New Geoscape Suggestion

[Fatal_Error]

ok now i have seen quite many x-com variations and came up with a different layout. this is merely a sketch of a bump map but i hope u get my drift...

 

explanation:

1) zoom buttons are still missing though i now have a vision about 'em

2) big round wireframe is just a placeholder

3) the bottom control panel is going to change a bit but only very little

 

as for menus and buttons there should be only 2 visible at all times. those buttons are "game menu" (temporary name for now) and "intercept" they will both be in the corners so that u wont have to aim at em (like on mac os and xp). "game menu" button should show the rest of the old menu (though that menu will change anyways so it will be a new menu).

 

if you dont like it then ill just ditch the layout . dont worry i wont cry

 

edit: [

some mo explanation:

the rectangles next to "game menu" represent time control coz imo the old one sucked a bit and e.g. i used only maybe 3 of 'em. dont worry its going to look better with texture

]

[Guest stewart]

Obvously more filling in is needed. The control bar on the bottom and the elements inside it are odd together. Either make the bar straight or have everything in it follow its' curve.

[gangsta]

Well The thing to remeber is that the geoscope for the single player and the multiplayer version are diffrent. In multiplayer mode there are no time settings but there would be other settings only available to multiplayer (hasn't been thought out fully yet) Anyway, your interface pays too much attention to the time and everything else look like it will get a tiny button. It looks sweet but I don't know if it will work. The current one RK has is easy to change between mutliplayer and single player modes. perhaps we should wait until we get a clearer idea of what multiplayer needs on the panel.

[red knight]

Well The thing to remeber is that the geoscope for the single player and the multiplayer version are diffrent.  In multiplayer mode there are no time settings but there would be other settings only available to multiplayer (hasn't been thought out fully yet)  Anyway, your interface pays too much attention to the time and everything else look like it will get a tiny button.  It looks sweet but I don't know if it will work.  The current one RK has is easy to change between mutliplayer and single player modes.  perhaps we should wait until we get a clearer idea of what multiplayer needs on the panel.

But keep excercising your mind, you will end up with something useful. Looks too dull, maybe with more colors and stuff, the layout is good and easy to implement. The same comment as gangsta about the time buttons.

 

You can take a picture of the world and create some pictures of concept interfaces as final releases would look. Its a better way to know if it will work or not.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Deimos]

How about making the world a little larger and having that the centre of focus. Have the time maybe in the top right small and unobtrusive. Tht way it'll leave plenty of space for messages and so on at the bottom. On another thread there was talk of replacing the pop ups with and updating stock ticker. That would go nicely in the place of the buttons and where the date currently is.

Then have the butons spaced out, the two smaller timeframe buttons on th left and maybe the hour and day on the right.

 

If you want to keep the curved effect, have it so the curve is the other way reaching up at the sides and have the buttons fit into it rather than just being squared. Maybe keep all the controls together, so have the geoscape rotate and zoom in the bar somewhere too.

 

Other than that I like it. It'll look good when it's got the texture map on and the starfield behind.

[gangsta]

Well The thing to remeber is that the geoscope for the single player and the multiplayer version are diffrent.  In multiplayer mode there are no time settings but there would be other settings only available to multiplayer (hasn't been thought out fully yet)  Anyway, your interface pays too much attention to the time and everything else look like it will get a tiny button.  It looks sweet but I don't know if it will work.  The current one RK has is easy to change between mutliplayer and single player modes.  perhaps we should wait until we get a clearer idea of what multiplayer needs on the panel.

But keep excercising your mind, you will end up with something useful. Looks too dull, maybe with more colors and stuff, the layout is good and easy to implement. The same comment as gangsta about the time buttons.

 

You can take a picture of the world and create some pictures of concept interfaces as final releases would look. Its a better way to know if it will work or not.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

I think he should try putting his nice rounded panel on the right side like the old one. There too much space wasted in his current version between the horizontal edges of the monitor and the planet. It did look nice though considering that it was the concept layout.

[Xcen]

We're obviously getting closer to something cool!

