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#1 Trevelyan

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 12:25 PM

Ok ok, we all know what our fav gun in Xcom is, we all know what we like to make things go "Bewm" So how about we get down to business here and talk about something serious?

What you may ask? Well to be honest, i would say the least talked about and most important stratigies... how to manuver your troops into such a position in which they hold the total advantage. Isn't that the point of the battlescape?

I chose a bad time to create this topic (but i wanted to do so before i forget to do so ;) ) so I will add my own input later.

Things to discuss:
- exiting the ship
- How to deal with psy when you have none
- How to minimize Blaster bomb related losses
- Camping the UFO, How and when
- Entering UFO
- Using flying suits to their full potential
- Alien specific movements
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#2 j'ordos

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 12:44 PM

Exiting: smoke grenade, two if necessary. It helps your survival in the first turns tremendously, especially on Superhuman.
I then usually try to send out my first wave in a radial pattern, away from any possible map edges, and taking full advantage of cover. The Skyranger's landing gear works great for this, I usually keep some men around for support, and a hasty retreat if necessary. :)
If there's another open area to be crossed, I throw some more smoke, just in case. I'd try and keep some small groups, but for some reason I never succeed in that and I always end up sending my soldiers forward on their own :rolleyes:
When an alien's spotted I always try to shoot it first with someone who's not in it's line of sight, or with a grenade from behind a hedge or such :naughty:
Only if all that fails and I'm feeling pretty confident I'll take a direct shot, but most of the time I'll try to retreat the spotter to a safer location. I don't often camp UFO's, but if I do it's mostly with a tank (preferably rocket, unless you've got an entry team ready, I learned that the hard way :whatwhat: )
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#3 NKF

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 01:35 PM

The camping outside the UFO trick is what I use as pre-preparation for UFO entry.

See, if you wait long enough, almost all of the aliens will leave the UFO and leave only the one or two aliens that do not walk about behind. These are normally the ones inside the command room.

How to go about it? Well, my main recommendation is that you should not line up your soldiers in front of the door. That's just demanding an alien grenade (and it makes it easer for the aliens who miss their shots hit an unintended target. One method is to have everyone scatter in a semi-circle around the doorway. Scatter to avoid area effect weapons and so you don't shoot the soldiers in front of you in the back of their heads. Do not line up directly with the door. This sometimes triggers alien movement and they'll come running towards the door. If you have flying suits, also have a few soldiers hover in the air as well.

If done well, the resulting crossfire whenever an alien leaves the ship will be rather impressive - and lethal!

If you're fighting weaker enemies, and it's still rather early in the game, I'd highly recommend using the laser pistols for this strategy. Why? Because reaction shots are not only based off the reaction score, but by a percentage of your remaining time units, also reactions (during any side's off-turn) are always done with snapshots. Laser pistols have the second fastest snap-shots in the game (the best are pistols). So if you have a whole horde of soldiers kneeling outside with laser pistols, the sheer number of shots that will be released can take down practically anything.

Okay, so you can use any weapon you want (like heavy plasmas), but I merely mention the laser pistols as a fair alternative for weak enemies. The laser rifle has a potential of 4 snapshots, so that's a very good weapon too.

Also, during the first few turns, or if you don't care about the loot, you may want to mine the door with a proximity mine every so often. Just be careful you don't put down a mine when you've cleared out all the ambulatory aliens. If no more aliens come out, you'll need a flying suit to safely remove the mine.

This strategy takes a lot of patience, but the overall effects are decent. Granted, you may have the occasional unlucky break, but that's true with any strategy.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 09 February 2004 - 01:40 PM.

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#4 Trevelyan

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 04:16 PM

Alrighty... lemme add a bit here on psy.

If you look at it deeper, psy simply either A.) Takes away a soldier's TUs (Panic) or B.) Makes you lose control of a soldier for one turn (MC, this includes his/her reaction shots during YOUR turn, they are against you).

What hurts the most? many will say MC... and they are quite right... but what happens if they MC a person with nothing? NOTHING... worst case senario... they make him walk into a cryssalid party. ^_^ Thus, if your dealing with psy able units (sectoids and etherals) carry only a simple laser rifle. when your done moving your units for their turn, drop all laser rifles, make sure that none hold them as it seems the psy attackers are selective on who they chose (best weapon yada yada yada). Now MC wont kill your guys directly anymore :)

A second and much more effective means of dealing with psy attackers requires one thing, powered armor (For those you want to live of course... rookies need only the shirt on their backs ;) ). Load up a sky ranger/Avenger with pistols (HUMAN pistols) and equip all with pistols and pleanty of magazines (otherwise known wrongly as Clips in game). Have you ever shot a Power suited Xcom agent with a pistol? let me tell you, you have nothing to worry about Newbie 284 blasting you in the donkey with 3 autofires from that pistol. In fact, i find MCed Rookies to be AWSOME target practice for people i'm training (apparently, the game just needs you to hit living targets to improve accuracy... good thing they didn't specify which ones ^_^) Not to mention the pistol (as stated above) has the most snapshots available in one round... it makes the pistol perfect for those thin-skinned brainiacs trying to screw up your plans to make the human race the most dominate race in the galaxy! If you have a person well trained in psyonics, it is for the best to give that person a Heavy plasma Rifle... as sectoids love hauling around Cyberdisks to ruin your fun.

more to come later!
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#5 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 04:39 PM

Facehugger's tactical notes;

Part one: Exgress from the Skyranger.

This is often the most dangerous phase of any mission. Your exiting units are vlunerable to reacton fire, and are all clumped in one place (like a big sign saying "Place blaster bomb here!") How can you possibly survive the first few turns of the mission? Two words; Smoke grenades. These help you immensely by covering you from enemy fire. Then, once you've gotten your men deployed, the mission moves onto part two.

