152 replies to this topic

[XXDarrienX]

Once the war is won, the game ends, and then starts over. Player A is -still- a Commander, and still has all his research and manufacturing data, but, like any other Rookie, he must start with the same base, equipment, and limited budget. This gives them an advantage (allowing them to use lasers, etc.) whilst it not being too powerful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's not good to give good players even more advantage. I would prefer something like the original tftd story - after the war is over, all the anti-alien organizations get disbanded and lose all (or probably all technologies) technologies. That's probably a lame explanation, but once we get another invasion, we need to start from scratch

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That idea works to, since ranks can't be that hard to attain and you have to survive to achieve that sort of Rank. But still we could have player stat boards and such that they keep some of their prestige as Alien hunters despite using normal equipment. I know some friends of mine who fight the aliens purely with earth based technology just to make it more difficult. We could also do contests, to achieve x amount of kills to give them some more to compete with.

Edited by XXDarrienX, 12 August 2005 - 12:06 AM.

[Blood Angel]

I still think it would be best not to ever have it ending, just make it a kind of perpetual thing.

At any rate, being the crazy guy I am, I decided to have a crack at making an XCOM subbase. I'm using XBASES1, 4 and 5, Avenger, and Triton.

hehe, I've just done the engine room. Lacks a bit of polish, but it works.

Edit: Changed, due to MCD exceedage/ tile borkage. The new layout is XBASES1,2,5, avenger, lightning. The palette sucks, but maybe that can be changed...

Edited by Blood Angel, 12 August 2005 - 02:17 PM.

[Blood Angel]

I can't believe there's no interest in this...

[Blehm 98]

BOOO!!!
*throws :happybananna:s at the map

[Blood Angel]

OK then...

At any rate, I'm having a problem with the hangar. I'm using the TFTD Xbase Sub-pen layout, but with a fat avenger in the middle. Latest pics of craft attached.

To put it simply, I'm having trouble with the pylons on the first floor around the ramps. Anyone have any idea how to fix it? Or shall I leave it unpolished for now and get on with the rest of the craft?

Edit: Using only PURE NINJA SKILLS, I have fixed my woes. See attachments.

Edited by Blood Angel, 12 August 2005 - 03:09 PM.

[Exo2000]

I already did one with TFTD only tiles.

http://www.xcomufo.c...?showtopic=5669

[Blood Angel]

Gak. Well, we know that the finished game is going to have... um... Avengers! Yes! So yours is useless! (Crosses fingers in vain hope)

Plus, mine's going to be better... yeah...

I think it is, anyway. It's here.

Edited by Blood Angel, 13 August 2005 - 09:44 AM.

[Sectopod]

I'm loving these UFO2k concepts so far.

Taking some of these suggestions, I'm thinking that if you start as Aliens you should get to choose your basic race, Floater, Sectoid, Ethereal, Snakeman, Muton.

Floaters are natural flying units, and are just slightly more expensive than your average Sectoids, but still they are weak though.

Sectoids are your basic greys with big tums. They are dirt cheap and have access to a lot of unarmoured units, but they are technological masters. Yep they get blasted more faster.

Ethereals are VERY expensive, and as such you don't want to lose nearly any of them and you should start with VERY few (Psi powers anyone?)

Snakeman are slightly lower than Mutons but come in more numbers.

Mutons are your strong guys that should come in lesser numbers but still a tough force to be reckoned with.

You start off with a Commander (which is you), and depending on what you have at hand you have:

Sectoids: 15 Grays. Their bonuses give them Technicians and Scientists in one (excluding Soldiers).

Floaters: 10 Floaters. Their bonus is flying, so meh.

Ethereals start with 4. They get Psi so meh.

Snakes get 8. They are your tougher than average Sectoids, but have somewhat higher breeding rate to make up for losses. They are vulnerable to most weapons somewhat.

Mutons get 8. They get some real dish out damage early on and good armour. Weak to Psi though which comes on in later forms.

From seeing Exo's Space Ship, it comes to me that to make the game more enjoyable you have to upgrade it. By making addons to your ship you need resources which come in the form of landing at zones, abducting cattle and such come later but right now you need resources so you must land at sites which have mines, or if you are really ambitious, attack ships which carry the refined goods for you (very risky, with what some Vet X-Com players will know instantly what you are doing).

You start off with 3 Very Small UFO's.
1 Small Scout.

Your funding from the oh holy brain is Elerium, as it can only be found outside the Solar System. As such you must use it wisely.

Research comes in the form of sending Very Small UFO's to do Alien Research. They will travel across the Geoscape looking for their inspiration, or simply knowing what to attack next. It could even be looking for other players to get the data from them telepathically. But in all cases these must be sent to Earth to get data.

After this you can research things which are native to your species. Sectoids could research Cyberdiscs for example. But to do this you need Food, and what better form does this come in as Cattle Abductions and Human Abducting. After this is done you can begin growing creatures native to your species. After the month, your Soldiers/Scientists must be paid in Food. If you don't they die, simple, so it's best to do constant attacks. To prevent this from being a troublesome experience, you need Bases, but well come to that below:

Eventually you upgrade your Commanders, Sectoids, etc and take the fight to X-Com and try to contest countries. Eventually once your ship has grown so much you could touch down as a base. If the base is destroyed you leave as an escape ship (you can't really be wiped out like that can you?). By being an underground base you request Supply Ships which provide all the food you need from Mars. Just make sure to tell your UFO's to be on escort duty and give some reasonable ships to protect it (I.e. don't send 2 Small Scouts that's pathetic against a tooled up Avenger, bring a Battleship). But in being a base you can construct Battleships, Abducters, and any "Very Large" vessels. Your command ship could have been tooled for Terror Duties anyway..

And you can either: 1. Kill all X-Com players or 2. Try to pry Governments from X-Com's grasp. Alternatively there should be a time limit to when you land on the surface with your command ship and get destroyed before you can land again to prevent abuse.

Edited by Chmmr, 18 December 2005 - 04:30 PM.

[Angry Lawyer]

You missed out the TFTD stuff D:

-Angry Lawyer

[Sectopod]

You missed out the TFTD stuff D:

-Angry Lawyer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dang!

Well.. it kinda works in the same way.. except underwater And you get your resources from boats..

