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#1 revenant4

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Posted 10 July 2003 - 10:05 PM

Does it seem strange to anyone that ALL the doors were unlocked...I believe that some doors should be locked and has to be shot to open...especially alien ship doors...maybe the Battleships need to be opened w/ an explosive or it's "Entry Denied"!!!...let me know what you guys think

Oh yeah...1 more thing...Do you think either the aliens or humans (or both) should be able to set a sort of proximity mine on doors so that when it opens the explosive detonates...I know there was proximity mines on the ground but if there's going to multiplayer who honestly would step on it if they see it right in front of them... :huh?:

#2 Puasonen

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Posted 10 July 2003 - 10:46 PM

Does it seem strange to anyone that ALL the doors were unlocked...I believe that some doors should be locked and has to be shot to open...especially alien ship doors...maybe the Battleships need to be opened w/ an explosive or  it's "Entry Denied"!!!...let me know what you guys think

Oh yeah...1 more thing...Do you think either the aliens or humans (or both) should be able to set a sort of proximity mine on doors so that when it opens the explosive detonates...I know there was proximity mines on the ground but if there's going to multiplayer who honestly would step on it if they see it right in front of them... :huh?:

agree.. of course alien doors won't say it in english "entry denied" :D
Proximity mine thingy is also a good idea, then again, who uses doors AT ALL if we make them explode immediatly when you open a door?
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#3 stewart

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Posted 10 July 2003 - 11:51 PM

Not nessessarily though.

In the first season of Star Trek the next generation they come across a ship from the 20th century that has dead people chryogenically frozen. They revive them. At one point in the show one of the people use a wall mounted communicator to call for the captain. He shows up and says the communicators are only for officers. The guy says then why don't they have an executive key for them. the captain anwers because everyone knows that and behaves.

With the aliens being obediant drones in a hive society locking doors are pointless. these ships enter a warzone, to be sure, but the aliens perhaps didn't think security breaches were possible out of arrogence.

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#4 mikker

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 08:30 AM

I agree wit Stewart. Arogance led them into mindless assaults, and why lock doors when they think that they are the only ones smart enougth of using doors? Why bring in the heavy stuff when they don't think they would need them? And why not just blast the human bases? Because they think they can take over the base without trouble.

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#5 Nickisimo

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 08:57 AM

You'd think after months of having their bases and UFOs wiped out that the big brain on Cydonia would call for some drastic action to be taken. For shame, aliens, for shame. :stupid:

#6 Cubik

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 11:25 AM

Doors could also be possible to open from the sides and not just straight on.

#7 _borg

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 12:09 PM

I agree with revenant, at least some doors should be locked and you'd have to shoot them open or use explosives (maybe a small door breach bomb or something). Or maybe some doors in the alien ship could get jammed if it gets badly damaged in a crash...

#8 c4t

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 02:43 PM

yeah, i totally agree with rev. orrrr, since sometimes you may be out of explosives you can somehow hax0r in to the door. i think rev or somebody mentioned this but door charges? not for the sole purpose of blowing people that come out, but charges that blow off the door, liek the sw4t team have. maybe it would take 2 turns to set up? no way you could set that thing up in 4 sec0nds.
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#9 j'ordos

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 02:51 PM

I mentioned this already somewhere, but throwing grenades around corners would be cool too :D
Imagine... you're opening a door from the side, without exposing yourself that is, and then you lob a grenade around the door into the ufo :devillaugh:
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#10 Micah

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 03:06 PM

You'd think after months of having their bases and UFOs wiped out that the big brain on Cydonia would call for some drastic action to be taken. For shame, aliens, for shame.  :stupid:

but they do take drastic measures: they assault your bases with ethereals and mutons. Depending on where you are in the game (technologically) that could be REALLY bad.....

