectoids using psi powers), labs could have explosions (perhaps when researching certain topics), your soldiers could catch a disease (after visiting certain countries?), there could be powercuts (yeah yeah, generators i know), etc.

All kinds of little 'flavour events' could occur, to add a bit of fun!

[Cpl. Facehugger]

The hangar doors won't open, the defenses wont fire, cyanide gas leaks into your base killing everyone, a farmer discovers one of your bases and threatens to tell everyone, chryssalids start wearing armor, etc. Oh yeah there are lots of things you can make happen that are bad . But, it couldn't happen too often or people might start getting angry. "WTF my hanger wouldnt open and my plane blew up! It just happened last week!"

[GreatGold]

Hmmm -

I like these ideas, and I agree that a few smaller and random ones would be better than one or two big predestined ones. I especially like ideas centered around:

1.) Aliens breaking free
2.) More events relating to soldiers (such as one gets sick, and is out for a few days - or perhaps vacation time is needed - or one cracks under the pressure and is "forced" into retirement, etc)

These would add some randomness, that on a higher level, would really challenge a player. I also think that keeping them random enough, and rare enough, should not be a problem.

Gold

[miceless]

Agreed. Its like the Alien Activity sighting in TftD. Its rare, but its different when you get it.

Sorting out the exact randomness and frequency is just a matter of a little thought and some testing.

[Breunor]

To make the chryssallid branch useful, perhaps if you combined a percent chance of a breakout each month, you finally make a cure for their venom? Either a medkit option for curing a zombie after it's stunned, or eventually a vaccination against it for your soldiers. That would make it worth the possible risks. Would also make the player position their alien containment for better base defense...

I would steer away from hangars malfunctioning, last thing you need is a terror site being missed because a mechanic slept on the job. You do pay monthly costs for the hangar, supposedly to keep it in top condition. Perhaps the chance of aliens escaping from containment is 1% per alien held each month. It would encourage the player to research live aliens asap to avoid the chance.

[miceless]

Creatinga vaccine for crysalids would kindof make them useless. A medkit fix option could work, but im not sure.

I would also avoid hangar problems. You want events that will be interesting, but wont really affect the game that much. Things like:
-Alien escapes containment and is killed
-Soldier x catches disease (possible epidemic, but might be too serious)
-Blaster bomb explodes in lab, killing several scientists.
-Engineer killed in freak engineering accident
-lighting storm fries radar for a few hours.

That kind of thing.

[mikker]

-When researching heavy plasma without the (beta?), pistol, and riffle line, then it have like 50% of eksploding, killing all scientists in a lab (if more then 1 lab, the percentence of scientists killed is divided by the ammount), and all reasearch go lost (have to start start all over, unless you have build more labs. then you, again, losr a percentence acording on the ammounts of labs). The lab may even eksplode

Same would happen doing engineering (first only).

Edited by mikker, 06 August 2003 - 06:52 AM.

[miceless]

Again, i think that would be too drastic. Were trying to add some flavour, not set them back a week.

[Breunor]

Even having an alien get out and have it killed automatically would be extreme, if that alien is the commander you were researching. Having all the aliens get out and going to the battlescape would be fun, you could then stun the aliens if you want to keep them. Just imagine if the chryssallid got into your lab and started infecting the 100 scientists in there... how would you like to stop dozens of chryssallids in your base? Even if you win, you have to rehire all those lost people.

[miceless]

:: Your base becomes a crysalid breeding ground. Your soldiers would have fun defending that one!

As for losing the commander if he escaped, you can look at it two ways:
a.) Tough luck, get another one
b.) Lets be real nice and never allow this to happen to commanders. A special case where they can never escape. Maybe the beef up security with him.

Either way, i still like the idea. If there is more than one alien in containment, then sure, you could have a Containment Breach battlescape where you have to get them back. However, trying to recollect a few unarmed aliens may just be a pain. Who knows.

[j'ordos]

Maybe it should only happen with
1) psychic aliens, they can 'psi' their way out
2) aliens with HTH weapons, as they can break out by force

in any case, it should only happen with aliens who can put up a fight, as I seriously doubt even the sloppiest scientist would leave a plasma pistol in reach of that imprisoned Muton...

[miceless]

Yeah, but the mutons could break out just with his bare hands. And anyway, why would anyone guarding a muton carry only a plasma pistol? Suicidal if you ask me.

