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#201 Aosar

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 10:33 AM

Which did look rather like an aquatoid version of Cthulhu.


True.

And about plasma/laser working underwater I just said that as an example of reducing the workload and not overwhelming the hapless players.


Hmm, fair point...
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#202 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 11:58 AM

think of it this way, the super sub *levithan i think* will just replace all your ships air/sea in the end since the levithan is a land/sea capable craft, all you do is put a sonic cannon and a plasma cannon on it and viola! you got a worthy craft, plus u can keep an interceptor and a sub for just sea, or just land attacks with fusion balls and plasma, or vice versa.

i dont think it would be that much work, and its not like we have a deadline for any of this... so its just a matter of some one saying yea, id be willing to code water phyics, and id be willing to make some fish.... im trying to learn 3DSMAX right now, ive never worked with 3d before but im willing to learn it just because im serious about this project, im also gonna try to learn some more programing and get back into sound editing, even bake cookies for micah and the rest of the guys, all cause im willing to give 200% to this project :cussing:

it just frustrating when i see you guys whine about "ohhh well that means we need to make more models... ohh we gotta do more programing..." <_<

#203 fux0r666

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 04:35 PM

Cthulhu is a registered trademark of the Chaosium publising company. If we're going for some b grade, HP Lovecraft rip off while we're ripping off XCom, I'm bailing on this before I put too much effort in.

Here I go an angry brother gonna make his move
But can I buck him in the city so I never lose?
See I'm a get him in the crowd with a couple heavies
And lay the barrel to the ground, hold the gat steady
And now I'm ready for my adversary, talk is cheap
I'm looking for a way to make a plan gonna keep it neat
So don't be telling me to get the non-violent spirit
'cause when I'm violent is the only time the devils hear it
'cause all I want to see is m****f***ing brains hanging


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#204 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 05:27 PM

Cthulhu is a registered trademark of the Chaosium publising company.  If we're going for some b grade, HP Lovecraft rip off while we're ripping off XCom, I'm bailing on this before I put too much effort in.

Wel, we were just voiceing opinions on ways to incorporate terror from the deep elements, such as lobstermen, underwater colonies, etc.

And we're not ripping off xcom, were being inspired by it :wink: well, actually we are borrowing heavaily off xcom, but this IS a remake right?
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#205 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 06:20 PM

Yeah, that's a bit harsh calling this a "Rip-Off". If games didn't get inspired by anyone then the only games would be Wolfenstein, C&C and Ace Comabat ( think that's what it's called, came out about 14 years ago ).

Edit: And if you really want to "bail" then maybe u should think what u want 2 see in the game and make those views known, the story doesn't have 2 bother u. If it does and u feel that u couldn't work with a story like that then maybe u should "bail".

Edit2: BTW, I'm not tryin to force ne1 out as it may look, I'm just sayin that if someone isn't happy with the way it's goin then noone's gonna stop u walking away, that's all I meant. I guess u have to be pretty dedicated 2 stick with this 4 the next 2-3 years and I'd personally h8 that if it was something I didn't like.

Edited by Jim69, 12 August 2003 - 06:24 PM.


#206 Fred the Goat

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 11:51 PM

Aquatoids vs Sectoids: Of course they'd duke it out. Sectoids would fight each other if you had brains telling em what to do, so of course they'd fight aquatoids. This isn't about race, it's about POWER.
:master: :master: :master: :master: :rock: <-- rock.

Varying ways of tying in games: It's an interesting issue. Maybe even worthy of version 1, but don't get your panties all bunched if it isn't, okay? It's a tough stylistic and resource management decision, putting two games into one remake, and it ought not be made with a hot head and righteous fervor.

Cthulhu: Is cool. And I know jack sh!t about Cthulhu, so I'm one of the people who will say, huh, that's cool. Was it not said that the original TFTD made heavy references to Lovecravtian horror anyway? Like with the Tentaculat? IF we're doing TFTD, we should certainly add at least hints of Cthulhu mythos, and no need to get all huffy about who we're "ripping off", it's a friggin remake! And we won't get sued if we don't say "Cthulhu". We also won't get eaten... :devillaugh:

Various ideas for integration: None of you has come up with the first idea for integrating more than one X-Com game into Xenocide. Trust me. I've seen a few of them. There are always an overabundance of ideas that are new, fascinating, paradigm-shifting, and SIMPLY MUST BE IMPLEMENTED RIGHT NOW. All ideas thrown around are great, but REMEMBER, just because you took the time to write all your fabulous ideas down doesn't mean they're going to be implemented. Write well, ruminate on it, and if you really want to see your contributions finalized in Xenocide, think about all that boring stuff that needs to be figured out, because your thoughts on how chemical flares work will be implemented with much less shuffling of feet than your thoughts on how the alien invasion has transpired over the millenia.

