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T-shirt Armour: merged topics


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#1 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 30 March 2003 - 03:22 PM

This is my first stab at a light duty uniform. Short jacket over a white t shirt, grey trousers, I kept the blue/grey from xc1

The sort of thing worn when on base, or off duty, definitely not for combat unless there is a base attack and you can't get to your armour :-) Still has a holster for a sidearm tho.

It's got bits of US navy in there. insignia and rank on arm, assigned craft (skyranger name for example) and rank on cap. namebadge over left breast.

Not very exciting I'm afraid, but you gotta start somewhere.

whadayafink

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#2 Raven Squad

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Posted 30 March 2003 - 03:36 PM

To me it looks ok, tho it would be cool if they wear berets...
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#3 Xracer

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Posted 30 March 2003 - 07:37 PM

You know covers are not allowed in doors :D
so if you are in base the hat should not be there the rest i think
looks really nice i am not an artist so to me it looks great also its
cool to have some one that work on the original Xcom
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#4 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 31 March 2003 - 12:57 AM

I like the beret idea. I'll give it a go.

I didn't know about not wearing hats indoors, Is that right?
interesting...



I figure the navy wears caps with the ship name on so that when they are on shore leave, and they wake up with a real bad hangover, they look in the mirror and can see what ship they have to go back to.

#5 Breunor

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Posted 31 March 2003 - 08:07 AM

Make sure the insignia's backwards then, so they can read it in the mirror. Just like an ambulance having it backwards so it reads correctly in the rear mirrors of other vehicles. That's a nice picture there. Another option could be MiB outfits- black suit, shoes, and glasses... just don't make the pug dog agent! ;)

#6 LordT

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Posted 31 March 2003 - 10:00 AM

Make sure the insignia's backwards then, so they can read it in the mirror. Just like an ambulance having it backwards so it reads correctly in the rear mirrors of other vehicles. That's a nice picture there. Another option could be MiB outfits- black suit, shoes, and glasses... just don't make the pug dog agent! ;)

These are soldiers, not top secret agents. :)
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#7 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 31 March 2003 - 10:36 AM

There was a guy working on a design for a prequil to x-com1.

You had to set up the MIB network and send out agents to investigate UFO sightings, abductions, cattle mutilations, and human groups collaberating with the aliens. (trust no-one)

You won the game by gathering enough evidence to pursuade the World Council to set up X-Com. :-)

The gameplay was based on a previous game that got canned (The Invaders) and it played really nicely.

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#8 Breunor

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Posted 31 March 2003 - 01:19 PM

'Tis true they were secret agents, but the hardware they carried around would make the special forces proud! :uzzi:

#9 LordT

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Posted 31 March 2003 - 01:42 PM

drewid: You mean the job X-INV had before becoming X-COM?

And there's still a difference between agents and army guys :) ALTHOUGH 10 James Bonds with accesories couldn't be all that bad when battling aliens :ph34r:
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#10 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 31 March 2003 - 03:10 PM

Here's a beret...
Not sure...





LordT X-Inv? That you Steve?

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#11 red knight

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Posted 31 March 2003 - 06:18 PM

Both look cool, at last we have a concept artist...

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#12 Lambers

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Posted 31 March 2003 - 08:02 PM

Oh thank god, a concept artist, I haven't done a concept scetch since my last computer arts class. (over a year ago) I gave it a shot today, and I still suck as bad as I used to... LOL Anyway that looks good to me, I invision the light personal armor going over that, sort of like clamping on... shoulder pads, knee pads... that kind of thing, anybody?

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#13 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 01 April 2003 - 12:31 AM

Personal Armour next :-)

I'll post it at more reasonale size next time too :-), I'm too used to fast dsl connections and lans with big storage.

Give me a slap if I do it again.

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#14 LordT

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Posted 01 April 2003 - 01:46 AM

Here's a beret...
Not sure...





LordT X-Inv?  That you Steve?

