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#1 stewart

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 06:03 PM

I'm not sure this would nessessarily be a post v1 thing. Has there been any thought about creating the aliens language for "atmosphere". I'd like to have a crack at creating the alien writing; I've come up with something really cool.
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#2 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 06:20 PM

I've been thinking about it for Alien Origins. How do they interrogate the first Alien with no Psi? cracking their language probably, but someone asked, do all the different Alien species have the same language? (those which can speak)

#3 stewart

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Posted 03 November 2005 - 06:28 PM

Safe to say the aliens are:

1 ) efficient
2 ) under one government

I think it is reasonable that the aliens use one script.

The script I've come up with is purely phonetic so you can do "english" alien, spanish "alien", etc. as long as the sounds can be represented.

Here's what the word Xenocide looks like in "English" Alien.

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#4 Moriarty

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 02:30 AM

that looks cool. and very alien :)

with all that psi tech the aliens use, maybe they really abandoned writing stuff? or perhaps it is only used by higher-ranking aliens? I always imagined the basic alien soldier to be very much un-educated, because they are genetically designed and bred to be soldiers... not philosophers. The way I get it, there is no real "society" in the aliens that attack earth, just a very simple command structure that branches down from the "Overmind" on mars. The last thing the overmind would want is free-thinking aliens. the script could be a remnant of the time before the overmind, but in that case it would probably be forbidden to keep lowly alien grunts from getting too smart :)
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#5 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 02:35 AM

that looks cool. and very alien :)

with all that psi tech the aliens use, maybe they really abandoned writing stuff? or perhaps it is only used by higher-ranking aliens? I always imagined the basic alien soldier to be very much un-educated, because they are genetically designed and bred to be soldiers... not philosophers. The way I get it, there is no real "society" in the aliens that attack earth, just a very simple command structure that branches down from the "Overmind" on mars. The last thing the overmind would want is free-thinking aliens. the script could be a remnant of the time before the overmind, but in that case it would probably be forbidden to keep lowly alien grunts from getting too smart :)

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I agree with some of those points, but written language would probably still be needed, i.e. to label down which button is "take off" and which one is "self-destruct" in the Terror Ship :laugh:

#6 Blood Angel

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 03:46 AM

Perhaps a psionic vibe, so when they put their fingers near the button a little voice in their head says "take off" or "self-destruct."

Let's not forget the fact that Mutons communicate using an intricate system of dances, jumps and twirls.

#7 tubby

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 07:36 AM

wouldn't understanding there language also be needed to use items like the mind probe because even thoughts are based on your native language

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#8 Mad

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 08:27 AM

wouldn't understanding there language also be needed to use items like the mind probe because even thoughts are based on your native language

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Not necessarily. Maybe not words, but abstracts are transmitted. Like, you think of a chair not as the word "chair" (although you know what the word "chair" means - at least I hope so ;) ) but as an abstract, as lets say some kind of picture.
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Posted 04 November 2005 - 10:16 AM

Perhaps a psionic vibe, so when they put their fingers near the button a little voice in their head says "take off" or "self-destruct."

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Eugh, that's absurdly complicated and farfetched.

About how do Morlocks communicate, it is not really important how they communicated, they are in the grasp of the Overmind and are obviously "teached" the creature's language :)

#10 Moriarty

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 02:19 PM

actually, I dont think it's that far-fetched or complicated. if I had access to psionic technology and wanted to build easy-to-operate machinery, that is EXACTLY what I would do. okay, not with a voice, but if you had buttons that make you "feel" their purpose, that would be perfect. you run your hands over the controls and push the button that feels like "forward", and the ship goes forward.
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#11 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 04 November 2005 - 04:03 PM

Perhaps a psionic vibe, so when they put their fingers near the button a little voice in their head says "take off" or "self-destruct."

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Eugh, that's absurdly complicated and farfetched.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah, but you don't like anything I suggest :P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Untrue, you spent one single day at the CTD, and your posts weren't precisely numerous to say I don't like anything you suggest.

actually, I dont think it's that far-fetched or complicated. if I had access to psionic technology and wanted to build easy-to-operate machinery, that is EXACTLY what I would do. okay, not with a voice, but if you had buttons that make you "feel" their purpose, that would be perfect. you run your hands over the controls and push the button that feels like "forward", and the ship goes forward.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I think that'd be excessively complicated for things that could be solved by simply labeling stuff :) Plus, AFAIK psionic needs a creature to use the powers, is the Overmind going to be telling all its troops what button does what?