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#207 Aosar

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 12:11 AM

Cthulhu is a registered trademark of the Chaosium publising company.


IIRC Call of Cthulhu RPG is trademarked by Chaosium. In fact, since Cthulhu Mythos is not published only by Chaosium, makes Cthulhu not licensed to Chaosium. The - expired - copyright to Cthulhu belongs to H.P. Lovecraft...

Also we can call the Caretaked Kadhulu, Kadhulu is one of the many names of Cthulhu among humans :naughty:
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#208 j'ordos

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 02:50 AM

Or we write Ktulu ^_^
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#209 Aosar

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 03:05 AM

Or we write Ktulu


IIRC Ktulu is one of the "official" ways of typing Cthulhu...
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#210 j'ordos

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 03:19 AM

But not in that game now is it?
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#211 hArk

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 05:17 AM

What if Aquatoids was fighting Martians long ago and the Aquatoids was winning over the Martians so in last ditched effort the Martians nuked* earth which caused it to be life less and baron but aquatoids survived living deep in the ocean buried in rock.
They slept using cryogenic technology set to wake them up when it is safe to awaken or Martians presence detected
While they sleep and the earth slowly became habitable creation of life began anew on earth which lead eventually humans came to existence
Martians through time lost knowledge all about earth even the existence of the planet on 2010 it was rediscover by the Martians and preparations for hostile take over began
On the first landing of the ethereal the Aquatoids awoke they prepared for revenge (hence the mid game appearance)
With memory of hatred they fire on Martians and thinking the humans is an ally to the Martians was attacked as well

* Or some thing that could cause mass devastation to all life

There you go a reason for all sides to have a 3 way fight

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#212 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 07:43 AM

I know these are all great ideas, but they are really v2++ ideas. How about we work on getting v1 out the door before we start allocating people to version 2 ideas?

That said, sometime down the line we should incorporate elements from all the xcom games (even fps from enforcer) imo.

But new ideas is what the laboratory is for, sooooo keep em coming!
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#213 dipstick

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 01:46 PM

Bloody heck, you lot keep going and going don't you......

I was thinking along the lines of:

Gillmen and (insert other race here) v Aquaoids, sectoids, ethereals, mutons, and tentaculats (for the sake of argument) that way the alien army has specialists for land and sea.
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#214 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 01:48 PM

I know these are all great ideas, but they are really v2++ ideas. How about we work on getting v1 out the door before we start allocating people to version 2 ideas?

That said, sometime down the line we should incorporate elements from all the xcom games (even fps from enforcer) imo. 

But new ideas is what the laboratory is for, sooooo keep em coming!

What could we possibly implement from Enforcer?

#215 j'ordos

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 02:42 PM

We could covert the entire Xcomgame to an FPS? Or just have a first person camera view when it's the alien turn, like in Incubation, that was very cool. You could see through the eyes of an alien, seeing as he ran closer and closer to one of your guys with his back to it, and you sit there and know: "if this SOB can run three more squares my dude is done for", and you start counting: "one,... two,...(uh-oh), threeeee... (help!)... and then it's out of action points :happybanana:
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#216 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 07:47 PM

If games didn't get inspired by anyone then the only games would be Wolfenstein, C&C and Ace Comabat

... pong? tetris? space invaders? ultima 1?

so anyway... about these here aliens... yes i know this is version X stuff.. but i think thats the first thing i said. i think fred pointed out some key points though, but so did mij... bottom line it comes down to is, we all have to be willing to make these ideas happen, not just talking about them... part is convincing the majority (or just the right people) and the other is puttin your nose to the grindstone and doin the actual work.

as far as the copyrights and rip offs and all that... first.. this is a tribute to xcom, there are a lot of gamers out there that dont know about xcom, i just hope our game is good enough for them to say WOW... i wanna play the original... and second im sure or CTD can figur out a way to reword everything just right

as far as why the aliens fight i would like see something from one of our amazing writers on this, or even you guys... maybe we can all vote and agree on one thing and then we can work on the details from there?