No I just picked that up on some fan site that said that that was part of the story :)
I'm not sure thoug, but it sounded cool :D
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#15 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 01 April 2003 - 02:24 AM

No I just picked that up on some fan site that said that that was part of the story
I'm not sure thoug, but it sounded cool


It does. There is somewhere an official X-COM "Bible" and timeline. which list everything and how it all fits together....hmmm...I wonder...:-)

#16 Mindblighter

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Posted 02 April 2003 - 11:55 PM

I like both versions, they don't look too far-fetched (don't really like Star Trek-type clothing). Should I (or someone else) start modelling? Erm...what was the polycount limit again? 1000-2000? :P

#17 Breunor

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Posted 03 April 2003 - 07:35 AM

Like the ethereal model, maybe you should make the soldier seperate from the clothing, then we're ready when we want to make the 'adult only' mod of the game! :devilsmile: Just kidding! I think the consensus was 1000-1500 for a unit, preferably as close to the low end as possible I expect.

#18 Mindblighter

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Posted 03 April 2003 - 09:01 AM

Uhh...do you mean the clothes should be made as a seperate mesh that is included in the same polycount limit?
And I assume you mean a 2-sided mesh "floating" around the model...hmm...I wonder how many polys are wasted hidden behind clothing in the end. Jacket/shirt/coat might be ok as a mesh object, but what about something like shoes or gloves? And I'm not sure if very many models will be wearing shorts either. But command me and I shall obey :P

#19 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 03 April 2003 - 11:24 AM

nonono Bruenor is kidding. :P

layers of poly are a %^$$^% nightmare to rig and animate. unless you use a cloth system. and milkshape/gmax certainly don't got one of those :D

I figure from the distance we are going to be seeing it from most of the clothing effect will be on the texture. you wouldn't even need a lip on the cuffs if it wasn't for the trooper equipping screen.

hmmmmmmm

if the arms are 10 tris round then thats 40 extra for the cuffs which is fine on a model this complex. the collar can go on as a strip sticking straight up. it wouldn't need thickness,
but it would need another poly inside to make it double sided. (Hey RK are the figures going to be back-face culled?)

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#20 red knight

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Posted 03 April 2003 - 03:45 PM

layers of poly are a %^$$^% nightmare to rig and animate. unless you use a cloth system. and milkshape/gmax certainly don't got one of those  :D

I always wanted to program one of those precious clothes animation systems, but thats only a wish... so stick to the easy approach maybe on V6.0 we can do it that way...

but it would need another poly inside to make it double sided. (Hey RK are the figures going to be back-face culled?)


What do the artists need? State the requirements the rest is OpenGL work... backface culling is just adding something like this: glEnable (GL_BACKFACE_CULLING) - Not exact code but it is the idea-... For performance issues i go for very gross culling not at the polygon level, thats for sure (the HW i far better on that)...

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#21 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 06 April 2003 - 02:03 AM

ok
Mindblighter. Don't bother doing the collar as a seperate strip, just put a poly edge around the neck where the collar ends.

Put the cuffs in, you probably won't see that much detail in-game put you would on the equipping screen. but it's as well to not overlap the wrist into the jacket, cos it might show through. just put in lip.

Don't forget we'll need more poly lines around the joints,

The fingers will need a v shape under each joint too. i'll do a sketch cos I'm not explaining any of this too well :D .

ok RK we'll have the characters backface culled to avoid (shhh, you know who). I guess you'll be drawing all the bones stuff at once?

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#22 Mindblighter

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Posted 06 April 2003 - 10:55 AM

*scratches his head*
I wonder if we really need that many polys for hands...
But actually, I was wondering if it is really worth the effort (or polys) to model a face. Would a deformed 'ovalish' shape with a square nose do the trick? They don't show their faces much in the game do they?

#23 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 06 April 2003 - 02:27 PM

hmmm probably not.
but I'd make it five or six round the wrist, four looks just too box like IMHO.

I guess the fingers could be basically 1 box per joint still do the v shape but right up to the top of the finger rather than half-way.

We could save a few more by having all but the index finger and thumb welded together. depends on how close we're going. I

guess there will be some level of zoom control on the camera, so we'll need a reasonable detail level.

Oval with a square nose would be fine for the face. Brow ridge, indents for the eyes. That sort of thing. I suppose we should have different heads for different hair styles n stuff.

