Lasers - Your Opinions?

[Shotgunner]

I just came from another topic I made over in the Strategy/Tatics sub-forum, and was curious to see how many people favor the laser weapons and for what reasons OTHER than unlimited ammo.

 

So, what is your personal reason(s) for the like/dislike of laser weaponry?

 

I persoanlly think it is great - with the execption of interceptor laser cannons, all laser weapons have unlimited ammo for the duration of the mission, and are rather cheap to manufacture. They also free up a lot of room and weight for your troops as no ammo reloads are needed.

[Zombie]

I like the lasers because you have almost immediate access to them. With just a tiny amount of research, you can equip most (if not all) of your squad with Laser Pistols in time for the Terror Site at the end of the first month. If your scientists really haul donkey, you may even be able to equip some of your men with Laser Rifles too.

 

This may not apply to most folks around here, but I do frequent alien base "smash 'n grab" missions to train my troops and to get much needed supplies. Early on, the only non-alien, non-explosive weapon which can destroy a Power Source module is the Heavy Laser. (After the PS is destroyed you can pick up the Elerium crystals which are on the PS base).

 

This leads to damage potentials. Need I say that lasers are more powerful than the standard human weapon counterparts?

 

Finally, lasers are hands-down the best weapon against Sectopods as it deals 1.5x normal damage on them. (I always cringe when I see people go up against them with a squad with only Plasma Rifles. Gee, if you are going for the big guns, research the Heavy Plasma as that will at least have a chance of killing Sectopods).

 

- Zombie

[[NKF]]

Here's my list of reasons - or at least the ones I can come up with at the moment.

• Fast and cheap access - Yep, they're quick to obtain.
  
• Lack of ammo - This frees up a a generous amount of space for additional heavy hitting weapons. Grenades. Grenades. Grenades. Oh, and maybe rockets. Did I say grenades?
  
• Moderate power - A cut above your basic firearms and strong enough to kill absolutely anything given enough shots.
  
• Fast firing - The laser rifle gets off one shot more than your average plasma weapon in a good number of firing modes, and the laser pistol is the fastest weapon in the game - except for its snapshot. So lasers may not hit hard, they just get more chances. Also, by carefully managing your TUs, the faster firing offers better mobility (for running away) and slightly better defense against enemy reactions.
  

The craft laser cannon on the other hand is an acquired taste.

 

- NKF

[Exo2000]

Personally, once they're buffed with the XComUtil app, Lasers are some of the most valuable weapons in the entire game. I very recently switched from a full Heavy Plasma to a half Heavy Plasma / half Heavy Laser setup, as I'm encountering a lot of Ethereals and thus Sectopods. Whilst Heavy Plasmas are still quite effective, it's amazing watching a Rookie take an aimed shot and take down a Sectopod in one hit!

[Robo Dojo 58]

Buffing laser weapons is IMO a cheap tactic. They're good enough as is, with unique advantages over even the plasma weapons. Laser rifles can be effective throughout the whole game, and a heavy laser is one of your few hopes of taking out sectopods. Laser pistols make ideal sidearms for your rocket/heavy cannon troops, and I have a LOT of them.

 

I don't bother with craft lasers. Almost anything it can shoot shoots back. Damaged craft have a lot of downtime, when I normally need a lot of uptime.

[[Blehm 98]]

the only reason i use xcomutil to make heavy laser better is because although it is very useful and plenty powerful regularly, the designers did not make it very balanced, with low accuracy. IMO its a powerful sniper gun, not what it is originally

[[NKF]]

But on a soldier with all the right stats, the plain vanilla heavy laser really does make an impressive weapon. It's just slow. Hence why it's better used for sniping than for front line combat.

 

- NKF

Edited December 9, 2006 by NKF

[Exo2000]

Which is what I use it for - as a support weapon, my H-P wielding Rookies take point and crouch, spotting for the snipers who invariably rain aimed plasma and laser fire down on your enemies.

 

I only started packing H-Lasers post XComUtil tweaking and realising that Sectopods were quite a bit tougher than I remembered.

 

(With the XCU tweaks they're just a tiny bit more powerful than the Heavy Plasma, but still lack the automatic fire, so it's quite balanced, as they're about as accurate. The H-P is more effective in short range situations where accuracy is of little concern (woo burstfire!) and is still more effective at dropping aliens than the Heavy Laser because of the damage type handling, but the Heavy Lasers are an invaluable tool when one is faced with Terror units such as Sectopods.)