Part Two: Bughunt.

During this phase, you should endevour to clear buildings and other good hiding places where there may be aliens. Blasterbombs, High explosives, and prox grenades help greatly here. If there is a UFO present, DO NOT enter it. Camp a guy or two within firing range of its door. During this phase, make sure that everyone has a partner. Never send someone out alone. If you are in a terrorsite or base mission, hunt down all aliens.

Part Three: Entering the UFO.

This is often one of the nastiest phases of any tactical operation against the aliens. Although you could, theoretically, wait until the aliens get hungry and try to leave the ship (40+ turns), that tactic is for cowards and weaklings. Now, upon clearing the majority of the areas outside the UFO, it is time to clear the inside. First, make sure you are ready and equiped. Now toss a smoke grenade right in front of the UFO door. Then, proceed to rush into the UFO. Most UFOs have a 'foyer' or similar area (Ex: Large scout, Abductor) where you should wait to regain your TUs. Then use groups of two to clear the UFO (paying special attention to subrooms). Motion trackers are very helpful here, because certain ships have lots of obstructions that the bugs can hide behind (supplyship and those food containers.)

Special notes:
Against a Psi capable alien, send your men out in groups of one.
Against Mutons, make sure you have at least heavy plasmas.
Against Cyberdisks, make sure you have explosives or laser rifles (or heavy plasmas.)

Also note: two to three blaster bombs can punch through a Ufo's wall.
In addition, when you shoot down a ship, there will often be holes that units in flying suits can exploit to sneak up on the bugs. The aliens have a tendency to wait for your men at the doors.
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#6 NKF

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Posted 09 February 2004 - 11:19 PM

Some additional tips if you decide to storm a UFO rather than wait it out (there are very valid reasons for storming rather than waiting - particularly if you're up against psi aliens like the sectoids, and you need to knock out that sectoid leader in the command room quickly before it messes up your ranks).

Grenades (in general). Though you are in small quarters, grenades are invaluable around corners. You never know when an alien is waiting. This is especially valid for the supply ship, when you're going around the corner to the bridge-room.

If you have power suits, you can also choose to use autocannons with HE-shells. Unless you score a direct hit on one of your own soldiers, you'll never feel the backlash, this makes it a superb close-combat weapon inside UFOs, but only as long as you remember to wear some power suits or better.

Learn the layout and quirks of the UFOs.

The supply ships for example have two separate upper levels. If you want to storm it, your first objective should be to block the lifts by rushing some soldiers up to them and standing at the base of the lift(s). This effectively locks down both upper areas and you can take them out at your leisure. Aliens also don't really know how to shoot down small lifts - but you can easily shoot up a lift (or toss a grenade).

You will also want to memorise all the areas in the UFO where there will always be a guard of some sort that does not move around. They're often a high ranked alien waiting in the bridge of the UFO (if it's psi-capable, then there's no doubt that it's the one harassing your psi-weak units). The large scout in particular has a unique 'guard' in the bridge. If you go up the right passage, this unit almost always kills the first soldier through the door. If you go up the left passage, go to the nearest corner but not step through the door, the guard, for some reason, will decide to walk right towards you. By the next turn, it will have run out of TUs and will probably be standing in the next chamber. You can safely walk through the door and take it out without fear of retribution (just watch out for other aliens, however!).

Bring some rockets or heavy/auto cannon HE shells along with you. If you know that there's an alien right above you, you can fire the rounds up at the ceiling and the blast will go right through it and injure anything on the floor above. (you can also toss grenades through the ceiling, but this doesn't make any sense and may be considered cheating unless you make a hole).

Heavy plasmas. Even if you choose to not use them for combating the aliens, the heavy plasmas are useful as tunneling devices as they can punch holes through the inner UFO walls. Some good examples of where making a hole would be useful would be for entering the bridge of the supply ship and the abductor (the asterisk shaped UFO). Both ships feature a camping alien in these rooms that stares at the doorway, waiting for anyone to walk through. This alien almost always trumps the 'current' reaction score for any soldier that walks through the door, and thus gets off a reaction shot. However, if you come in through the rear and enter the room while the alien's back is turned, you get to avoid its reaction fire. My recommendation would be to just drop a high explosive pack behind it and get behind the super-tough walls for a bit of protection. ;)

Avoid using explosives near the power units. No, they won't explode, but the elerium pods (little purple square at the base of the power unit) are very fragile and can easily be destroyed by explosives. Each one is worth 50 elerium. You can, if you choose to do so, use a heavy plasma (or other similar powerful-non-explosive weapon) and blast away the power unit (no, it won't blow up, no matter what the extent of damage done to a shot down UFOs may lead you to believe), then have the soldier scoop up the pod for safekeeping. It's not necessary, but if you forsee a lot of explosive use in the area, or you plan to abandon the UFO and escape with the elerium, go right ahead. (note, in TFTD, zrbite are yellow bars. However, unlike power units, IBA's explode.)

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 09 February 2004 - 11:43 PM.

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#7 Cpl. Facehugger

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 01:58 PM

You can harvest elerium? Damn! And here I've been attacking all these scouts and purging all the aliens there when all I really want is the elerium!
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#8 Trevelyan

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 03:07 PM

It is really not that useful, You might as well kill everything then to just pick up all the stuff, run everyone back to the skyranger and then bugging out... losing weapons and corpses you created. The only time i bugged out is if I'm losing badly due to psy, or I just captured an alien i needed. I often run the alien back and get the heck out of dodge with the valuable alien :D
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#9 NKF

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Posted 10 February 2004 - 11:45 PM

Nothing wrong with a tactical retreat. As long as you get away with something, like weapons (your first blaster launcher sample, for example, or a pile of heavy plasmas), or have abducted a high ranking alien (like a sectoid commander).

