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XCOMUFO & Xenocide

ART-Morlock


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Perhaps if we could see eyes and ears, then the mouth could still be the "atmospheric filter" system. The non-gender aspect is good, and while it should be muscular, I don't think it needs to be superhero/body builder proportions, as they use weapons over hand to hand combat. All that muscle takes extra nutrition to maintain, isn't the most efficient soldier then... certainly a ripped physique though, check out mensfitness.com or menshealth.com for the kind I mean.

 

Perhaps there would be a couple implant connections on the body, similar to the Matrix implants, where the nutrition gets pumed in and wastes are pumped out? Probably needs to be in a less conspicuous place to avoid the 'android' look. Perhaps under the chin, since there's already the respirator piece there?

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The Mutons simply have to have a mouth, if they don't have a mouth, well, then we stray from the original desing, nothing bad in that, as such... But, well, I'd have to rework my CT completely then. I will do it cladly, but I'd rather not. For I am quite fond of the image I have created for the Mutons in my CT... But I can see how this could work well too...

 

However, if the Muton can eat trough his mouth, and I mean eat solid food. Then they are still according to my CT and the original X-Com Mutons...

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Yeah, we can't make the alien units to look just like the originals, and certainly can't use the same names either. IMO the design of the models is the most important aspect if you had to choose, but the CT work is important too, don't get me wrong. So if a CT requires the unit to look lke the original, that's not a wise thing IMO. We can't ride the fence on using a company's IP.
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So if a CT requires the unit to look lke the original, that's not a wise thing IMO.

 

True, true. Still the "Mutons" have to simply have a mouth - I'd like them to have faces too - to keep the CT in sync with the model... But I have nothing else to whine about! :D

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Yeah, but the point is that the CT should justify the model IMO, not the other way around. Graphics are more important than the CT entry IMO, tho that's not 2 devalue the CTD. They are doin a fine job, but we should change the CT coz of the model not the other way around. I don't personally think they need a mouth, I prefer the respirator myself, makes em seem more like an Uber soldier, as long as they are still organic then modifiers like this make sence 2 me.
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Well, I dislike the respirator, I mean, even those wimpy etherials don't have respirators, and if mutons are supposed to ge versatile, they should be able to breathe in virtually any enviroment, includeing oxygen/nitrogen atmospheres.

I dislike any sort of visible implants on the muton, that respirator makes it seem more like a floater. Speaking of which, floaters should have respirators.

 

Also, I feel that the model should be made to look like the CT says if the CT is done first. If it is done first, than that means that the concept drawers should do up a new concept to the specifications outlined by the ctd.

If the modelers/concept artists can come up with a unit before the ctd can come up with a CT than this is even better.

Edited by Cpl. Facehugger
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Hmm, I'd have to disagree there. IMO the creative text should explain the alien or item concept, not dictate it. They are totally seperate areas. I think it's more important to create an alien that looks really tough and impressive, that the player will enjoy, and then if needed the creative text can be rewritten a little if needed. I think this point came up when creative text was just starting to be written up. One of the senoir members warned that if a text was written up ahead of time that eventually didn't match what was made, the text would change first. Hopefully so that the original text ideas could be explained as well.
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On the other hand, since we're looking at concepts right now, if someone wants to make a design based directly off the CT for comparison, that would be great. Then as a team we choose which design is the best.
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Breunor, you are - as always - quite right. However, you must agree that the departments should work together and that no department should have a dominating stand...

 

For instance, I may write a story for a consept picture, explain the hows and whys... Or the artist may read my story and make the art to follow my predestined hows and whys. Or we can fuse our work together, to for something completely new!

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I think it's certainly valid to use the CT as an inspiration for concept art. And if the teams start working on the same item simultaneously, that's a great idea to work together. But sometimes that won't happen, and if the art team votes on a design that's different we'll just do the best we can I guess.

