472 replies to this topic

[Breunor]

This shot doesn't show the top edge much, but you can now see the top edge in a render shot. This one shows the front profile with brake flaps open, and closed. Some minor tweaks to polys still, but otherwise this puppy's lookin good. Drewid, I was able to make a type of iridescent canopy on this. I put some polys inside the cockpit to fill the hole up, set the color to a light purple, and with the shiny transparent canopy it gives the effect. Not very useful for an entire ship, as it almost doubles the polys...

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•  2.jpg   36.18K   14 downloads

[Breunor]

In reply to mikker's question of 8 wheels in back, I wanted it to look like it could support a lot of weight back there. However, I could combine the wheel pairs and then use a texture to make it look like seperate wheels, that would cut 192 polys out. It's currently about 1400 polys. The thrust nozzles are another high-poly group. I'm not sure how many, but savings from the use of textures can be made there as well, probably over 100.

As to texturing, what about an olive green or cammo upper section, and a sheet metal/silver look to the bottom? Then there's the various notes, like 'exhaust hot' and 'not a step' that can be pasted around various spots for detail. What about painting the nose cone with the P40 "flying tiger" mouth? For those who are not familiar with it, here's a shot of one:

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•  tiger.jpg   8.68K   13 downloads

[Breunor]

This is an updated wheel section, the textured one on the right is a 24 poly octagon, and it replaces a 96 poly 12-side-o-gon 4 of these can be used, so that removes 288 polys from the model. (one of these days I'll be banned from posted screen shots, it's like an addiction or something!)

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•  1.jpg   10.8K   11 downloads

[red knight]

Be aware that the plane is a pretty big thing (even in battlescape) so we can use a little more polygons if needed...

Greetings
Red Knight

[Deimos]

In reply to mikker's question of 8 wheels in back, I wanted it to look like it could support a lot of weight back there. However, I could combine the wheel pairs and then use a texture to make it look like seperate wheels, that would cut 192 polys out. It's currently about 1400 polys. The thrust nozzles are another high-poly group. I'm not sure how many, but savings from the use of textures can be made there as well, probably over 100.

As to texturing, what about an olive green or cammo upper section, and a sheet metal/silver look to the bottom? Then there's the various notes, like 'exhaust hot' and 'not a step' that can be pasted around various spots for detail. What about painting the nose cone with the P40 "flying tiger" mouth? For those who are not familiar with it, here's a shot of one:

I think the size of the craft is going to be a similar size to a C4 transport (maybe smaller) so it's going to need the extra wheels. I guess operational weight would be in tha range of the C4 even if the size isn't, after all it's carrying the weight of the plane, fuel and a squad of fully armed and armoured troops not to mention its capability to carry HWPs which aren't going to be light so I'd say keep the extra wheels. The exhaust nozzles might be reducable but I guess that'll come down to how it looks in game fully skinned.

The texturing I think should represent its operational parameters so yeah a camo pattern on the top side would be a good idea. As for the underside I don't think it should be reflective as its a military aircraft. I've been reading a lot about 'black project' aircraft recently (for the designs of the Avenger and Lightining) and its probably beyond the scope of the game but there is a 'stealth paint' that chamelonizes the craft to match the colour of the sky. Very cool stuff but I think we should adopt a light grey or blueish grey for the underside. Just my opinion. The camo pattern should be as neutral as possible so it 'fits in' with most environments.

If you like send me a fullscreen render of the ship and I'll have a play with paint schemes. Once everyone's happy unwrap the UV and we can paint on the skin all the extra details like the 'no step', 'danger hot exhaust' and all the other markings. I'm currently working on some identification markers for the craft which I'll post for evaluation soon.

[Breunor]

After playing with the lower poly wheels, I just didn't like them that much compared to the original. While it adds to the total, I don't think it's that much, so I'm keeping the higher poly version. I was able to reduce the nozzle poly count without affecting them any, so that's done. Those are mostly for the Xnet anyways, as I don't think you can see either in the battlescape. So a version with the rear wheels and all nozzles removed can be used in the battlescape view, which drops the poly count from 1365 to 625! I may go back and change those rear exhaust ports from triangles to something a little more rounded, they look a little cheap to me right now. Does anybody see anything else that doesn't seem to fit? Let me know by posting here or PM me. Otherwise, I think it's done.

As we were discussing making versions for the various continenets, what should this one go to? Since it's Deimos' design, I think he should get first say as to where. I'm thinking about making another one based off of the US marines' Osprey design, using jet engines rather than turbo props. It could be the north american version I guess. As to the XC1/interceptor, I think it should be north american since it's design is based off of one. I'm begging a 3D modelling friend of mine who lives near Tokyo to make some asian versions, but so far he hasn't had the time or interest to do so.