Edited by Chmmr, 18 December 2005 - 04:34 PM.

[Angry Lawyer]

A little more ontopic - I really like the idea. I've always been for pitching humans against aliens in a massive environment.

-Angry Lawyer

[Sectopod]

A little more ontopic - I really like the idea.  I've always been for pitching humans against aliens in a massive environment.

-Angry Lawyer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You missed out the TFTD stuff D:

-Angry Lawyer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aquatoids are basically Sectoids, no difference there. Oh yes Hallucenoids are their Cyberdisc versions.. They have more access to units they can build so it seems fair they start off with 12. They get Calcinites for land, Hallucenoids for Water.

Gill Men are slightly just better than Aquatoids, but alas.. no flight, so only 10 for these. They get Xarquids very later on (for water) and Deep Ones (for land).

Tasoths are your better Snakemen/Ethereal crossbreed, 4 here (and Psi, but not as good as Ethereal minds). They get Tenteculats very much later on (water) and Bio Drones (for land).

Lobster Men have 8, being slightly better Mutons. They get Tricenes later on (water and land).

And eh.. there you go! Tftd version

Edited by Chmmr, 18 December 2005 - 04:53 PM.

[Blitzen]

A little more ontopic - I really like the idea.  I've always been for pitching humans against aliens in a massive environment.

-Angry Lawyer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You missed out the TFTD stuff D:

-Angry Lawyer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aquatoids are basically Sectoids, no difference there. Oh yes Hallucenoids are their Cyberdisc versions.. They have more access to units they can build so it seems fair they start off with 12. They get Calcinites for land, Hallucenoids for Water.

Gill Men are slightly just better than Aquatoids, but alas.. no flight, so only 10 for these. They get Xarquids very later on (for water) and Deep Ones (for land).

Tasoths are your better Snakemen/Ethereal crossbreed, 4 here (and Psi, but not as good as Ethereal minds). They get Tenteculats very much later on (water) and Bio Drones (for land).

Lobster Men have 8, being slightly better Mutons. They get Tricenes later on (water and land).

And eh.. there you go! Tftd version

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lobster men are a lot better than mutons.... more armour than the best armour you can wear.

[Sectopod]

Lobster men are a lot better than mutons.... more armour than the best armour you can wear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mutons can command 2 different types of Creature (Silacoid and Celaid) though as opposed to Lobbies which only command Tricenes which are used for land only I think. I've seen them have Bio Drones before, but that is more of the Tasoths IMO.


Evidence that Lobbies use Tricenes..


Loves the Mutons.. eww..


Loves the Mutons.. double eww..

Maybe the Lobstermen should be reduced to 6.. they are super soldiers after all. Tricenes should come very later on in the game.

Edited by Chmmr, 19 December 2005 - 11:08 AM.

[Kratos]

Now loving to see how UFO and TFTD would look together, I have to say there is a problem with this. Let me just bring up that ufo2k has permission to "remake" UFO, NOT TFTD. Where TFTD comes in, mods (maps, units, etc.) are available which are outside resources with limited uses. A possible mod may be in order some day for a TFTD version of the MMO.

And I would like to state to all TFTD fans that all ufo2k issues come before any TFTD mods. Not trying to be offending or anything, but it is just to let you know to not "push" the matter on our programmers.

[Gurluas2000]

Lobster men are a lot better than mutons.... more armour than the best armour you can wear.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mutons can command 2 different types of Creature (Silacoid and Celaid) though as opposed to Lobbies which only command Tricenes which are used for land only I think. I've seen them have Bio Drones before, but that is more of the Tasoths IMO.


Evidence that Lobbies use Tricenes..


Loves the Mutons.. eww..


Loves the Mutons.. double eww..

Maybe the Lobstermen should be reduced to 6.. they are super soldiers after all. Tricenes should come very later on in the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the tftd terror units are not specially arranged...
the Bio Drone,Tentaculat and Triscene are shared between Tasoths and Lobstermens.

and i think the mmo should have both games...
that would make the game much much better...fighthing both on land and underwater.

oh and i nearly forgot...the calcinite has psi too.

Edited by Gurluas2000, 22 December 2005 - 07:30 AM.

[Prowler2885]

You know, I heard that Lobstermen taste pretty good with some hot butter.

All you need with them is an adamantium claw breaker. (Idea for TFTD weapon add-on when in production) Works excellent against Lobstermen and Chryssalids.


Sorry about that; I just had to toss it in since Lobstermen were mentioned.

Edited by Prowler2885, 23 December 2005 - 12:14 PM.

[Exo2000]

That joke about lobstermen and hot butter has already been made.

But do they scream when you boil them?

[Blood Angel]

But do they scream when you boil them?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Only when the water is heated by Gauss.

[Gurluas2000]

xarquid sushi and cooked lobsterman...gimme:P

[Super Vegeta]

Hello everybody, my first post.

My few ideas:
- Linking First Alien War with the Second Alien War
a)The easiest solution - two servers, on first we play FAW, on second - SAW. Or, simply, when the FAW agem on the server will end, the game switches into SAW, etc.

b)Having both wars in the same time could be interesting too, but here's something to think about: Would the players have to choose between "Land X-Com" and "Underwater X-Com", and what would happen to the land forces when Cydonia is destroyed but T'leth remains, and what would happen to underwater forces then T'leth is destroyed earlier than Cyd. Eventually, it could be like that one player can build both land and undersea bases.