#12 stewart

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Posted 05 November 2005 - 12:30 AM

Okay here's a nice sample. The text is:

"Many millions of years ago the planet you call Mars was alive. This life was brought to a barren planet by our civilisation as it was to yours. For millions of years we have visited your planet and genetically developed your species. You cannot kill us; you are part of us...

Here is the centre of Martian civilisation - the pyramids built millions of years before yours - by a species that is your ancestor. No planet is beyond our reach. This power could be yours before long. All we ask is your co-operation..."

Sound familiar? Anyway here it is in "Alien".

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One interesting thing about it is that since it is completely phonetic the possibility of accents are there. For example, the word species; they way I pronounce it is: "Spee Sheeze", some will pronounce it "Spee Seeze". So my "accent" comes through.

In fact then this script can be language neutral. You can use the same script to write in say spanish. This can be an answer if we want more than one written language. The phonomic elemental symbols are constant but their use varies. It's just like the roman alphabet being used by many languages.

EXPLATION OF THE SYMBOLS REPRESENTING THE SOUNDS

Here are the elemental sounds of English. BTW I have a middle-american accent (the one on American TV) so the sounds are based on that accent.

ah like sha na na
aw like saw
aa like hat
o like hot (this sound is half way between ah and aw)
b like bob
p like paul
d like dog
t like tom
y like yes
e like eager
eh like met
g like grass
k like cat
h like henry
hw like whale
kh like chanuka or the french "R" you know the throat clearing noise that a lot of other languages have
ih like sit
uh like tough
zh like fusion
sh like shut up
l like well like
m like mike
n like norman
ng like sing or think
r like run
er like earth
rr the rolled "R"
th(1) like then
th(2) like thin
w like wood
ew like two
oo like book
v like victor
f like frank
z like zebra
s like sam

there are also double letter sounds
t + sh = ch like church
d + zh = j like jack
k + s = x like axe
eh + e = ay like say
ah + e = iy like eye
uh + ew = oh like snow
ah + ew = ow like plough

there are triple letter sounds
uh + ew + e = oh + e = oy like toy
uh + ew + er = oh + er = or like oar

these multiple letter sounds do not receive there own characters but are built from the characters represent the constituent sounds. We'll now list the sounds again and map them to a diminshed roman alphabet by the use of accent markings

A = ah like sha na na
A* = aw like saw
A- = aa like hat
o like hot (this sound is half way between ah and aw) is not represent the user simply picks A or A* at their discretion and the reader decodes it by context.(see footnote)
B = b like bob
B- = p like paul
D = d like dog
D- = t like tom
E* = y like yes
E = e like eager
E- = eh like met
G = g like grass
G- = k like cat
H = h like henry
H* = hw like whale
H- = kh like chanuka or the french "R" you know the throat clearing noise that a lot of other languages have
I = ih like sit
I- = uh like tough, ih and uh are not really related but are mapped to the same letter anyway. (see footnote)
J = zh like fusion
J- = sh like shut up
L = l like well like
M = m like mike
N = n like norman
N- = ng like sing or think
R* = r like run
R = er like earth
R- = rr the rolled "R"
T = th(1) like then
T- = th(2) like thin
U* = w like wood
U = ew like two
U- = oo like book
V = v like victor
V- = f like frank
Z = z like zebra
Z- = s like sam

Footnote: I wanted to ensure only 16 letters in the alphabet

Reviewing we have
ABDEGHIJLMNRTUVZ
using -
ABDEGHIJ NRTUVZ
using *
AEHRU

Regarding most consenants the one without - are voiced. Whereas - is the same consenant but whispered. ie B=P D=T G=K CH=J TH=TH V=F S=Z etc.
Regarding most vowels with * the one with the * is a very short version of the one without. ie Y=E R=ER W=EW
Other accent have no pnumontic scheme behind them they are by-definition mapping.

