The Unthinkable Base Attack

[Aiki-Knight]

I'm amazed.

 

My bases are fully lined with security stations and fully staffed with agent defenders. The lift and repair bay are behind security stations, and there are no holes in the line. When bad guys attack, the routine is to line the far back of the security stations with agents to give cover fire, while the attackers waste their effort trying to take out the station emplacements.

 

But not this time.

 

Osiron and XCOM have been trading raids, with many Osiron killed and no XCOM killed. So today they attacked, and you know what they did? They actually showed intelligence. They attempted to assault only one half of a security station. They rushed PAST the security station weapons and STORMED my agents holding position well behind the station. The gangsters had already breached the station by the time my double-shielded super-agents ran into position. They assaulted my agents at point-blank range with Marsec heavy launchers. I had to draw other agents from elsewhere in the first defensive line to form a secondary defensive line upon which the stormed agents could fall back. Lucky for me that particular base had 24 excellent agents.

 

Of course, my XCOM agents drove back their attack without suffering a single death. But who taught Osiron how to attack an XCOM base so effectively? Since when do base attackers rush right past the blazing security station weapons, and storm fully equipped middle-late-game super-troopers? Since when do they actually breach a hole in a defensive line so far behind security stations? It was unthinkable.

 

It has made me re-think base defence: I've fended off a thousand base attacks - never have I had to work so hard to fight one off before. I've wound up building a couple more stations further back in each base as a fall-back position, guarding my base-attack shelter (the living quarters farthest from danger where all my scientists hide). I've armed all my Toxin-armed agents with devastators when they're not actually out on anti-alien missions.

 

Has anyone encountered such good AI on base attack missions before? I'm telling you - for a minute, despite double shields, cloaks and the whole weapons complement on 24 super-troopers, I was actually WORRIED about containing the invasion. Is it possible that the so-called "learning AI" is actually learning how I defend and hitting me with the gangsters' best shot?

 

Aiki-Knight.

[[NKF]]

I'm not entirely sure the AI's actually learning anything and it was more randomness and luck that played a role. I know it has surprised me a few times when it pulled something completely unorthodox and out of the ordinary, but then later missions just return to the same old grind and return to the same old silly mistakes.

 

I wish the aliens did that more often. It certainly makes things more interesting.

 

- NKF

Edited September 12, 2006 by NKF

[Bullet-Tooth Tony]

From what you've described, I can see only one really intelligent move the gangsters have made - it's when they ran through defenses instead of stopping and trying to disable them.

All the further troubles you had simply because they're heavy armed and are a threat despite their stupidity. The thing that used to make base defense easy (security stations) for some reason didn't work this time.

I also beleive, this happened due to a random factor taking place - they used to stop and shoot, but this time they ran.

From a certain point of view, these occasional AI "enlightments" are even better, than if it was that intelligent all the way. If you know, you're going to face a well-organized attack each time, you're ready for that. But when you expect one more easy mission, but suddenly get a tougher enemy, that "element of surprise" makes the game even more interesting.

[Aiki-Knight]

I know - we endlessly discuss what "could've" been.

 

But wouldn't it be nice if you could at least lock the doors in your own base, and give your agents a little extra time to get into position?

 

How exactly do base attackers get into your base? Do they come in a vehicle/aircraft?

 

Is there a way to intercept base attackers? It sucks not being able to park a tank outside your bases - try to establish a little perimeter security. How you do prevent raids, or do you bother?

 

Aiki-Knight.

[[NKF]]

A few well placed "No-no-no-that-does-NOT-happen!" moments still go down quite well - even if it's against you.

 

About the base attacks, you cannot stop the attack. It's simply an event that occurs at random. If you were to reload the game a few hours earlier, you may have something else happen. More's the pity, actually. Oh well.

 

- NKF

[Aiki-Knight]

My current game continues to have big AI surprises. I raided Diablo with a group of 20 legit super-troopers. As I advanced, a squad of Diablos issued out of a door, and scattered a whole bunch of prox mines before my agents gunned them down. I had to take time to clear the prox mines with grenades. What an amazing tactic! I think I'll start using it in base defence missions!