 

Not meaning to poke fun at GG since I've done it myself, but what CT for mutons would people be referring to? The creative text assetlist has no links to descriptions for the Muton or Muton autopsy. Is there text linked elsewhere?

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There is the topics in the x-net portion of the workshops. That being said, I much perfer Aosar's muton concept for the x-net to fux0r's cyborg muton. No offense fux0r, but I don't really like cyborgs, never will, so I am a little biased. :D
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Well, I just read the entire thread for the xnet entry, and all that you'd have to say is that when they are neutered to become unich soldiers they are also fitted with an environmental respirator. Maybe they have a hard time breathing some of the elements found in our air, and the respirator pulls those elements out like a catalytic converter. It doesn't have to be medically grafted into the face, it could just be a mask.

 

Edit: And since they are neutered, there could be some small device that allows for chemical injections to supplement testosterone or whatever makes Mutons aggressive.

Edited by Breunor
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Once again, you are quite right.

But I still don't like the look of that respirator. I would like something more like a 02 mask that is used in hospitals, or a sealed helmet, or a diver's breathing apparatus. I just think the respirator looks a little like one of those things that people whose voice boxes don't work use.

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I agree that we could make everyone happy using a less robotic looking alien that still uses some sort of mask for breathing and/or enhanced vision during earth missions. Maybe Mutons are from a world with a different visible light spectrum, and ours is difficult for them to see in. So they have some goggle filters and a respirator they wear to help with that. How does that sound?
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I agree that we could make everyone happy using a less robotic looking alien that still uses some sort of mask for breathing and/or enhanced vision during earth missions.

 

<_< Dunno about the enhanced vision, smells like a law suite with Fox to me...

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As in without the goggles they'd have a hard time seeing in daylight or around flourescent light, that kind of thing. They wouldn't get enhanced vision with it, rather their poor vision would return to normal.

 

How would Fox hold IP on a mask that gives you better vision? I'm assuming you're referring to Cyclops or X-Men in general?

Edited by Breunor
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Preddie! :P

 

I figure that mutons should have their own helmets. That way, they have their air, their light, and any other crap they need.

 

That being said, if we decide against helmets, I think it would be more astheticly (sp?) pleasing to have muton's breathing apparatus like a diver's breathing thing, except a little more armored and alien looking.

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Not a problem Aosar. Consider the Protoss Zealots from Starcraft. If they don't cause a problem for Fox, we have plenty of room to make a tough looking alien with an environmental mask I think.
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i think a "mask" would suit a flooter more IMO... For muttons, we could just say that under the interrogation, a muton said that "Earth reminded them of their own planet because of wildlife, oxygen and water".
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Yes, I figure that floaters need masks! You are right!

 

And Bruenor, didn't zealots (and all protoss for that matter) lack mouths? I don't think they need a respirator because they have no perceptible way of sucking air in!

 

Are you reffering to the thing in front of a zealot that looks like it comes out his neck? I always figured that was just a part of his armor designed to make it look ornamental.

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Eh, everyone copies everyone else. If Microprose didn't get sued 4 including facehugger's, or brainsuckers as they called them, in Apoc then we will have no problems whatsoever.

 

And I don't see a problem with an enviromental mask, the Muton's are meant 2 be the best physical soliders that aren't robotic in the Aliens arsenal AFAIK so they should be enhanced as far as I'm concerned. The floaters would be a lot more enhansed, but since they will be a modified Snakeman ( I think ) then we shouldn't have any problems with them looking alike.

Edited by Jim69
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  • 2 weeks later...

Very good, but he looks a little bit too human imo. His face looks human, a bit too human imo.

 

Otherwise I feel that he is good and could be used.

 

Hey, how about we make our mutons wear helmets in the game? I think it might be intresting.

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The problem with Fux's desing is that it isn't immediately apparent that its a Muton. When I first saw it my initial impression was that it was some kind of automoton. Robots don't gel with the original design.

 

For my offering don't worry about colouration or even human features, though Cpl. you must know some seriously weird people if you know people that look like that. His face is more Ape like than human.