Harvesting elerium from a ship is okay, but yeah, it's better to just clear out the ship and get everything in one go. You can, however, harvest elerium from alien bases. There's one particular alien base module that has two power units in it (with only one powered with elerium). But you'd still be far better of tackling the supply ships that stop at the base rather than tunnel into the heart of the base and escape again.

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#10 stewart

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 07:58 AM

a- exiting the ship
b- How to deal with psy when you have none
c- How to minimize Blaster bomb related losses
d- Camping the UFO, How and when
e- Entering UFO
f- Using flying suits to their full potential
g- Alien specific movements

a-smokers, if you try to keep soldiers smokers + tank

b-two options
1 ) don't bother/run away
2 ) pick it up put it down psy means you lose reactive fire because you drop your weapons a crouch at the end of every turn.

c-two things
1 ) ahem . . . . spread out.
2 ) kill the guy with blaster

d - I usually hit the UFO last after clearing the ground, although I'll have a few snipers/prox grenadiers watching the door. Once the grounds are clear, wait for a while letting the proxies/snipers do their work. Then in you go. Medium Scout tip - High Explosive throw in the big hole is fun.

e - someone said that a smoker will penetrate inside if so then go for it. If you can make holes in the UFO or some are present, go for it. Or just be prepared to take a hit.

f - stick your "artillery" squad in flying suits and stick 'em up high but away from the aliens where they are relatively safe and can direct unobstructed fire.

g - Chrysallids can't fly, Reapers can't go through doors. A floater on a slope would seem to be immune to balst damage.

There's a "field manual" at XTC in the XCOM 1 forum, have a gander.
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#11 SupSuper

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Posted 11 February 2004 - 09:16 AM

- Exiting the ship
- How to deal with psy when you have none
- How to minimize Blaster bomb related losses
- Camping the UFO, How and when
- Entering UFO
- Using flying suits to their full potential
- Alien specific movements

- if it was TFTD i would open the door without exiting the ship and easily check for enemies nearby. but since it isn't, i just send my SER* to check out the area. if all is safe, the big guys (or the guys with the big guns) start coming out.
- if the psi concentrates on certain guys, i just leave them weaponless and find the psi dude. if the psi concentrates on everyone and it's bloody annoying / deadly (eg. etherial terror sites) i just abort or try to find the psi guy with my SSR**.
- flying suits / stay far apart, no walking in tight groups. or try to find the blaster guy with my SSR.
- when it's big ufo (medium+) i just camp the entrance(s) with my best reactions/accuracy soldiers to zap most of the aliens. or i send in my SSR loaded with grenades :rolleyes: when no more come out i go in (see below).
- spread out and search it's the best tactic. ufos haven't got much space to run away thus explosives shouldn't be considered. there's also many hiding places for both you and the aliens.
- fly high to make the best of the suits. the higher you fly the harder it is for aliens to hit you (however the less you see directly under you). also when u fly u can't be hit by grenades or chrysallids. put guys with good accuracy on flying suits so they don't suck at shooting because of the height.
- chrysalids have lots of TUs and go straight for your soldiers, reapers can't enter buildings (no matter how hard they try), cyberdiscs are sometimes at ground level (more danger when they blow up), etherials MC you the minute you press the End Turn button, etc.

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#12 Tsereve

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Posted 18 July 2004 - 04:00 PM

For psy, I have all my officers hang back in the Skyranger and drop everything while my rookies (with a laser pistol and grenade each, saves TU) rush the UFO. When they find the lead psychic, they prime a grenade for 0 turns and let loose with auto-fire from up-close. If the lasers don't get him, the grenade will explode. This usually works, but sometimes the UFO doesn't have a door. Do only larger ones have them, or is this a glitch in my game? I once lost two plasma rifles and several Sectoids (2 live, 3 dead) because I couldn't find the **** last alien.
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#13 Paladin

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Posted 20 July 2004 - 05:27 PM

How efficient are Smoke grenades at covering your troops anyway... ?
Never kept my troops from geting fried.
I know kneeling increases chance to hit by about 20%, but how about smoke? What's the formula involved??
:huh?:
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#14 NKF

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Posted 21 July 2004 - 07:58 AM

Actually, kneeling increases your overall accuracy by 15%. Basically it just multiplies your firing accuracy by 1.15.

Smoke is a double edged sword. It just reduces visibility - not firing accuracy, so there's no formula there. An alien normally can see as far as 20 tiles in a straight line. But a dense smoke cloud could reduce this somewhat. So if the alien is close enough to see your soldier and it has the higher reaction score, it'll still get its reaction shot. The trick is to move and not be seen. I know, it's easier said than done.

Your chances of avoiding a reaction shot are a lot better in a smoke cloud than just standing out in a clear field.

But do remember that they're not invulnerability forcefields. Boy, I sure wish you had something like that though. :)

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#15 Paladin

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Posted 22 July 2004 - 07:06 AM

Actually, kneeling increases your overall accuracy by 15%. Basically it just multiplies your firing accuracy by 1.15.

Smoke is a double edged sword. It just reduces visibility - not firing accuracy, so there's no formula there. An alien normally can see as far as 20 tiles in a straight line. But a dense smoke cloud could reduce this somewhat. So if the alien is close enough to see your soldier and it has the higher reaction score, it'll still get its reaction shot. The trick is to move and not be seen. I know, it's easier said than done.

Your chances of avoiding a reaction shot are a lot better in a smoke cloud than just standing out in a clear field. 