[Shotgunner]

I perosanlly think the heavy laser is one of the better weapons...well, once you have it buffed by XComUtil . Seriously, if you resupply your Plasma clips and weapons from ground assaults(like I do) the Heavy Laser(the plain or XComUtil H-L) is rather well.

[Bullet-Tooth Tony]

Heavy Lasers are an invaluable tool when one is faced with Terror units such as Sectopods.

Well, maybe against Sectopods because of their tough armor, but against all other 2x2 units Laser Rifle is better. LR auto-shots miss them noticeably less (you get "bonus" hits that should have missed, but still hit the unit's other tile). So, there's Heavy Laser's 1 (aimed) or 3 (snap) shots against up to 7 per turn (2 Auto + 1 snap) with Laser Rifle. So I don't see a reason to choose Heavy Laser over Laser Rifle. Where LR needs more damage, you are able to just place more hits and thus still do more damage than HL.

[[NKF]]

It's a good weapon (I'm talking about the plain vanilla heavy laser), but it has too many bad qualities mixed in.

 

In contrast, compare it to the laser pistol. On first impression, most players will immediately dismiss it because it's got horrible accuracy(!!!) and relatively pathetic damage compared to the plasma pistol. The accuracy looks even worse when it's put in the hands of a 45 accuracy soldier. It quickly becomes the worst weapon in the world, second only to the basic pistol (and those who know me will know my stance on this comment - but that's for another thread of discussion).

 

But then you learn how the damage model works (trust me, if you haven't, you'll really benefit from it), and you couple it in with the weapon's good qualities like its size, ammo restraints, grip type and especially its speed. Mix all the these and it suddenly becomes a tour de force on its own. Stick it in the hand of your best sharpshooter - or second best if you're a stickler for having a sure-hit sniper - and you'll be amazed.

 

Now let me shift to the other side of the argument, and use that last comment again. The heavy laser in the arms of a very well trained soldier can go miles.

 

The laser rifle on the other hand is more popular because you can toss it into the hands of any Joe off the street and expect fair results. The heavy plasma over compensates for bad stats. The laser pistol - eh, it varies. The heavy laser on the other hand is a connoisseur weapon.

 

However, I hate to say it, from my previous campaigns, I've often chosen a laser tank over the heavy laser myself. Yes, yes, I know all the disadvantages a tank brings to combat. But just thinks of the advantages to even this up and the birds will start chirping again; the sun will rise; the flowers will grow and all is well in the world again. It's just a weapon I use in small quantities (i.e. 1 - 2).

 

Still, think about it. Isn't it so much more rewarding to beat up the enemy with this brick of a weapon that fights you at every turn compared to using a weapon that boosts your skills? Eh, maybe I'm alone on this.

 

- NKF

Edited December 11, 2006 by NKF

[Robo Dojo 58]

Hmm. Heavy laser sniper, or rocket launcher?

Heavy plasma sniper, or rocket launcher?

 

Sorry guys, daddy just doesn't love you any more.

[Shotgunner]

The only advantage the Rocket Launcher has is the variety of munitions it fires. This is also a drawback as a REALLY bad shot(one that hits within a few squares from your troops) could very well kill anyone nearby.....something that you do not have to worry aobut with the Heavy Laser.

 

Forgive me if I misunderstood your comment, Robo Dojo 58 .

[Robo Dojo 58]

Oh, no problem. I do find that heavy rockets is the only variety I need anyway.

 

Yes, friendly fire is a concern. But even an average rookie kneeling down and using aimed shot can hit 80%+ accuracy no problem. Such shots miss by a few tiles at the worst. Rocket soldiers should use aimed shot anyway; since the weapon only needs one shot that's not a problem. The explosive radius means you can aim at a bigger target nearby, and still hit the guy you wanted down. Just don't fire with friendlies directly in front of you!

 

It's not hard to catch aliens at a distance if you make yourself a level playing field, if you catch my drift.

 

I don't find lasers useless. Not by a long shot. I always keep my pointmen geared with lasers, both for UFO assaults and saving valuable rockets. It's just that, when a soldier in power armor only needs 3-4 tiles to be perfectly safe from a hi-ex rocket(directly in front, which is often where they shoot), it's kind of hard to go wrong with them.

