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#1 Crix Dorius

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 09:52 PM

I updated the Interceptor...

4892 Poly's without Landinggears...

What do you think ?

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Edited by Crix Dorius, 24 June 2003 - 01:08 AM.

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#2 revenant4

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 10:54 PM

Looks Great....that's all i got to say bout that

#3 GreatGold

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 11:43 PM

Very nice Crix... as usual ^_^ ...

So is this the model that will be used for sure?

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#4 Vaaish

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Posted 23 June 2003 - 11:59 PM

it looks nice but I do have a question.
is this the same as the XC-1?

I ask because there appears to already be an interceptor under the completed designs thread at the top of this forum.

also any chance of melding the wings and canards into the fusalage a little better will help combat the snapped on wings look.

Edited by Vaaish, 24 June 2003 - 12:03 AM.


#5 Breunor

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 07:45 AM

The design you have there is very nice looking Crix. However, we have locked down the design on the interceptor to the yf-23. The pic/model posted is only concept art, so if you're interested you can model the high poly version of the plane and texture it.. I had started one, but you'd do a better job IMO. The current model is only 160 polys without landing gear, it may be used for the interceptor screen or something like that. But the higher detail version could use 10 times that number of polys. Please keep your model however, as v1+ will likely include an option to pick which model you want to use when buying an interceptor, or you could swap the model out as a mod.

I can send you what I've done so far on the high poly version if that interests you, I have various pics for scale. I've been placing verts and connecting the dots.

Edited by Breunor, 24 June 2003 - 08:04 AM.


#6 Crix Dorius

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Posted 24 June 2003 - 02:24 PM

"Please keep your model however, as v1+ will likely include an option to pick which model you want to use when buying an interceptor, or you could swap the model out as a mod."

Hey...
Maybe you could chose betwen a handful of Interceptors...
One how is faster and have more range but not so much weaponload...
One heavy armed, but with short range...
etc.

"I can send you what I've done so far on the high poly version if that interests you, I have various pics for scale. I've been placing verts and connecting the dots. "

Sure...

Send it. ^_^

Edited by Crix Dorius, 26 June 2003 - 08:29 AM.

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#7 Breunor

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Posted 30 June 2003 - 12:32 PM

I looked at what I had and it was closer to done than I thought. I filled in the missing spots, but there are still some bumps on the belly to smooth out. I included part of Vaaish's power armor model in the cockpit for fun. The model should be to scale, if not positioned just right. Total length is about 20 meters, as it's scaled to 67 feet long. Poly count is 995, goes up to 1630 with the power armor torso. Obviously there would be an optimized torso to put in there. If anybody wants to do that, go right ahead.

Crix, would you be interested in texturing this? I tried doing some textures, but they look terrible. There is no landing gear for the model, but I did group all the wing flaps so they could be animated if we go that route. Here's some pics of the model, I left the flaps bare so they'd stand out in the pic. The next post will have the 3ds and ms3d files zipped.

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  • Attached File  1.jpg   27.2K   16 downloads


#8 Breunor

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Posted 30 June 2003 - 12:33 PM

Here are the model files:

BTW Crix, feel free to optimize or fine tune anything you see out of place on the model. I had to play with verts to get the shading to work right, and I may have missed some. While the Black Widow stored its weapons in the hull, we'll be putting weapon pods on the wings so people can see them I think. Those are being designed so they can just hook up under the wing, so the flat surface should be fine as-is for that.

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  • Attached File  yf23.zip   58.35K   21 downloads

Edited by Breunor, 30 June 2003 - 12:37 PM.


#9 mikker

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Posted 30 June 2003 - 01:58 PM

uuh, with a little pilot in it ^_^

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#10 Breunor

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Posted 01 July 2003 - 03:57 PM

Isn't he sweet? :pink: Just adorable! :wub:

#11 FireHawk

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Posted 18 August 2003 - 07:27 AM

I actually like the design of the first one more then the f-22
err JSF
err I mean YF-23

What do they have in common :) inorginality :P



This doenst look very advanced..its a russian design the Mig-35
http://www.fas.org/m...row/i42-001.jpg
Did I mention it is equal or superior to any simlar westen craft in development :P It is also stealth :P doesnt look it :)

What is most cool is along the same design as XCOMS interceptor :P

Just a quick edit..I dont have a problem with the model itself...just the craft/design itself :)

Edited by FireHawk, 18 August 2003 - 07:29 AM.