Do the face/hands texture as a seperate texture to make mix n match easier. (we might even be able to get a players own face texture from a directory and drop them into the game on the fly )
:alienlol:

BTW if I'm telling you stuff you already know just tell me to bog off :D

I've just read Mavericks idea about the uniform being black, which would look cool, but might get a bit lost and not show it's shape, maybe a darker grey though...we can try diferent stuff out and see what looks good.

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#24 red knight

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Posted 06 April 2003 - 05:53 PM

I guess you'll be drawing all the bones stuff at once?

What do you mean??? Can you be more specific?

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#25 Guest_drewid_*

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 01:55 AM

Will you be drawing all the animated creatures / players in one pass? so maybe something in the loop like like:-
draw underwaterfloor (are we having water?)
draw water
draw floor
draw buildings
draw creatures and shadows
draw alpha polys
draw effects

??

#26 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 02:27 PM

Hey

I don't think there is a seperate topic 4 this, tho the Personal Armour thread contained some info on it, prehaps a mod could copy some of the posts over here if that's not too much trouble?

Well, I said I'd do a concept. I also said I can't draw my way out of a paper bag. So, beware, I warned u :)

BTW, if u can't tell ( which wouldn't suprise me particularly ) This is a soldier in camo's with a light flak vest and the LandWarrior sight on the modified helmet. I assume this is either gonna b eye candy or used 2 explain why the soldier can c aliens that aren't within their line of sight but are of a team-mate's.

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Edited by Jim69, 11 August 2003 - 02:29 PM.


#27 j'ordos

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 03:24 PM

Is that helmet angular? Or meant to be round?
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#28 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 03:26 PM

Rounded, it's the pattern pulled over the top of it, I noticed in a lot of pics that is the way they look. Maybe not 2 the extreme I have it there tho, I think I stretched the pic as well.

Edit: U gonna ave a lot of things like that I suspect, I am not good at drawing, I can do technical drawings and the ilk but something like this just makes my hand feel like it don't wanna move right :) It's probably got something 2 do with my unsteady hand I spose.

Edit2: Like that vest isn't a suicide bomb, it is meant 2 b plated Kevlar, tho I doubt I will model it like that I don't really like the look of it. If u can try and look past the bad drawing and look at the intension as this is more of a guide than a reference picture that I will try and create in 3D.

Edited by Jim69, 11 August 2003 - 03:29 PM.


#29 j'ordos

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 03:42 PM

Well, apart from the shape of the helm and the vest you're going to change anyway, there's not much I can make out of it ^_^
So I'll just shut up now...
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#30 revenant4

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 03:46 PM

Just my opinion but that armor looks a lot like some on the Personal Armor thread...nice idea though

#31 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 03:58 PM

AFAIK the ones on the personal armour thread were actually gonna b used in purely human tech, read the l8est posts there Vaaish is working on that 1 as it is gonna tie in with his other models. AFAIK again it will b between this and the power armour in looks altho ud have 2 ask him. If he actually is going down this path then I'll change it.

So, the reason it looks like that is coz it is based on the concepts raised in said thread :) THis is basically the LandWarrior armour system, which is, as I said, purely human. Here's a colour version so that u can c exactly what I mean...

Basically the flak vest is in DPM as is most of the armour, but under the arms is a thinner material that is black so that it allows sweat. It is currently gonna b used in the UK military soon, I saw it on the news the other day. The armour straps are also black, tho I can change that if ne1 wants. Here y'ar

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#32 Vaaish

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 04:27 PM

this is the image Deimos came up with for the Personal Armor I believe and what I was going to work off of. I'm going to edit it to be a cross between this and some alien alloy parts. to fill the transition stage to full alien alloy.

I think that the starting combat uniform should be as close to modern tech as possible. remeber just tack on about 5 years or so..

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#33 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 05:16 PM

Hmm, I think I see what u mean now. I think the 2 armours should have simularities and differences, I like using the Landwarrior system, prehaps it could be incorperated into ur design.

There should definatly be something that distinguishes the two armours tho. I'm not sure what, but it should definatly look like the Personal Armour is a little heavier than this, yet still maintaining manuverablility. Maybe if the middle section was slightly thicker, and in the X.Net entry it could say something like "With an improved thickness close to that seen in heavier CT groups the armour still maintains a relatively light weight and good protection"

I spose this depends on the CTD write up on both, if they have 1, I'm gonna take a look and c if there is a way we can distinguish ur design from mine while still maintaining the overall flow. I don't know what u think, but I recon the helmet should be the same, but made of the lighter and stronger alien alloys.