[j'ordos]

I know, but then it should be able to kill someone with it's bare hands too, otherwise it's going to be pretty boring. Oh no an escaped muton. Now I have to go look for him

[miceless]

Right, i was against the idea of any of these 'incidents' ever progressing too far. IMO it should just be a popup that tells you something has happened and what the (minor) condequences are. You should never have to go searching for escaped aliens on the battlescape.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

You should never have to go searching for escaped aliens on the battlescape.

I'm not sure, I think that hunting escaped aliens in your base would be intresting.

It would have to happen only when there are soldiers in your base.
Anyway, the escapees should be trying primarily to get to your radar/comms center, not killing your guys. Once they do get to your radar, they can send a message to the nearest alien ship for pickup. Then they would try to get to the access lift. If they make it there, well, good bye sectoid commander!

Hmm, maby the aliens could raid your stores to get some guns after breakout?

[miceless]

Problem is, if there is only one alien in containment and he breaks out then hes not realistically going to be able to get very far. It would get a tad annoying to have to search for one alien, when you know full well hes going to be near the containment.

I think it would be better to have them as simple incidents which have anywhere from no consequences to medium consequences. Taking your example, you could have an alien containment breach where the alien does reach the radar (lets ignore the fact that he somehow managed this. Everyone must have been on lunch break). PErhaps he sent a message, the aliens now know where you base is and there is a battleship on the way. :o

[GreatGold]

Hey -

I was thinking of incidents along the lines of Harpoons "random malfunctions". Where you lose radar for a day or two, or the mind shield goes down for maintenance, things of that nature. Random, unavoidable, create a new situation and twist, but no so drastic that it makes you want to start over. Just something to be worked around in the Geoscape for a few days.

Gold

[miceless]

Thats exactly what I was saying. We dont want to go over the top with the consequences as the user will have no control over the event.

[Breunor]

Well, if this thread started as a discussion of an optional research branch for chryssallid tech, it's a choice of whether having XYZ benefits is worth the research time and the possible events that could occur, right? If you're doing detailed work on the bug's anatomy, perhaps a scientist could be infected by the venom, and 1-6 scientists are lost before the zombie/bug is put down. There could be a set chance of something like that happening. The player is not taken unaware, as tehy could be warned that the potential risks are high.

[GreatGold]

Me likes idea very much.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Yes, the ideas are good, but we need to make it worthwile to research the entire chryssalid branch.

How about if the entire tree is researched then we get an extra 20?% to damage against chryssalids? (We learned how to target them more effectively.)
Or maby we could make it so that the branch is essiential to deveoping a bioweapon for use against aliens. It is up to the ctd to explain any of this.

[GreatGold]

Hey -

I think it might be best to drop the new research requirement, and just have random events. Otherwise its a truely v1.0+++ idea.

Gold

[miceless]

For example, i slight remake on your idea. What if, during a live crysalid research event, the crysalid broke free. :o I think that would be better than a whole reaserch 'branch' that dead ends with a bad event. Once the palyer was playing for the second time, he would know not to even bother thinking about that topic.

Yeah GG, like I said before, i think we should forget the special research topic and only have the random minor events.

[Breunor]

Unless there's extra time for programming before v1 releases, all these ideas are likely after v1. But if time permits and it's been fully fleshed out, it might be possible to include things like this in higher difficulties for example. The main issue is that in giving any bonus/penalty in game play, it has to be play tested (of course), so that makes it v1+ by default. But it's still good to get the whole thing out now and work out the details.

So far we have additional research that requires live dead chyssallids, the possibility of getting a medkit anti-venom, possible increase in damage shooting them, having one break loose and either kill a few scientists or start a battlescape base defense. I think the last one should wait for the potential "special missions" mentioned somewhere else, where the aliens find your base and attempt to rescue special units you have like a commander or navigator before you learn their secrets.

What other benefits could be had with this research? Other possible pitfalls? Right now it seems a bit slim to be more than 1 extra research slot IMO.

[j'ordos]

live dead chyssallids

Could you explain that one Breunor?

as for other research possibilities:
*more efficient engines: lower elirium consumption
*once you have alien alloys or personal armor: the standard and laser tanks, but with new armor, or a plasma tank on a standard chassis, as a stop-gap measure until hovertanks arrive
*personal mind shields
*alien proximity grenade

Edited by j'ordos, 08 August 2003 - 06:34 AM.