#11 GreatGold

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 03:22 PM

When Ethereals attack you within 3 months of start, that is THE definition of bad... I've had the worst luck in the last 3 games ive played...hehe, now im just bitching, sorry... :P

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#12 Mustang

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 04:04 PM

I like the idea... Maybe there would be a key that you get from an alien outside of the ship that could open that door


#13 j'ordos

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 04:12 PM

I don't think this should become a game of Doom. Get the blue key to open the blue door, then get the red key from those guards on the other side of the map to open the red door, then there is the green key (again on another side of the map... :hammer:
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#14 c4t

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 04:44 PM

LOL. hey, doom was fun. i spent countless hours playing that like 3 years ago on my ps 1. that would suck though. i still like the idea of blowing the heck out of them.
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#15 Micah

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 05:14 PM

hmm.... I spent countless hours playing doom..... 10 years ago? :)

#16 Deimos

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 05:50 PM

Heh, I played doom when it was first released. IIRC it was the first shareware game to recieve hype.

#17 j'ordos

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 06:16 PM

*cough* off-topic *cough* :LOL:
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#18 revenant4

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Posted 11 July 2003 - 11:52 PM

Yeah no keys...but I hope we see some locked doors...would give the game a little (and I mean little) realism...and I just love blowin things up

#19 warhamster

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Posted 12 July 2003 - 09:53 PM

Thinking about it, I never actually thought about why Xcom agents can just open alien doors. And isn't shooting the door knob a little silly as plasma, even lasers can vaporize a wall?

#20 miceless

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 01:34 AM

Yet another use for blaster bombs. Also, what would happen if you forgot to bring the door breaches?

"Ok people, we have to go home and leave the UFO because we forgot the explosives. Never mind."
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#21 warhamster

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 03:53 AM

Another case of gameplay over reality. I guess the presumption is that Xenocide Agents are at least adept at opening locks. even alien locks.

#22 miceless

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 04:16 AM

You could say the aliens have doors that open based on mind powers. You just think "door open" and it opens. Once the humans figured this out, there is no reason why they could not open it too.
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#23 Breunor

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 07:38 AM

The problem with locking doors is that unless grenades can damage ufo hulls, early on you wouldn't be able to get into the ufo if the door's locked. Of all the doors, at least the outer door should have a lock. When an alien walks up it could speak a command humans can't pronounce, or the door could scan the lifeform and either open or lock depending on what it saw.

On most missions though, you've shot down the ufo, and it could be safe to assume that such security measures were disabled in the crash. I think that's the simplest version to go with, and not worry about a complicated/more realistic system.

#24 j'ordos

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 06:22 PM

Talking about coincidence: every time you crash a UFO it's security system is disabled... And what about UFO's that touched down?

Anyway, in another thread it was mentioned how to explain the absence of alien base defences: probably the aliens have no understanding whatsoever of base defence, so the same could apply to UFO's: they are feeling so superior to humans they don't deem it necessary, or they just don't know about it, because they never needed it before. (of course, this makes one wonder why they are so stubborn and don't upgrade their bases/UFO's, so probably they're feeling VERY superior, looking at us as we look upon roaches... :D
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#25 warhamster

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 06:31 PM

Well, maybe we should allow aliens to sowly upgrade technology like we do. maybe by the fourth month they're already using locks, or something like that. i don't know how that's supposed to work, but it's just an idea.

#26 Monkey D. Luffy

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Posted 13 July 2003 - 07:10 PM

Well, if there is a plan for multiplayer human versus alien, I would think that giving the aliens some form of tech tree would definitely be a good idea. Keep the alien game more interesting for those playing that side.

#27 revenant4

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 03:15 AM

If the alien's are so much smarter than humans than maybe they just have more sophisticated locks...like one that was said above about the body scanning and voice recognition (if aliens even have voices)...there should be one guy who has a "Door Modifier" which can open any door...kind of like the jaws of life but modified for the task at hand....this item should not have to be equipped every battlescape but instead just lying at the floor of every skyranger...now I'm not saying every door has to be locked just a few...this would especially fun/challenging in the alien base levels...maybe a control panel, which, is destroyed would shut down all advanced locks

#28 miceless

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 03:30 AM

This would have to be implemented later on, and it has serious potential for becoming more annoying than useful. I think its possible, but its probably best left till later.
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#29 _borg