 

Keep working on it... I agree that the date seems a little out of place because of the thingy's curve

 

oh... texturize!!!

[Fatal_Error]

ok this is my lates work on the geoscape field

this thread should only contain opinions about this specific layout only (and those that are added later here ...maybe). discussion about gui design overally and about the functionality should go into "gui desing" thread so keep that in mind plz

 

notes:

1) the colors suck imo too right now and im working on 'em but would like to get everybodys 2 cents about what colors should be used on buttons and other stuff.

2) i know that the top right hand corner shortcuts seem a bit ripped off from the aftermath but i really didnt put much effort into 'em right now and im open for suggestion.

 

edit: and im probably gonna make the main control panel a bit smaller

[Maverick]

i don't like the stars in the background...I think there are too many and they are too big/bright... try using this instead just to see what it looks like.

[red knight]

ok this is my lates work on the geoscape field

this thread should only contain opinions about this specific layout only (and those that are added later here ...maybe). discussion about gui design overally and about the functionality should go into "gui desing" thread so keep that in mind plz

 

notes:

1) the colors suck imo too right now and im working on 'em but would like to get everybodys 2 cents about what colors should be used on buttons and other stuff.

2) i know that the top right hand corner shortcuts seem a bit ripped off from the aftermath but i really didnt put much effort into 'em right now  and im open for suggestion.

 

edit: and im probably gonna make the main control panel a bit smaller

I think that layout is too invasive, specially on close ups (where you do a complete zoom in), try put the intercept button on the other side, so we can center the globe on the other side... thats why i had kept the original layout.

 

The background is too crowded, take a look at the one that i had used in the demo, its pretty colorful but not too crowded, you dont even notice it is there until you look directly at it.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[LordT]

I'm not particulary happy with the "digital clock" text for the time/date.

[Guest Guest]

Ok I think the original style with the control panel being on the right is better. just give it a sexy shape like the first attempt of a new panel. The Digital Clock takes up alot of space

[Guest gangsta <--]

forgot to login

[Fatal_Error]

I think that layout is too invasive, specially on close ups (where you do a complete zoom in), try put the intercept button on the other side, so we can center the globe on the other side... thats why i had kept the original layout.

 

The background is too crowded, take a look at the one that i had used in the demo, its pretty colorful but not too crowded, you dont even notice it is there until you look directly at it.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

what do u mean by invasive? put only intercept button on the other side??

 

the globe aint centered on one side right now ... its totally centered

 

im aware of the background issue though i think it shouldnt be so colorful and im still looking for the right background

 

to gangsta: why do u think we should keep the old layout ... afterall this is a remake and as i understood the whole outlook is going to be better. imo the old layout does not sync with the new ideas

 

to lordt: and your suggestion would be?

 

to maverick: thats too few stars imho but as i said ill keep looking

 

do not think that i wanna stick to this layout no matter what its just that im trying to develop a constructive conversation here to figure out what people like/dont like and why and so on

[gangsta]

That's too confusing to put the interface on two sides of the globe. As for the old design I think it was designed with user interface in mind. It makes sense to have the controls on the right side of the screen and the globe on the other side. You don't want to center the globe in the center of the screen because you are wasting too much space that way. Instead you should center it on the left part of the screen. Anyway I think Red Knight is pretty much saying the same thing. Also as for the stars those will get added possibly in the code. Perhaps we can get the data for the constelations visible from the earth. I would like seeing orion in the background.

[red knight]

It makes sense to have the controls on the right side of the screen and the globe on the other side.  You don't want to center the globe in the center of the screen because you are wasting too much space that way.  Instead you should center it on the left part of the screen.  Anyway I think Red Knight is pretty much saying the same thing.

 

Exactly you are wasting a lot of space that makes it look just plain too empty... and on the other hand the control is put over important data (the world) so you lose a lot of information on close ups...

 

Also as for the stars those will get added possibly in the code.  Perhaps we can get the data for the constelations visible from the earth.   I would like seeing orion in the background.