 

What's up with the computer? Did it learn??? :-)

[[NKF]]

Dumb luck, I would say. I once went on a raid on a neutral company, and watched the guards play catch with blast-on-impact proximity mines. Needless to say, it wasn't pretty.

 

I wonder what would happen if you attack a building, litter the area with proximity mines and then watch how the guards behave? Hmm. Sounds fun. Must remember to try this the next time I get the game running.

 

- NKF

[Aiki-Knight]

I can't believe it. During a base attack, five of my engineers spawned in a security station near the lift. First two seconds, several Osiron guys spawned in line-of-sight to the engineers. Lost 4 engineers. I was dumbstruck! The base was organized WAY beyond need. The base had legit super-troopers with ALL the best gear (disruptor armor, shields, you name it).

 

And I lost engineering staff! It's just... inconceivable! I'm embarked on a sweeping plan of revenge on Osiron: base raids across the board. Building annihilation. The works.

 

I can't believe how the computer is getting at me in this particular game. This is the second raid when I lost staff in this game (the first was on day 2!). I just DON'T lose staff!

[[NKF]]

I had this happen to me a few times, and now I never let any techs go into any of the groups without at least one armed soldier. At the very least a soldier with a pair of stun grapples (knocked out techs don't attract as much attention as a standing soldier).

 

When you get the time, stick defense modules between the lift and the repair bays. This way the raiders that aren't just charging through will get distracted by the guns, even if they aren't working. Or empty corridrors work too, but the defence modules provide targets. Any space between the enemy and where your techs will spawn is good.

 

- NKF

Edited October 28, 2006 by NKF

[Aiki-Knight]

I had this happen to me a few times, and now I never let any techs go into any of the groups without at least one armed soldier. At the very least a soldier with a pair of stun grapples (knocked out techs don't attract as much attention as a standing soldier).

 

When you get the time, stick defense modules between the lift and the repair bays. This way the raiders that aren't just charging through will get distracted by the guns, even if they aren't working. Or empty corridrors work too, but the defence modules provide targets. Any space between the enemy and where your techs will spawn is good.

 

- NKF

 

Thanks NKF. I used to stick escorts in squads with staff. That is now a standing order from now on! I've got security stations in abundance. This particular base is really small in layout, so there wasn't enough space to leave an open corridor between the lift and the security station. If only science staff could at least use medi-kits, but one could argue that they're not trained to do so. Hence, the capacity for a medic would be nice, but hey - I guess when you've suffered a major hit from a devastator, a medic wouldn't be able to save you.

[Sharp]

Wow, bad luck I generally when I buy a second base it will not have a repair bay and will have security stations covering the access room, next to that will be either storage or training rooms with labs and workshops as far away as possible from the access room.

 

Or the second base will be my expensive vehicle base consisting of one living quarters a pair of stores and the rest containing repair bays with any gaps left (preferably by the stores and living quarters) filled by security stations. The only occupants of the base are either a pair of androids, or two pairs armed to the teeth with disruptors/devestators and many grenades and other explosiveness things, then all they have to do is hide in the security stations with a motion detector waiting for hostiles to appear then either give them explosive heck, or if I feel like going out while the battle is raging, in prone in the security station facing the grav-lift with dual disruptors/devestators ready to give any raider a face full of hot hot energy (power-swords were used before but somehow the Android AI isnt too good on automatic with them while prone).

 

Of course the second base layout makes no difference if the first gets raided, which is why I go with buidling base type two for the second base, thatway I can sell the repair-bay in the main base and camp the access point snuffing any raiders and having room for an advanced lab or workshop. This also has other advatages, if any of your vehicles is retreating from damage or lack of ammo if they head back to your main base being chased by enemy vehicles/UFO's the whole base can be accidently blown up costing you millions, instead the vehicle heads to the secondary base which is usually a warehouse so unable to be destroyed in one hit, so highly unlikely to lose lots of stuff.

 

Security Stations not only provide handy defense they also act as internal CCTV allowing you to track raiders progress, now there is a cap on station defences which fire but do all stations regardless of ability to fire or not (from limit not damage) are able to spot raiders?