Depends on u tho, the way u wanna take ur design.

Edit: This is the way I'd like 2 take the T-Shirt armour, little protection really, this being the standard British military issue DPM's, mixed with the Land Warrior helmet. Then ur Personal Armour could include more of the Land Warrior, more protection and with some alien alloy's mixed in there, in the way u were planning. Here's the pic I'm gonna use as a starting point ( obviously with gloves and no rolled up sleeves and burgen (SP?) :D )

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Edited by Jim69, 11 August 2003 - 05:49 PM.


#34 Vaaish

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Posted 11 August 2003 - 06:31 PM

Hmm, I think I see what u mean now. I think the 2 armours should have simularities and differences, I like using the Landwarrior system, prehaps it could be incorperated into ur design.

There should definatly be something that distinguishes the two armours tho. I'm not sure what, but it should definatly look like the Personal Armour is a little heavier than this, yet still maintaining manuverablility. Maybe if the middle section was slightly thicker, and in the X.Net entry it could say something like "With an improved thickness close to that seen in heavier CT groups the armour still maintains a relatively light weight and good protection"

I spose this depends on the CTD write up on both, if they have 1, I'm gonna take a look and c if there is a way we can distinguish ur design from mine while still maintaining the overall flow. I don't know what u think, but I recon the helmet should be the same, but made of the lighter and stronger alien alloys.

Depends on u tho, the way u wanna take ur design.

Edit: This is the way I'd like 2 take the T-Shirt armour, little protection really, this being the standard British military issue DPM's, mixed with the Land Warrior helmet. Then ur Personal Armour could include more of the Land Warrior, more protection and with some alien alloy's mixed in there, in the way u were planning. Here's the pic I'm gonna use as a starting point ( obviously with gloves and no rolled up sleeves and burgen (SP?) :D )

I'm planning on having a visor wrap around the front and a few plates of alien alloy on say the chest and arms maybe on or two on the legs.

#35 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 12 August 2003 - 07:24 AM

Yeah? OK, I know what u r sayin now, I can definatly make a design that will look weaker than that, I was worrying a little about it.

Edit: I still can't draw very well with a pencil, but I think this should be enough 2 see what my idea is. Please say if anything is unclear and I'll explain it, and any changes peeps think there should be.

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Edited by Jim69, 12 August 2003 - 05:11 PM.


#36 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 12:34 PM

There is 1 thing I could use help with. Does ne1 know if Poser is ne good 4 getting face models? I can model the rest but faces are a little too round I think to model. I think the rest I can do with cylinders and boxes by moving vertacies around, but faces are seriously gonna screw up the shading and skinning.

#37 Vaaish

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 02:59 PM

There is 1 thing I could use help with. Does ne1 know if Poser is ne good 4 getting face models? I can model the rest but faces are a little too round I think to model. I think the rest I can do with cylinders and boxes by moving vertacies around, but faces are seriously gonna screw up the shading and skinning.

work on doing it yourself. I'm very doubltful that Poser can get one low poly enough. It'll be good proactice.

#38 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 13 August 2003 - 03:10 PM

That's what I thought by lookin at it. I've started a little, I figure my first attempt at a model won't be very good ne way so I'll just do what I can and learn as I go.

#39 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 02:43 PM

Hey guys

I've been fighting 3DSM for a couple of weeks tryin 2 get something decent, and I came across a good tutorial that's helped me a lot so I recon I can get something decent soon. Right, I'm gonna post what I got so far ( and try not 2 be too embaressed :) ) just 2 make sure the dimensions of the body look right 2 everyone since I did it from my own drawings rather than a picture of an actual human body. I don't think the chest is right somehow myself but I find it more productive when other's look at it rather than just my view.

Ne way, here's the torso.

Edit: BTW, that little stubby thing is gonna be moved into a sholder joint, I only just extruded it so it looks kinda strange :)

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Edited by Jim69, 20 August 2003 - 02:44 PM.


#40 Vaaish

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 04:00 PM

It s a start, looks like he is going to have some kind of pack? If not then the back arches a bit too much.

