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#1 demich

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 05:07 AM

HWP with cannon turret
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#2 Aosar

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 05:18 AM

The barrel seems a bit too big, in diameter(sp?) I mean. It looks like it will backflip when it shoots...
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#3 miceless

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 06:32 AM

That looks dangerous! Good job.

And I think i agree with Aosar there.
"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#4 demich

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 10:45 AM

Ok i've made barrel samller. It should look better now.

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#5 Vaaish

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 10:56 AM

For some reason the images don't seem to show up... it just says "user posted image"

#6 Aosar

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 11:05 AM

Ok i've made barrel samller. It should look better now.


Much better, how big is the HWP by the way, when compared to a human being?
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#7 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 11:06 AM

smaller barrel has a much better look, is it possible to see it a little more well lit (not the untextured model)

#8 red knight

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 12:50 PM

The tank looks too dark for me... can you render with a better light source and some lighter background?

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#9 demich

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 08:08 PM

aosar: the whole tank can be put into a 2x2x2m cube.
rk: i'll do it

#10 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 02 August 2003 - 08:10 PM

aosar: the whole tank can be put into a 2x2x2m cube.
rk: i'll do it

u wot? 2m high? I thought 1 square was 2.5m, I may be wrong tho ?

#11 miceless

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:14 AM

We dont want it to scratch the paintwork on the roof do we?!

Yeah, a better lit version would be nice.
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#12 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 05:10 AM

We dont want it to scratch the paintwork on the roof do we?!

Yeah, a better lit version would be nice.

LOL, true. So, it's gonna be about 6ft tall then?

#13 Cubik

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 05:56 AM

Excellent job demich. That really looks like a cannon.

#14 demich

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 06:45 AM

You were asking about brighter version so here it is:)

jim: i don't know how long is feet in [cm] but tanks are aprox 150-160[cm]

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#15 Jesus Escariut

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 06:58 AM

thx for the lighting , looks great

question about tanks, sizes, and how they move. in the old game sometimes a tank couldnt drive through a broken down wall, when you shoot a wall and knock it down and it leaves rubble, occasionally your tanks couldnt move through the opening unless you shot up all the rubble, i mean.. these are tanks? why cant they just drive over the crap? (is this part of the rubbled having height and your tank will hit the roof if you drove on it...?)

#16 demich

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 07:15 AM

j esus : as i know there will be no hex and levels so such events as in old game. In xenocide you will be able (i think so) to move your tank almost everywhere.

Edited by demich, 03 August 2003 - 07:37 AM.


#17 miceless

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 07:31 AM

I think that problem was that the rubble counted as an object with more than zero height, so the tank couldnt get through. Some objects just looked nice but had (effectively) zero height and could be walked/driven over. Depends on the object.

In theory, a tank should be able to drive up to most fences and walls and just drive over/through it anyway. No need to waste ammo shooting the wall up first. :D
"If it moves - kill it. If it doesn't move - kill it anyway, it might move later."

#18 demich

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 07:50 AM

mice; and i hope that they will be able to :). Remeber that in this case there is no diffrence between alien and wall :devillaugh:

#19 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 09:05 AM

You were asking about brighter version so here it is:)

jim: i don't know how long is feet in [cm] but tanks are aprox 150-160[cm]

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Thats about 5 ft. So, it's gonna be shorter than the troops? Maybe it should be a little taller, the doors are gonna be 2.5m, u could make if 6ft ( 2m ) Think the model is someone elses tho, so maybe I should find the topic. Looks good tho, the cannon looks like what I imagined when I play UFO :)

#20 Raven Squad

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 09:27 AM

IMO cannon is way too big. That size cannon would be impractical in so small vehicle. Make it more like 30 or 25 mm cannon.

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Edited by Raven Squad, 03 August 2003 - 09:28 AM.

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#21 Aosar

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 10:24 AM

Maybe it should be a little taller, the doors are gonna be 2.5m, u could make if 6ft ( 2m )


If it's any taller the balance will be shot to heck. It will look like it would fall over when going uphill. Especially due to the fact the gun is mounted on the rear!
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#22 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 10:28 AM

I think it looks pretty good as is. If we made the turret smaller, it would look silly, just because of the size of the chassis. Also, a ROV that's 5'x5'x5' is pretty big...it's about the size of a golf cart.

btw, 2m is about 6'6"

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#23 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 10:38 AM

Maybe it should be a little taller, the doors are gonna be 2.5m, u could make if 6ft ( 2m )


If it's any taller the balance will be shot to heck. It will look like it would fall over when going uphill. Especially due to the fact the gun is mounted on the rear!