[Shotgunner]

true...as long as you dont get your "rocket boy" mind controlled.

[Tsereve]

With liberal use of Blaster Bomb Snipers, I find Sectopods relatively easy without lasers of any kind...even when I'm still using a Skyranger, I arm 4 of my 14 soldiers with BB's, and pretty much just have the rest of them act as scouts

 

With any luck, my BB's never get spotted, so they can't be PSId.

Edited December 13, 2006 by Tsereve

[Kirill]

I remember superhuman games where units were psied w/o being spotted.

[Zombie]

The aliens know the exact position and location of all your troops from the first turn. If they have Psi abilities, they go after the unit with the lowest psi skills first and then go to the next lowest for each additional soldier. (They are oblivious to tanks though). I proved all of this a while back at the StrategyCore forums. Your best course of action is to give your highest psi soldier the Rocket/Blaster Launcher as the weaker solders act as psi-decoys.

 

- Zombie

[[NKF]]

Just stating the obvious solution here:

 

Consider these three points. With the blaster launcher you're going to be keeping the operator in the Skyranger most of the time. Remember that rearming any weapon only costs 15 TUs regardless of where the ammunition comes from. And finally, the aliens cannot shoot a weapon that's not loaded - and haven't got any 'pick stuff up off the floor' subroutines to speak of.

 

Roll these together, and bam, you have a soldier carrying just a blaster launcher and no ammunition standing on top of the equipment pile in the Skyranger. You then only have to load the rocket on the same turn you wish to use it. Now, if the soldier is mind controlled, at least the worst that could happen is that you'd get clubbed to death with an empty rocket launcher. Luckily, melee commands for most objects that are accessable by you or the AI have been removed, so this never happens.

 

To extend this to mobile blaster launcher/rocket launcher units, have someone act as a rocket packmule follow the soldiers with the rocket launcher around the battlefield and throw rockets over as necessary.

 

- NKF

Edited September 3, 2007 by NKF
Corrected spelling errors from 9 months ago. Woo!

[Robo Dojo 58]

To extend this to mobile blaster launcher/rocket launcher units, have someone act as a rocket packmule follow the soldiers with the rocket launcher around the battlefield and throw rockets over as necessary.

Who needs mules? Everybody with rockets gets a rocket launcher! 5 launchers, 15-20 rockets. That's how I roll. The total loadout is cheaper than a single heavy plasma, too!

 

Yeah, PSI can be a pain for your rocket troops in those first PSI missions. But after a while you can weed out the weak ones (since they get tagged first), and use them to "sponge" up all the bad vibes for the rest of your squad. By sheer cooincedence, they also make excellent scouts and cannon fodder. Did I mention that with rockets, you only need a general idea of where the sniper came from?

 

Another option is to drop your weapons every turn. You lose reaction fire, and it is tedious. But that's not really a bad thing when rockets are involved. Oh, how those snap shot rockets have cost me... so much death.

Edited December 13, 2006 by Robo Dojo 58

[Shotgunner]

One flaw with your "fire and forget" idea Robo - if the alien sniper is on, say the third floor or roof, and you fire at the ground floor - well, nuff said. Bottom line is that your idea is effective, as long as you are aware of the risk of mind control. However, for your first few ground assaults this idea works rather well.

[SaintD]

Yeah, PSI can be a pain for your rocket troops in those first PSI missions. But after a while you can weed out the weak ones (since they get tagged first), and use them to "sponge" up all the bad vibes for the rest of your squad. By sheer cooincedence, they also make excellent scouts and cannon fodder. Did I mention that with rockets, you only need a general idea of where the sniper came from?

 

Another option is to drop your weapons every turn. You lose reaction fire, and it is tedious. But that's not really a bad thing when rockets are involved. Oh, how those snap shot rockets have cost me... so much death.

 

If you don't load the launchers it's unlikely a mind controlled unit will have enough TU to do the alien random dance, load and fire on you in one turn.

 

I have been known to turn my troops to face away from likely aliens if they are the one with the launcher and I don't want them reaction firing.

 

I also find a rocket on the ground floor often causes second story snipers to drop to the ground through holes in the floor. So even a rocket on the wrong floor can be pretty effective against snipers you don't have a certian bead on.

 

-D

[Robo Dojo 58]

One flaw with your "fire and forget" idea Robo - if the alien sniper is on, say the third floor or roof, and you fire at the ground floor - well, nuff said.