 

The colouration is changable within two menu options so the green suit and facial colour is changable. What's most important is that a concept for the aliens must stir some feelings and retain the instantly reckognisable traits from the original. Ok that means that creativity is limited slightly but we're remaking a game not creating from the ground up. :)

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...Ok that means that creativity is limited slightly but we're remaking a game not creating from the ground up. :)

I find that I'm most creative when I'm given constraints. It forces you to think outside the box while staing inside.

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The problem with Fux's desing is that it isn't immediately apparent that its a Muton. When I first saw it my initial impression was that it was some kind of automoton. Robots don't gel with the original design.

 

For my offering don't worry about colouration or even human features,  though Cpl. you must know some seriously weird people if you know people that look like that. His face is more Ape like than human.

 

The colouration is changable within two menu options so the green suit and facial colour is changable. What's most important is that a concept for the aliens must stir some feelings and retain the instantly reckognisable traits from the original. Ok that means that creativity is limited slightly but we're remaking a game not creating from the ground up. :)

How far are the constraints to how far 2 modify them? I think that has been the main problem in both the Snakeman and Muton topics, everyone knows 2 stick 2 the design of UFO but noone seems 2 know how closely :huh?:

Edited by Jim69
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How far are the constraints to how far 2 modify them? I think that has been the main problem in both the Snakeman and Muton topics, everyone knows 2 stick 2 the design of UFO but noone seems 2 know how closely :huh?:

That's the point of concept work. The more we have the better the descision process can be. As a referecne guide and as I've said before the original aliens are the baseline. The concepts must resemble the originals or we'll get complaints saying "that isn't a snakeman" or "that looks nothing like a muton".

 

So they must be instantly reckognisable as the aliens they're meant to be representing. However there is room in the amount of detail and stylisation of the alien.

 

In the case of the sectoid everybody agrees that they have to resemble 'Greys' and for our purpose they have to have an amount of malice in their features almost as if they're enjoying what they're doing to the humans.

 

I don't quite understand why you think "everyone" is having problems as to me it seem that everyone who is posting concept work is coping quite well. When someone posts a concept that doesn't fit in on of the senior art team will say so as we have done in the past.

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Well IMO this is all concept art to discuss. If a person has an idea for an alien they should post it, worst case scenario is that nobody else understands what it is. I think we won't have too much trouble keeping the aliens recognizable for the original gamers, when they see the snake-looking thing or the powerful humanoid they'll know it's a snakeman or muton. For the new player, they'll develop their impression from what they get and the text that explains it, so I think having a striking design that resembles the original is a good, open-ended design guide. As to just how far from the original it can be, I think it's partly personal taste tempered by the fact that it has to be distinctively different from the other aliens but also recognizable from the original series.

 

For example, did anybody see the movie Congo, or read the book? You have these really intelligent apes that are tearing up this team equiped with all kinds of high tech gear. They were very powerful fighters and close to human in intelligence. So I can see a concept where the main body has the power of a primate which is heavily muscled covered by a close-fitting environmental suit, but then a more human-looking head or something that conveys the intelligence to deploy and use military tactics in an organized and large scale engagement. Doesn't have to be a solid bright color, maybe it's more like camo or just dark colors?

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Camo, I'd say. That or a shiny alien alloy armor...

 

So I can see a concept where the main body has the power of a primate which is heavily muscled covered by a close-fitting environmental suit, but then a more human-looking head or something that conveys the intelligence to deploy and use military tactics in an organized and large scale engagement.

 

Maybe, but I'd rather see a distinctly bipedal alien as a muton than a quadruped ape.