Not really, imagine how heavy that cannon is gonna b, thats the balancer, making it taller aint gonna do nothin. And it aint gonna fall over either, since u'd have 2 code that in :P

#24 Aosar

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 11:03 AM

Not really, imagine how heavy that cannon is gonna b, thats the balancer, making it taller aint gonna do nothin. And it aint gonna fall over either, since u'd have 2 code that in


But the gun is the very point! It is heavy and connects to the tank in the rear, if the tank proceeds up a hill, the weight will pull the tank back. While the gun is low the weight will be posed over the bottom of the tank, but if it is higher the weight will have to hang on empty air. I made a quick illustration, the green line is the weight of the gun...

Attached Files


-Aosar
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#25 demich

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 11:35 AM

raven: hmmm this is a little a$$-kicking-cannon. It isn't a machine gun with bigger barrel.

as long as it's smaller then troops it provides good cover for them and they don't need to crouch (you save 4 TUs! ;), it can also act as a support for soldier's rifle so he may gain +20% to accuracy. Ofcourse this bonus will only apply if soldier's "aiming line"(line between soldier and target) will be going through space occupied by tank and he will be standing next to it.

And it can't be taller. Aosar has explained why :)

Edited by demich, 03 August 2003 - 11:38 AM.


#26 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 11:57 AM

Ur missing the point. If the tank is 5ft tall it's gonna b pretty damn small, can u imagine the kick of that cannon on a small base like that? As 4 it rolling down a hill, who is gonna notice?

It isn't actually gonna roll down the hill since we'd have 2 code that into the physics engine. It's a choice of having the tank be the size of a dwarf which would be the victim of humungous kickback, or have it look about 5'7-5'8 and be about the height of an average person, which may be subject to overbalancing problems. At the mo it is as high as a car WITH the cannon on it.

#27 Aosar

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 12:16 PM

which may be subject to overbalancing problems.


Now you're just making things up :LOL:

At the mo it is as high as a car WITH the cannon on it.


But isn't it cute? :LOL: Well, hmm, I dunno, demich, you could make a model that is taller, but keep a backup of the original...
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#28 Raven Squad

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 12:53 PM

raven: hmmm this is a little a$$-kicking-cannon. It isn't a machine gun with bigger barrel.

30 mm cannon isnt machinegun with big barrel :) . It is quite powerful weapon, it can penerate t72 armor from the front. But i understand that u want it to look like uber machine from heck :) . Only thing that troubles me is that isnt it abit over kill to shoot with that thing a single alien. It cant explode large area cos it would make rocket version useless. I will shut up now :)
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#29 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 01:27 PM

which may be subject to overbalancing problems.


Now you're just making things up :LOL:

I didn't mean it would just fall over, LOL, I meant when it was fired. Look at the size of that gun, damn, I bet that can kick. Then imagine that the base is really only 3ft high ( about 1m ). That thing would fly over :LOL: Point is, it won't coz it's only a game, and we'd have 2 make it do that. So, balance problems aint gonna matter are they?

#30 demich

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:05 PM

I've tried to change the height but tank with such such change looks odd, belive me:).

Raven: hmmm i've measured the berrel diameter and it's 120mm... you're right it's too big :)

So I'll do another turret with barrel like this one on image that raven has posted, and current barrel will have smaller diameter (any ideas how much it should have?)

Anyway you will decide which one is better :)

#31 Aosar

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:41 PM

Raven: hmmm i've measured the berrel diameter and it's 120mm... you're right it's too big


Ye Gods! Are there even bullets that big!?
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#32 demich

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:42 PM

something like this? :huh:
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#33 Cpt. Boxershorts

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 02:56 PM

Okay, that's just silly looking.

Realistic or not, I think that it was reasonable looking before. I doubt anyone playing the game would stop to worry about whether the tank should knock itself over when firing.