I probably shouldn't mention this since it's kind of cheating, but rockets can shoot upward through floors. It shouldn't be possible. But if you aim upwards, near your troop, and shoot upwards, the rocket will connect with the floor tile of the next floor. The game calculates the direct hit as happening on that floor, so the explosion takes place there, straight through the floor tile.

 

Explosions only happen on one elevation at a time, so it won't hurt your troops either.

 

If you don't like the taste of that, shoot a rocket at the outside of the second level floor, and wipe it out too. Leave no trace of building behind. (that's why I keep 15-20 rockets! ) That teaches those building snipers a lesson. If that isn't enough, then wipe out the ceiling as well.

 

You see, before I had this strategy where every soldier focuses fire on any alien I spot until it dies. Even if it means having four troops drill a path through two buildings for the fifth guy to make a killing blow. Have you ever done that to save a valuable veteran?

 

That's when I realized, rockets let one troop do all of that in a single shot! Now, I don't even bother with treading a treacherous hedge maze or farmhouse anymore. I just flatten it to reveal everything at once(corpses), as there's really no downside. Gear doesn't get destroyed on the initial death, and craters usually don't need another rocket. Just watch out for PSI and panic attacks, those will wipe you out fast, especially before you get power armor. Personal armor and heavy cannons seem to get along well enough, though.

Edited December 14, 2006 by Robo Dojo 58

[[NKF]]

Actually, the aliens do know how to reload and shoot an empty rocket launcher. The dance doesn't always happen right away.

 

The rocket mule idea was that because the mule doesn't have a launcher, and the rocket launcher operator doesn't have any rockets, the aliens won't be able to use the rockets if they mind control either unit. Another big plus is that the launcher operator does not have to worry about being encumbered if he or she is weak (the mule on the other hand is another matter) . The mule just drops rockets (or possibly creates a whole stack of rockets at various stations around the map where applicable) or throws the rockets to the rocket soldier as they are needed. Just in time rockets - so to say.

 

Dropping the launcher certainly works - this method just separates the rockets from the launcher until they are needed.

 

Carrying your own rockets works fine, but if you know there are psionic units about and you're unsure about your own troops susceptibility to psi attacks, it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

- NKF

[Shotgunner]

I always do this with HE packs and grenades ( toss from the back lines to the front, THEN prime & throw them ) but I never really, to be honest, thought of doing this with rockets until you guys started posting in this topic.

 

I'll be the first to admit the rocket's awesome power, and is only second to the HE Packs(especially when using XComUtil) but the rockets, being a large item, I never thought would be worth the tme and effort to have 2 man rocket teams. Hmm.....perhaps I need to rethink my opinions of the rocket launcher.

[Adun_Toridas]

1. No elerium is needed to produce them.

 

2. Respectable FirePower... moreover, with the Laser Rifle you can make 2 aimed shots in one turn wih respectable accuracy.

 

3. Easy to mantain.

 

4. Did i mention elerium saving?

[Shotgunner]

Adun, this assumes you are not using XComUtil to buff the lasers, as using XComUtil requires E-115 for the laser rifles(laser pistols can still be manufactured right away).

[Adun_Toridas]

Yep, only pure and original Xcom is what i am using XD

[Shotgunner]

Fisrt off, I hope everyone's Christmas and New Year's was good!

 

Second, the "pure" X-COm lasers are probably one of the best wapons, IMO. JUST for the fact of no E-115 required.

[Robo Dojo 58]

I don't really know why I never seem to have a problem with E-115. I guess only raiding landed UFOs really makes that much of a difference. After all, the difference between shooting down the first 4 small UFOs, and attacking landed ships is easily 150-200 E-115.

[Adun_Toridas]

but if you mens die frequently (superhuman mode)... i guess some of the elerium is spended quickly in flying suits...

[[Blehm 98]]

well, i usually use all power suits, and only a couple flying suits, because flying suits require a ridiculous amount of elerium...

 

a good elerium saving tip is to build mostly power suits

[Robo Dojo 58]

Just some wasteful numbers to consider, maybe:

One battleship load of E115(200) will fuel 12.5 flying suits, enough to fit half a squad. It could have instead made 40 power suits, enough to outfit two avengers.

