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training, experience counters, and skill point assigned


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#1 yarrow

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 04:53 AM

hello everyone, ufo killers

i have question about soldier stats training an experience counters

after combat you get random number of skill points assigned to your soldier stat
according to PRIMARY actions taken ( 3 => 1-3 random roll, 11+ => 2-6 random roll )

question is, are those random rolls done for each experience counter separately?
what i mean is =>
reaction by reaction experience counter ( one roll )
firing accuracy ( FAcc ) by FAcc experience counter ( another roll )
...
and so on, with other rolls and its respective experience counters

it looks like when i finish mission summary of skill points assigned ( to PRIMARY actions of course )
is the same, only difference is where and how many of that sum goes to specific stat

for little bit of testing this, i have prepared special save,
it was just ordinary save ( 1-st misssion ), just killed all aliens ( yes, i've enjoyed it with pistols and rifles )

than hex-edited ( zeroed all other experience couters )
than set reaction and FAcc experience couters to max possible roll each ( 0xB => 11 dec )

and observed that soldier gained only sum of 2-6 roll
so the more he gained to reaction ( say 4 of 6 ) the less he gained to FAcc ( the rest ), and vice versa

but since there is randomness involved, and probably a lot of it, it is difficult to confirm this to be true or false
hehe => probably a lot of randomness ;)

did anybody tested it more deeply?

yarrow

ps.
why only PRIMARY actions taken into consideration?
only they have separate experience counters

Edited by yarrow, 15 November 2010 - 04:41 PM.


#2 NKF

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Posted 22 October 2010 - 06:11 AM

Primary actions are basically the only direct actions you can take in combat that can raise your stats. They raise both the stats that they are associated with as well as raise all the secondary stats. There are no secondary actions, as such.

From what I understand, it is a random roll for each stat - so even if both firing and reactions were equal in value at the end of the mission, you will get different results if you were to reload and end the mission over and over again.

- NKF
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#3 yarrow

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 05:58 PM

welcome again

recently i had some time to test my little theory and, ... i was wrong
experience is earned independant of each other for primaries

MANY times, repeat, many times my max roll soldiers
( 11+ in reaction, and 11+ firing acc experience counters => roll range 2-6 )

received +6 to firing acc AND +6 to reactions ( sum of 12 )
with average of +4 firing acc and +4 reactions ( sum of 8 )

so ... rolls MUST be done for each primary stat, independant from each other
one roll for each experience counter


now i wonder for secondaries, how they are applied
since there are no experience counters for them ( no separate rolls )

secondaries according to ufopaedia.org
the worse secondary stat is, the fastest it will grow,
and in a stair-step like function


summary of this is
save BEFORE end of mission, if you are training soldiers
and if you dont gain much experience for your favourite soldiers, reload

yes, if too much randomness is involved,
you have no option, but abuse save/load

not convinced yet? imagine this
you train soldier very carefully, spent a lot of time
and what ... gain only +2 firing acc out of 6 possible
thats only 50% of what you would expect by average!!

sh*t happens .... yes, but .... can be reloaded ;)


see you all, and happy experience training
yarrow

ps.
now i understand why some xcom veterans
consider training solders only to 1-3 roll ( 3 actions => can be done with one autoshot !!! )
not to max 2-6 roll ( 11+ actions )

#4 NKF

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 08:53 PM

3 gives you the best amount of experience for the least amount of work.

From my experience, as long as you let everyone exercise their primary actions, their stats will increase gradually. You don't have to aim for maximum stats over 3- 4 missions for example. Let them max out over time naturally.

You also have a lot of soldiers you are going to train, so saving/reloading to get good rolls for all the soldiers can be very time consuming. Just go with what is given - even small increases to stats dramatically alter the performance of the soldiers in combat.

That said, it is worth investing a bit of time to get a few really good soldiers maxed as quickly as you can, as it's easier to train weaker soldiers when there are a few strong soldiers to look after them.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 12 November 2010 - 08:56 PM.

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#5 yarrow

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Posted 15 November 2010 - 05:16 PM

yes, i tend to agree with you NKF, 3 primary actions are best
but only if you take time spent into consideration

if someone does have time ( with right setup it can be reduced slightly )
to do 11+ actions, reward is ( or rather can be, since it is random ) 2 times bigger

i personally train only 1 or 2 soldiers on smaller ufos,
so they can get experience quicker
only on medium or larger ufos, terror sites, bases
i use all soldiers in a mission

i wait to train larger number of soldiers ( more than 4 ), until i know who is worth of training
which in turn is question of mind control immunity ( psi strength 80+ for me ), since it cant be trained

yes i know, they can have some uses
as expendables, base guards, secondary assault team members or even psi decoys
but in the most useful ( or difficult ) missions ( base assaults to me, i love them )
they are less useful to me, than normal, psi immune soldiers
which can face any oponent, psi or no psi


thanks for your replies anyway
yarrow

Edited by yarrow, 15 November 2010 - 05:18 PM.