What To Manufacture For Selling? (and Get $$)

[johniemi]

Hi, first post here.

 

I'm trying to play X-com/ufo1 on my old laptop and not resort to cheating or editor use. Can anyone tell me what are the best items to manufacture and then sell for profit? I saw this on the internet but there's something I don't understand;

 

Please see the Strategy Guide at: http://www.xcomufo.com/usg.html

 

1) use CTRL+F or your web browser's "find" or "search" utility to search this string;

"X-COM Profitability study"

 

2) then read throught the table and then read this:

 

As you can see, Fusion Ball Launchers are the winner, narrowly edging out Laser Cannons.  A profit can be made early in the game on motion scanners, however.

 

But how in the world can that be?!? Fusion ball launcher costs 242K to make and sells for 281K... motion scanners cost 34K to make and sell for 45K. And these are supposed to be the most profitable items, when the table shows items like:

 

Alien Alloys; 3K to produce. Resale value: 6K (that's 100% profit!)

Laser Pistol; 8K to produce. Resale value: 20K (over 100% profit!!)

 

So my question is; what am I missing here? Is the Strategy Guide faulty or is there something I haven't thought? Also, Alien alloys and Laser pistol don't require elerium or anything to make so in that sense they seem ok choices and give more profit than the products stated in the guide.

 

Comments?

 

-John

[[NKF]]

There was actually a good discussion regarding this somewhere on the forum (or on X-Com Tactical Command). Unfortunately I don't remember which thread it was in. Someone will have it , I'm sure.

 

---

 

There are various factors to include here. Production cost, sale price, production time, materials, engineers allocated to the project and how much workshop space the item required for the build (i.e. how many less engineers the project will have).

 

A fusion ball launcher can be built in 400 hours and require 6 units of workshop space - alloys are built in 100 hours and requires 10 units workshop space .

 

A laser cannon can be built in 300 with 6 workshop spaces.

 

A motion scanner can be built in 220 hours and only needs 4 spaces.

 

Each hour an engineer puts in counts towards 1 hour of the build time.

 

Okay, my math's has become a bit rusty, but bear with me for a bit. I'm bound to mess up somewhere. But let's look at the profit per hour. Let's assume a 100 engineer workforce, and a batch of 20 units, each.

 

---

 

Fusion ball launcher:

 

Item Value: $281, 100 - $242,000 = $39, 100

Value per engineer = $39,100 / 400 hours = $97.75 (i.e how much value an engineer puts into the making of the item per hour)

Total time required for entire batch = 20 * 400 = 8000 hours

Actual time by engineers assigned = 8000hrs / 94 engineers = 85 hours

Profit = Profit per engineer * workforce * batch size = $97.75 * 94 * 20 = $183,770.00

Profit per hour = $183, 770 / 85 hours = $2,162

 

(remember, workforce takes into account the space required to build the item. So 94 comes from 100 engineer team - 6 workspace. )

 

 

But wait, there's more, each fusion ball launcher requires 1 alloys (except the first in the batch, due to a manufacturing code error).

 

Alloys

 

Item value: $6, 500 - $3,000 = $3, 500

Value per engineer = $3,500 / 100 = $35.00

Batch time = 20 * 100 = 2000 hours

Actual Time = 2000/90 engineers = 22 hours

Profit = $35.00 * 90 * 20 = $63, 000

Profit/ph= $63,000 / 22 = $2863.63...

 

Luckily for us, we needn't build the alloys! But that's still $6,500 less profit per fusion ball launcher. So if we had 20 fusion ball launchers, we should be netting $782,000. But including the value of the alloys (20 - 1) * $6, 500 = $123,500, we're really only getting $782,000 - 123,500 = $658, 500 value out of it.

 

(the -1 was for the first launcher in the batch).

 

But again, it's not so bad since we usually don't need to pay for the raw material, after all.

 

---

 

Let's have a look at the motion scanner.

Same 20 batch build, 100 engineer workforce.