#12 Breunor

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Posted 18 August 2003 - 08:55 AM

If that's the one with directional thrust that allows super fast maneuvering, it's not a stealth capable fighter according to the various Discovery Wings shows that have discussed it. Only the US has stealth capable fighters (that we know about) :D

The point of using a modern advanced fighter rather than a futuristic fighter, is that the interceptor is supposed to be that way. The firestorm is the advanced fighter. The interceptor is just the current cutting edge, production version fighter. That's why X craft like Crix's were not considered, experimental aircraft aren't going to be thrown into the mix without proper testing and logistic support.

And has been said before, this is for version 1, so after the game's released a person can replace models with whatever version they'd like to see in there.

#13 FireHawk

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Posted 18 August 2003 - 10:46 AM

its stealth :P
its outer surface has all sorts of materials to asorb and scatter radar waves :P

Whats actually scary is...that they might sell it in mass to China.


China with mass stealth airforce :P

#14 mikker

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Posted 18 August 2003 - 02:27 PM

They already have....we just cannot see them.. :P


stealthplanes! There are stealthplanes all over the place! :LOL:

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#15 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 18 August 2003 - 03:38 PM

Didn't someone say that the stelth paint washes off when it rains? They won't be attacking me here then :LOL:

#16 Vaaish

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Posted 18 August 2003 - 03:47 PM

its stealth :P
its outer surface has all sorts of materials to asorb and scatter radar waves :P

Whats actually scary is...that they might sell it in mass to China.


China with mass stealth airforce :P

sources on this please... Just say "yes it is because I say so" doesn't work. most of its design seems to defy the principles of stealth tech. The only thing that appears to be near stealth is possibly the intakes but even there it appears to have a few areas that nicely reflect back radar signals.

#17 FireHawk

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Posted 18 August 2003 - 05:37 PM

http://www.fas.org/m.../ac/row/mfi.htm

LOL same site the pic came from :P

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Posted 18 August 2003 - 05:47 PM

Not much good if u like me and can't be arsed, and don't have the time, 2 read it :P

#19 Vaaish

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Posted 18 August 2003 - 07:01 PM

ok I read through that page and global security both said almost exactally the same thing. also checked some individual pages but I wouldn't base more than "hey this aircraft exists" off of them.

Anyway my conclusion on the matter is that it is possible that the mig 35 does have SOME stealth capabilities under the skin but there are several aspects that would negate this. Eg, odd shaped protusions and pylons on the wings, shape of the exhaust nozels, joinder of the intake and fusalage, the movement of the cannards, and what appears to be lack of internal weapons stores. There was no solid information other than the CLAIMS of MAPO-MiG that the aircraft could outperform the F-22, X23, and the future JSF; also based on www.af.mil the F-22 outperforms the MiG 35 in speed, in close range it is possible that the MiG 35 has better low speed handleing. based on this the best bet for stealthiest and effective combat interceptor would be the F-22 or as we chose the X23.

Also both sites say that the Mig 35 manufacture plans were scrapped due to funding issues. I also did not see any info on the Chinese seeking to acquire this aircraft.

#20 FireHawk

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Posted 19 August 2003 - 01:49 AM

well you should reread then its there, or on one of the links of that page

it has internal and external weapons points..just like the f-22.
Neversaid it could out perform the JSF, but the JSF and the F-22 were designed for diffrent things, the Mig-35 just happens to have strike capablites aswell. the JSF is actually being developed to cover the things the f-22 cant do.


Ohh just a little tadbit aswell.
Countries with advanced radar systems have no trouble detecting stealth craft.
How?
well...a Steath Craft creates a hole in a radar grid when the emiter and reciver are put apart from each other.

Edited by FireHawk, 19 August 2003 - 02:00 AM.


#21 Vaaish

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Posted 19 August 2003 - 05:30 AM

well you should reread then its there, or on one of the links of that page

it has internal and external weapons points..just like the f-22.
Neversaid it could out perform the JSF, but the JSF and the F-22 were designed for diffrent things, the Mig-35 just happens to have strike capablites aswell. the JSF is actually being developed to cover the things the f-22 cant do.


Ohh just a little tadbit aswell.
Countries with advanced radar systems have no trouble detecting stealth craft.
How?
well...a Steath Craft creates a hole in a radar grid when the emiter and reciver are put apart from each other.

I saw two wbsites that stated it had internal stores but both were listed as free personal wepages. I do not figgure those in since it is difficult to verify these sites as reputable sources.

According to MiG-MAPO interview they stated that they believe it is a much better aircraft that the F-22, and that while the JSF is a "comparable" aircraft the MiG-35 also is superior here too. Again these are CLAIMS, no data was given to back this up.

the second part:

If this is the case then all stealth tech is obsolete and not worth the effort and money to produce bacause it fials in the very task it was developed for. Even the most stealthy aircraft are not completely invisable on radar, their design simply REDUCES their signature to the point where it is easy to mistake for somethingo ther than a fighter aircraft or a formation of aircraft can be mistaked for a single craft. The extent of this reduction is unknown unless you just happen to have access to classified documents. Unless stealth tech is 100% effective at masking the aircrafts signature there will be no "hole" in the radar net.