But do remember that they're not invulnerability forcefields. Boy, I sure wish you had something like that though. :)

- NKF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you sure smoke does'nt reduce accuracy?
Because I sometimes get the feeling my guys miss a lot more often when there's lots of smoke (including point blank... I mean, how can they miss THAT??) :hammer:
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#16 NKF

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Posted 22 July 2004 - 07:32 AM

Heh, I miss all the time with highly accurate soldiers. In or out of smoke, once with a shot that was 100+ accurate, over a few tiles, and no smoke in sight. It just hit the ground instead of the alien. Worse still, I often like to use laser pistols point blank. It's amazing how some shots in an autofire burst still miss at such a short range.

I generally use sniping squads that dig in and wait while a scout spots aliens ahead. If there's no cover and I've just deployed from the ship, I usually leave the snipers waiting in a smoke cloud until the area is safe. They shoot just as well (and as badly) even at the very centre of the smoke screen.

If smoke were to affect your accuracy, the change would normally be reflected in your weapon accuracy scores.

Just look at the aliens. Smoke doesn't affect their accuracy much at all. :)

Hmm, I've been thinking of setting up a test mission to experiment with the smoke grenades. If I can find some time, and if I remember (this is the most important part), I'll set one up.


- NKF

Edited by NKF, 22 July 2004 - 07:40 AM.

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#17 Paladin

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Posted 22 July 2004 - 11:44 AM

(...)
Hmm, I've been thinking of setting up a test mission to experiment with the smoke grenades. If I can find some time, and if I remember (this is the most important part), I'll set one up.

- NKF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yay! If someone could confirm this, it would really help me to use them :LOL:
Because I must say I usually don't find much use for those Smokers (except as fire extinguishers). I know I should, but it's only since the early days of TFTD that I've learned to see the usefullness of grenades.
Too bad the puny starting grenades are not even enough to drop a normal Sectoid in SuperHuman... And since we can't pikle them as in TFTD... :boohoo:

Well, I'm looking forward to see how it works out in Xenocide, any idea if the smoke is going to affect accuracy then (maybe in V1+) :happybanana:
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then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

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There is another which states that this has already happened.
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#18 x0563511

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 02:05 PM

My trick for dealing with UFOs:

I use xcomutil, so this may or may not work without it...

I surround the ufo at a large distance with 2 tanks covering the exit (already cleared the countryside)... and i prime a couple high explosives (one on a troop on each side, for example) and i end turn.

Next turn, i throw the highexplosives against the sides of the ufo, and make sure everyone is clear... next turn, BOOM! several seperate entrances to the ufo, and troops covering each one....

You can imagin how much easier it is clearing a UFO with 3-6 seperate entryways...


For bigger UFOs, i usually have 3-4 flying suits for this: I do the same, but also punch holes on the ceiling (different decks, on certain UFOs)

#19 NKF

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 03:21 PM

If I remember correctly, more recent versions of XComutil 'enhanced' the high explosive's power to a ridiculously high level.

I feel that they are pretty powerful as they already are, but they certainly cannot punch through UFO walls except in the mountain region.

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#20 x0563511

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 07:19 PM

200 damage if you were wondering... maybe if the radius was reduced? Like a shaped charge kind of?

I saw someone had made the alien grenades proximity of set to a specific fuse time (i believe it was the last on the list) does anyone know how that was done? I wana do it to the high explosives... BIG booby trap!

Edited by x0563511, 31 July 2004 - 07:21 PM.


#21 Sergio

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Posted 01 August 2004 - 07:03 PM

b. Dealing with Psy attacks.
There is only one tried and true weay of doing it and it is.
make sure none of your men has any time units left at the end of each turn.
This means that if your man is mind contrlled he or paniced all he can doi is stand there.
Remember the aliens can only use any time units left for mind control.
This means to make sure your men are in cover or in places where aliens are unlikely to walk striaght out and blast them. In my experience this works well when attacking a battleship or supply ship full of Ehtereals or Sectiods towards the end of the first year (when you may not have yet trained your men in Psy yet)

PS. Many many years ago I tried the unlaoding method where you unlooad everyones rifle by putting it in the other hand but this is ineffective compared with simply running your men out of time units.
Reloading is just plain cheating. This is War!

#22 NKF

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Posted 01 August 2004 - 10:35 PM

There is just one problem with that. A mind controlled unit's TUs are replenished. Try mind controlling a large terror unit. Use up its TUs. Mind control one of its other quarters and you'll find that the TUs are full again.

But then again, this may only be true for X-Com mind control. Alien mind control may not replenish a units' TUs.

There is still one other problem: What happens on the next turn? While the unit is under mind control, you won't be able to empty the unit's TUs during that turn.

One other option would be to just drop the gun and any weapons that may be on the problem soldier. The AI doesn't know how to pick equipment up off the ground.

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#23 Paladin

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Posted 12 August 2004 - 06:43 AM

I confirm, what NKF said, the MC replenishes the TUs... That's how your controlled guys can shoot 2 or 3 autofires after they've been controlled.

One solution to mind control is to have all your guys scatter, that way they won't kill any of your guys immediately, and you can later stun them or wait for the MC to pass...
I like the idea of dropping the guns, but you'd have to drop teh grenades too, they know how to use those... :explode:
If I discover I'm in for some MCing, I reequip my MC weak guys with stun rods and laser pistols...
:D
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then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

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#24 Admiral Harkov

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Posted 28 August 2004 - 11:48 AM

Exiting the ship:
Usually couples, the first couple goes behind the back wheels and the others advance to the border of the craft. Next the two of the wheels take their own ways and the other couple take his old places. And so on.