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I agree, the gorilla does have long arms that give it too much of a quad look. But the idea of it being heavily muscled with close-fitting armor, rather than having the elite bodybuilder with 4% body fat, wearing spandex. Too bad there are already Klingons, IMO they would fit quite well as mutons, especially considering the CT for them as well.
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Want a heavy look, make it nearly as wide as it has height(sp?). Hmm, maybe some Minbari style bone-structures in the back of the skull? And definedly more of a Predator/Orc style mouth. And maybe some bloody trophies carried on a belt or some jewelry made of bones, ears or eyes. A mask made of a human skull? Or pauldrons made of skulls? Edited by Aosar
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Hmm, The problem with making it wider is that once its a model it does have to fit certain constraints in game. The problem with your other wishlist items is that you seem to be wanting a 40k predator crossover. It doesn't fit in with what is known about Mutons already.
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I think the best thing to think about is what the Muton's main function b4 they were modified by Sectoids/whoever. Like hunter, scavenger, predatorial etc. Not sure what Aosar has written about it recently tho I think they were hunters. Guss the best thing would be to look at what characteristics hunters share. Not offering any suggestions ( yet ) tho I could look into it if peeps think it is worthwhile.

 

Edit: Dunno bout making them the Predator tho, peeps would see straight thru that as a copy, plus Predator didn't really seem like the Muton's to me, could just be me tho I dunno.

Edited by Jim69
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Hey deimos, can you make that picture look like it is wearing a helmetless power armor? Just to see what it would look like.

 

And, hunters don't necesarily collect trophies, sometimes they hunt for sustance, so maby mutons hunt because without raw meat, they die.

 

In congo, those people seemed incompetent to me, you hear a sound behind you, what do you do?, turn around and cap the ugly monkey's a$$? NO, turn around with your gun pointed down, looking around.

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Hey deimos, can you make that picture look like it is wearing a helmetless power armor? Just to see what it would look like.

 

And, hunters don't necesarily collect trophies, sometimes they hunt for sustance, so maby mutons hunt because without raw meat, they die.

 

In congo, those people seemed incompetent to me, you hear a sound behind you, what do you do?, turn around and cap the ugly monkey's a$$? NO, turn around with your gun pointed down, looking around.

I don't think Hunter's collect trophies at all, AFAIK trophies of kills is a very human trait ( unless ne1 knows of an example of animal's doing this as well it should be avoided IMO ). I think all hunters hunt for substanance, killing for the fun of it is also a human trait which is why Predator never really made sense 2 me. I guess it didn't have 2 really as with Arnie and Danny Glover neither film was going to be a prediction on alien life out there :LOL: I think I am gonna look around for some traits on animal hunter gatherers, it might be useful u never know.

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The trophies is a reference to the Predator, they all kept trophies of every kill it seems. Something like an orc might carry skulls or the like as good luck, captured spirits guarding him, or as an intimidation factor in battle. Since the mutons are enslaved to the other aliens, I doubt they'd be given that leeway. It would be nice to have the muton bigger/thicker as said, but Deimos is right about the limitations to keep the unit within the given space.

 

I think the body design Deimos made could work, I think a thicker neck that had big traps would tie the head in nicely and give it a more powerful look. Something thick enough to make it look a little less human, combined with the head would do well.

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Well, muscle is built usually by whatever muscle is used most so I'd say that that the arms, neck and chest need to be quite significantly bigger to give the impression of that the Muton was before weapons were introduced to the race a powerful close quaters fighter. With muscle more like a gorrila as suggested above would make it look less human, tho I'd prefer a less human type face personally.
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Since the mutons are enslaved to the other aliens, I doubt they'd be given that leeway.

 

Well, why not? Why should the alien overlords try to alter these minor rituals, since they have also a psychological effect upon the enemy. Why to fix something that works?

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Since the mutons are enslaved to the other aliens, I doubt they'd be given that leeway.

 

Well, why not? Why should the alien overlords try to alter these minor rituals, since they have also a psychological effect upon the enemy. Why to fix something that works?

I think that is an arguement for theX-Net entry, but basically I'd say it is far too much like Predator for my liking as AFAIK the CTD is following the graphics design not the other way around.

Edited by Jim69
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