 

Or, to look at it the best way:

You can only lose 3 flying suit guys on a small UFO (50 E115) and not lose out on elerium. However, you can lose out on up to 10 power suit soldiers and still make it ahead.

 

Sometimes less is more. In the case of power vs. flying armor, you better have a good reason to spend the extra cost to give someone flying.

 

If you want to save even MORE Elerium on armor, craft only one set. Using the soldier's menu, you can adjust the armor being worn IN FLIGHT. Many starting bases eventually end up with 2 dropships. Just swap the armor from one dropship to the other, and BAM! Your armor is pulling double duty.

 

But that's getting off topic. Uh... Lasers drool, rockets rule. Everyone that is scouting or a PSI-sponge gets a laser rifle. I mostly use them to cut out vision or rocket paths. The rest get heavy weapons, and a choice of laser pistols or rifles.

 

Also, direct fire troops (such as with lasers) take a LONG time to train. When you lose one, it takes a long time to build up the next suitable replacement. Rocket rookies are practically snipers right off the shelf- thanks to kneeling, +115% aimed rocket accuracy, and a BIG area to aim at- making troops easy to train, cheap to equip, and replacing them is simple.

Edited January 8, 2007 by Robo Dojo 58

[[NKF]]

Yes, enough high explosives in any form can solve everything! Well, in this game at least.

 

Just keep in mind that the more powerful the explosive, the less experience you'll be able to extract from the aliens. Which is where the pin-pricks from a laser rifle or laser pistol come in handy (or for hardcore drills, the standard pistol).

 

As for the elerium issue - simple. This is what I do to tackle the issue. For the bread-and-butter ground troops I have them kitted in personal armour. It's difficult to run out of alien alloys and the money component is fairly easy to come by thanks to the aliens. I use Power Suits for the veteran ground troops, and use one or two Flying Suits tops per troop carrier for the aerial rocket sniper or plasma rifle sniper. You don't need to be able to fly all the time, although it is very handy.

 

This saves me plenty of elerium that I rarely have to go on excessive elerium hunts at the elerium farm to keep myself in good supply. Plus, the biggest chunk of my air fleet consists of plasma beam Interceptors. And if I do run out of elerium, it's not a problem as I'm mostly using old-tech technology and captured equipment. This allows me to strike a good balance of having just enough elerium for the least amount of effort.

 

But that's just me.

 

- NKF

[Cornuthaum]

Except for the first 2-3 months, how do you run out of elerium? In my current game I had to build an extra general store in one of my radar bases just to dump the elerium there (training troops from three bases by intercepting every supply ship)

 

Unless you're on some "I must not take that big juicy hunk of elerium that's sitting right there and is full of floaters" challenge, I see no reason why you should run out of E-115. In fact, getting Zrbite is far harder (for me, at least)

 

And keep in mind that three supply ships supply enough e-115 for one avenger (18+ 2htank/FBL) with fully kitted out soldiers (except for medikits and psiamps xD)

[[NKF]]

As soon as an alien base is created, your Elerium woes are over. Completely. All you need to then do is leave the base alone and milk the supply ships for all they are worth and you can concentrate on actually playing the game rather than worry about where the next chip of elerium is going to come from. As mentioned in Sun Tzus The Art of War - one bushel of the enemies rice is worth ten of your own. Or something along those lines.

 

- NKF

 

Just as an aside: The reason Zrbite is harder to get is because the IBA's tend to blow up. A lot. Not to mention they're often clusted close together in a number of USOs, so one blows up, all of the "powered" IBA's lose their power source. The IBA battlescape object is also set to explode easily if it's damaged, so there's no possibility of a smash-and-grab.

 

Zrbite is also generated in the second part of colonies (notice the gold bar at the base of the purple sphere IBA's in the "theatre" in the room above the catwalk that looks into the synonium device room? Those're zrbite pods.The flesh coloured steel tanks that you often get in corners are also IBAs and may even contain Zrbite pods). Unfortunately, you have to clear all the aliens in the second level if you want to capture any of the Zrbite. Actually, I can't remember, but are those purple globes volatile? The canisters are, but if the globes aren't volatile, then you could do the old faithful smash-and-grab technique to steal any zrbite pods that may be there. Correct me if my recollection is inaccurate. Alternately, stunning an ally and throwing them "into" the tile works too. But considering how powerful thermal shok bombs are - prepare for a long night.