Deal with psy:
I don't do that. If my solider is panicked I try to kill the alien. If he gets controlled I kill him, and take his valious equipment. :devillaugh:

Minimize blaster bomb loses:
I leave that to good luck (that of the aliens not having blasters). In bases I try to not get more than two soldiers in the same room. When I know they have

Camping the UFO and entering the UFO:
Depends on the type of UFO. If it's not big I take up to four-five soldiers near and then they enter while the rest explore outside. If it's big (more than a cross type) I wait untill all the outside is explored. Maybe if it's a harvester I have enough with the four five for entering the front door and one watching the back base floor. (See below) If I know aliens will exit that door before my team is prepared or right in this turn I'll put a proxnade and wait. I usually make the first soldier to enter carry a primed grenade, which makes sure he will be able to kill any aliens after entering since it uses few TUs to throw it. And maybe, if there is some alien, he'll exit after throwing the nade or failing to kill the alien with his weapon.

Using Flyying suits:
I haven't used them. I'm playing experienced for first time and my elerium supplies are too few to build them. A power suit is more than enough.

Alien specific.
The only specific are chryssalids. Usually I place proxnades in small places where I think they are, and in the way I expect them coming. For small places is the main mean to kill them, I won't enter them since that time when one catched one of my best soldiers and then it spread eggs around. I had to kill more than fifteen and it was beginner level.

More when I get more experience

#25 Paladin

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Posted 30 August 2004 - 07:51 AM

Well, try not to use explosives around power sources and you won't have an Elirium problem :D
And Flying armor Rules!! :rock:
(supreme against SOAB Chrysalids, great for secondary entrances/lifts, perfect for Rocket launchers: Never miss again)
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
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#26 Admiral Harkov

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Posted 04 September 2004 - 05:14 AM

Mmm, in superhuman my rocket launcher tank is not that strong :boohoo:

#27 Paladin

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 09:24 AM

I never said anything about a tank, I was refering to hand-held Rocket-launcher fired by guys flying 10m high that very rarely miss because they'll explode on the ground anyway...

Until you get the plasma hovertank, the Rocket launcher tank is still your best friend, because it's a demolission expert, and it can take more punishment than your T-shirted rookies... even Personal armored ones...
I use the rocket launcher extensively, and I liberrally spray the buildings down...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#28 Admiral Harkov

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 11:11 AM

I said any thing about a tank: that having one was 80% victory in base defense. I thought it's resistance was so much that I could assume it would have some importance in superhuman.
... hey, maybe I said that in another thread about harder mission? Yes, I said that in another thread and so that last post of mine shouldn't be here

#29 EtherImp

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 11:17 AM

I personally try to avoid using tanks until I get plasma hovertanks, because they make great scouts. Against Ethereals I will throw in a Laser Tank, because of sectopods.
Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the 'one'.
Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending,
To write it down for all the world to see.

But I forgot my pen!

#30 Paladin

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Posted 07 September 2004 - 12:08 PM

Hmmm, you should definitely ponder the value of the rocket launcher tank, especially in the early game, becasue it's devastating against the alien's cover, especially with it's 70TUs and two-rockets per turn fire rate... :LOL:

Later on, replace it with two High TUs guys carrying a rocket laucher and 2-4 rockets each, it's worth it... :D
As I said, they never miss when firing from higher...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#31 EtherImp

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 09:05 AM

Too messy for my style. :)

I like training my troops more.
Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the 'one'.
Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending,
To write it down for all the world to see.

But I forgot my pen!

#32 Paladin

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 11:32 AM

Well, I AM training my troops, the Rocket launchers are mostly used as ACBs (Alien Cover Blasters), and the rokies can pummel them with Rifles and grenades... :D
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#33 NKF

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Posted 08 September 2004 - 10:46 PM

Rockets are great training weapons. Sure, you won't get as much experience out of a rocket than you would with a pistol, but when you have really low stats, you don't need a lot of training to get a few good stat boosts. You only have to worry about quantity when the stats have really grown to a high level. It's inversely proportional, see?

Also, rockets are area effect weapons. Area effect weapons don't need to be very precise. They just need to hit a spot near the target(s). In addition, every enemy target caught in the blast will count as a hit. This means a hopelessly inaccurate soldier that can at least get the rocket to hit something near the intended target (say a barn wall) will score the hit. Keep this up, and eventually the soldier will be able to shelve the launcher and start sniping with a simpler weapon.

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#34 Paladin

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 06:57 AM

Ah, I did'nt know they received less experience when firing a rocket than a pistol... :huh?:
Unless of course you mean that you'll have to hit them thrice with the pistol :D

I also find that rockets ar pretty nifty against cover, buildings and other trees... :LOL:
I try to equip the 2 guys up front with rocket launchers, that way they'll blast the crap out of any close-by aliens :D
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#35 EtherImp

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 08:54 AM

No, I meant Rocket Tanks.. A rocket tank killing an alien will not recieve you any experience. Rocket Launchers and AC's on the other hand are great for experience. 1 shot hitting or killing several aliens will give you several "XP's".
Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position.
Such a heavy burden now to be the 'one'.
Born to bear and bring to all the details of our ending,
To write it down for all the world to see.

But I forgot my pen!

#36 Paladin

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Posted 09 September 2004 - 12:24 PM

No, I meant Rocket Tanks.. A rocket tank killing an alien will not recieve you any experience. Rocket Launchers and AC's on the other hand are great for experience. 1 shot hitting or killing several aliens will give you several "XP's".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course, but I use the Rocket launcher tank until my guys get flying armors, because it's great for scouting and blasting covers/buildings...
With flying armors comes the full benefit of Rocket launchers...