c)If there would be both wars in the same time, we of course have to discuss weaponry. The easiest solution, when the X-Com would be divided into land and underwater forces, would be to just don't allow land forces to use underwater technologies and in the other way. Or, If it would be like that the same player can have both land and underwater bases, I think that it should be:
- Pistols, Rifles etc.
Well, most of those weapons will not fire underwater at all. And, according to that the water resistance is over 40 time sbigger than the air resistance, prodably the weapon's range would be no bigger than 5, maybe 10 meters.
- Laser
I think that this technology should work both on land and water, but maybe it would slightly lose power with the depth. (Deeper = more dark = more light 'absorbed')
- Plasma, stun rod
As plasma is a huge cloud of ions, it won't work under water due to the fact that the H2O is a dipol (so it prodably would rduce the weapon's power to almost zero) and, second task, if it's a huge cloud of ions, firing it underwater would be such a bad idea as using electrical stun rod under water - instant death.
- Gauss
Gauss weaponry works on accelerating bulets by a strong magnetic field, so it will work both and water and on land, bah, I think, that on land it would be ven more powerful - according the the water resistance and air resistance.
- Sonic
This is kinda weird thing, but I think that it should work both underwater and on land.
- Explosives, rocket and blaster launchers
Most of conventional explosives will not work under water, because they require oxygenium to blow, which they mostly take from the air. Phosporus explosives on land will prodably work only in polar areas (everybody had chemistry, this thing reacts with water). Alien explosives may work both on land and in water, because they use elerium, so it's most prodably that the grenade is a one-use elerium reactor, creating a small anti-matter implosion.
- Small Launcher, Thermal Shok Launcher
In the game it isn't written, how does it work, so we can only speculate. If someone thinks that it should be like that the SL works only on land and TSL work only underwater - ok, why not?
- Dart guns etc.
It's similiar to rifles, so if it works underwater, gimme a reason why it would not work on land. I think that the gas cannon is the only thing that... well, it'll prodably work on land, but It will be totally unuseful.

- Playing aliens
Well, it could be a nice thing, but in my opinion maybe it would be better to firstly create a you-can-play-only-with-humans game, and then try to upgrade it.

- Funding
Like someone said, I think it could be like that one player works in a selected world region, protects the countries in that region, and gets funding from them. The player could be a private or a public 'agency' (?), so this would eliminate the problem of "Why US would need 100 protectors". And by the way - you know what they say, "Competition raises quality".

I think that's all. :P

PS.Sorry, if my english isn't the best.

Edited by Super Vegeta, 11 April 2006 - 02:19 AM.

[the_unfrgiven]

Hello everybody, my first post.

- Sonic
This is kinda weird thing, but I think that it should work both underwater and on land.
-

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anyone doubting the fuctionality of sonic weapons underwater, check this out
http://en.wikipedia....r_pistol_shrimp

[Brick-To-Face]

Hi everyone, I'm not too active on UFO2000 forums, but I LOVE the game.

I had read this thread before. Just now I had a really great idea, not a broad idea about how the whole game would work, but just something that you might like to work into this great plan:

I think player should be able to define their own UFOs, with some preset rules of course. Resources would be of the essence here, each wall/floor/ceiling costing you alloys, each engine used to lift those alloys costing you E-115. Going off on a tangent...

Smithers: Mr burns, you beter take a whiff from your ether bottle.
Burns: Man that's good E.

Coming back...
Anyway, I think this would be quite cool, since newbies would have the advantage of unique ufo design, and the more battles a UFO wins, the more ready the next challenger will be, knowing the floor plans and all. I dunno, it's just an idea, but I think it's kickass.

[Emu]

Hello all.
Did this project died? No new posts latelly.
I'm interested in helpin, but no programmings skills ;(

[Jezulkim]

This project is still alive, like I said earlier when we were playing .
Btw, anyone noticed that the forum has been really slow?

[Brick-To-Face]

Sorry, I had another idea... What if every player owns a planet? Humans can have an "earth-like" planet and aliens a "mars-like" planet. You can't own multiple planets, but you can conquer them, leave a flag or something... I dunno, just an idea.

[Sinofdamnation]

Sorry, I had another idea... What if every player owns a planet? Humans can have an "earth-like" planet and aliens a "mars-like" planet. You can't own multiple planets, but you can conquer them, leave a flag or something... I dunno, just an idea.

I think that your suggestion is pretty good actually. Only that there is not planet for everyone, only like 20-30 for each sides(depends on the amount of the players).
The player can choose his first base location from any of the planets that are controlled by his race(x-com/aliens) But if he wants another base, then he must send a colony ship or something there (you could build a base to enemy planets, but...well, that is veeeery risky)

So, what do you think?

[Brick-To-Face]

Yeah, sounds ok, by the way, is the geoscape going to be permanently set to 1 second? Not that it's bad or anything...

[shanu]

One of the majour problems with expanding the online game so much is that it all of a sudden makes playing online xcom much more of a commitment. Intead of logging online for half an hour or so for a quick game, you must now put a heck of a lot of time into playing the game.

And this fact will of course discourage the players who are only interested in having a quick game. Lets face it, Xcom online needs all the players it can get, as the server is pretty sparse to say the least. So heres my idea.

Make two options of play..
Either quick battle, (basically as it is now) or the more expanded version with geoscape. But the person who chooses quick battle then goes onto battle a person who chose expanded version. How?.. Ill explain. The 'quick battle guy' becomes an incoming ship, or a terror site or whatever for the other player who has a base etcetera. They battle it out. Someone wins or loses. The quick battle player then leaves, whilst the other player keeps playing in geoscape. And waits for another "quick player guy/incoming alien' to attack. If there is none, then perhaps battles can be fought between the 'geoscape guys' for some objective.

Obviously some players are going to be good while others are not (for example, someone called 'anomonous'), this kind of fits in with the original game where sometimes you battled tiny spaceships with only a few men and just walk thru it, but other times it was more challenging.


Anyway, this way you dont lose the players who dont WANT a geoscape etc, and you dont lose the players who get tired of just single battles.


my two cents

[brian-o]

One of the majour problems with expanding the online game so much is that it all of a sudden makes playing online xcom much more of a commitment. Intead of logging online for half an hour or so for a quick game, you must now put a heck of a lot of time into playing the game.

And this fact will of course discourage the players who are only interested in having a quick game. Lets face it, Xcom online needs all the players it can get, as the server is pretty sparse to say the least. So heres my idea.

Make two options of play..
Either quick battle, (basically as it is now) or the more expanded version with geoscape. But the person who chooses quick battle then goes onto battle a person who chose expanded version. How?.. Ill explain. The 'quick battle guy' becomes an incoming ship, or a terror site or whatever for the other player who has a base etcetera. They battle it out. Someone wins or loses. The quick battle player then leaves, whilst the other player keeps playing in geoscape. And waits for another "quick player guy/incoming alien' to attack. If there is none, then perhaps battles can be fought between the 'geoscape guys' for some objective.