[miceless]

Wasnt it metioned somewhere that tanks would be modular? i.e. You can put any turret on any chasis? If not, then im mentioning it now.

Alien prox grens i like the sound of. They could be a human engineered upgrade using alien tech.

[miceless]

Something along those lines yes. Obviously we would only have a few combinations, but its the same theory.

That way, when you research Plasma cannons/hovertanks could can upgrade only the turret/chasis respectively.

[Aosar]

Maybe if u want an advanced model, there is a Custom Vehicle manufaturing option where for an extra cost and time the mechs.

Why would it cost more? And personally I think the ability to customize vehicles would be a creat addition, it was done in Apoc and it redeemed much of it's other flaws...

Like Alpha Centuri? That was a fantastic feature in the game, there were 10,000 different unit combinations I think.

I had Alpha Centauri once, but during a lapse of mental illness I sold it... Well, it had to be mental illness, right?

[Jesus Escariut]

okay, just to throw my vote out, i dont like the idea of my avenger blowing up with my best squad because a damn hanged wouldnt open... also shouldnt these events only be allowed to happen once after even 1 occurs it can never occure agian, i mean we are talking about the pinnacle of human military here, if something goes wrong they will find a way to safe guard agianst it so it never happens agian, dont you think it would be a little stupid every 3 months your radar goes out (i know it wouldnt happen that much) but after the first time im pretty sure we would think of a way to sheild it, and if a farmer sees our base im pretty sure we would kill him.

aliens breaking out makes sense if they have PSI though, and i think the high ranking aliens should have a higher chance of breaking out lets say the commander escapes, but when he does he has a your soldier with the lowest PSI str under his control as well, and maybe even a weapon that the solider gave to him?

geographic placement of your base should have a weight on random occurances, if you have a base in india or california its more likely to have an earth quake

**Your maitance for this month was an additional $XXX,XXX because of a earthquake** nothing big u just lose some money maybe even lose a scientist of solider

as far as disease and sickness .. i doubt an epidemic would occur since these guys go through the highest levels of decontamination,... then agian... we dont know all the alien diseases.. so maybe you could get that one occurance where u catch hybrid small pox (cause we all know small pox came from mars) but after that it can never happen agian, since you find the cure.

well that was my rant.

[miceless]

i dont like the idea of my avenger blowing up with my best squad because a damn hanged wouldnt open...

I dont ever think that we intended the avenger to blow up, and I think we all agreed that the hangar being unable to open was a bit sily.

also shouldnt these events only be allowed to happen once after even 1 occurs it can never occure agian, i mean we are talking about the pinnacle of human military here, if something goes wrong they will find a way to safe guard agianst it so it never happens agian, dont you think it would be a little stupid every 3 months your radar goes out (i know it wouldnt happen that much) but after the first time im pretty sure we would think of a way to sheild it ...

Indeed. I was thinking along the lines of special things that probably wouldnt happen at all, let alone more that once. But you are right, they should not really happen twice, in general.

... and if a farmer sees our base im pretty sure we would kill him.

Poor guy! Obviously you take base security very seriously.

aliens breaking out makes sense if they have PSI though, and i think the high ranking aliens should have a higher chance of breaking out lets say the commander escapes, but when he does he has a your soldier with the lowest PSI str under his control as well, and maybe even a weapon that the solider gave to him?

Indeed, but going to the battlescape just to fight one commander is still overkill IMO. But we can leave that until later.

geographic placement of your base should have a weight on random occurances, if you have a base in india or california its more likely to have an earth quake

Heh, that could indeed be possible. Im sure we can think of a few location specific events.

**Your maitance for this month was an additional $XXX,XXX because of a earthquake** nothing big u just lose some money maybe even lose a scientist of solider

Exactly. I like the budget increase idea. Its a small event, thats fun to have, but it wont seriously affect the game.

as far as disease and sickness .. i doubt an epidemic would occur since these guys go through the highest levels of decontamination,... then agian... we dont know all the alien diseases.. so maybe you could get that one occurance where u catch hybrid small pox (cause we all know small pox came from mars) but after that it can never happen agian, since you find the cure.

I think if your team did a mission in certain areas then the could catch something. Jungle for example. The decontamination wouldnt really help, but they would just be out of action for a day. Im not sure if epidemics would be a good idea (we're into major events then), but it would be funny to have one of your soldiers out for a few days with diarrhea.