Autocannons are better at beginner levels, because most hits will kill aliens... In superhuman, however, you NEED the extra damage/higher accuracy of the rocket launcher with Heavy Rockets...
-_-
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#37 Xether

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Posted 17 September 2004 - 08:36 AM

- exiting the ship:

For the sky ranger i have 2 guys walk down the first square of the ramp then jump down next to the back wheals which they use for slight cover. They then turn 360 to see what is around the LZ.

- How to deal with psy when you have none:
If i see a guy getting totally raped by psy i will stun him before he becomes a danger to other xcom agents :hammer:

- How to minimize Blaster bomb related losses:
I usually have troops in skirmish formation which makes grenades not kill your whole group. Seeing how blaster bombs radius is so big that it hardly makes a difference. So i just hope they don't get the chance to use them :LOL:

- Camping the UFO, How and when:

For me aliens hardly ever come out of the UFO so i rarely camp outside. But my Bang, bang and clear formation before entering the ufo is pretty good in dealing with the odd alien dumb enough to take a peak outside. (two guys beside the ufo doors kneeing and facing towards to door. 2 guys infront of the door about 3 squares away kneeing facing the door :naughty: )

- Entering UFO:

If anyone has played any of the swat games and done crash bang and clear then its abit like that. (Run in with grenades and full auto the place :happybanana: )

- Using flying suits to their full potential:

1. For the use of Can opening tactic for UFOs
2. To fly ontop of roofs so you can snipe.
3. To avoid chyasalids :naughty:
4. Take short cuts like fly over fences,hedges etc.

- Alien specific movements:

:huh:

#38 Paladin

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Posted 17 September 2004 - 09:25 AM

I agree with that, except that camping is good when in early game (when entering is a rookie-suicide), while clearing around the UFO, or when PSI or blaster launchers are a danger...
Proxy mines are great when camping...
"You're just jealous because the voices in my head only talk to me."

"I only think this stuff up ..
then I have to write it down so it doesn't corrupt the rest of my brain.. "

"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.
There is another which states that this has already happened.
-Douglas Adams (The Hitchhicker's Guide to the Galaxy)"

#39 Dover

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 02:56 PM

Things to discuss:
- exiting the ship
- How to deal with psy when you have none
- How to minimize Blaster bomb related losses
- Camping the UFO, How and when
- Entering UFO
- Using flying suits to their full potential
- Alien specific movements

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Exiting the ship:
- I send out about 4-6 soldiers (Depending on how many I have total), and any tanks I have (Tanks first, obviously).
- I reserve enough TUs for at least a snapshot and point them in any direction that resistance could come from.
- I don't bother with smoke grenades at all.

How to dead with psi, when I have none:
- If I have my soldiers screened, low psi-str soldiers get stun rods and flares only and are used to scout ahead for enemies.
- If not, any soldier who panics is immediately given a stun rod and turned into a scout.
- If any of my men get MCed, I don't kill them (Every soldier has their uses), rather I stun them and possibley revive them later on in the match.

How to minimize blaster bomb related losses:
- The best way is to take them out before they get a chance to shoot.
- Blaster bombs are used almost exclusively when 3+ men hide behind some form of cover. Therefore, Squad members should be kept in pairs, and not stay behind any one bit of cover for beyond one turn.
- One of my best soldiers survived a direct blaster-bomb to the back of the head while wearing Flying armor, so...get the best armor you can?

Camping the UFO, how and when:
- 2 or more men, at opposite ends of the door at each other, OR
- Tanks, parked right in front of the door.
- All this should be done as soon as you can be reasonably sure you're safe.

Entering the UFO:
- Using high-reaction, high-accuracy soldiers would solve any issues.
- Save TUs before entering doors or turning dangerous corners.
- Some people swear by the motion scanner, because of it's ability to see through walls.
- Walking in with grenades primed has it's virtues.
- If you happen to walk in on a wecoming party, but they haven't shot at you yet, MC one and have him distract the others with plasma, while you escape or kill something, depending on what you want to do.

Using Flying Suits to their full potential:
- There are those pesky spots in some downed Terror Ships that you can't get to without flying suits.
- Area-effect weapons are better to use higher up, because of a lesser chance of missing.
- You are actually harder to hit while in midair, because of an added demension (depth), as far as the shot in concerned (Even though you're usually deprived of cover).

Alien-specific movements:
- Reapers are retards. I've tried to feed a reaper some of my rookies on purpose, but as soon as he gets near enough he just runs away.

Edited by Dover, 03 February 2006 - 11:45 AM.


#40 SaintD

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Posted 03 February 2006 - 05:34 PM

Things to discuss:
- exiting the ship
- How to deal with psy when you have none
- How to minimize Blaster bomb related losses
- Camping the UFO, How and when
- Entering UFO
- Using flying suits to their full potential
- Alien specific movements

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Exiting the Ship
  • Send a tank out first. Have it look left and right. If the aliens aren't too close to the exit, try to get the tank to scout about 2/3 of it's TU's in all directions.
  • I only pop smoke if the back of the ranger is in a bad spot. Say facing a lot of jungle, between houses, always at night, most terror missions.
  • After that I get 2 soldiers off the ship each turn on average. With the avenger I line them up behind the door and keep advancing them. With the skyranger I keep troops inside back a bit till they need out. As I move them off the ship I form them into 2 person squads for scouting and set up several in a firing line where they have a clear line of site.
  • If there are aliens that can be seen out the back of the ship, I have each person who moves out of the ship take a shot at them as they jump out and look for cover. Since I deploy rookies first this gives them a great chance to score a hit on an alien and then hide before it shoots them back. If they get shot, well, you can get more rookies easily enough.
Dealing whith PSI when you have none
  • If haven't screened your soldiers, have the first guys who suffer an attack drop weapons and grenades. Typically they will be panicked and run away from the Psionic alien. If they get far enough away the alien will pick on someone else closer. Try to keep the weakest psi guys close to the controlling aliens to distract them. If you are up against Ethereals and you haven't screened your guys, bug out.
Screening without a psi-lab: I let the sectoids keep a base in Australia near one of my bases. I send in a sky ranger full of soldiers whenever a supply ship lands. The proccess of "natural selection" weeded all the psi weaklings out of thats bases pool by virtue of repeated assualts on psi cabable aliens. When the Ethereals showed up, I sent this squad after them. They wasted a lot of time trying to panick soldiers with good psi and high bravery. When I got the psi labs, I noticed these soldiers had a minimun of 50 psi str.