I dont think that the complexity (and calculations) needed for implementing a code based constelation generation is worth the effort, anyway you can do the trick with a single texture map, and when you rotate modifying the texture coordinates of the backplane. Even though its not difficult we should treat it as eye candy no more than that... directly to the wish list.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Guest Guest]

I like it. Though Perhaps having all the info on the right ala the original would be better. Have the clock on more than one line poss. in the bottom right.

 

There was talk of an updating tickertape which would look good rolling along the bottom. in the place of the current placing of the date.

 

Maybe the buttons could be done in metallic like the fonts Stewart suggested to me in one of the other threads. Maverick did them. Maybe keep the length of the buttons but have them more of a rounded 3d with a slight blue glow behind.

 

Instead of it being a block like xcom1 have each button as a seperate entity, though I do like the red intercept button. Gives a sense of urgency to it.

 

Or keep it themed with the rest of the buttons and have a red glow instead of blue?

[Deimos]

Or keep it themed with the rest of the buttons and have a red glow instead of blue?

Grr, stupid computer. Log me in.

[Fatal_Error]

ok im taking many suggestions and opinions into account for the next version of a similar layout though i dont get it....

 

1) why do u want the globe on one side and the ui on the other?

2) why does everybody speak about wasting space like theres a real need for it in geoscape view?

3) does everybody or at least the majority think that all the buttons should be visible (that were visible in the original x-com) in geoscape view at all times (conversely to the idea that there should be only a few + some shortcuts to other controls that were not on the main screen in the original game)?

 

to gangsta: it actually does not make sence to me why the controls should be on the right side tightly together but yes it was the case in the original game .... no offence ofcooz

[Deimos]

ok im taking many suggestions and opinions into account for the next version of a similar layout though i dont get it....

1) It appears to me like there's too much 'wasted' space. Not wasted as in lost opportunity but as in maybe there should be something there but isn't. wasted space isn't the right name for it, potentially usable space.

 

Also there is in film and photography something called shot composition where the shot is broken up into three equal parts by two invisible lines and your main focus should be within two of the adjacent boxes so to speak. There's an article here on it http://www.simplydv.co.uk/tech/camskillmenu.html Article 2 talks about the lines.

 

I know it's based on camcorder skills but if you look at any tv or film, you'll see it. Like the review says it looks more aesthically pleasing.

 

2) It looks empty, like your focus could be elsewhere. If the planet were full screen, covering every bit other than the UI and corners it draws the attention in. Hence why the view zooms in for an interception, it drags your attention in and heightens the tension further with the uptempo music.

 

3) Personally I would prefer a cleaner interface but that does detract away from the original.

 

I think the controls are a psychological thing. It wouldn't make much difference if they were on the left, up above or spaced out but with the controls grouped on the right they are together I'd bet most people's mouse's are on the right too making it seem quicker to select something.

Or I could be spouting rubbish

 

Oh how did the discussion about using nightmaps go? I ask becasue I've got one and it looks pretty spectacular. I think would look amazing on the geoscape.

[Guest stewart]

What do you think of this: option between globe or flat world map display?

[Fatal_Error]

What do you think of this: option between globe or flat world map display?

is that one of those rhetorical questions?

[Fatal_Error]

ok with this layout i took into account many of your opinions ... mainly the "buttons on the right" one

 

NB! "eye candy 4000" should come with a reminder .... "DO NOT FORGET TEXTURES!!!"

[Guest stewart]

What do you think of this: option between globe or flat world map display?

is that one of those rhetorical questions?

That's for the spelling info no I'm serious!

[red knight]

ok with this layout i took into account many of your opinions ... mainly the "buttons on the right" one

 

NB! "eye candy 4000" should come with a reminder .... "DO NOT FORGET TEXTURES!!!"

Well that looks far better and balanced.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Deimos]

What do you think of this: option between globe or flat world map display?

Not sure it looks as good.

Just got this off the nasa site and edited it.

[Guest stewart]

Reminds me, Red Knight how tough to do seasons, and weather. I think shooting it out in thunderstorm would be cool!