#22 FireHawk

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Posted 19 August 2003 - 08:50 AM

Funny then...I suggest you do some more research.

Let me give you a little head start so you know where to begin
F-117 was taking part in some execises....Said F-117 was easily picked up during the Execises and tracked for its entire run. Us looked extremly embarrsed over the incident that its stealth plane could fail:P
Things are better then the f-117 now...but take into account the fact the radar that picked it up wasnt made to do it either :P

here is a tip...goto a shop one with the doorbell things that count when a person has entered, check how they work :P

Amzaingly..you pass though a laser is cut off from a receptor and it knows SOMETHING has passed between them, so it rings.

maybe the US has invented the NEXT generaation in stealth planes that I dont know about that have no reflective or asorbing meterials but are simply made from air so radar waves pass right though it :P

#23 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 19 August 2003 - 09:04 AM

No, stealth technology merely reduces the plane's radar signature. from a plane to a ball. As I understand it, only infrared, or eyes can track a stealth fighter for any legnth of time. You see, the stealth fighter is stealth, but it is only a crude way to make a plane stealth. Now the b-2 stealth bomber, that is much more difficult to detect, because all the round edges make it look a lot like a bug to radar, so say, the iraquis wouldn't know wether that is a bug or a bomber coming to kill them all :D...

Of course, no plane in the world is immune to the oldest detection device in the world, the mark I human eyeball! :D
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#24 Afflicted

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Posted 19 August 2003 - 09:30 AM

Someone should invent a Mark II eyeball, just for the sheer heck of it, and yes, I am writing useless posts.

#25 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 19 August 2003 - 09:35 AM

Were you when we had the spam contest? :D

Anyway, a mark II eyeball would be a robot eye! :D

Unless someone invents some sort of cloaking device, then stealth is the best we have.
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#26 Breunor

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Posted 19 August 2003 - 09:49 AM

Before any more comments bordering on, "you're an idiot, this page says so" emerge, let me say enough already. <_< Flame people about their preference for the "coolest" fighter on another site please...

A number of "possibilities" could occur between now and 10 years later aspect of the game's calendar, allowing any of these planes to be the best at avoiding human technology. They are not doing that however.

Thorough discussions were held about the type of craft to use for the interceptor, those threads are still in the forums so please read them to get a better understanding of what's already been decided on. There is no discussion at this point about using another plane for version 1, it has been decided and agreed on by the senior team. If we did not do this we would have 3D modelers wasting countless hours trying to make the coolest plane to use, while other models were ignored. It's no different than the last dozen or so posts here. You can argue it till the aliens rule us all, each person has their opinion of which to use, based on both solid facts and well intentioned opinion.

Please consider this discussion done, we already have a model to use for the interceptor and creative text is being worked on for it. No other design is being considered at this point. I will leave this thread open for now as we are still looking for an artist to texture the model we have, so anyone interested can post here or better yet PM me so we can keep track of who's doing what. If you wish to "discuss" which plane is best, please continue in the off topic forums.

#27 FireHawk

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 07:02 AM

good point but the simple fact, if a Better model is generated first ...that should be taken over the agreed one.

The fact the "FINISHED" version isnt textured is a load of crap...textureing is what takes the longest(Setting UV out ETC)

Creating a low poly plane takes a good 10-30 mins of time.

This is what your saying, I made a model..someone else can texture it.

Well guess what I suck at textures...Yet I could create a model and texture it within a week less if I have more spare time.

Untill a finished model is given to the project..infleablity is rather silly.

That is my opinion, however I do see the need for a solidfoundation as people can get tried up doing the same models ETC and alot of wasted effort can be generated.
Finish the model, and I would have no argument, but the fact its not finished and if someone came up with a better quality design your unwilling to use it.(Eg same base f-22 lower polies ETC..)


On a side note the ammount of threads around would waste more of my time reading, when a summy could be written. Infact I could create quite a few models instead of having to read long posts.
So consider that.

Quite frankly if someone just sent me a E.mail asking what I could do...and then afterwards, tell me what they wanted me to make I would be much happier then having to sort though crap to find out what people are already doing.
As you said..wasted effort.

#28 Vaaish

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 09:49 AM

... which is why we have an art asset list saying what people are doing. This keeps us from having to email every single person who shows interest in the project something to do.