How to minimize Blaster bomb related losses
  • Never give a blaster launcher to someone you aren't sure has a good psionic defense. I have lost more soldiers to blaster bomb freindly fire than alien fire.
  • Spread out. (of course) If you are assaulting a snake man base, this is tricky. If you spread out too fast, you are Cryssalid bait. But if you stay bunched up, the commander can waste the whole squad in one shot. Try to divide into 4 groups at least. You will take heavy losses, but not a total wipeout.
  • Use blaster bombs yourself. A dead alien can't fire his weapon.
  • Rush them. As soon as you see an alien with a blaster bomb, or see the missile trails, try to rush them. You might lose a few men and tanks, but the alien might panic and blaster bomb himself with you. (I pinned a snakeman commander in the lift of a battleship with tanks. He blew himself up trying to kill the tanks.)
  • Use the Collections Edition version. It's got bugs that make blaster bombs less lethal in the hands of the aliens. I personally use the DOS version and accept that blaster bombs are a very real threat.
Camping the UFO, How and when
  • I camp all the ufo's for a while. (till I get board). I camp battleships till the last alien comes out.
  • Keep your men well back from the portals and to the sides. Aliens miss sometimes. The farther back you are, the more they miss. Nothing is worse than having a sectoid pop out, waste a soldier and run back into his hidey hole turn after turn. If you keep back you will tempt him to take a few extra steps out, at which time you can get him with reaction fire.
  • Use laser pistols and laser rifles to camp. You can get more reaction fire in. If you want to train reaction fire for some guys, give them plain old pistols.
Entering UFO
In prefered order:
  • Blaster bomb some new entrances and storm the place with flying suites on all levels at once.
  • Mind control an alien to open the door. Give it a primed grenade to toss.
  • Use a rookie to open the door with a high reaction high TU vet right on his heals.
  • Give some rookies some primed grenades, the bigger the better, and have them charge in. They should try to get as close to the aliens as they can before the aliens reaction fire gets them.
  • Send in wave after wave of your own men till the aliens run out of ammo.
Using flying suits to their full potential
  • Protection and easy id of high ranking soldiers.
  • Rookies with rocket launchers hit better from altitude.
  • See "entering UFO".
  • Spread you soldiers in 3 dimensions to allow more soldiers to get long range shots without shooting each other in the back.
  • Can often withstand a heavy plasma shot to the chest.
  • Self contained, smoke won't knock you out.
  • Makes a handy space suit.
  • A good way to get rid of extra elerium clogging up your stores. :P
Alien specific movements
  • Aliens like to exit, shoot, run back in. The doors shut before your turn, but if you open a door, it stays open for the alien turn.
  • Psionic aliens ability to panick and control units falls off with distance. Try to keep psi bait close to them.
  • Aliens busy making psi attacks will rarely move on thier turn. You can't find them with the motion scanner, but you can often locate them, then circle around to shoot them in the back.
  • Melee units will turn around after a reaction shot at them.
  • Crysalids will locate you, hide behind a close corner, then rush you. Attack vigorously or run away when one spots you.
  • Snakemen move slow. Roll in with a tank to spot them, then back off. Shoot them from a distance with sniper units. They will chase the tank and never catch up.
  • Aliens will often move towards the closest XCOM unit. If you spread out a lot it makes the aliens movement less predicable. If you are camping a battleship, concentrate all your people in a half circle. They will come to you when they emerge. (spread out to aviod the dreaded BB)
  • Sectoids, Snakemen and Floaters will target tanks over soldiers most of the time given a choice.
  • Ethereals and to a lesser extent Mutons will target the unit with the weakest armor given a choice. (tried to bait them with tanks and they just mowed down guys in t-shirts instead).


#41 Dover

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 02:51 PM

A Note on camping UFOs and proxy mines:

A proxy mine, while useful for camping or defense, won't kill a muton. In fact, it'll barely scratch him. The classic setup for proxys is:

|
 |
 I X
 |
 |

| = wall
I = Door
X = Proxy

This deals 1 mine's worth of damage to whoever comes through to door. I however, use:

|
 | X
 I 
 | X
 |

| = wall
I = Door
X = Proxy

This way, twice the damage is delt, without the mines setting each other off.

Oh, and by the way, avoid this:

|
 |
 IX
 |
 |

| = wall
I = Door
X = Proxy

The enemy will set off the mine on the other side of the door, but the door will absorb the damage.

#42 NKF

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 06:59 PM

Two mines - won't that destroy the other mine? It works in TFTD because the grenades have more armour than their blast strength. Grenades in UFO however have little to no defense against HE attacks, and get destroyed easily. Also, grenades in UFO/TFTD go off sequentially, so there's no hope in both of the mines detonating at exactly the same time.

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Edited by NKF, 05 February 2006 - 07:06 PM.

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#43 Zombie

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Posted 05 February 2006 - 11:06 PM

A Note on camping UFOs and proxy mines:

A proxy mine, while useful for camping or defense, won't kill a muton. In fact, it'll barely scratch him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Man, I hate to do this. While true that one Proximity grenade does not have enough strength to kill a Muton outright, it is possible to do some serious damage.