:rock: you guys are great, so keep up the good work

#217 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 08:34 PM

Bloody heck, you lot keep going and going don't you......

I was thinking along the lines of:

Gillmen and (insert other race here) v Aquaoids, sectoids, ethereals, mutons, and tentaculats (for the sake of argument)  that way the alien army has specialists for land and sea.

That sounds pretty good.


Anyway, we could incorporate a fps type mode into xenocide. (I suppose I just want to see a good xcom fps.)
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#218 miceless

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 12:06 AM

FPS mode? Might be quite fun i suppose but it would be a major change from the original.

Im not sure how it would work to have a first person PoV in a turn based game but i suppose it could be interesting.

I like j'ordos' idea of having an alien PoV. I can just imagine the Chryssalid Cam. :o
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#219 Aosar

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 12:08 AM

What could we possibly implement from Enforcer?


Nothing since it was a 3rd person shooter, but Alliance would have been a FPS instead...

this is a tribute to xcom, there are a lot of gamers out there that dont know about xcom, i just hope our game is good enough for them to say WOW...


Then again, how much of a tribute it is, if it doesn't contain any original ideas? Sounds more like a rip-off to me...
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#220 warhamster

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 01:06 AM

Wow, this topic has been discussed to death.

Uhm guys, the idea of coming up with Aqualiens is to shorten Aquatic Aliens. Writing it as Aqualiens© Warhamster 2003 everytime is the equivalent of Psylocke's 'the focused totallity of my psionic powers' when all she really means 'brain fryer'. Hehe.

As was my idea before, they both want the lollipop, but the ant on it has to go.

#221 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 14 August 2003 - 08:53 AM

Wow Warhamster, through all of this discussion, your explanation is the one that makes most sense.

I'm not sure about a chryssalid cam, we want this game "rated" m not xxx right? :D

Lastly, fps would be a major change from Xcom, but I think that it would be a good change. Of course that might be my fps fanactism talking.
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#222 Fimbul

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Posted 27 August 2003 - 02:39 PM

A mix between Ufo1 and Ufo2.

Maybe in the near future alot of people will life under water like in Seaquest. So many important buildings could be there. And weak against the aliens.

Also alien bases at?(on?) the ground of the sea. Maybe at later game and you have to research effective weapons and engines for your troops who works under water.

#223 Extralucas

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Posted 01 October 2003 - 11:59 AM

I think Aqua Aliens time of appear should depend on Alien Activity. Say, something like Alien Artifacts from TFTD. When you lose / ignore # of them then USOs start to fly around, attacking ships, and ports. Amount of Artifact Sites (I don't have any new name for it, yet) could vary depending on difficulty level. (Say, 5 - Beginner, 4 - Experienced, 3 - Veteran, 2 - Genius, 1 - SuperHuman <- that means you must win every Artifact Site on SH!). Ofcourse if you will not allow aliens to wake their aquatic cousins you won't be free from fighting 'em anyway. Aqua Aliens could be added after destroying Cydonia. It could be explainded like sending Tachion Stream from Cydonia to Earth requires too much energy from Aliens to perform it, and don't crash power supplying system, but when Brain's dead, they don't need Cydonia outpost anymore, so they can send the Tachion Stream, and Aqua Aliens will be waken. This way you can not stop Aqua Aliens from attacking you, but gives you more time, to finish problem with Cydonia, and use all 'Ground Toys' you acquired during all your game. This way we've got solved problem with ground stuff, because we do not have to why does X-Com keeps so much surface-use-only stuff in base, or why they do not use it at all (like in TFTD).

New Tech Tree with all underwater technology will start after downing first USO, and could be called "Under Water Warfare" with even X-Net Entry saing about that. Gauss technology could be hybrid of Plasma & Laser technology which means if you want research gauss pistol then you need to research plasma and laser pistol first, then rifles, and so on. I think it could be good idea to make researchable building underwater bases. (Or include it just into the Under Water Warfare) These bases are required to build sonars to detect crashed USOs, and those which are still underwater. Workshops, and Subs (IIRC in TFTD they were able to fly aswell) could be still built in Ground Bases. Diving Suit could be another type of armor, manfactured in your workshops. It should have more armor than T-Shirt because built with Alien Alloys, but less than Personal Armor, because it's still an experimental device. Rest of armors, and USO components I would leeft unchanged. Of course Tech Tree should be fixed, and you should be able to research Aqua Plastics without help of Deep One's corpse (IMO extremly stupid way of making Aqua Plastic Armor available later than Personal Armor). I think PSI should doesn't work under water, to give Aqua Aliens another 'advantage' under water. However, on surface, we could still easly Kick As$, but if someone would have aqua aliens attacking him beofre destroying Cydonia, they can still be a problem.
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#224 mikker