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 06:38 AM

maybe it could be a feature you can enable/disable, or maybe the difficulty level would have an effect on locks and doors ^_^

#30 Nickisimo

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 06:45 AM

The alien doors kinda remind me of Star Trek. I don't think it matters who's near the door, the system just senses someone there and it opens(although even if you walk right next to it, it won't open, you have to actually take that first step in). A little door breaching base charge would be kinda neat, but I agree with Brue that early on in the game it could be a real hassle when your guys are frantically trying to open the door with just regular nades and explosives. :happybanana:

#31 Breunor

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 07:11 AM

I think the multiplayer idea is where this will really make a difference. It's a given that you'd lock every door you have, so long as you had defenses outside those doors to kill the intruder. Otherwise you're just locking yourself inside with no escape. Now if there was a time limit until reinforcemnts could arrive, that would be an option. But in most situations help is hours away. I think the aliens will either try to escape/run away or kill, not hide until more humans arrive.

#32 Nickisimo

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 07:54 AM

Yeah, why do the shot down aliens just sit there and wait to be killed? If they were smart, the survivors would run from the crash site. Maybe they prize their UFO technology(elerium?) too much to just let it be taken(that or maybe they fear the big giant brain will have them killed if they do that). :happybanana:

#33 j'ordos

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 08:12 AM

Then why don't they all commit ritual suicide when they're shot down by throwing a few blaster bombs on their ship (with them in it :D ) Nothing left to research for Xcom, and the brain wouldn't care about 10 aliens less or so (he11, many commanders here don't seem to mind dozens of rookie deaths :D )
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#34 Nickisimo

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 09:14 AM

I've seen them do that before in an alien base raid. I'll march a hovertank and soliders into the CC and one of the dummies up there will fire a blaster bomb and kill all the leaders upstairs(which is actually kinda frustrating when you're looking for that wily commander). For something with 120% accuracy...is there such a thing as "alien error"? :happybanana:

#35 miceless

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 09:30 AM

Ive had them blow themselves up too. The leaders in the control room of a battle ship are good at it. Ill be halfway up the ufo and the top floor explodes. Sometimes, it has finished the mission for me. Thanks aliens!
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#36 Breunor

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 09:46 AM

Well, would you think all hope's lost when you still have a loaded blaster launcher in your hands? That makes you the Rambo of the sectoid people! A dozen soldiers can all die with 1 or 2 shots of that thing, so I think they expect that they could hold you off until a rescue ufo arrives. But when you show up with your own blaster bombs and plasma, they don't know what hit them. The big brain never learns anything other than, another ship was shot down, and there were no survivors found. The human scum even dragged off the bodies and most of the salvage. They never hear that we've developed tech equal to their own and are killing the many survivors, etc. So I expect their arrogance is what keeps them around. It's only when they send a battleship to your base and it never returns that they'd have an idea that something's wrong.

#37 j'ordos

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 12:20 PM

But what if you are beaten by the aliens one time? OK, most of us would reload :wink: , but what when you don't? The brain's bound to learn then what happened? Or maybe it just makes it feel even more superior, it actually won once! After another 10 lost UFO's it would be bound to learn something though...

Edited by j'ordos, 14 July 2003 - 02:04 PM.

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#38 Nickisimo

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 12:57 PM

I've noticed a correlation between using MC on the aliens, and them coming after your bases. It's almost like at that point, the aliens consider you a serious threat that must be dealt with. Funny...in just a year's time you can have a spaceship that's way stronger than their battleships, ground defenses which can easily repel their battleships, stronger psionics, etc...the aliens stink. :LOL:

#39 Breunor

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 01:56 PM

Ah, but with the xenocide AI, the aliens will be a force to reckon with! :D

Once the game's up and running, there will be all kinds of goodies to try out, and we can make the difficulty levels determine which features are used. Locked doors could be one of them, maybe it takes several high explosives to damage a door enough (or plasma on up) to get in, there's that much more equipment to bring and use. Same with the interior.