 

Item value = $ 45, 600 - 34,000 = $11, 600

Value per engineer = $11, 600 / 220 = $52.2727..

Batch time = 220 *20 = 4400 hours

Actual time = 4400 / 96 = 45.8 hours

Profit = $52.27.. * 96 * 20 = $101, 236. 36..

Profit/ph = $101,236.36.. / 45.8 = $2, 210.40

 

---

 

Just for comparison, the laser cannon

 

Item value = $ 211,000 - $182,000 = $29,000

Value per engineer = $29,000 / 300 = $96.67

Batch time = 300 * 20 = 6000 hrs

Actual time = 6000 / 94 = 63 hrs

Profit = $96.67 * 94 * 20 = $181, 733.33

Profit/ph = $181,733.33 / 63 = $2, 884.67

 

---

 

Hmm, odd, I must have a calculation error there somewhere. The alloys appear to be pulling a much better profit than the fusion ball launcher... oh well.

 

By the way, these values will change depending on the size of the workforce.

 

- NKF

 

edit: Now that I think about it, I can't remember how I came up with the profit and profit per hour formula. I wrote my formulas down in an excel spreadsheet to help automate the calculations for me, but at the moment, it doesn't really make much sense (to me). Sorry folks, this is what happens when you write down something, leave it alone for a while, and then get back to it at a much later date.

Edited August 25, 2005 by NKF

[j'ordos]

I guess you mean this thread: http://www.xcomufo.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7344&hl=

Although I'm sure you already told him everything (and more ) he wanted to know

edit: so, is the first item to manufacture free? Zombie said it was the case in the PS version, but what about the PC version?

Edited August 25, 2005 by j'ordos

[[NKF]]

Yes, the first fusion ball launcher is free and uses no alloys on the PC version.

 

You can actually duplicate this free item for all builds. Take an Avenger, for example. Start a 0 item build. After you've started it, build one and then assign your engineers. It'll cost you nothing. No costs, no material, only the build time.

 

There's also a related bug connected to this. If you first assign a batch of any item with any build size but 0, you immediately pay everything for the very first item. That makes sense, but if you then have second thoughts and cancel the build (or any batch for that matter), you'll not get back what you put in. This is very bad as you'll have just thrown away some money and material. So you can use the previous method of putting in a 0 item build and then assigning the batch size and engineers later and not pay for the first item. If you cancel it then, you will not lose any money.

 

Don't credit me for this. I didn't discover it.

 

- NKF

Edited August 25, 2005 by NKF

[MikeTheRed]

Hi XCOMies,

 

I'm new here, but I've done a detailed review of XCOM profitability on my own.

 

If you want to use that "first new" buggity, that's your choice. I haven't heard of it before and I wouldn't want to do it; XCOM is too easy even if not cheating. I want to work within the reality

 

I took up XCOM again after having played it years ago - and also honing a lot of data analysis skills. I came across a faq by Kuo-Sheng (Kasey) Chang "Updated May-01/95" (on gamefaqs.com IIRC) that has a section 5.4 which says that Fusion Ball Launchers are the most profitable item. This is NOT TRUE because FBLs need 1 alien alloy each, even if the US v1.4 XCOM does NOT say AAs are needed, on the Manufacture popup. (Watch your AAs - they decrease by 1 for each FBL made.) Oddly, Chang's FAQ 5.4 does say that an AA is needed, but Shaffer's analysis does NOT figure it into the economics. This makes Laser Cannons the clear winner. See the spreadsheet I will post so you can see the profitability for anything you want, including adjusting your actual situation (number of engineers and workshops) to see what's best. Although it's all pretty simple, really... rarely does the number change anything.

 

In checking, I see that others here have talked about the AA issue. I can confirm that it does take 1 AA for every FBL. Just watch your AAs while you make FBLs. So, Laser Cannons are the winner. I'll post a spreadsheet up soon.

 

And, by the way...

 

I am FRICKING AMAZED to see so many folks so into XCOM, a game that is a decade old. WTH is it, 320x200 graphics? . But I've been playing it to the ground the past 3 weeks.