Beginner level Muton Soldier: 125 Health, 5 Under Armor.
Proximity Grenade damage range: 35 - 105
(35-5)/125 = 24%, (105-5)/125 = 80%
Therefore one proximity grenade will deduct 24 - 80% of a Muton's health. And because the average damage dealt is 52%, you will normally only need 2 Proxies to kill a Beginner level Muton Soldier.

Worst case scenario:
Superhuman Muton Engineer: 125 Health, 20 Under Armor.
Proximity Grenade damage range: 35 - 105
(35-20)/125 = 12%, (105-20)/125 = 68%
Now the proxy will only deduct 12-68% of a Superhuman Muton Engineer's Health. Since the average now drops to just 40%, you are looking at 3 of these grenades for an outright kill.

So I don't really consider 80 or even 68% to be "barely a scratch". It is actually quite significant. :wink1:

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A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#44 Blehm 98

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 12:20 AM

3 grenades on a muton to kill it though

It looks possible, but how practable is it. There is no point to throwing three grenades at a muton unless you want to try and get it to reaction fire at you
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#45 Zombie

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 12:40 AM

Well, because you have the same probability (1.41%) of rolling any damage number in the range, it is entirely possible. The damage modifier tests I ran at the StrategyCore forums proved that without a doubt.

For the most part though, you are never going to even try killing a Muton with only Proxy mines. If you do injure a Muton with a proxy, then your next course of action would be to shoot at it. Dumping grenades takes longer to kill because like NKF said, multiple grenades do not work in tandem. Only one blast per round is possible. You are therefore going to use the heavier explosives (Alien Grenade, Hi-Ex, Large Rocket or BB) which almost guarantee a quick death. :)

- Zombie
The Mr. Grognard of X-COM

Zombie: Empirical data's your only man, when formulating a research plan.
A soldier's death is never in vain if it makes the formula more plain.
A few dozen make a better case for refining that third decimal place.
They call me Zombie because I don't sleep, as I slowly struggle to climb this heap,
of corpses, data points, and trials, but from the top - I'll see for miles!


#46 NKF

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 12:41 AM

You can look at it this way. A crippled muton can't hit you as easily as a healthy muton. In the above case, 24 - 80% of the mutons health can also be seen as a 24 - 80% drop in the mutons overall accuracy, putting the odds well in your favour.

So even if a proximity grenade doesn't kill the muton in one blast, both the muton's active and reaction attacks will suffer.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 06 February 2006 - 12:42 AM.

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#47 Blehm 98

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 12:42 AM

Yes, i can see that as working, tossing a prox grenade to injure him, and then finishing him off with an alien grenade or HP blast, that is much more logical. In that case, 24% damage is useful enough, especially with how the alien told you where he is
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#48 Snakeman

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 07:21 AM

I've never known the exacting numbers it takes, but having been a prolific user of proximity mines, I think I knew in the back of my mind that they were always good for keeping aliens off guard long enough for your other soldiers covering the area to react to it. I don't think any other grenade type saw as much use in my games as these things. I love 'em :)

#49 Zombie

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 11:38 AM

Me too. :)

One thing which makes Proxies different from other grenades is the fact that it will not go off until movement is detected in the one tile radius surrounding Ground Zero. If the Proxy is placed in a location where only aliens are lurking, then the explosion should only happen during their round.

Here is what makes this interesting. Aliens have predetermined routes which they follow for scouting. If a Proximity Grenade is near one of these paths, and the alien sets it off, the scouting procedure is disrupted (reaction fire also does this). Instead of forging ahead like the alien planned, the computer overrides this and usually has the alien turn around and go back to it's previous location. Call it fleeing or self-preservation. This keeps the alien out of your range for another round - long enough to prime and throw another Proxy to finish the job.

Now, the mechanics of alien movement aren't fully understood at the moment. But Proximity Grenades and reaction fire do seem to interrupt the alien movement sequence. :P

[Edit, Nicely put NKF!]

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Edited by Zombie, 06 February 2006 - 11:40 AM.

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#50 Dover

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Posted 06 February 2006 - 01:20 PM

Man, I hate to do this. While true that one Proximity grenade does not have enough strength to kill a Muton outright, it is possible to do some serious damage.

Beginner level Muton Soldier: 125 Health, 5 Under Armor.
Proximity Grenade damage range: 35 - 105
(35-5)/125 = 24%, (105-5)/125 = 80%
Therefore one proximity grenade will deduct 24 - 80% of a Muton's health. And because the average damage dealt is 52%, you will normally only need 2 Proxies to kill a Beginner level Muton Soldier.

Worst case scenario:
Superhuman Muton Engineer: 125 Health, 20 Under Armor.
Proximity Grenade damage range: 35 - 105
(35-20)/125 = 12%, (105-20)/125 = 68%
Now the proxy will only deduct 12-68% of a Superhuman Muton Engineer's Health. Since the average now drops to just 40%, you are looking at 3 of these grenades for an outright kill.

So I don't really consider 80 or even 68% to be "barely a scratch". It is actually quite significant. :wink1:

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You're probably right, that it has a chance to do a nice bit of damage, but don't you just hate it whenever a muton run over one of your grenades and still has 100 or so health? :cussing: :killmonitor:

It's sooooooooo infuritaiting. The way I see it, proxys are supposed to cover me so I don't have to worry about an attack from any particular directing, and when the enemy just runs over my defenses...well...it makes me cry, to be honest. :sorry: :Tantrum:

Edited by Dover, 06 February 2006 - 01:21 PM.