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Posted 03 October 2003 - 02:48 AM

well, it would be hard. Because all of your stuff (laser, plasma, HWPs, armor, E115) does not work underwater...you have alot of stuff left over only for on ground use....what about their maintainance?

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#225 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 03 October 2003 - 01:04 PM

Well, can't we say that armor, plasma, tanks, e115, etc works underwater?
I mean, if we want to, we could include modifications to all tech to work underwater once you research the "underwater weapons" upgrade? We don't want people to have to buy a huge amount of equipment again. Or atleast let lasers and power armor be usable underwater :(.
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#226 Extralucas

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Posted 03 October 2003 - 03:47 PM

Power Armor actually, if makes you safe in hostile enviroment like other planets, then probably should easly defend you against depths of ocean. (But, still, it's not underwater dedicated device, and should get some penalties, or such). Still, you don't really have to fight aqua aliens if you don't want to. You can just shot down all USOs and not recover them, until destroying Cydonia, when it becomes your only remaining objective.
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#227 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 October 2003 - 04:01 PM

Actually the pressures of deep sea diving are greater than in space if you go deep enough.

#228 Extralucas

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Posted 03 October 2003 - 04:05 PM

Then we've got the reason for researching diving suits. ^_^
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#229 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 03 October 2003 - 04:44 PM

Hmm, flight suits would not fly underwater, once you research technology X, you can get level 1 diving armor (equivelent of personal armor but without no penalities underwater.) Then once you research a little bit, and get ahold of some alien underwater alloy (maby they add stuff to make it waterproof) you get diving powered armor, then once you research some funky technology that doesn't relate to armor at all you would get underwater flight armor! (whoops I was thinking of the tftd deepone research conumdrum for that last one.:))
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#230 dipstick

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Posted 04 October 2003 - 06:22 AM

Good idea, but I have to agree that it would be a bit pointless to have all the extra stuff. I propose having just gauss and multipurpose tech. I am cookng up some tasty ion tech as well :wink:
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#231 warhamster

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Posted 07 October 2003 - 05:47 PM

So in the end, we'll have earth developed alien tech like the ultimate armor (both for use in water, and space), the ultimate gun, ultimate grenade, etc.

I like that idea. While the aliens and aqualiens give you a whole lot of funky stuff, there's nothing like having your own home cooking at a barbecue.

#232 dipstick

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Posted 08 October 2003 - 02:32 PM

I am trying to do stuff in between coursework, honest!

I think some of you will like the Ionic Bombardment cannon and perhaps the Ionic powered tank :naughty:

Just give you a hint, I am planning that the ionic powered stuff does not get smaller than a tank due to health and power considerations.... :naughty:
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#233 grzegorj

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 12:10 PM

Hello,

I am not a programmer nor a graphic maker, just a player. And I like X-Com games, especially the first two parts of the series. A good piece of news for me is that several projects of X-Com remakes have started recently. You write that your team will focus on a remake of the original game - it is something that I like most. So, perhaps you will find useful some of my ideas.

There are two similar games: Ufo Enemy Unknown / Defense (UFO 1) and Terror from the Deep (UFO 2). Don't you think that joining both games into one would be very interesting?

I mean such a game that the player has possibility to build two types of bases: on the land and on the water. There are both planes and submarines in the game. And there are weapons of many kinds - some of them can function only under water, some only on the land, and some both under water and on the land.

The first stage of the game is on the land only, like in UFO 1. The player develops laser technology and examines alien weapons which are of plasma technology. But one day (other) aliens start to attack also under water. The X-Com must build their first water base. New types of weapon appear on the market ready to buy. At the same time he can develop plasma technology into gauss technology (as described in the Ufopaedia - it was the inspiration of my idea to join both games into one). Some previously invented devices need to be upgraded in irder to use them in water environment - I mean the medi-kit, motion scanner etc. New underwater alien races are psi-resistant. A new MC technology (in fact the upgrade of the previous PSI) must be invented. Etc...