[abstract]

I wrote a script a few years back that generates star fields that will blow your mind, complete with multi color and multi style nebulae, and various star sizes, it will generate a near infinite number of completely different scenes, and would make the geoscape look alot nicer.

[red knight]

Reminds me, Red Knight how tough to do seasons, and weather.  I think shooting it out in thunderstorm would be cool!

Where you are thinking the weather would be?? in Geoscape or in battlescape?? With the right tech everything is posible... but thats depend if you want to buy a GeForce FX (and one for me to program it and testing it ) just to look at the realtime generated weather in the geoscape...

 

Rain and sunsets, and the like in battlescape should not be too difficult (but im just guessing).

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Maverick]

How is the earth textured? You could do a randomized number for a series of weather patterns that were overlay textures for the planet (it would repeat, but the repeats could be far apart depending on how many "series" of weather patterns) I don't know if its possible to program it this way, but its how I would have done it back in the day in QBasic. You could also have it so that after you zoom in so far the weather disappears...

[Deimos]

Would the night time texture be a problem in the 3d geoscape.

 

I don't know enough about programming to know otherwise. Would it just be a case of adding the night map onto the night section overlaying the daytime world?

[Fatal_Error]

ok with this layout i took into account many of your opinions ... mainly the "buttons on the right" one

 

NB! "eye candy 4000" should come with a reminder .... "DO NOT FORGET TEXTURES!!!"

Well that looks far better and balanced.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

thx though im not completely ... actually not at all pleased with it myself either yet. im having doubts about the buttons (both types) and that time control thingy is just a sketch and id like to get your (RKs) feedback if we could and would implement a similar time control?

[red knight]

thx though im not completely ... actually not at all pleased with it myself either yet. im having doubts about the buttons (both types) and that time control thingy is just a sketch and id like to get your (RKs) feedback if we could and would implement a similar time control?

Dont worry about the programming stuff, but i can give ya a hint... simple controls like buttons (every size, shape, color or texture) are not difficult to make them work. The same for Radio Buttons. Free style panels (like the ones you see in windows) either, almost the same. Map Interactors, like the ones you use in web images, the same as the others. Sliders... well didnt programmed one yet (at least not until we are really sure we will need it) but i think the most difficult stuff is the mouse sliding part, not put it toghether. (In my opinion buttons are the best in this case because time interval are not linear). I like the idea of a simple slider like control with buttons like the one you had added in then last geoscape suggestion.

 

Dont worry about transparencies, blending, glow, and other effects (at least if they are not too complicated).

 

Hope that would help ya, if not just ask.

 

Greetings

Red Knight

[Fatal_Error]

the lates and the greatest . imo almost ok except the intercept button which i still think should be read so that it would be easily recognizable

 

oh oh and if anyone thinks that the time aint so important and thus the clock at the bottom of the screen is still too big then i do NOT agree. TIME is THE most important thing in THIS game though u maybe dont notice it all the time. EVERYTHING in this game RELIES on TIME and TIMING!!!

[Deimos]

It's looking really professional now. Can I suggest the buttons are bigger to fill more of the empty space? You're right about the time. But would you try it out on the right in between the top and bottom buttons like the original.

00:00

Saturday 30th

January 2003

 

Oh and would you see how the globe looks filling the screen?

[Fatal_Error]

It's looking really professional now.  Can I suggest the buttons are bigger to fill more of the empty space? You're right about the time. But would you try it out on the right in between the top and bottom buttons like the original.

      00:00

Saturday 30th

January 2003

 

Oh and would you see how the globe looks filling the screen?

to deimos

answers to your questions:

no

no

yes

 

longer answers:

 

Q: why not make buttons bigger?

A: coz the upper menu represents shortcuts to game controls (see the examples) and thus should be configurable meaning there can be more than 3 shortcuts. my idea is to allow user to add shortcuts to anything he/she likes ...even system functions like save eg.

 

Q: why not put clock on the right edge?