Edited January 9, 2007 by NKF

[Shotgunner]

Slightly off topic - I usually provide Flying Suits for my Colonels or higher, Power Armor for Sergeants, and Personal Armor for the Rookies/Squaddies. This way the more expensive stuff protects the more valueable soldiers. Also, the "Flying Commanders", as I call them, tend to survive when flying.

[Snakeman]

I go nuts on flying suits if given the chance. I prefer as much mobility as I can get, and its not always handy or wise to use a few of our best in them to say, cut holes in ceilings and stuff to make shortcuts in various structures. I'm sure if X-COM were real and I were in charge of it, they'd drum me out as soon as they realized how I squander everyone's cash

 

Lasers are fairly prominent in my lineup though since most alien stuff I can get off the corpses, I go in with fairly minimal plasma/blaster backup. Perhaps just 2 plasma rifles and 2 heavy plasma handlers.

Edited January 10, 2007 by Snakeman

[Shotgunner]

Besides, like I said before - why make the plasma weapons(pistol, rifle and H.plasma) when the aliens are so nice to leave them on the ground for you after they die?

[[NKF]]

Build heavy plasma ammo? Preposterous!

 

Well, there are the plasma rifles, which have a following. Their ammo tends to be finite and becomes very scarce later on in the game. If you want to continue using them, you'll need to construct more ammo.

 

Blaster launcher ammo is also at a premium if you regularly fire them off in ground combat. The small launcher is another that you may want to construct ammo for. Normally you'll never use all the stun bombs that you accumulate over the missions. There just aren't that many aliens you want captured. However, if you make use of the small launcher as an anti-large-terror-unit weapon, the ammo can get used up very fast.

 

And alien grenades. If you use them a lot, you'll want to build a couple. Of course, there are always the high explosives. They just go half as far. That's all.

 

But a bit of regular harvesting and laser use does wonders for your supply problems. Leaving you with much more free time to concentrate on other things.

 

- NKF

Edited January 23, 2007 by NKF

[Zombie]

As far as I'm concerned, manufacturing any kind of ammo is a waste of time, money, resources and valuable engineer time. During my alien base smash 'n grab training missions, I make exclusive use of the Laser Rifle with good success. Anything that a Laser Rifle can't handle, a single Blaster Bomb will fix. Over a couple hundred alien base missions, I easily amass a huge stockpile of Blaster Bombs, Stun Bombs and Alien Grenades: enough to satisfy even the biggest squad. And limiting my usage of those weapons helps to conserve what I have.

 

Of course, nobody is stupid enough to train via this method, but if you keep in mind to recover more loot than you use during each mission, everything should work out fine - especially with the single shot weapons and launchers. And when you start to run low on rare ammo (such as the Blaster Bomb) it's time to visit a battleship and/or an alien base to replenish supplies.

 

- Zombie

[Shotgunner]

Exactly my way of thinking Zombie. Let the enemy supply you with the means of their own destruction.

[[NKF]]

We're all on the save wavelength here. If the aliens can supply it, you don't need to build it. However, excessive use and becoming overly reliant on any particular alien tech will eventually force building the ammo if this lush lifestyle is to continue.

 

I mean, it's easy to to get into the trap of firing off all your blaster launcher rounds on every mission. You'll eventually spiral into a situation where your demand is greater than your supply. This path eventaully leads to ruin and lots of fancy ornaments.

 

Still, it's amazing what you can do if you take time to know your starting weapons a lot better (and more importantly, learn what they do not work against). When you're comfortable defeating the aliens day in and day out with anything at your disposal, you'll be all that much better off. Besides, there are few things with the exception of a superhuman sectopod that cannot be solved with laser rifles, large rockets or high explosives! Before you know it, you'll have a huge surplus of the more exotic alien equipment.

 

- NKF

[Patrick1994]

Lasers - Simple Weapons

 

Did you ever read the little label xcom enginners had to put on the laser guns?

 

"WARNING:THIS LASER IS FOR USE WITH KILLING ONLY"

 

well that has nothing to do with the topic

 

BUT! laser are good guns in the beginning of the game , i like them because they dont need ammo , but i moved on to Heavy Plasma and Plasma Weaponry

[Shotgunner]

Most people move on, but you got to admit that the cost to manufacture vs the cost to sell laser weapons is another bonus to lasers

[Vagabond]

People... manufacture heavy plasma ammo?

 

Lemme say this again.