 

Mike, Ph.D., Atlanta

[MikeTheRed]

Ok - how do I upload something to this site? Or does it allow it? I don't see any particular links for uploading. I can always do it to gamefaqs.com or something, I suppose.

[[stewart]]

I'll say it yet again, please refer to the "When to stock-up on Engineers thread". I did a study of a different kind which was quite enlightening.

 

Perhaps J'ordos will post the link shortly.

[[stewart]]

What do you want to upload? A saved game? There are special forums for that.

 

Jordos.

[MikeTheRed]

A spreadsheet, at the moment. Just where might I post it?

 

I searched on "When to stock up on engineers" and got a search error message. Linkage silvous plait?

[[stewart]]

spreadsheet of what?

 

here is the link.

[[Blehm 98]]

if you do more options on fast reply or click add reply you can upload stuff

[MikeTheRed]

Roger that, both of you - checking your thread Stewart, and going over my spreadsheet to make sure it's clear to attack directly here, blehm.

 

I am SO amazed that XCOM is still so loved!

[[stewart]]

Heard of Xenocide?

 

 

We could use a guy called RedKnight

[[Blehm 98]]

hmmmm, there would have to be a way to fix his name so that we can tell the difference, i've already mistaken one for the other twice today...

[MikeTheRed]

Being a n00b, I have no idea who had similar names. I've never been here before.

 

Are you subtly suggesting I should drastically change my name? hehe. I always can. This is a handle I use on many sites, though. Hardly a real unusual one, though.

 

Attached find... well, find my attachment, for lack of better words. It should speak for itself. Excel 2000 spreadsheet; I can make .pdf output next week if anyone wants.

 

Let me go look into Xenocide, Stew...

XCOM_Profits.xls

[[stewart]]

Nah, Mike's a fine name; keep it.

[MikeTheRed]

PX intrigues me, Sir Stewart. I'll be looking into it.

 

I don't have lots of time, but would like to think I have some insight. We'll see what we'll see. The 'now' for this evening is drawing to a close, and it wraps up the weekend with it - plans within plans. Then the next business week hits. Expect a reply by Thursday at the latest.

 

I've also taken XCOM SOLDIER.DAT files apart and gleaned many things from them but, seeing as there's a whole nother project going on, perhaps not many folks want to see details taken from that?

[[NKF]]

If you're interested in the game files, check out the notes Hatfarm has compiled from all over. There's a subforum, and the notes are on: http://www.stonepool.com/xcom/hacking/

 

Understanding unitref.dat, the file containing the temporary battlescape units, is a long but slow moving pet project of mine.

 

--

 

Yep, the laser cannon is indeed one of the most profitable items to build.

 

- NKF

[MikeTheRed]

If you're interested in the game files, check out the notes Hatfarm has compiled from all over. There's a subforum, and the notes are on: http://www.stonepool.com/xcom/hacking/

 

Understanding unitref.dat, the file containing the temporary battlescape units, is a long but slow moving pet project of mine.

 

--

 

Yep, the laser cannon is indeed one of the most profitable items to build.

 

- NKF

Frickin A, that's what I've been doing the past two weeks of my life. There it is in black and white. Give me some time to compare my notes on SOLDIER.DAT to dat stuff dere.

 

I wouldn't call the Laser Cannon "one of the most profitable items". I'd call it THE most profitable item.

[[stewart]]

PX intrigues me, Sir Stewart. I'll be looking into it.

 

 

PX; I like that.

[MikeTheRed]

It's an easy play - crystal

 

For a little visual f/x tweak, use the greek lower case rho and an 'uppercased' lower case Chi. Compare e.g. http://www.scbd.connectfree.co.uk/alphabet. the entire effort meant simply to pla with us subconsciously.

[MikeTheRed]

If you're interested in the game files, check out the notes Hatfarm has compiled from all over. There's a subforum, and the notes are on: http://www.stonepool.com/xcom/hacking/

 

FWIW here's my notes - before checking that page - on SOLDIER.DAT. In case anyone's interested

XCOM_Soldier.Dat_Notes.xls

[MikeTheRed]

Right, I've seen quite a bit more than he's seen, as my ss shows. I'll put together my thoughts and have them to him in approx. a week.