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#34 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 03:05 PM

hehe, it looks like an airgun attached 2 a tank :LOL:
Somewhere inbetween the airgun 1 and the 120mm 1 would look OK I recon :D

#35 dipstick

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 03:20 PM

Whole turret needs to be wider I think....
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#36 Aosar

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 03:27 PM

Well, triple or quadruple(is that a word? :huh: ) the size of the "air gun" and it should look good...
-Aosar
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I'm Finnish...
"No Worries!"

#37 Raven Squad

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 03:39 PM

Okey now it looks, eh little too small :) . What happens if u lower the turret. And make it wider.
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#38 demich

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Posted 03 August 2003 - 04:25 PM

here it is. lower and wider.

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#39 miceless

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 01:31 AM

I like this new turret look.

The purple gun looks pathetic. It looks more like a laser gun than a cannon. I say stick with the original one, so can we put that back on the new look?

As for the height, its looks ok as it is. Remember that this isnt actually really a tank. Its a Heavy Weapons Platform that isnt going to have a crew. Its more of an automated mini-tank, so i think it looks fine.
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#40 demich

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 06:51 AM

mice: so i should keep the old barrel but make it smaller?

#41 miceless

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 07:10 AM

Its just a suggestion, but...

Can you do a double shot, so we can compare much like you did with the turret?Both with new wider turret.
- One with the old cannon, no changes
- One with the old cannon slightly smaller.

EDIT: i.e. Make the old barrel slightly smaller for one of them, but not as small as the purple version.

Edited by miceless, 04 August 2003 - 07:11 AM.

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#42 demich

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 09:20 AM

here they are
120mm and aprox 70mm :)
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#43 Breunor

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 09:29 AM

Just read through all these posts for the first time. IMO the original barrel looks better than a smaller one. On a full size tank the barrel is smaller because it's what the ammo requires. So the question becomes how many shots does a HWP carry, and what would they look like? That would determine the diameter of the barrel. As to being top heavy due to a thick barrel, that's nonsense. Just because the barrel's connected at the back, doesn't mean the center of gravity is in the back as well. Hold a bat with one hand at the very end and tell me where the center of gravity is. Unless you tilt the bat straight up, it's always in front of your hand, or in this case over the chassis. If the barrel runs the length of the chassis, it would have to tilt over 45 degrees before becomming unstable. At that point the chassis is ready to flip without a turret anyway. (just model a wheely bar back there and we're set :D )

While the working volume is 2x2x2.5m, the HWP doesn't have to fill up that total space, it just needs to stay within it. So it could be 1.5m tall if it looked good. Remember that the diagonal length should be under 2m as well, corner to corner. When you spin it in place, will the corners come outside of the square? If so collision detection will prevent it from spinning when surrounded by units or walls then.

#44 Aosar

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 09:59 AM

As to being top heavy due to a thick barrel, that's nonsense.


Not the barrel, but the ammo and fireing mechanism and such would make it heavy, no?

Just because the barrel's connected at the back, doesn't mean the center of gravity is in the back as well.


Ah, but like you said, the weight doesn't come from the barrel! And however, it would look both unbalanced and ugly if it were any more higher. What I meant in saying the barrel is too thick was a issue of caliber and recoil. AFAIK not even the heavyest modern day artillery uses 120mm ammo, jet alone attach such a cannon to a 2m by 2m base!
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I'm Finnish...
"No Worries!"

#45 j'ordos

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 10:03 AM

120mm is the gun currently used by the Abrams tank (I guess y'all have seen plenty of those the last months on tv :boohoo: )

But i thought that 70mm looked better too. However, maybe you could try 90mm Demich?
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#46 Aosar

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Posted 04 August 2003 - 10:24 AM

120mm is the gun currently used by the Abrams tank


Well, that proves the extend of my knowledge when it comes to stuff like this...
But, still, isn't it a bit big for a 2x2 base?
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I'm Finnish...
"No Worries!"

#47 demich

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 03:32 AM

90mm barrel

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#48 j'ordos

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 03:40 AM

There, as far as I'm concerned I think it's a good size as it is now. :wub:
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#49 miceless

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 04:49 AM

Indeed. 90mm looks great. Does that shot include the new wider turret? I cant tell.
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#50 demich

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Posted 05 August 2003 - 06:01 AM

mice: yes, it does