[Aiki-Knight]

10 Engineers Dead in Alien Assault.

 

A sad day for my XCOM. A battleship and a bomber emerged from a dimension gate right over one of my engineering bases, a warehouse, fully equipped for defence. The battleship fired off a lucky disruptor missile shot and hit the spot in the building that the computer considers "houses" the staff. All 10 engineers were instantly killed, even as my monster fleet was tearing the battleship apart.

 

Long ago, I made sure every XCOM agent is sitting in a ship, rather than sitting in a building. Even if the whole building goes down, the agents are safe in their transport. Sometimes, the ship will sustain a little damage from the falling building, but that's no big deal. At this point in the game, even troop ships are shielded, so the agents were fine.

 

I don't know what's with this particular game. The computer is fluking out and killing my R&D staff, and giving my agents surprises. After Diablo killed four engineers in a base raid, I raided, then demolished, every Diablo building - score be damned! Diablo is $3 million in debt, and they better not show their ugly faces, or I'll blast them back to the stone age. I have 100 super-troopers, all disruptor armor, double shields, all the gear. And NO editor used. I will smash Diablo!

 

I was so P****D at this latest alien outrage that I finished up the last of my 12 planned Annihilators, then POUNDED the alien standing fleet. I sent 12 Annihilators, 13 Retaliators, and 1 Explorer through all three gates, and slammed, and I mean slammed, the alien fleet, all some 15 of them. And instead of grouping my ships against one or two ships at a time, I spread everyone out, so 2 or 3 ships attacked each alien at the same time. NO MERCY!!! I erased the alien presence in the air. I swear - no alien ship will see Earth ever again!

 

Then, although it had no effect, I ordered my massive fleet to attack the enemy buildings. I relished the sight as my fleet pounded the alien buildings with constant disruptor fire for several minutes.

 

I'd do the same thing to their home planet, their cities, if I could find it. If the game had it. I'd give them a taste of their own medicine.

 

It's true, you know - when you name your agents after your real-life friends and family, you even consider the science and engineering staff part of your "family". And when they die, I take it personally. I hate the aliens, you know? I do. I HATE them. :-)

 

What a good game, that can evoke such an emotional response!

[Bullet-Tooth Tony]

The worst thing is that you lose something you can't replace in reasonable time, as amount of personnel to hire is very limited.

I once lost ALL my engineers and ALL my scientists in such situation, but it was on 3rd week or so.

I made one of rare exceptions of "no reloads" rule - because I find it a ridiculous balance fault. In early game you don't have a second base, if you don't want to raid much, and you can't do anything to prevent such disaster.

If the Aliens were a little bit more intelligent, they'd use this X-Com weakness. But they're not, and this thing is absolutely random.

[[NKF]]

Can either of you remember what happened when these accidents occured? I mean, were you engaging the UFOs while they were near your base, or were these UFOs actually openly shooting at your base?

 

I can understand the second scenario, it's not an easy one to stop. Unless they're just there to drop an Overspawn - that's lots of fun to just watch. Through some weird convoluted reasoning, you get to rack up the PR in your favour. At least, just as long as it doesn't randomly plough into your base.

 

But if it's the first one that's bugging you, and it has bugged me in the past considerably, I've found that the best way to avoid this is to park most of your ships in other buildings. Away from your base. All over the city at strategic locations. This way you won't draw too much attention to your base, and any direct fire at ships leaving the tubes will conveniently hit a building owned by some other organisation. Again, through some convoluted reasoning, good PR for your side. And best of all, almost no accidental loss of staff by falling debris.

 

When UFOs enter the city, try not to engage them directly over your base unless they're intent on attacking one of your facilities. Otherwise, all UFOs will have one task in mind followed by a quick retreat to the gates. This will either be to drop units/micronoid rain in/on a building, escort a UFO, drop an overspawn at a particular location or attack a particular location (building owned by any organisation on bad terms with them - you're on this list by default). Even the Apocalypse mission where the aliens go nuts and send their UFOs in force, they tend to have a few selected buildings in mind. The UFOs will merrily open fire on any hostile units near them. It's this defensive fire that does all the damage. So unless their objective is one of your bases, you can often steer their attacks elsewhere or hang back before you spring for the kill.