No the MODEL minght not be 100% done but the concept IS and that is what sets the design of the mode.

Edited by Vaaish, 20 August 2003 - 09:50 AM.


#29 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 09:51 AM

Firstly, ur right about reading all the posts. There are 2 posts u should read b4 saying or doing anything more. They are:

The Art Asset List This is what is being done, and what is yet to be done.

The Style Guidelines Obvious I guess, what u should conform 2 in all ur designs.

Once u read them, and agree 2 them, start doin something. Basically, someone didn't just throw up that interceptor model. The concept was decided upon and then modelled. That's how it's gotta be I'm 'fraid, and there is no point reinventing the wheel. If u r really set on redoing it then do it when we got the other, more important things, done. If we sit and dwell on every design for months on end nothing will get done. Lets settle on this 4 now, get the other models done and get v1.0 out.

Then is the time 4 changing things we don't like, 4 now just accept that it is decided upon by the majority, not just the model but the aircraft it is based upon. There are plently more things u could be doin instead of wasting ur talents on this at the mo, so like I said just lump it 4 now and remember after the initial beta is out u can do as many interceptor designs as u see fit and they will be judged fairly against the 1 we have now. If u wish, think of it as a placeholder, and nothing is set in stone permanantly, just till v1.0.

Edit: Vaaish just pretty much summed up my point b4 I made it :o

Edited by Jim69, 20 August 2003 - 09:51 AM.


#30 FireHawk

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 11:33 AM

LOL
Yes well I ALREDY LOOKED AT THOSE PAGES WHICH BRINGS ME BACK TO MY FIRST QUESTION.

the interceptor is counted as being done but not finalised.
Either that or my IE isnt showing the colour green.
Click on the interceptor link and its counted as open.

so excusebloodly me for my questions

and I will repeat my previous question.
How am I spose to know who is doing what?

Lastly as its not finalised the site itself which I beleive Breunor wrote says its fair game for anyone.

sooo if it is finalised...perhaps that should be reflected on the assetlist.

So people actually know whats going on.

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 12:10 PM

If something hasn't got a name by it then take it on, it's a waste IMO of everyone workin on the same thing. When the concept is agreed upon IMO it is final 4 v1.0, tho others may have a different view on this.

#32 Aosar

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 12:12 PM

sooo if it is finalised...perhaps that should be reflected on the assetlist.


Surely, when it is updated. Same goes atleast for the CT asset list, I have a heavy cannon entry waiting to be posted there, but no worries. I have done my part in it's creation and moved onwards, such is life. A new blood can come along and try his/her chance at it, maybe it will be better than mine, maybe worse, but like I said, such is life. However, that is text and this is art. Art is harder to change and takes much longer time to do so. Indeed, most of the people here - barring myself - have a life, a real life to take care of, aside from this marvellous project. So calmness and patience is both an asset and a requirement of the contriputing members...
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#33 Breunor

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 02:18 PM

Please read this thread if you're wondering which designs have been accepted. These are the design CONCEPTS that have been accepted and are being used. We have a low poly interceptor model for the battlescape and a high poly version for the X-Net UI. Correct, they are not 100% done, but if you read the assetlist instructions it explains that items in blue have been assigned to someone to model. You're correct that it's not complete yet, but it's the red items that are open for new modelers to work on. Once we have a model for every item, if an awesome replacement is made later on that's fine. But it will be based off the concept the senior team agreed to. Crix has made some incredible models for this project, and I have no problem with him making a better version of the interceptor concept if he has no interest in helping with other models. I have no ego issue with it being my model, I am far from being a good modeler compared to Crix and others. If he makes a better version of the interceptor concept we'll use that.

I do have an administrative issue with yet another thread dragging on about someone thinking their differing opinion should make this project turn a 180 on its policies. You don't like reading through all the threads, so you make yet another that we all have to work through? Since I've joined I've come across dozens of repeat threads just like this one, when reading the various thread titles would have provided the answer to a repeat question. We try to keep each thread close to topic so people don't spend lots of time finding answers. But as a new member is expected that you'll read through most of the relevent areas so you don't say the same things over and over.

I have no problem with you having a different opinion than me or anybody else, but you need to accept that no amount of arguing is going to change our policy on designs. I don't care whether my models are used (well, I do just a little :D ), if a better design comes along I'm all for playing a good looking game rather than an ugly one. But if we argue endlessly over who's opinion is best, there will be no game. If you really want your own version that differs from the agreed-upon concepts, you can swap models when version 1 comes out. It will be mod-friendly and open source of course.

And you are completely right in that we are burning our time on arguments like this, so I'm closing this thread so we can move on to other topics.