Anyway the letters can be arranged in a 4x4 matrix:

ABDE
GHIJ
LMNR
TUVZ

a similar 4x4 matrix of bent lines can be made Posted Image

So the letters are simple mapped from one to the other

Letters using - are handled similarly. Since these characters have open space inside them the accent goes inside the character Posted Image

Letters using * are handled similarly with a dot Posted Image

Explantion of the glyphs to follow soon

EXPLATION OF THE RULES FOR BUILDING THE GLYPHS

Letters can be arranged in one of three ways
1 ) as a continuous string of letters
2 ) grouped into words
3 ) grouped into syllables

A continuous string of letters is difficult to read. Grouped as words is how nearly all languages on earth work. The glyph therefore are syllables. Chinese, Korean, and Japanese group their writing into syllables, so this kind of arrangement will be more familiar to our members from these places. In particular the system used here is inspired by the Korean writing system.

This diagram Posted Image shows the arrangements of the letters into the glyphs. This diagram is made to show all possible situations. Any particular glyph may only use some of the indicated spots in the glyph. Whatever the outcome the glyph must be arranged into a square area matching the other glyphs in size.

The heart of every syllable is a vowel sound. The spots A1, A2, and A3 are filled depending on whether the vowel is a one, two, or three letter vowel (note: there is only one three letter vowel "oy", uh-ew-e, "or" uh-ew-er is handled differently).

The B spot contains a consenant. If after the vowel sound there is one consenant and if the consenant is either: {L, M, N, N-, R, or R-} then they are placed here. If the syllable ends in a cluster of consenants then the very first consenant goes here.

The C1 spot contains a consenant. If after the vowel sound there is one consenant and if the consenant is none of: {L, M, N, N-, R, or R-} then it is placed here. If the syllable ends in a cluster of consenants then the subsequent consenants take the C2 to Cn spots as required.

The D1 spot contains a consenant. If the syllable begins with only one consenant it goes here. The D2 spot is the consenant before the D1 consenant and is used if:
1 ) D1 is either: {L, R-, or R*} and D2 is either: {B, B-, D, D-, G, or G-} or
2 ) D2 and D1 are either: D J or D- J-.

The E1 through En spots contain the cluster of consenants at the start of the syllable up until the consenant or consentants in the D spot or spots.

Explantion of the rules for concatenating characters within the glyph to follow.

Edited by stewart, 18 November 2005 - 09:25 PM.

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#13 Blehm 98

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 05:04 PM

If you want to you could give the more important alien races (etherials and sectoids) there own language and writing too. It would have to be the same as the Star Wars system of writing though
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#14 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 05:12 PM

If you want to you could give the more important alien races (etherials and sectoids) there own language and writing too.  It would have to be the same as the Star Wars system of writing though

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I don't know what system is that and don't understand why it'd be the same. But there is no reason for it, it's logical that the written language the Aliens use is the Overmind's

#15 Blehm 98

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 07:06 PM

You'd think that leader races would keep their own languages, i always assumed the overmind took control recently, not was always in power
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#16 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 10 November 2005 - 07:39 PM

You'd think that leader races would keep their own languages, i always assumed the overmind took control recently, not was always in power

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That's because you haven't read Alien Goal.

#17 ATeX

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 03:26 PM

I admire your work a lot and would be a great bonus on the game as an easter egg or similar. I don't think I'll find that fault tough, too little time to learn the language.


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#18 stewart

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Posted 21 November 2005 - 10:58 PM

EXPLANTATION OF THE CREATION OF THE LIGATURES WITHIN A GLYPH

The simple rule is if the interface between two characters within a glyph matches then you can join them together, as long as clarity isnt lost. It is not required that you join them; you can leave the character separate. Reason to create the ligatures are: ( 1 ) you save strokes, ( 2 ) it gives you more room within the glyph to work with ( 3 ) the glyph look better with the ligatures.

In the first column you can see the words: eye, earth, and see. The glyphs on the left show the characters separate the glyphs on the right shopw how they are connected.

The second column shows that when two characters are joined together to create a new concatenated character a third may be joined together if the interfaces match. In the second column you the words: that and fire. Notice how they can be concatenated.

The third column shows how you can bend the concatenation rule slightly. In the word "no" you can see the short horizontal line for the "n" would normally go half way across. Since in this case what is important is that the stroke is short you are allowed to foreshorten it to allow the attachment to the "uh" character with no loss of clarity. For the word "Mow" the short stroke in the "M" aligns with the long stroke for the "ew" character. In this case you can still join them without loss of clarity.