A: coz imho in the original game the clock layout sucked and the clock was obviously overrated in the layout though u maybe didnt notice it because there was minimum amount of contract between the clock digits and the background. but if u can give some good reasons why the clock sux right now then ill change it ...

[Fatal_Error]

ok some mo views from the new layout

and apologize go to modem users coz each picture is ~300kb in size to keep the quality at max

 

1) deimos request of zoomed in earth

[Fatal_Error]

2) menu style though not yet the way id like it to be but then again i need everybodys opinion

[Devatar]

Ooh,

Ooh,

I like

That menu.

 

--Devatar, "Menu, menu, I love you."

 

 

 

Ahh, such a poet.

 

Hmm... That menu looks great, error. Do the letters get highlighted with green when the pointer is over them?

[Deimos]

1) deimos request of zoomed in earth

Thanks. It does increase the feel of urgency but I now I've seen it I think you're right about having the whole globe, seems more detatched somehow.

[gangsta]

ok im taking many suggestions and opinions into account for the next version of a similar layout though i dont get it....

 

1) why do u want the globe on one side and the ui on the other?

 

Because of Basic UI design. UI has been studied since the 60's or 70's and we know what works and doesn't work. This has to do with how the brain processes information. People get in information from left to right and then up to down. This means that the most important information should be on the left side of the screen. That is your display where you see what happens to the world. The less important stuff like the buttons get put on the right. You don't pay attention to the buttons as much accept when you have to click on one and then you look and click and your attention shifts back to the left. In fact to show how well known a concept this is I will attach a picture of X-Chat where the important information like the chat window is on the left and the buttons on the right.

 

2) why does everybody speak about wasting space like theres a real need for it in geoscape view?

 

Well we're saying you are wasting space. people start focusing in on the wasted space.

 

3) does everybody or at least the majority think that all the buttons should be visible (that were visible in the original x-com) in geoscape view at all times (conversely to the idea that there should be only a few + some shortcuts to other controls that were not on the main screen in the original game)?

 

well that's something we can discuss if you show us what you thinking of.

 

to gangsta: it actually does not make sence to me why the controls should be on the right side tightly together but yes it was the case in the original game .... no offence ofcooz

 

well the original developers were just using common UI design knowledge. Programmers are thought these concepts at the university level. These are things that have been studied for years and proven to work.

[gangsta]

What do you think of this: option between globe or flat world map display?

I've suggested this before as an optional replacement for the geoscope.. perhaps as you suggest those two could be merged into one.. although for a fantasy game you probably would just have a small map of a country or something.

[gangsta]

the lates and the greatest . imo almost ok except the intercept button which i still think should be read so that it would be easily recognizable

 

oh oh and if anyone thinks that the time aint so important and thus the clock at the bottom of the screen is still too big then i do NOT agree. TIME is THE most important thing in THIS game though u maybe dont notice it all the time. EVERYTHING in this game RELIES on TIME and TIMING!!!

Time isn't the most important thing. The geoscope is at least when you're not in a battlescape. Time is important but only parts of it.. The most important part is the actual hours and the Date. The Month is less important and the year is almost not important at all.. I think you want it on two lines on the right side too

 

Time - Day

Month - Year

 

It is a bit distracting the way it is now IMHO.

[gangsta]

Well about the latest, there still to much space wasted at the side which bothers a little whenver I look at it. I still don't like the clock where it is now. It looks like you have two diffrent types of interfaces.

 

Suggested changes.

1) readd the rotate and zoom buttons to the right. I know you can do it with the mouse and all but remeber some people only have one button mice and this kinda redundancy is good.

 

2) Move the time to the right? It is getting too much importance where it is now. The original design was right here I think.

 

3) You have two diffrent types of interfaces.. the one on the top right and the one on the bottom right. You have done a good job at finding how they are diffrent and perhaps it is possible to make the top ones icons.

 

Anyway you got to do something to get rid of that wasted space. it looks ok when you are fully zoomed in like the last pic but that isn't always the case.

[Deimos]

What do you think of this: option between globe or flat world map display?