#41 j'ordos

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 04:12 PM

I thought it was a female looking to the left side of my screen :LOL:

just kidding ^_^ , there's at least a discernable humanoid shape in it, but the back is indeed bent to much, and I think the chest needs to come a bit higher before sweeping back towards the neck. Here's a side view of a man's torso, maybe you can use it?

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Edited by j'ordos, 20 August 2003 - 04:13 PM.

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#42 Guest_Jim69_*

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Posted 20 August 2003 - 05:15 PM

k cheers, thats the sorta thing I was lookin 4, I thought something didn't look right. LOL, now I look at it he looks like he got one beer gut 2 be proud of :D Yeah, he's gonna have a flak vest on, now I look at it a little more I think the chest is far too small.

Here, I've updated the figure a little and started the arms, obviously u can't c them, I'm still workin on it, but I just wanted a second opinion on the torso again :) I think the back looks better, and I can c where the armour is gonna b a little bit better with the extruded surface. A lot of this is new 2 me so forgive me if I have 2 be led by the hand on this 1 :)

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#43 Breunor

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 08:03 AM

What I've found works well is to find the various profile pics and use them as the background for the various viewports. Then you can create verts along those profiles and connect the dots. There's a good tutorial on the Milkshape web site about making a female model that might be useful too.

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 08:33 AM

Yeah, that's the way I did it, sorta, but with splines instead of a connect the dots type thing. I had a thought, a female version may be unnecessary as the flak vest would hide the figure ne way, unless we go 4 a tomb raider style approach to women :naughty:

#45 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:01 AM

Why not! Besides, it would be uncomfortable for a girl to have her breasts smushed up against the rigid flak vest. :D

(I'm for having all the female xcom agents naked, but I doubt that will happen, so I want to at least be able to tell them apart from my male soldiers on the battlescape.)

And in regards to cup size in games, minimum is CC, max is ZZ.

Edited by Cpl. Facehugger, 21 August 2003 - 09:02 AM.

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#46 Breunor

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:12 AM

:devillaugh: Should we make this a one-handed game? :D

In the SCA about 10% of the fighters are female, and most wear steel breast plates. They typically have a little curvature to them, but no steel bras with reinforced nipples like some fantasy pics would show. You've all probably seen armor that has a stylized chest plate where the pectoral area is sticking out further, that could serve both as the reinforced trauma plate and also give enough room for various anatomy. We'll probably just take the male armor and tweak it a little to make the female version, but I wouldn't hold your breath for triple digit cup sizes... ^_^

#47 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:20 AM

Yes, a one handed game would be perfect!!! Yes!

Ohh, that stinks. :crying:

Oh well, some difference between male and female models is better than no difference. Actually, are the female models going to be in general smaller in size than the male models? I mean, irl, aren't women (usually) smaller than men?
As long as the women have breasts, unlike the original, im happy. :D

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#48 Vaaish

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 09:53 AM

Yes, a one handed game would be perfect!!! Yes!

Ohh, that stinks.  :crying:

Oh well, some difference between male and female models is better than no difference. Actually, are the female models going to be in general smaller in size than the male models? I mean, irl, aren't women (usually) smaller than men?
As long as the women have breasts, unlike the original, im happy. :D

The fenale models should probably be more on the slim side while hte males are more built. think of how most women's arms are much slimmer than the male counterpart. they should probably be a little shorter than males as well say about 2 to 5 inches.

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 02:41 PM

Yeah, I agree with that. Am I the only 1 who thought TR was pretty stupid then? Most of the women in the spec. forces I'd imagine ( I ave never actually heard of a woman in an SF, but if we don't there will be calls 4 sexism :o) would ave an athletic figure, not like Lara who seemed to get implants every new game ^_^

I think Flak Vest's are several kevlar plates that are heald in place by the cloth, I could be wrong tho.

They typically have a little curvature to them, but no steel bras with reinforced nipples like some fantasy pics would show.

They don't??? OMG, there goes my whole illusion of history :whatwhat:

Edited by Jim69, 21 August 2003 - 02:42 PM.


#50 Vaaish

Vaaish

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Posted 21 August 2003 - 03:01 PM

Jim: before you get too far, remmeber to make the head as a separate object so we can swap them in and out easily.