Obviously some players are going to be good while others are not (for example, someone called 'anomonous'), this kind of fits in with the original game where sometimes you battled tiny spaceships with only a few men and just walk thru it, but other times it was more challenging.


Anyway, this way you dont lose the players who dont WANT a geoscape etc, and you dont lose the players who get tired of just single battles.


my two cents

would the incoming quick battle players choose their weapons/soldiers based on a point system, or would they have to choose from a limited selection of pre-armed/pre-manned UFO's? the reason I ask is because it might be odd if someone could pick every aspect of their attacking ship, (a human base gets attacked by an alien ufo holding only humans , or if they were attacked by a ship filled with a wide mix of aliens, humans, zombies, civilians etc.. )

[Brick-To-Face]

Ok, I had a little bit of a different idea, that was born from this thought process:
1. Currently there are very few people playing ufo2000.
2. Most everyone is content with the current game.
3. Geoscape should start out simple, then get features added slowly.
4. There is a currently working test-geoscape in the beta versions.
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10 Heh...
10. Start simple. No crazy accounts or big bases. Two players invite each other to "Test geoscape game". They select game "type", which consists of the ufo, species, and how many points the humans get (variable points will allow server admins to find the most balanced number of points for each ufo and species, ie. 10,000 points versus sectoid large scout won 7/9 times, 5,000 points versus sectoid large scout lost 13/13 times, the best number of points against a sectoid large scout must be somewhere between 10,000 and 5,000).
OK, after selecting the game "type" variables, the game begins. In geoscape everybody sees everybody, no radars, very simple base view, crafts, soldiers, buy and sell (transactions are instant for now). Alien player can control his ships, or manage his base. Human player buys and sells stuff, including craft. Any craft for that matter. Basically, for now they chat to set ground rules:
"Ok, I'm going to start a terror site in Tajikistan, head there now so we can play in the daytime."
"Ok, wait, I gotta buy some stuff"
...
"You there?"
"yea, hold on"
...
"Ok, done, intercepting towards Tajikistan"
"Ok, this is gonna take like 2 minutes at this speed"
"brb, ice cream"
"yeah, beef jerky here"
...
"ok, ready?"
"yea"
... etc ...
Now they have a fight just like in the old X-Com, meaning random map, random positions, random everything. The only suggestion I have is that the human craft have indestructible walls and doors at the entrance that can't be opened by aliens, so no stupid one-grenade-into-the-craft-10-kills.
Through only a few simple menus a simple geoscape can be achieved, again for single missions, but more like X-Com. This would be a great start rather than the crazy stuff discussed in this topic.

Edit: Oh! And reply to my ufo-designing idea!

Edited by Brick-To-Face, 31 July 2006 - 08:24 PM.

[killerdeath]

is anyone here still alive or do you not like to post here? .it would be a nice idea for the beta Brick-To_Face and is proboly easy to do. i dont know much about programing but is sounds prity easy to do. i advise a limited amout of people in at once for testing issues tho. You dont want the possiblity of 100 people on at once or it could be hard to manage i would like to help but i need to learn how to program badly

Edited by killerdeath, 31 December 2006 - 09:41 AM.

[JFarceur]

Hey there, I recently had an idea about multiplayer ufo. I thought this thread could do the job.

EDIT : While "Brick-to-face" method seems rather simple, it involves creating the geoscape and creating the ships and everything Ufo2000 doesnt much have for now. I may have a simpler method. Now is to see if it's good in any way.

What I've been recently thinking, is having all humans playing together.

Well, the concept would be : if there is 10 human soldiers in a craft, and 10 players online, each player gets to have 1 soldier to play.

How would it work ?

* Each player would own his own soldiers, paid as mercenaries. When you log on, Xcom temporarily hires your soldiers to fight the alien threat. All the XCOM management would not be available to the players.
* Your soldiers are forced to give every alien artefact back to Xcom, the player is paid a % of the artifacts found, plus a bonus for each alien killed by his soldiers.
* The management available for the player would be to buy weapons either from human countries, or advanced weapons from Xcom. In order to get advanced material from xcom, the player would need to win a number of battles, and invest in the research.
* Xcom could offer jobs for multiple difficulties (easy : fight against very small or small ships, hard : attack an alien base). Beginners would only get to fight in easy jobs, then medium, then hard ones, until they can finally raid on Mars. There is more money to get in harder missions, but there's higher risks too!
* Players will be strongly penalized if XCOM looses a ship, or if a player shoots down a soldier from another player (forced to pay money to xcom, and restrict access to new technology)
* New players would start with about the same thing as in ufo. 8 soldiers, and various weapons, and bit of money.
* If you fail on too much missions, or ran out of money, you loose your company (XCOM doesnt trust you anymore). You can, however, start a new group (account) at any time, with 8 new recruits.

For aliens

* There would be NO alien player. In fact, players would play only human. But, players would be required to play aliens once in a while. Each time a player plays alien, his organisation gets more funding.
* Aliens would always be at severe disadvantage on easy human missions, while a player would play ethereals on very hard human mission
* Each time two players are logged on the server, the one with the best organisation would play the alien so that the other player can improve his team.
* If there is more than two players online, each player gets to choose on which side he plays. If two players have a very low ranking versus a player with a high ranking, the two players should play together against the better player, who'd be an alien.
* New rule : alien grenades cannot be primed to 0. Even if a grenade is thrown in the skyranger, soldiers always have time to throw it out, or run away from it.

What it involves

*No geoscape needed.
*No base management, only team management, and getting reputation from XCOM in many ways.
*Only missions, and a ranking page. (Player name, number of soldiers, highest soldier rank, total army value (points), total weapons value (money), number of bases destroyed, number of attacks on mars)

=============
For those who would like to play aliens, here are fast alternates ideas

for the alien side, (maybe)

* A player chooses one race. Players need to gain reputation from Cydonia by successfully achieve missions.
* Alien players would need to hire pilots in order to fly ships, and would need a number of aliens of specific ranks in order to achieve some missions.
* Easy missions would be to send scout ships here and there, without being spotted. When a ship is being followed by a human ship, he could have the choice between aborting the mission and leaving the area, or try to finish the mission then leave.
* The harder missions for aliens are to build a base on earth and attack an xcom base.
* They'd also have a form of money that allows them to recruit new aliens, build new ships, buy new weapons...

how could it work ? without AI, it would be like that, i suppose...