I've suggested this before as an optional replacement for the geoscope.. perhaps as you suggest those two could be merged into one.. although for a fantasy game you probably would just have a small map of a country or something.

Maybe have it as an option in the menu? Flat panel or globe.

 

It would be pretty cool to have the night view slide across the flat panel. Not sure if you're familiar with an app on the palm called world clock. I have a pic of the globe and the night side shifts across the screen accordingly. Looks very cool.

 

In the pic I've put up above the night portion would track across to show the light level in your current area.

 

Talking of which how difficult would that be to do? Would it just be a case of layering the light earth underneath the dark one and animating an alpha channel to mask out where daytime would be?

[Fatal_Error]

Suggested changes.

1) readd the rotate and zoom buttons to the right.  I know you can do it with the mouse and all but remeber some people only have one button mice and this kinda redundancy is good.

 

2) Move the time to the right?  It is getting too much importance where it is now.  The original design was right here I think.

 

3) You have two diffrent types of interfaces.. the one on the top right and the one on the bottom right.  You have done a good job at finding how they are diffrent and perhaps it is possible to make the top ones icons.

 

Anyway you got to do something to get rid of that wasted space.  it looks ok when you are fully zoomed in like the last pic but that isn't always the case.

before i start altering the layout ill wait for some mo comments

 

meanwhile:

a mean comment to gangsta: do not look at the empty space then!

 

to the points:

1) i dont have anything against this coz afterall we could do a settings ... actually we should do a settings menu for the geoscape layout to change the shortcuts in the top right corner, but id like some suggestions for the design/outlook of those controls coz imho the old ones just dont work with the new layout ... well at least the zoom buttons dont

 

2) i have a new idea remember just an idea. what if i separate the clock and date. put the clock right under the time control panel (the bottom right menu will grow a bit in height) and date to the bottom left corner and make it smaller?

 

3) putting icons there was my original idea but imho it turned out better this way though ive not seen it with icons but icons are much harder to fit into a layout

 

4) i cant fill the empty space on the right and i wont coz it has a purpose. what if a gamer wants a shitload of shortcuts visible on the geoscape instead of only 3. where would u put 'em. but there still should be a limit to shortcuts

[Fatal_Error]

The human mind treats a new idea the way the body treats a

strange protein; it rejects it.

-- Biologist P. B. Medawar

 

no offence ofcooz just a not and slap me if that dude is wrong

[gangsta]

before i start altering the layout ill wait for some mo comments

 

meanwhile:

a mean comment to gangsta: do not look at the empty space then!

 

to the points:

1) i dont have anything against this coz afterall we could do a settings ... actually we should do a settings menu for the geoscape layout to change the shortcuts in the top right corner, but id like some suggestions for the design/outlook of those controls coz imho the old ones just dont work with the new layout ... well at least the zoom buttons dont

 

2) i have a new idea remember just an idea. what if i separate the clock and date. put the clock right under the time control panel (the bottom right menu will grow a bit in height) and date to the bottom left corner and make it smaller?

 

3) putting icons there was my original idea but imho it turned out better this way though ive not seen it with icons but icons are much harder to fit into a layout

 

4) i cant fill the empty space on the right and i wont coz it has a purpose. what if a gamer wants a shitload of shortcuts visible on the geoscape instead of only 3. where would u put 'em. but there still should be a limit to shortcuts

Well you know people have been studying UI for ages and what works and what doesn't is somewhat well defined. GUI was invented by Xerox and they spent alot of money on psychologist and scientist to study how people relate to the interface. Many of us programmers are taught what works and what doesn't.

 

You still have to consider the fact that people will be out there who can't use fancy mouse tricks to zome in and out. For example what if they are using a touch screen instead of a mouse? I still don't like the idea of having the clock there because all I notice is the clock. As for the empty space that is a major nono.. if it distracts me it will distract alot of users and why frustrate users. you can't just tell them not to notice it because the fact that is there makes their subconcious look.

[gangsta]

what that said I like your style. I just think some of the things are GUI nono's

[gangsta]

btw you time idea might work show us how it looks and try a less bright font for the time.