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#19 stewart

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 01:46 PM

Okay so thats how to write the glyphs. Now how do we want to arrange them? And what about punctuation?

Here are some examples of Ferengi Writing.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

What the treker sites say is that it is arranged like a flow chart. I have a better explanation: the ferengi are business men, business men want to know the bottom line and have an executive summary. I believe that formal ferengi writing is exactly the same thing as a diagramed sentence that you see in a grammar text book; they ACTUALLY write their sentences as diagrammed sentences. This way you have choice as to how you will read the sentence: you can just read the main sequence and skip the auxilliary phrases, or if you wish read as many of the auxilliary phrases as you wish. This method of writing would require no punctuation. On the other hand it immediatelly leads to to forms of writing: recorded speach and formal writing. Since communication is linear recorded speach would be like writing as we are accustomed. Formal writing would be like this Fernegi stuff. Anouther negative is that it does waste space. On the other hand it is different and therefore alien.

I can come up with our own form of a diagrammed sentence if we want; what to do you guys think.

Oh and anouther thing: alien number systems, any thoughts? Of course I have a couple ideas. :naughty:
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#20 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 01:48 PM

What program are you using to "write" in Alien?

#21 stewart

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 01:58 PM

MS Paint <_<
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#22 mikker

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 02:27 PM

Stew.... I think you put waaay too much thought into this.... ;)

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

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#23 stewart

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 03:50 PM

You can NEVER put way to much thought into this :innocent:
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#24 mikker

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 04:06 PM

You can NEVER put way to much thought into this  :innocent:

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...said Tolkien, after finishing development of his 216th elven-language dialect.

Some people say that dreams are a portal to the subconscious. If that is so, I am a very disturbed person.

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#25 stewart

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Posted 22 November 2005 - 04:09 PM

had he been properly thorough he would have fully develope Orcish; now that's a mans language.

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#26 stewart

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 01:38 PM

Okay having a nights reset made a difference. Never mind the Ferengi/Diagramed sentence thing; nobody in their right mind would actually make a for-real language that way.

So the choices are:
1 ) Punctuation yes or no?
2 ) Direction of the script?
3 ) Back and forth or not?
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#27 testarossa

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 02:49 PM

Thought the text would look good engraved in stone, as it looks very ancient.

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#28 Mad

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 02:53 PM

Okay having a nights reset made a difference.  Never mind the Ferengi/Diagramed sentence thing; nobody in their right mind would actually make a for-real language that way.

So the choices are:
1 ) Punctuation yes or no?
2 ) Direction of the script?
3 ) Back and forth or not?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe we should orientate on old earth languages. What's the oldest scripted language found? Maybe they "learned" writing from the aliens?

Edited by Mad, 23 November 2005 - 02:53 PM.

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And no, this is not a quote from the Simpson's movie, I want it on paper, that I actually wrote that quite some time before the movie came out.

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#29 stewart

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 06:57 PM

Thad be egyptian Hieroglyphics. IIRC it goes anyway it feels like.
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#30 stewart

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 06:58 PM

Thought the text would look good engraved in stone, as it looks very ancient.

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That looks awsome! =b I'm gonna snag it.

What about sticking the ending text as a wood craving or something?
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#31 testarossa

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 10:30 PM

Here it is in wood. I really like the way this came out, it actually looks as though it's been carved into the bark of a tree. I think this text should definately be implemented in many ways into the game, perhaps on walls in or on UFO's. in Cydonia as well (or its xenocide equivalent).

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#32 stewart

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 10:34 PM

Amazing! How 'bout both materials with the ending script (in post #12).
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#33 testarossa

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 10:36 PM

This one is cropped better.

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#34 testarossa

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 10:38 PM

Amazing!  How 'bout both materials with the ending script (in post #12).

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I was afraid you were going to ask that. You didn't perhaps do that in photoshop did you? with the text a separate layer from the back ground? I'll do it but it will take a while to copy your script.

#35 stewart

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 10:42 PM

MS Paint, bitmap, saved as a jpg or gif, I forget.