[warhamster]

I was thinking we could get some more random type of event that won't really affect the game's story line but could somewhat affect the game itself. If anybody remembers the quests that you bumped into in Diablo I. You could actually ignore the quests and just run straight to the bottom of heck. But doing the quests gave you yummy stuff like Lachdanan's helm. I was thinking something more along those lines. Like a special army prototype weapon is stolen by the aliens and recovering it, and then keeping it for yourself. Something like that. Or maybe, rescuing someone like Mel Gibson from alien abduction and he decides to donate a million and his Malibu beach house for Xcom's use. You know.

[miceless]

, an xcom 'base' in a Malibu beach house.
"Honest sir, the aliens are a real threat out here. We just have to be here to ensure the safety of the locals."

I like the idea of having special missions. Rare ones that as you say could have some kind of reward at the end (be it money or equipment). That is however different from the random events we are talking about. Random missions would be even more v1+ than events would be.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Maybe if u want an advanced model, there is a Custom Vehicle manufaturing option where for an extra cost and time the mechs.

Well, if we have customizeable tanks, can we have a hover tank with a laser or how about a rocket launcher?

Anyway, random events would be cool. For instance: when you are intercepting a ufo, one of your weapon pods jams so you can only use one.

Random missions would be even better.

[Aosar]

Yeah, a Laser Hovertank would be sweet. Exellent mobility combined with good strenght and unlimited ammo, a match(sp?) made in heaven, so to speak...

[Fred the Goat]

I agree with [edit] Je$u$. Little bits of elerium for hoovering and firing of all alien weapons.

As for special missions, heck yeah. We were talking about special weapons earlier, you could get them by beating special missions. I think it could even be v.1, it wouldn't add any drastic changes to the game as a whole programming, text, or otherwise, it'd just be add-ons (weapons and base raids and such) with slightly different properties. I especially like the alien-esque chryssalid escape. It could give you a chryssalid-claw weapon or somesuch. I could explain it . And maybe you can even cram as many aliens as you want into your containment, but you increase the risk of a breakout dramatically, that way you wouldn't be chasing lone sectoids around so much as controlling a real invasion. Of course, mutons and floaters wouldn't break out by themselves, they'd need help. Because they're pansies.

-Fred

Edited by Fred the Goat, 11 August 2003 - 12:09 PM.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Finailly someone came up with a way to include alien breakouts! my mug goes out to you

Anyway, I'm just worried about my elerium supplies if hover tanks used them in addition to everything else.

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

Of course, mutons and floaters wouldn't break out by themselves, they'd need help.  Because they're pansies.

Actually, that would be a great reason for the break out. You've got a bunch of leftover mutons sitting around, with 3 effective brain cells between them. Then you capture an etheral, and toss him in the lock up....next thing you know, you've got a major rampage on your hands.

-The Captain

[miceless]

You could research a "Psi Damper" as an upgrade to the Alien Containment, to stop it from happening again.

[Breunor]

I just moved all the posts about elerium use to another thread in the lab called 'elerium'. Let's keep this thread on topic about the chryssallid research please.

[miceless]

They were kinda related...

[Breunor]

Sorry Miceless, but there was no relation at all. Finding elerium in alien bases and how much the HWP used is different than having additional research based on chryssallid tech. I understand that you could put some research benefit into an upgraded tank or something, but there was like 15 posts I moved.

So back on topic, one of the things that sets the bugs apart from other aliens is their speed. IIRC they get like 120 TUs, so maybe researching them could lead to a medkit option for a syrum that increases your TUs for like 3 turns? After that, the TUs go back to normal, but your energy level drops like it does when you walk through smoke I think. Might be useful when you're about to rush a ufo and want to move as fast as possible.

Once it wears off the lower energy prevents you from moving very far, but you can still shoot I think. I forget how energy is used in-game.

[miceless]

Hehe, i know i know.

IIRC you could still shoot with no energy. But im not sure I like the idea of Stim Packs and such in medkits. Partly its just another complication but also I like to think that the guys can do it alone. I guess thats just my preference though...

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Didn't chryssalid claws do damage to tanks too? (read: physical damage) Sooo, if we complete the risky chryssalid research branch, then we could make our soldiers immune to venom, but still get hurt by the claws. Civies would also be very vlunerable. This way it's still balanced.

Edited by Cpl. Facehugger, 13 August 2003 - 01:28 PM.