[[NKF]]

You know, we're going slightly off course, but I don't mind as long as we don't drag it on too much.

 

Reading some of your notes, I see you need to understand:

 

1. How the Geoscape tokens in loc.dat work - so you know who is assigned to what ship and what base. Hatfarm's notes has all the information you need to identify what's what. Craft.dat also has a pointer to loc.dat for all the ships, UFOs and bases stored in it. Rather a handy file to know about, eh?

 

2. How experience is earned and how promotions are handed out.

 

Some of my notes on that are on the Ufopaedia wiki:

 

http://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Experience

 

The rate at which experience (for most of the stats, anyway) is given and how much you need to do to get it is inversely proportional with how much skill you already have and how close it is to the maximum level.

 

Promotions are based on existing ranks, and then further consideration is based on how much experience a soldier earned during a battle - which is mainly used as an equalizer.

 

- NKF

Edited August 27, 2005 by NKF

[MikeTheRed]

I've said it once and will say it again, NKF - I'm simply amazed to have run into so many aficianados of what seemed like a forgotten game. But then that's what I get for not surfing more often!

 

I'll peruse your .wiki - when I said that hatfarm missed some stuff, I was indeed thinking, relative to experience (=statistics gained). About the most important thing. I look forward to your insights greatly.

 

I'll either get back to you immediately, or it will take half a week. Got something in the fire.

[MikeTheRed]

NKF - I've finally found some time to look at the Wiki. It's absolutely great! Did you do a lot of that writing? Who's the "unsigned author" of most of it - most anybody, I guess?

 

You're right - there's a lot to see, in hatfarm's notes. Sorry if I went a little overboard about my notes, but it was a labor of love over a couple of weeks, and I did find a few things he didn't. But again, you're right - I wasn't checking other files at all, and they are sometimes important to understanding Soldier.Dat. In any event, there's lots to share ... I'll work with hatfarm or the wiki, to get my info worked into what's already out there.

 

Once again - I am amazed and grateful to find this very large XCOM community, ten years after the fact. And I only just barely chose to replay XCOM over many other oldies I might've chosen. Just goes to show its magnificence. If I can use that word, laugh.

 

P.S. I inadvertently chose the name "RedKnight" initially and caused a lot of confusion re the long-time PX member "red knight". What did I know, being brand new? Anyway, he kindly changed my name to this, at my request. Just saying, in case anybody was wondering.

Edited September 3, 2005 by MikeTheRed

[[NKF]]

I know, I too spent weeks trying to figure out some of the data files from scratch, trying to chisel out a new wheel by myself, so to say.

 

Yes, it's nice to see there's still a fan base for the X-Com games, no matter how many times we've been disappointed in the past. Ignoring the tons of problems we've got with them and how outdated they are now, the X-Com games are still nice games.

 

---

 

The wiki isn't mine, but I have contributed a fair amount to it. It's still in its infancy, and we're still tossing information into it. I can't wait until it's near completion. We just need more contributors to toss in raw information, which we can refine later on.

 

Also the unsigned contributors are just logged off and need to log back on. Either our browsers or the wiki forgets to log us back from time to time, even if we've set it to automatically log in. It pays to check the controls at the top to see if you've been logged out when you start editing a new or existing article.

 

- NKF

Edited September 3, 2005 by NKF

[MikeTheRed]

Thanks for the quick reply NKF - and apologies for taking a week to get back to you.

 

I'll keep an eye on the 'logged on' part of Wikis. But it seems like, some places you might want your sig, like if it's a controversial/questionable addition, where you would want your sig. Other places, you're just adding to known things, and no reason to have your sig clutter the info. Is there a way to turn it on, or off, at will?

 

If we should start a new message thread, say the word.

 

Great to meet you, good sage of X-Com data!