*players could have one account for each type available (1 human, 1 alien)
* When a player logs on with an account, he submits his organisation either for easy, medium or hard missions.
* if two opposing players are submitting for a mission of the same difficulty, they are confronting each other.
* When a player logs on, he sees first how many human/alien players are online, and where they submitted for missions, so he can choose his opposing account in order to get into a fight.

Edited by JFarceur, 12 January 2007 - 08:23 PM.

[Stubbs]

Is, perhaps, the entire game community going to play using the same geoscape? I think that would be the way to go. The Aliens going for the humans' throats, the humans fighting against a seemingly invincible onslaught--man, that would totally rock. Especially if every player could contribute to the "game."

This guy has the right idea. I recently came up an idea for a game that I wanted to exist so badly because it was such a good one. I only found UFO 2000 because I did a quick search to see if anybody had made the idea I had already (and I intend to start playing UFO 2000 today because it does look good).

*Essay warning*

My idea is essentially a fusion of XCOM and Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates...don't laugh, this may sound farcical, but I assure you parrots do not come into the equation. Anybody who has played Puzzle Pirates will understand what I am about to say... if you haven't, it will be a bit more difficult. PP is a MMO game that is passably fun, I played it with friends last summer. The aim, if there is one, is to become a feared pirate with your own crew and other things like your own shops or even your own island. The main aspect of the game is"pillaging" - you join a crew, either an arbitrary one to get the wages or your own crew if they are online, sailing the seas and fighting other ships. Your ship's performance is based on the work of the players on it who are playing a number of different puzzle minigames - these will not be part of the XCOM MM game I have in mind.

PP is very popular and I am sure 3 Rings Entertainment are raking it in. However, it is, after a while, an incredibly tedious game. I think this is due to the minigames becoming chores rapidly. If the "minigame" was in fact XCOM style battling, which everybody loves, then there would be no chore... the "grinding" would be the most fun part.

The PP world (ok, Ocean) is divided up into islands... you could perhaps divide the geoscape into tenable base locations in a similar fashion. The MM XCOM game would work thusly: you play as one soldier. Yes, just one, that you name and customize all you want. You would then go to the equivalent of PP's "Noticeboard" where you would find a "crew" that needed help or go to a tab and find your own crew/alliance/guild, whatever you want to call them. You are then warped to their base, or the Skyranger if they are heading for a crash site or whatever. With a high time speed, you'd get to your location pretty fast - use this time to equip yourself and chat to your team. Equipping is best done on a personal basis - you buy your equipment from any shop. Otherwise you are given some free worthless weapon, like a pistol and a 2 spare clips. Pretty soon you could buy yourself better weapons with your earnings.

Ok, now you land... terrain is randomly generated as usual, you ... probably want to be able to put your soldier wherever you want rather than having skyrangers around the place... so basically now it is the same as UFO 2000 (once AI is added in anyway)... the only difference is that you control one soldier each. So, each player moves their soldier and does whatever, then the other team. You're no doubt thinking "they will not act as a team" - but they WILL listen to the higher ups or will be in trouble. By playing (or perhaps PAYING, but I won't go down that route) you can be promoted - you'd have to buy the right to be a certain rank from the governments ("badges" in PP). Then the leader of the crew/team/squad can promote you to that higher rank if he or she wishes. Higher ranks would give privileges like being able to take the Skyranger out or authorise Interceptor launches.

Anyway, at the end of a mission, assuming success, the highest ranking member of the crew shares out the payment. You'd also get weaponry and elerium, but these are kept by the crew owner and are only sellable once you manage to get them back to a base (the higher ranks have hold access and can sell the items, remove the cash and take it for themselves). You get money since you are paid by the world governments for mission success (based on mission score of course). This is then divided according to the policy of the crew (exactly like PP does it) - some crews will split the money evenly, others will give more shares the higher a soldier's rank is. What can always be done is to assign bonus shares to a soldier who performed particularly well or less shares to a soldier who messed around or disobeyed orders. Note that players who get booted out of the crew (by the highest rank member there) will get nothing. This gives a real incentive to play as part of a team. You can work your way up in a crew, gain trust, be promoted, being given more responsibilities. You also have the option of merely working freelance for any crew you want to gain wealth.

PvP is perfectly possible as well - send an Interceptor to attack an enemy Skyranger, or an enemy Interceptor so you get to shoot down the UFO personally and get the credit for it. If you got attacked you would be forced to land after taking a certain amount of damage and stay on the ground until repairs were complete. This would allow an enemy Skyranger to come and land on you as a crash site. Note that PP does not allow picking on weak crews - if you fight significantly weaker opponents there is a good chance that an invincible Ghost Ship comes along and utterly destroys you - so in this, if you fight weak opponents unfairly, the chance of an strong alien invasion of your base goes way up Note that you can't attack other ships if they have recently been in a fight... you get a grace period to get the heck out of there.

Fighting fair PvP fights would allow you to steal their spare equipment and fly home to sell it. Note that there would be a real economy going on - weapons get destroyed in battles but produced by the "brigands" - eg the aliens. If there's a shortage of Heavy Plasma, anybody selling them can get a good price. You would also be able to produce weapons by owning a workshop (note: this does not have to be in your own crew's base since you may not have a crew. It is also not thievable in any way). You would have to buy in elerium and alien alloys from other player's stores to make weapons, ammunition and armor, on which you make a reasonable profit. Note that buying a workshop would be expensive and you'd have to really work for it (you also pay rent on it - to the base owner would be a nice system). In the same way, renting interceptors and buying ammunition for them is not cheap and you'd have to pay a lot of rent for your bases depending on their size. These are things to strive to achieve - your own base, with your own ships. Note that anything to do with buying and sustaining bases would be paid to the non-XCOM world... in PP this is called a "piece of eight sink" - eg it destroys money; removes it from the game economy. This prevents inflation, since money is constantly flowing into the system from what the governments pay for successful missions.

I have no idea how many people play UFO 2000, but this game would start small. Unfortunately you need to start with some people being rich and already owning their own base - e.g. the developers. There also need to be a couple of shops set up, with owners. A major problem would be balancing the supply of materials - don't give heavy plasma weapons out willy-nilly like the original XCOM: UFO Defense did. Things need to have the correct amount of scarcity and the correct life spans (perhaps make weapons break eventually).