 

I know this cautious method of playing isn't particularly exciting, but the techs are still allergic to falling debris.

 

- NKF

Edited November 24, 2006 by NKF

[Aiki-Knight]

In this case, the battleship emerged from the gate, which was right near my base, and in a split-second, fired a disruptor missile at the base; in this first shot, it killed all 10 engineers. I got the "Attack on building - Warehouse Three" message as soon as the battleship popped out of the gate.

 

If only we could load staff into ships underground!

 

My girlfriend is a PhD biochemistry student in real life, as are some of her girlfriends. So, for fun, I used an editor to re-name some of the female scientists after her and her friends. Now I'm quite worried for her character's safety! Maybe I should park a phalanx of Annihilators around her base. :-)

[Sharp]

If you are so far in the game to have inter-dimensional craft then you should keep em parked in the air permanantly by the gates so the moment a UFO pop's out, wham you have it crashed almost immediatly, just make sure to move your ships when the gates move. ID craft don't require fuel so you can keep em running in the air as long as thier hull lasts out.

 

And you can keep a few hovering about around bases and important buildings (i.e. Senate), I don't think random vehicles are generated when you run it on fastest so you don't have to worry about any cultist/other hostile faction vehicle being attacked by your vehicles which may miss and cause a lot more damage. Just incase though you can put the safety on your vehicles weapons until you get the UFO message.

[Tsereve]

I like to keep a standing fleet scattered throughout the buildings surrounding each Dimension Gate. It's kind of annoying to have to move them every couple days, as the gate moves away, but really funny to see a couple UFO's appear and scatter, and then from behind, see this cloud of red vehicles rise into the air and annihilate them.

[Aiki-Knight]

Aliens lay the smack down

 

I'm playing late-game, and it seems the cult, the gangs and aliens really hate the glory that is XCOM. I mean, as it should be.

 

So I'm not raiding the alien dimension to denude their fleet, in the hopes of provoking some fun whilst I pump my entire army up to maximum. It turns out that, if you don't raid the alien dimension for air superiority for a while, they'll rebuild their standing fleet. I sent 6 annihilators in after leaving them alone for some weeks, and found 5 escorts, 4 bombers, a battleship and a mothership. Paired off in two groups of 3, my six annihilators ... annihilated this new standing fleet. Ah Aliens, all that work, for nothing...

 

But they are throwing battleships against one of my bases in order to raid the base, and the computer is up to its unusual cleverness in this game. The battleships are dropping quite the load of bad guys, about 20 or so. They land in the lift in a gaggle, and seriously rush the security stations. Almost none of them waste any time shooting at the gun emplacements, but rather storm the base.

 

Now this base of mine has 22 fully, fully geared up supertroopers, a ring of security stations around the lift, no vehicle bay I might add, and a fall-back position at the opposite corner of the base, where one living quarters in a corner is protected by an additional three security stations.

 

The aliens always breach the first ring around the lift before my troops can get into position, and XCOM invariably fights a running hallway battle as two squads race back to the fall-back position to establish a controlled defence. It's really odd - I've never seen this in another game of X3 and I've played through about 12 times. Skels, Arthropods, Spitters and Poppers race through the station fire, some dying, to start roving my hallways, where supertroopers engage them, sometimes at point-blank range, and wipe them out. There has been power-sword fighting in a few cases, where skeletoids storm right up to an agent, who has no choice but to shoulder his/her rifle/weapon and unleash sword-fury.

 

Again, as it should be.

 

But isn't this odd? In this particular game, base raiders correctly storm through the stations and attempt to engage XCOM personnel behind their own defences. Earlier in the game, I lost several scientists and engineers to this, despite a brisk evacuation of personnel to a far-corner fall-back position. More than once, gangsters raced straight to that position to gun down the science staff as they attempted to enter the designated livings quarters, even with a team of XCOM agents having already prepared to defend the area. Did NKF's XCOM mind get mapped and then injected into this game's AI?

 

Of course, I moved out the scientists and engineers from that base long ago, so it's just the aliens trying to raid the single largest contingent of XCOM troops in the game. Nice try!

 

AK