If it wont be rewarding for you then never mind.

Hey can you do Neon? I tried to draw Neon but it didnt turn out that great.
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#36 testarossa

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 10:47 PM

MS Paint, bitmap, saved as a jpg or gif, I forget.

If it wont be rewarding for you then never mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well if its for xenocide then sure its rewarding ;). It could just be a little tedious. I'll post it when it's done...it is for xenocide right?

Sure neon is way easier than wood or rock. I may even be able to do it without having to copy your script.

Edited by testarossa, 23 November 2005 - 10:48 PM.


#37 stewart

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 10:50 PM

Xenocide = Fun. It's for Fun. Therefore it's for Xenocide. B)

Hey can you do Neon? I tried to draw Neon but it didnt turn out that great.
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#38 testarossa

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 11:22 PM

Xenocide = Fun.  It's for Fun.  Therefore it's for Xenocide. B)

Hey can you do Neon?  I tried to draw Neon but it didnt turn out that great.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Here I found a way to copy your text, it should be no problem now, and fun as well :) . Still will take a while though. Here's neon in the mean time.


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#39 testarossa

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Posted 23 November 2005 - 11:44 PM

So here it is in wood, looks pretty cool but I think rock might work this best for this and it could also be more likely to be found on Mars than wood, I'll work on that one tommorrow, but for now sleep...

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#40 testarossa

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 08:41 PM

Heres the text in rock, looks pretty nice! I could picture that at cyndonia. Whats it called in Xenocide Thato...something? Something mythological perhaps? Also in reference to the oldest languages, a mesopotamian, rather sumerian writing is the oldest. And this looks Sumerian which is really cool perhaps the aliens passed it on to humans!


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#41 testarossa

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Posted 24 November 2005 - 08:54 PM

This ones even better

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#42 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 02:20 AM

Whee, fun with the Alien language :)

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#43 j'ordos

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 03:06 AM

Whee, fun with the Alien language :)

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Attached File  AlienScript1.jpg   444.1K   77 downloads

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Applying an overdose of Photoshop filters does not help to improve the legibility :P
"You can't trust your eyes if your imagination's out of focus" - Mark Twain
"The mind is like an umbrella, it functions best when open" - Walter Gropius
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#44 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 05:57 AM

Whee, fun with the Alien language :)

Attached File  ScriptCutout.jpg   187.42K   75 downloads

Attached File  AlienScript1.jpg   444.1K   77 downloads

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Applying an overdose of Photoshop filters does not help to improve the legibility :P

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I was having fun :D, though you can't say that the second one doesn't look very alien :P

The first one looks as legible as the original, though, and looks nice :)

Edited by Azrael, 25 November 2005 - 05:57 AM.


#45 stewart

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 12:34 PM

Testarosa those look awsome!!!!!

Azrael the first one is nice; different fonts; hmmmm?
The second one . . . . well . . . uh . . . yer a great guy Az.
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I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#46 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 12:59 PM

Testarosa those look awsome!!!!!

Azrael the first one is nice; different fonts; hmmmm?
The second one . . . . well . . .  uh . . . yer a great guy Az.

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:Hug:

Edited by Azrael, 25 November 2005 - 01:02 PM.


#47 stewart

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 01:11 PM

:pink:
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I'm starting to like the heavy cannon more and more.

#48 mikker

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 01:43 PM

Now there is only one thing left to do;

explain what the heck this is. I mean, I don't get it at all. I can't see any logic in it. The player may want to be able to reverse engineer the code - don't make it too hard. Because I don't get lobster of this.

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#49 testarossa

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 02:27 PM

Ask Vaaish he seemed to grasp it quickly:

http://www.xcomufo.c...c=242024570&hl=

Me, I have no idea how it works, I just thing it looks cool and alien. I think it would be cool to have this writing in the battlescape, like written on the interior walls of UFO, and on Monitors in the control rooms etc. I'll make a metalic one and post it.

#50 kafros

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Posted 25 November 2005 - 03:39 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language

Language Construction Kit


History of the Greek Language
Linear B

You may find something useful in the first one.
DO have a look at the 2nd link!

The last ones may give you some inspiration :D. For example, ancient greeks didn't have commas or spaces...

Edited by kafros, 25 November 2005 - 03:40 PM.