[Deimos]

If you're planning on having the Osprey design for North America then we could use the XC11 for Europe if no one has any complaints about that.

As we are going for different craft for each continent, should there be an option to import different craft from other continents in the buy menu? Ok so the first craft you get as a freebie with your base should come from the continent you have your base in but I think the player should get the option to choose which craft they want.

[mikker]

If you're planning on having the Osprey design for North America then we could use the XC11 for Europe if no one has any complaints about that.

As we are going for different craft for each continent, should there be an option to import different craft from other continents in the buy menu? Ok so the first craft you get as a freebie with your base should come from the continent you have your base in but I think the player should get the option to choose which craft they want.

I like to see X-com/xENOCIDE, as an interplanetaric battle on aliens, devloping stuff for the X-corps, not diffrent countrys supporting a anti-alien group with vehicles.

[Deimos]

I like to see X-com/xENOCIDE, as an interplanetaric battle on aliens, devloping stuff for the X-corps, not diffrent countrys supporting a anti-alien group with vehicles.

That's what we're doing, but as with any business they'll find the cheapest/easiest resources they can find. So weapons, soldiers, equipment and anything else theat a player has to buy would initially come from the continent they have their base set up in.

I understand where you're coming from, Xenocide should be seperate from every other military organisation in the world and in the case of uniforms and SOP they will, it just makes sense to outsource for equipment or the costs involved for developing weapons and aircraft just for one top secret project would be astronomical and none of the governments would run to that kind of funding.

Even though the original had skyrangers and interceptors they were leased from the governments of the world in the Xcom universe. If you look at the interceptor there is a similarity to a Mig 29, and if you squint the skyrangr does look like a transport plane albeit with jet engines instead of props.

[Breunor]

The other reason for having various craft from different countries is that it provides a nice amount of variety and spreads the influence on the game. So far we have a functional model for the interceptor and skyranger, but the last thing we want is for somebody who wants to help out decide not to because 'they've already done that part'. Know what I mean? In addition, since it's open source, if you want your own version instead you just swap out the model with another that has the same name, and there you go. One of the reasons we want to have continental variations is because it provides an easy reason for having the different models available. While it would require a little different coding, you could even have a list pop up letting you choose between all the available models from whatever base you're at. Maybe you like a particular model more than another, you could pick that one every time if you wanted. I think the coding will include a variable for the continent for lots of things, like the names for soldiers you recruit. That variable would also determine which model is picked when you make a purchase. So you just swap the north american model with the asian model, and then you get the same one at both bases. All it should require is copying files from one folder to another. The theory is that Renault may make a different model plane than Lockheed (I'm pretty sure they both build planes, right? ) So we want to show a little variety that way.

As it's getting very late, my brain is going to make me ramble on until I spit out that I'd like to see the Oscar Meyer weiner mobile as a drop ship, a huge flying hot dog lands at the terror site to save the day! (Yes, it's stupid, but I'm tired. Good night!)

[Deimos]

Renault make jets? I didn't know that. I know Saab make them the Viggen being the one that springs to mind. Have you got any links to renault jets I'd like to see them.

[Breunor]

I agree with Drewid on that. I have no clue if Renault makes jets, just an example. Must be mixing up my memories of the Discovery Wings channel again. Replace Renault with Saab in my previous post...

[red knight]

Thinking about different models is a little wishy, i suggest to finish one model, and the game first . Even though i know it is difficult to have an artist mind a little chainned...

Greetings
Red Knight

[Breunor]

Here's a link for some models, including an interceptor and transport. I still need to insert skeletons to allow for animations, but the existing models can be used for battlescape once they're textured. Deimos and I were chatting about Avenger and Lightning models, we'll probably start working on some basic designs soon. That link has most of the parts I've made so far, there may be a few missing. The other models are not complete, just a place to put them so I can get to them as I need to. If anybody wants to play with them/improve them, go for it. The small scout still needs some work to get it proportional, I'll get back to it soon.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

I don't know, it might get to be a huge number of rooms in big ships. What ruined Apoc for me was all those little rooms where the bugs could hide.

[fux0r666]

If you notice, Hugger, that that is the same image copied 3 times. That was for demonstration purposes only. It is meant to be a style, not a floorplan.