 

People... MANUFACTURE... HEAVY PLASMA AMMO?!

 

Anyhow, on to the topic. I love the laser rifle. It kept my troops hearty and hale during them missions. They can handle anything the aliens decide to throw at you. Especially the Sectoids. I love it everytime their big head gets a hit!

 

And also, it's a nice weapon to chuck into a fourty percent accuracy rookie. He then has less chance of hitting that poor crouching soldier, located at his two o'clock. I seriously cannot fathom how anyone can make such a gigantic mis-shot!

Edited February 25, 2007 by Vagabond

[[NKF]]

Heh, heavy plasma ammo is the one resource in this game that's almost on par with alien alloys.

 

It's a good indication that things aren't going very well for the player if it gets to the point where heavy plasma ammo has to be built. Still, it is possible to imagine a scenario where a player would have to manufacture heavy plasma ammo. It would have to be a very badly mismanaged game. Let's see, I imagine that:

• For guns the player would have to use heavy plasmas almost exclusively, and only with autoshots. All the time. From far away. Always. They are used liberally for clearing terrain, obstructions, etc.
  
• Loot is destroyed indiscriminately with explosives or secondary explosions from cyberdiscs.
  
• UFOs aren't recovered on a regular basis.
  
• The player frequently swaps partial clips for fresh clips. Want to have a full clip at all times. You never know.
  

I'm sure there are many other wasteful strategies that can be employed to the extreme.

 

- NKF

Edited February 26, 2007 by NKF

[Vagabond]

Or being a victim of that unfortunate ammo disappearing bug.

 

<cries>

 

But then again, a full clip is long enough to last me a battle. Thirty one rounds. I can't imagine shooting that all off, unless I decide to do a demolition.

[Robo Dojo 58]

It's not as bad as you think NKF. It doesn't really take much to run out of heavy plasma clips. All it takes is:

- A large squad of heavy plasma troops. More often than not an avenger will have more X-Com than alien forces.

- Most troops fire at least once in the mission. Not impossible if your troops don't have great accuracy, and you don't use dedicated snipers.

- Some-many aliens get off a shot. Not unreasonable if you send out low reaction scouts that you don't care about.

- You don't bother to unload clips at the end of the mission. Keep in mind that unloading partial clips isn't really a strategy, more as exploiting an inconsistency between loaded and unloaded clips.

 

These aren't rookie mistakes, any average player can succumb to it over a successful campaign. Doing that however, it's amazing how quickly you can run out of heavy plasma ammo! It's not losing 10 clips for 200 shots, it usually comes down to losing 10 clips for 10 shots.

[Zombie]

These aren't rookie mistakes, any average player can succumb to it over a successful campaign.

Really? I consider this a major tactical oversight and serious mismanagement of resources. Even a complete noob to the game should learn that equipping an entire squad with only one type of weapon is just asking for trouble. :wink1:

 

I suppose the main reason why some people dive right into researching (and using) the Heavy Plasma immediately is because of the romace. It has a large clip size, excellent accuracy, high damage potential, an auto shot and is light to carry. However, Heavy Plasmas are rare at the beginning of the game. There may only be one alien on a mission carrying it, and it usually only has one clip (loaded in the weapon nonetheless). If you don't kill the alien before it can shoot, you've just lost a clip. Doing that on a constant basis early on will create shortages guaranteed. So why set yourself up for failure?

 

Later in the game, all aliens will be carrying the Heavy Plasma and at least two clips. (Medics usually carry 3 clips). By then, if you are still having ammo shortages, something is seriously wrong. In a normal tactical mission, the aliens never go through a whole clip of HP ammo. You are either not shooting back (which is suicide) or are employing indescriminate use of high explosives to kill aliens/clear landscape.

 

More scenarios to consider:

• Aborting. You don't recover anything unless you finish the mission or haul the loot back to your transport.
  
• Loss of primary assault base due to alien attack.
  
• Selling HP clips.
  

It only makes sense to slowly phase in HP useage to prevent shortages. Use it to fortify a squad early on for that extra kick in killing power. Then slowly phase out the use of human weapons. For me, the Laser Rifle works fine for almost all applications. When more power is needed, the Heavy Laser is a fine replacement if you can forgive the loss of the auto shot. I rarely even use the Heavy Plasma until my troops have recovered a significant stockpile of ammo.

 

- Zombie