Note that the game is perpetual, although the world can expand considerably. There is no final objective. You can dip into the game for some quick fun or you can work your donkey off and achieve the glory of your own base. A nice level-up system would also make it very addictive. I'm aware it's a fair bit of work to make such a game, but if you are already going to make a real-time geoscape massively multiplayer game, I really think this is the best way to do it. Just make sure you avoid the wrath of 3 Rings if you decide to try to make money out of it at any point...

[JFarceur]

Hey Stubbs,

Nice ideas in there. I like the idea of one soldier each.

Questions :

-What happens if you're attacked while offline? Is it possible?
-Will aliens be controlled by players (not sure)?

[Stubbs]

Hey Stubbs,

Nice ideas in there. I like the idea of one soldier each.

Questions :

-What happens if you're attacked while offline? Is it possible?
-Will aliens be controlled by players (not sure)?

Aliens are AI goons who exist to be killed and robbed. There is no way to stop them, they appear no matter how beaten they are getting. Their frequency, numbers, range of skill (stats) and so forth would be set by the admins and would change as the server gained more players. They have no planet, and any bases they have are basically bonuses to be sought out by the players. Aliens occasionally attack your ships if you are nearby, and I suppose would occasionally launch base raids. They would still terrorise cities - the first team to get to the city would get the cash for dealing with it. Note that while any battling is going on, nobody else can join in - not even crewmembers who came online. Alien bases would not be bases in the sense of launching missions, but like Terror Sites they could be a great haul for the person to locate and get to them first (in this case the spoils would mainly consist of elerium, alien alloys, heavy plasmas etc) - as long as they could get back home without being shot down and mugged. On the map, the alien bases should certainly be hidden from other factions unless they patrol for them and find them legitimately. In fact, I think all crash sites, UFO landing sites UFOs or whatever else should only be visible if your crew's base radar or ship radar can detect them. To see UFOs across the globe, people would need to buy outpost bases with just radar dishes (much cheaper than a full base with hanagars and workshops, and could be expanded later). XCOM ships of all factions should be visible always, since this would encourage more PvP fighting. And a random thought, each week of real time, the government's ratings for every crew/squad/team or whatever they are called should be shown to everybody (although note: funding is per mission only, paid at the time of earning them, and personal money is not lootable in any way).

As for the first point you raised...
Puzzle Pirates has a system where blockades - island takeovers - must be arranged days in advance and can only be held on weekends. You could do things this way but I personally don't like the idea of a faction becoming too strong. In fact I think it would be nicer if you couldn't wipe people's bases out or take them... after all, you purchase them with your funds, and they (apart from your soldier stats) are everything you have worked towards. I think there would be enough PvP with the shooting down of Skyrangers and other Interceptors without bringing bases into it. And of course, Skyrangers cannot be attacked with their crew offline.

Alien attacks on your bases would still happen, I am sure everybody wants to defend a base from attack... it's just that the attackers cannot really steal much - people have their own, unlootable stores. Aliens would appear in numbers that are at least technically possible to defeat with the crew currently in the base, although difficulty would probably depend on the ranking of the target crew (i.e. generous to poorly performing crews). Losing the fight would probably entail a multitude of bad things like destruction of a set amount of fuel and ammo in the hangars, restarting all items in production at workshops in the base, damaging any craft docked, reducing radar efficiency for a day afterwards... just generally wreaking havoc. Beating the aliens sends alien equipment into the General Stores (i.e. base owner's store). There would be money for winning as well (why? Simulate the sale of mind probes, corpses and whatnot) that gets shared out between participants of the base defense. This will be more than they would earn from a normal mission.
So... you cannot attack people if they are offline, nor can you be attacked. However, any number of players can be forced to defend a base without the support of many of their crew.






I have a fairly large number of other, random ideas that I just need to write down...


- I never said, but stores are automatic once set up in Puzzle Pirates (although confusingly laid out). Basically you set buy and sell prices for each resource (generally after looking at what everybody else is charging at the Market screen) and how many of each your stall should buy until it has, and how many it should keep back and not sell on. Stores then trade automatically whenever somebody's buy price = somebody else's sell price.

- Skyrangers left empty (everyone goes offline) carry on as normal back to base but anybody downing it and attacking will instantly win.

- Ships should auto-repair slowly unless money is spent to speed it up, at which point repairing is very quick. The % damage at which this occurs automatically, and to what extent (funds from the hangar's built in store), can be set by the owner.

- Rather than having monthly rental costs for the Earth-tech craft, hangar owners should pay for the fuel (albeit cheaply) and of course ammunition. UFO-type craft would use elerium (and elerium to refuel their weapons, even if this didn't happen in XCOM). Remember elerium is limited, but tradeable, so anybody with a glut gets rich and other people can use their riches to buy it in for finer craft. Note that elerium being spent on fuel and ammo rounds is a (inflation-decreasing) money-sink since wealth gets destroyed.

- Laser weapons should have limited (255) rounds, otherwise that player is not sinking any money out of the economy - everybody else has to pay for ammunition. Recharge at base at a fixed, low but unavoidable cost.

- Custom weapons that you could order at somebody's shop - eg a slightly faster-firing laser rifle. This simply adds to the resources it takes to make a weapon (alloys/elerium) - and hence to the price. I'm thinking Deus Ex style things here... faster reload time, higher accuracy, less TU% per shot, greater damage. Choosing 2 or more upgrades increases the price much more than twice as much as one does... to the extent where having a weapon with improved specs in every department is unaffordable to all but the richest. Note 1: all the weapon upgrades should be of equal value. Note 2: you would still use same sprite, but the weapon would have different stats.

- Armour should definitely wear out with hits. Since the game already calculates armour damage, merely take the total damage and multiply it by the armour type - repairing a "T-Shirt" is free, repairing personal armour is cheap, repairing power suits is expensive, repairing a flying suit even more so. Repair could be done at any workshop that had the materials (alloys for personal, alloys and elerium if power suit and maybe double elerium for flying suit).