[Breunor]

Take a look at the floor plans for geodesic dome houses at www.aidomes.com and www.domehome.com. These homes have the faceted dome exterior we talked about a while back as an interesting hull look, and the circular designs would fit in well with them. Just flatten the dome some to make it more of a disc profile. You could have the central engine room, surrounded by wedge rooms that connect via doors either to the center, to each other, or to an outer hallway that runs around the outside. Variations of that could work well. I always thought the outer door should be a great choke point, if you placed the door where two of the discs come together, you could have hallways leading away from that spot at angles that can't be covered until you enter, and then the cross fire takes you out. Having windows in the hull that are reflective makes good sense too. The aliens can see out, but the highly reflective nature and alien lighting inside make it impossible to look in. Perhaps the AI can be coded to make the aliens stay in the ufo when they see humans by the door, so you have several with reactions to take out troops as they enter.

[j'ordos]

You're planning on making UFO's impossible to assault, right? I agree it should be harder than in the first Xcom, but it's all supposed to stay fun. Having all aliens hide in their UFO, with several excellent sniping positions on your advancing squad could prove to be more of an annoyance rather than a tactical challenge...

"Soldier 1, move in - Roger, going in no-zap*aaaaaaarrgh*. Soldier 2, move in - Roger, going in no-zap*aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrgh* Soldier 3, move in - Roger, going in no-zap*aaaaaaaaaaargggh*" (repeat 4 times)

[Cpl. Facehugger]

It won't be that hard j'ordos, it will just require a large amount of grenades. Toss one around each corner and Wham, if there was a sectoid with an heavy plasma there, then there isn't now!

[demich]

Remeber that not all ufos are designed to be war ships E.G. The Supply ship. There shouldn't be any "special" hiding areas. Ofcourse battleship should have such places because it's a WAR ship.

[fux0r666]

I don't know if terran warships have hiding spaces. What Jim meant was that since the corridors are not straight you would not be able to see to the end of them.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Human warships don't genrally have hiding spaces designed for that puropse. They tend to be supply closets and other small rooms.

This new ufo layout would make motion trackers alot more useful.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Im worried that it might get monotous though, like part 3 of tftd's end mission (if you havn't played, it was a spiral that lead to the "Brain" that you had to destroy. It was so annoying that half way through I had enough and tunneled directly to his area.

[Breunor]

A very nasty/fun surprise comes when you show up with blaster bombs... "it takes how many waypoints to work around that curved hallway?!?"

My point with the aliens in the ufo was not that they all run inside and wait, but that they wouldn't see 6 soldiers aiming at the door and decide to walk out anyways. They know they're trapped, so they'll stay inside and engage 1 at a time. I think every ufo should have an air lock represented by a small room with just 1 interior door, and from that door there are several hallways leading away. It would make the ufo easier to walk around in as an alien, but also creates a natural choke point. Opening the outer hull door and having line of sight into half the ufo doesn't make sense, if that hatch failed half your ufo would be exposed to space. And humans could lay waste as well...

[fux0r666]

It would be important in a spacecraft to have bulkheads so that if the hull breaches it won't evaccuate the entire ship and kill everyone aboard.

[Breunor]

Yes, I would consider submarine designs as relevent to spacecraft design. You could have the arches, but if there's a pressure drop they close to isolate the leak. But to have it outside "the box", what about totally round doors? Like Hobbits use in Lord of the Rings? You could have the door split in 2 halves to slide into the wall, and the seam between them could be some type of design like ying-yang or something.

[fux0r666]

I was thinking a sphincter like design using a multitude of overlapping, curved wedge shapes that pivot from radial lines to tangent lines to the round door.

[Breunor]

On one hand, it would look neat. On the other, very expensive poly-wise to model for a door, takes plenty of time to animate and build right relative to a door, and the parts would have to go into the floor and ceiling to disappear, and with the ceiling removed for viewing it might look strange.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Has anyone played avp 2? They had sphincter like doors that didn't seem to take too many polys. Basically they had the door and they textured on the little lines to make it look like it is made of many pieces.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Uhh, its going to take a while on that, as I don't have avp installed anymore

[fux0r666]

Minimalistically, you could make the door out of a 1 dimensional, donut shape and have to morph it's inner circumference outwards. That woud stretch the texture to make it appear that the door is opening in the way I described.

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Here is the 1st screenie I promised.

Currently the sphincter is closed

Attached Files

•  Screenshot01.JPG   18.68K   14 downloads

Edited by Cpl. Facehugger, 17 September 2003 - 05:11 PM.

[Breunor]

Pretty cool looking concept there Jim. I like the sectioned floor design, has an insect feel to it, particularly the center area that sort of looks like a bee's belly. The layout shows what I meant about the hallways leading off behind the entrance very well. With curved walls like that, you could have some halls without doors, but certain rooms could have them to add to the variety. Fun stuff when you open one and several aliens are waiting for you!

[Cpl. Facehugger]

Lookin good.

Irt to your question jim, there are nvgs in the game, but they look like crap. And the game is meant to be dark, that is the lightest example of that particular door I could find.