Actually, I don't see much use for locking doors until a multiplayer version is ready. Unless you want to hassle the player more by requiring they blast open everything they encounter, which just wastes game time IMO. Having the option in multiplayer might be fun though.

#40 miceless

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 01:09 AM

I think your right, its more of a multiplayer option. That said, we should not worry about it too much, but bear in mind that we might want to implement it later on. Perhaps it could be a game option that the user can toggle at the start of a game?
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#41 Breunor

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 11:59 AM

There is discussion about gameplay options that will be available, but things like this won't be considered there I think. Very likely this could be part of a mod, as many items could be done. Something like this might be a complicated mod however, depending on the amount of modding required.

#42 Nickisimo

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 12:35 PM

I'm guessing that after V1.0 is released there will be a rather large mod to accompany it shortly after. I think our primary goal is to just make the original game first before we hack and destroy something beautiful. :LOL:

#43 revenant4

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 11:10 PM

I'm guessing that after V1.0 is released there will be a rather large mod to accompany it shortly after. I think our primary goal is to just make the original game first before we hack and destroy something beautiful.  :LOL:

Hugely disagree w/ that statement...there are hundreds of mods that have been (sometimes) even better than the original's...just remember that MODS are not permanent...you can just take them off or re-install the original...

#44 miceless

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Posted 16 July 2003 - 01:05 AM

Is the idea behind the later versions to release a MOD for V1.0, or is it actually going to be v1.x, then 2.x etc? No reason why we couldnt keep a version 1 still available.
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#45 Fred the Goat

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 09:01 PM

Hmm...sounds like an actual use for the high explosives? Imagine, actually having a reason to set the timer on a high explosive, place it gingerly on the ground like the warning tells you to, and duck around the corner, rather than set it for zero turns and chuck it off a rooftop. :devillaugh:

I like it. I say on all medium and larger craft, the control room is locked. But maybe along with that, say that the inner walls in alien craft are weak enough to be breached by a high explosive (maybe do this by making the high explosive more powerful? It always seemed a little weak for such a huge chunk o' fireworks). Say, for the sake of gameplay, you can open a locked door by spending 5-10 turns in front of it. Kindof along the lines of the "hacking" idea.

#46 Breunor

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 09:51 PM

Yeah, haing a good use for high explosives is a good idea, this would be one use for it.

I think the mod issue is that we know right now what works in the original when it comes to balance. Lots of cool ideas are out here, but each requires playtesting to get the balance right, and make sure there aren't conflicts created by it. So a 'mod' for that feature can be made (essentially a patch) that makes that change. If the change works, improves gameplay and the game in general, then it would go on the 'next version' list. After several items are in there, they'd all be inserted into the core game, and the beta test would run to make sure the combination of mods doesn't mess things up. If it still works right, then you have your next release.

The other side of that is when you have several options available, each viable but different. Then you could swap out patches/mods depending on which version you want to play with.

#47 miceless

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Posted 19 July 2003 - 11:30 PM

Yeah, a use for the high explosives would be good.

So is the idea to have lots of mini mods that can be put together in any combination to give varying game styles?
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#48 ApOcaLyPSe_1985

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Posted 20 July 2003 - 07:13 AM

what about door traps, or a swat like entry to blow up the doors "safely"?
would really make gameplay interesting, but if the battlefield is to large, traps would have almost no use at all.

#49 Magstar

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Posted 24 February 2004 - 02:12 PM

Crashed alien ships should unlock their own doors automatically, whatever the security system's status is. Those ships are carrying a load of explosives, both in the fuel and in the cargo. If my ship were shot down, the first thing I'd do is book it right out of there, as would the rest of my crew. I wouldn't want to bother with keys, and in the panic there'd be no time for passwords or codes. For the sake of safety, the doors would unlock automatically.

#50 Hellhunter

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Posted 26 February 2004 - 08:48 PM

how about use a "lock opener" like that that appears in movies and "la femme nikita". Just attach in the door side and wait some seconds. but u must interrogate a live alien to research it. or no..

or blast it anyway!