- Workshops have a fixed number of man hours available per day. Having 2 workshops in one base doubles the man-hours available per day, etc

- The base owner gives planning permission by way of creating... well, essentially the outline of a base (like how it looks when you plan a construction in XCOM). Other players then pay a startup cost (this money is sunk) and then pay rent to the owner of the base on a daily basis (if they don't pay for say, a week, the base owner claims the facility. They can give it to who they want to get rent again, or keep it for themselves). Obviously the base owner can just go ahead and build on any square he likes for the same startup cost. Buying a workshop is the most obvious and easily understandable way to make cash.

- However, hangars would make money as well - while you would have to pay considerable sums to buy ships, they would be permanent investments (they do not get destroyed, only damaged). Interceptors would get money from shooting down UFOs (not other human craft) and hence make profits (spamming too many avalanch missiles would = less profit). Skyrangers would bring back spoils from missions (if successful) that are transferred into the hangar store for selling. You'd probably make interceptors cheaper but less profitable since a base tends to need more of them.

- Radar stations could also be an investment. Basically, you'd get a small amount of money from the government for each detection and give a percentage to the base owner. The number of radar stations in a base would be capped so that they could not become unprofitable. (Also, making them less efficient would mean more were required). Hyperwave decoders would not be in the game.. if they were, they would only be upgraded versions of large radar systems (more range and, of course, detailed information). You could upgrade to the next tier of radar simply by paying a fixed amount.

- Note that the ability to sell the rights to a facility means that people will always buy an existing one if it is available, limiting expansion of bases to what is actually required for the current number of players (e.g. too much supply, not enough demand = no new facilities built). PP did not allow deeds transfer, but in their case "stalls" took up no space at all (Don't ask how).

Well, that was more of an essay than I intended. The way Yohoho! Puzzle Pirates works is just so compatible with XCOM that I can get carried away converting it over. I just hope that people (mainly the developers) see how awesome doing the game this way would be. If I was some master coder I'd damn well make this game myself because it would just work so well (not that I am saying it would be remotely easy).
I can but dream...

[Patrick1994]

Hmm, not bad. Fairly even I'd say. I like the "only picking one race" idea, that would certainly make it more even for humans. Coz they'd only have to face one race at a time, they might get lucky and get Sectoids. Of course, the number of players willing to play the bug-eyed freaks would be pretty low, apart from the good Psy stats.

I'd probably be either Muton or Ethereal. Mwhaha.

Im all Snakman and Chrysillad

[Raptor29]

Floaters all the way with the ability of Flight, and those evil dogg like dinosaur like things

[JFarceur]

If we'd get to have our own ships, I'd go with "Snakes on a plane" (with Chryssalids)

[Brick-To-Face]

I'm sorry, but I must put myself against this idea. 1 person per unit just won't work. The "watching time" to "action time" ratio would be immense, even though it's somewhat exciting to watch your teammates and chat about good/bad moves and luck. Also, the user base we have is tiny, there are almost never more than ten people online. Also, people disconnect, A LOT. I just don't see it happening.

On the other hand, why doesn't anyone like my make-your-own-ship idea? I think it would REALLY be AWESOME.

Basically, you design your own UFO (humans will just have to adapt, or have lightning-like UFOs) or use one of the models from the original game. Obviously each UFO would have walls to add inner space and armor, navigation to increase maneuverability, fuel efficiency, and enable higher speeds. Power sources increase... power, this can lift a bigger ship, more equipment or crew, and at higher speeds so long as there is sufficient navigation to allow this. Guns will be guns, nothing special here, the ship with the most firepower and armor wins an air fight. Maybe radar?

The first challenge is the UFO combat system, I have a few ideas for a simple system, but I'm sure something cool can be invented here. Any ideas?

UFOs can fly around, buy human supplies (guns, lasers, humans, armor) from X-Com bases, buy alien supplies (plasma stuff, Elerium, aliens) from alien bases, and of course, engage with other UFOs or go in/out of orbit. Guns don't work in space period, this allows weak UFOs to avoid an unfair fight. Also radar doesn't work in space, so those victims can relocate without fear of pursuit. In the case of an unbalanced fight, the victim will be badly damaged, and have little of value to collect.

There are many things to sort out, but I think this is a really cool game mode. Especially designing your own ships, I think that adds a lot to the game. Doesn't anyone agree?

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

You Could just make it one unit per person and have it Real time D:
Apoc > The other two

[Sinofdamnation]

Or maybe an FPS?

The problem with game like this is that the AI needs to be awesome, but still not too tough for new players (Maybe something based on games/wins/loses ratio?). So that I wont lose all my bases when I'm sleeping.

I also disagree with whoever said that aliens should be AI only, but I think it could be a start...

[Sporb]

if anyone is interested, ive started making some new alien races along with their own storylines and gunnage. Its not much but its a start to a little massiveness i guess

Edited by Sporb, 16 April 2007 - 08:35 AM.

[Jamaru]

if anyone is interested, ive started making some new alien races along with their own storylines and gunnage. Its not much but its a start to a little massiveness i guess

I can't wait to see them, post them and their storylines when your done. More variety of alien species the better.

Edited by Plasma, 18 April 2007 - 04:12 PM.

[fudgedragon]

As a new poster here (I've had the account a while but this is the first time I have posted, I think) the first thing I'd like to state is that I'm a great fan of the idea of x-com. I regret to say I have never played UFO: Defence or Terror From the deep as my only experience with X-Com is Apocalypse. Being a fan of turn based I'm looking forward to this project.

Reading though this thread I have had some ideas of my own about how this could work. I'll start with my Idea of X-COM and then have a further think about how the aliens could work.

My idea is that instead of each player being a separate faction they are each rival teams of agents. The X-COM organization is ran on a democratic system evolving all players.

Please forgive the wall of text


first salaries. I think x-com teams should be allowed to fight each other over missions and tech, each team has an individual score that determines how well its doing compared to its rivals.
Each time the governments pay the X-COM origination 10% should automatically go into a new base fund and 65% should be split evenly and allocated out between players. Then the players individual score is divided by the sum of the total score and multiplied by 100 (to give a percentage). Each teams then gets their percentage or the remaining 25% as a bonus.

