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#1 j'ordos

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 01:43 PM

of course the second he fires the thing there is an even bigger shoot me sign going back to his location :)

Unless the laser emits em-waves whose wavelength is outside of the visible spectrum... then again, what's the visible spectrum for those aliens? :wacko:
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#2 dteviot

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 02:16 PM


of course the second he fires the thing there is an even bigger shoot me sign going back to his location :)

Unless the laser emits em-waves whose wavelength is outside of the visible spectrum... then again, what's the visible spectrum for those aliens? :wacko:

Actually, even if the wavelength is in the visible spectrum you don't normally see the beam. Unless there's a lot of particles (dust or mist) in the air. Of course, for game purposes we show the laser trajectory (as we do for bullets, which you don't usually see either.)
And to be honest, the glowing look of the gun has a high "coolness" factor.

Edited by dteviot, 31 July 2006 - 02:18 PM.

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#3 Mad

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 03:49 PM

[...] Unless there's a lot of particles (dust or mist) in the air. [...]

Plus, if it really is a high energy beam you might hear some sort of thunder (expanding air due to the heat produced by the beam) and depending on the environmental effects see a trail of ionized gas...
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#4 fux0r666

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 01:36 AM

And the red/blue colour photons would knock electrons out of orbit of the air molecules why? I'm challenging your statement out of an interest for knowledge, only.

I think that it is more likely that the energy released by the power supply of the laser would be noticible and perhaps quite loud.

This is more of a sound dept. matter in terms of the sound the thing will actually make in the game, the conversation aside.

Edited by fux0r666, 01 August 2006 - 01:40 AM.


Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#5 kafros

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 03:23 AM

This is more of a sound dept. matter in terms of the sound the thing will actually make in the game, the conversation aside.

Don't forget the glowing rifle ^_^

#6 Mad

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 05:03 AM

And the red/blue colour photons would knock electrons out of orbit of the air molecules why? I'm challenging your statement out of an interest for knowledge, only.

because... I say so... No, actually you're right and I didn't think about what I was writing. I was thinking of the compton effect, but a visible light photon won't have enough energy for that despite the power of the beam.

I think that it is more likely that the energy released by the power supply of the laser would be noticible and perhaps quite loud.

Not necessarily. If the energytransfer is routed over superconducting materials there shouldn't even be a hum. In my humble opinion. (pun intended. :P )

Edited by Mad, 01 August 2006 - 05:06 AM.

Keep smiling while dying

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And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#7 fux0r666

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 03:20 AM

Well, very high capacity...er.. capacitors discharging all at once tends to make noise. In fact, where there is a high degree of voltage difference per meter, there tends to be noise.. but I'm not sure that this is proportional to the degree of resistence. At least in the case of capacitors, they tend to emit a thumping noise. I think this may be due to the capacitor subtly changing dimensions as it is going from a state in which it is magnetically repelling itself to a very high degree, to a state in which it is not repelling itself much at all, over the course of a very short time. The result is a vibration. Of course, that is all speculation on my part. But, where there is quite a lot of kinetic electical energy, there tends to be a lot of noise.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#8 Mad

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 04:00 AM

There is a humming noise on AC voltage lines/components because the changing electromagnetic field induces a resonant oscillation in the surroundings (air, electric components etc etc). But for DC voltage (which is the standard output of every energy cell) the only source of noise could be 1) a jumping spark or a melting conductor because the conductors can't take the amount of energy needed to be transferred or 2) the suddenly built up electromagnetic field (resulting in what I think you meant by "thumping noise" :) ) which both can be avoided if one uses supraconducting elements, because the electromagnetic field around supraconductors is substancially lower than that around "normal" conductors.

But I guess we're going a bit off topic here... :) Let's move to the patio if you would like to discuss a bit more on this. :)

Edited by Mad, 02 August 2006 - 04:06 AM.

Keep smiling while dying

Of course I have gone mad with power! It would be completely ridiculous to go mad without power!
And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#9 Shinzon

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 09:52 AM

Usualy superconductors have be cooled down to a very low state (Usualy by liquid Nitrogen) and when electricity passes through them they form a small but strong magnec field (Enough to make a small coin levitate) I think...

If thats the case, then the laser rifle is a very advanced piece of technology...

#10 Mad

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Posted 02 August 2006 - 10:44 AM

Usualy superconductors have be cooled down to a very low state (Usualy by liquid Nitrogen) and when electricity passes through them they form a small but strong magnec field (Enough to make a small coin levitate) I think...

If thats the case, then the laser rifle is a very advanced piece of technology...

Indeed. The magnetic field is very small. It's so small and strong, because the magnetic field normally found inside the conductor is forced to be outside of it.
Now comes the fun part: There are materials called high temperature superconductors. High temperature in this case means 63 Kelvin. Still pretty cold. But since the Laser rifle is an advanced piece of technology, I think it is fair to assume, X-Corps scientists did find a way to produce superconductors working at room temperature. In fact, the CT mentiones superconductors... http://www.xcomufo.c...=...st&p=155702 :)
Keep smiling while dying

Of course I have gone mad with power! It would be completely ridiculous to go mad without power!
And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#11 fux0r666

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 03:33 AM

Off topic or not, if you are not speaking from a position of knowledge of authority on this topic, I would like to know. Which parts, if any, are you using logic, layman knowledge (or, as it is otherwise known, 'wikipedia'), or conjecture in the below?