What all of those are for? To make the game yet more interesting. Notice that you must go for hundreds of missions to be able to fly on Mars and finally to finish the game. If you still see only 5 different alien races (not counting their "pets/tanks/robots") in 8 different ships - the game can become boring. My idea is to join both games in order to give the player more fun. If you made this, you would have 9 different races (plus their "animals", 22 types of aliens altogether), 16 different alien vessels (ships / subs), and twice more devices to invent / themes to examine than in one single game. In later missions several alien races could take a part. Can you imagine a mission with mutons and lobstermen together? Or perhaps Martian and underwater creatures should attack each other - and both races should attack humans at the same time?

By the way, you can make even more stages of the game than the two - the stage of only aerial / land attacks (UFO 1) and the stage of land + underwater attacks (UFO 1 + 2). For example, the stage of the war Martian aliens with underwater aliens, then the stage of their alliance against humans. Since X-Com Interceptor seems to tell essentially the same story, also Psilords and Aereons could appear in later phases of the games. And don't forget those many new Enforcer's aliens... Like reapers / giant reapers or ethereals / high ethereals, all the alien races could evolve with time (possibly, because of hybridization with humans). Some races can even become underwater, like sectoids (evolved into aquatoids). Notice that humans have still newer weapons and armours - why not aliens who could have newer and newer races? Details are yours... of course if you please my idea of making the game more fabular.

And finally, 8, or even 16 different alien vessels are not enough for enough fun... That is one of the reasons why the finest XComUtil, a well known add-on to X-Com games, become so popular... One of its best function is giving possibility of having many more alien ships in the game that those eight ones. My favourite is the set of 8 Medium Scouts, 5 Large Scouts, 3 Harvesters etc... (they are taken from NewShips, MapPack#1 and UfoMapEd). The more frequent is the ship in the game, the more different sub-types of it exist. Because you never know what "model" of Medium Scout will appear in the current mission, the game is extremally interesting.... And each of the models need another tactic.

And what about the end of the game? To finish, the player should defeat both the Mars base and the underwater alien city. But... it should not be a real problem to implement one simple feature in the game. Let the player choose if he wants to pass through all stages (Mars + T'leth) or through one of them only, if he wants to have only original alien races or also hybrid / mutant / high races etc. Of course he could play aliens as well - then another scenario would exist.

I think that including my holy wishes (which are described above) in the project should not be too hard. Of course, many more graphics would be needed. But all the mechanisms should be still the same... Implementing the described scenario, or even many scenarios (of player's choice) should not be too hard task, either.

Traditionalists ("either UFO 1, or UFO 2, not both of them mixed together!!!") would be happy - they could just make their choise at the beginning of their game whether they want to play UFO 1 or UFO 2.

And also dreamers, like me, would be very happy - one click on a preference button at the very beginning of the game and here we are - interesting scenario, many UFOs / USOs in the game, many alien races (including all the original ones)... much fun!

#234 grzegorj

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 12:20 PM

I placed a "remake" of this thread in a new thread (dated 8th Apr 2004). It is because my text is long enough... Please do not blame me for that...

But I am extremally glad :D that my idea of combining UFO 1 with UFO 2 (and with elements of other X-Com games) into one game is not too weird!

#235 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 02:28 PM

:huh: talk about beating a dead horse.. As you may have seen this topic has been discussed a lot. Its is defintely something we all agree we would like to see, and we all have agreed it is going to be a V 1.xx . Would probably be best to have one of the moderators append this to the previous thread. That way none of the previous arguements or statements get over looked. You have some good ideas though grzegorj. ^_^

#236 Extralucas

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 02:37 PM

Would probably be best to have one of the moderators append this to the previous thread.

Done.
I'm not back. I'm just dropping by.

#237 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 05:08 PM

Cha Ching! :)

Anyway, just about everyone has agreed- underwater elements are in the pipeline for version 1+.
I'm only partially inactive. :P I can still be reached at cpl.facehugger@gmail.com, and via PM. Preferably the former.

*Coming back? Avast! Facehugger, finish your assignments!*

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#238 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 08 April 2004 - 05:18 PM

don't forget about the Aqualiens Warhamster 2003 ... i'm sorry its just been so long since i've been able to say that.. and since posting in the lab doesnt count anymore i guess this isnt spam ;)