Next. X-COM Bases. The X-COM team should have a joint fund that all players can add to (but not take from). This is the fund into which the 10% payment goes into. When this fund has enough in it for a new base anyone on the X-COM team can place a base plan down on the map in both land or water. Once placed all X-com players have 12 (real) hours to vote on the base location. If a significant majority in favor is reached the base is immediately approved and the opposite for if its votes against it get sizable. If after 12 hours no majority has been reached the base is approved or denied based on the highest number of votes. If the base is denied the money for the base is placed back in the fund and any player can choose a new location and try again.

Base facilities should work a similar way, also drawing a set amount from the base fund. Rather than providing an absolute number of slots they should offer a certain amount of service for each player, for example one craft per player per hanger. Research and engineering facilities should probably automatically hire staff to man them to ease micromanaging.

Research Players should each vote on what research they want done, and the scientists should be allocated based on what the players have voted on. for example half the scientists at a base on the most popular research and a quarter each on the second and third favorites.

Hiring and Buying. Each player should have a certain share of the base storage capacity and accommodation. Which they can use to hire, train, and buy equipment and craft using their personal salary. The number of new agents available should be based on X-COMs total performance (and the agents available should be different for each player to stop one player buying up all the agents).

Manufacturing. Once the necessary team research is done any player can use the manufacturing facilities to produce gear for himself.

Player Bases. each player should have a crawler, an amphibious, unatackable mobile base with limited storage capacity, say two craft (Subs or Aircraft, players choice), accommodation and training facilities for 12 agents (one skyranger's worth with 50% reserve) along with limited storage facilities. These should be able to be moved around the map as a mobile base, requiring returns to an X-COM facility to have manufacturing done or to rotate agents and craft out with those left in base. Possibly prevent the large vehicles from being mounted in the crawler.

If another player joins half way through a round they should start with the basic equipment but with 3x the current standard (without the bonus) player salary and access to the Organizations current tech

To further work this a comparison between turn based round and geoscape realtime would have to be developed, with a turn time limit to prevent the realtime game being slowed down by the Turn based combat.

Missions, Missions should be able to be launched against active enemy units (terror sites and likewise as well as x from both the Crawler or units stationed at main X-COM bases.
If a mission is going on it should be flagged up on the geoscape view and if anther player can reach it in time, they can either decide to assist the Other X-COM team (and spit the credit for the mission 50-50) Or engage them as well for the chance to take all the credit. Shooting down of fellow X-COM craft is prohibited though. Other players should always be given the option of backing away gracefully if another player shows up with the intention of doing this.

To aid X-COM research (as it is driven by the aliens) their should be an AI alien player on both alien teams which sometimes raids to aid in X-COM acquiring alien technology.

Base Assaults if a base is assaulted (either human or alien) the forces attacking it should then be present in the air for one hour surrounding the base, this gives time for either active players to try to shoot them down or reinforce the base. or other active players to join the assault. Then the teams spend three hours on the ground (at this point it might be an idea to email or PM all inactive players warning them that in three hours the base could be lost), during which the other team may run ground missions against them (the base cannot be reinforced now, its in lock down). After this the attacking team breaches the base and battles some AI defenders (very little challenge but could be enough if the teams were heavily weakened during the earlier assaults) along with any player controlled forces stationed at the base. (either AI controlled if the players are inactive or under player control if they're there). If these are defeated the base is destroyed.

Winning or Losing. The X-COM team win if it can successfully compete both final missions.
It loses if all main bases are lost to the aliens. In this case the alien team with the highest total score wins.


Final missions. These need to be handled differently to normal single player versions.

Once the necessary research has been done to attack a city, both teams involved (X-COM and the alien who's final research has been completed) are informed of its completion. Each X-COM player is now given 24 hours to equip 2 agents however they want and transfer them to the base containing the main transport built (or Chosen in the case of a Leviathan for T'Leth) After this 24 hours the X-COM team can between them launch the mission at any time (say if 70% of the team are ready for the mission) giving the option to delay until more players are ready, but at the cost of letting the aliens prepare.

The alien players will by then have had time to allocate units to the defense of their home world/city. for T'Leth 25% of the allocated units fight in the first battle. 25% in the second and 50% for a final ditch defense. When X-COM decides to attack the other team has 24 hours until it arrives. Any players online when the enemy attacks command their own forces, if they are offline an AI does it for them.
If X-COM succeeds that alien team is knocked from the game, and all alien players are transfered to the Other alien team.

If either both alien teams or X-COM are eliminated the game ends. A 24 hour grace period is given before it all starts up again. Each player on the winning team who wants to continue on to the next game gets to pick one agent who took part and survived the final assault to continue on to the next game. This unit is reset to basic equipment and his improved stats are halved. But he should still be a cut above the rest. In addition each player on the winning team gains a rank and a rank point. The ranks are purely cosmetic but the rank points give perks for playing. Each rank point a player has can be spent once per round to give his votes double weighting in important decisions like base building and weather or not to launch the final mission.

Hope that throws another option out there
I'm gonna think about how you could make the two alien sides different from x-com as well as each other while still maintaining balance.

Fudge

And in response to Brick to face maybe the customization might not be on craft (as the x-com manual states they are rented) or UFO but to the crawler (or its alien equivalent). Allowing you to improve its overland speed and such.

[Accipitre]

You have some excellent ideas there. I don't think it will happen for a while, if anything happens. I have a few ideas of my own, although I'm saving them to put into action myself.

[nonam]

It`s already 4 years after this idea was actively discussed. Serge obivously needs another programmer for all these ideas. Maybe 7...

[esniper]

How about use tactical mode with "geo-tiles" and "geo-sprites" instead of geoscape? "Geo-tiles" and "geo-sprites" must be made in other scale, like "Apocalipsis". Not in "city-scale", but in "geo-scale". Tile analog of geoscape. This is good, because tile engine is already done.

[Da Bad Adder]

Ive got an intresting idea. How about you make it so in the battlescape YOU CAN FLY THE SKYRANGER. you could make a massive map fly ufos all around it and board them using your skyranger or flying units. I know it has many potential problems, but it could be just another game mode. If it hasnt been thought of already, maybe it should be considered

[Da Bad Adder]

DOUBLE POST ACCIDENT

Edited by Flaqua-toid Floor-topsy, 22 January 2010 - 04:21 PM.