There is a humming noise on AC voltage lines/components because the changing electromagnetic field induces a resonant oscillation in the surroundings (air, electric components etc etc). But for DC voltage (which is the standard output of every energy cell) the only source of noise could be 1) a jumping spark or a melting conductor because the conductors can't take the amount of energy needed to be transferred or 2) the suddenly built up electromagnetic field (resulting in what I think you meant by "thumping noise" :) ) which both can be avoided if one uses supraconducting elements, because the electromagnetic field around supraconductors is substancially lower than that around "normal" conductors.

But I guess we're going a bit off topic here... :) Let's move to the patio if you would like to discuss a bit more on this. :)



Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#12 kafros

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 07:59 AM

There are materials called high temperature superconductors. High temperature in this case means 63 Kelvin. Still pretty cold.

http://hyperphysics....olids/hitc.html

I was definitely wrong, I once though I read that the highest temperature for a specific superconductor to show these features was around -20 Celcius... It probably was 20K <_<

I guess a superconductor working at -30 Celcius would be a feasible objective for X-Corps scientists... They would also use an efficient coolant for that purpose.

Edited by kafros, 03 August 2006 - 08:01 AM.


#13 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 09:37 AM

Me feels you should really either take this discussion to the CTD thread or to the Patio.

#14 Mad

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 10:35 AM

Off topic or not, if you are not speaking from a position of knowledge of authority on this topic, I would like to know. Which parts, if any, are you using logic, layman knowledge (or, as it is otherwise known, 'wikipedia'), or conjecture in the below?

My sources are: My physics knowledge gained at the University (about three years physics) and a good friend of mine who is a physicist.
However, if you would like to have literature links for that, I am afraid I only can give you sth. for the supreconductors: http://www.physorg.com/news5893.html ; http://hyperphysics....olids/hitc.html ; http://en.wikipedia....perconductivity

But for the other parts you'll just have to believe that I speak from a position of knowledge. Sorry.

Edited by Mad, 03 August 2006 - 10:42 AM.

Keep smiling while dying

Of course I have gone mad with power! It would be completely ridiculous to go mad without power!
And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#15 fux0r666

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 01:50 PM

I have three years in psychology, specializing in biopsychology, but I don't claim to know where the mind comes from ;)

If I simply took your word for it, I wouldn't be a very good scientist, would I? Surely, as a student of science, you've covered the philosophy of science and critical thinking aswell as the science part.

It seems to me that this question of where the sound comes from is sort of like the question of where the mind comes from. It's sort of moot because it doesn't really matter. This hints at the fact that it's probably not part of your curriculum. My father is in research and development in electronics, and his expertise and experience probably outstrips yours. He can think of many possible reasons why those photo-flashes make those noises, the least of which is an actual electromagnetic field agitating air molecules. There would be an easy way to tell, though, wouldn't there? Set up an oscilloscope with the probe connected to the ground wire near the flash as it flashes.. which I happen to have in front of me, and I may actually conduct this experiment in the coming week if I have time. The duration of the flash is only 1/2000ths of a second, though. I'm sure that you can infer whether or not this discharge would be long and powerful enough in duration to release enough magnetic force to cause an audible vibration in the air.

In sum, your explanation is possible but I don't think that it is the best one. There are many reasons why discharging capacitors may make noise. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm highly skeptical. I'm attempting to test your idea through the only means available to me. If you wish to convince me, you'll have to put some more work into it than asking me to trust you.

While we're on the topic, do you know why those flashes make a whining sound when they power up?

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#16 Mad

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Posted 07 August 2006 - 02:40 PM

I have three years in psychology, specializing in biopsychology, but I don't claim to know where the mind comes from ;)

hehe :)

If I simply took your word for it, I wouldn't be a very good scientist, would I? Surely, as a student of science, you've covered the philosophy of science and critical thinking aswell as the science part.

true, but this prooves to prove difficult... :)

[...]
In sum, your explanation is possible but I don't think that it is the best one. There are many reasons why discharging capacitors may make noise. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm highly skeptical. I'm attempting to test your idea through the only means available to me. If you wish to convince me, you'll have to put some more work into it than asking me to trust you.

You are talking about the "thump" flashes make when flashing? I would say this is due to the rapidly expanding air around the flash tube, because it heats up so fast.
But please tell me about the outcome of your experiment! :)

While we're on the topic, do you know why those flashes make a whining sound when they power up?

No, well, actually not sure. It could be the coils in the power regulator for the condensator powering the "bulb".
Keep smiling while dying

Of course I have gone mad with power! It would be completely ridiculous to go mad without power!
And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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