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#1 mj_12commando

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Posted 25 March 2005 - 02:40 PM

Hmmm... perhaps a tech tree that goes like this?

Xenium--->Xenium reactors----->antigravity applications

And, as soon as you research Xenium reactors/power sources, you get this:

Assault Armor Mark I-
The basic deisgn of this machine was developed and built before the existence of aliens was known. Finally, with a high-power, small powersource, they are possible.

It'd be a 8-9 foot tall walker in the first iteration, armed with, say, a heavy machine gun (Browning M2-ish, real high stopping power) and a grenade launcher. Heavily armored, tough, and heavily armed, but vulnerable to even alien medium weapons. It'd only get better as you research alien tech, leading up to a version that's smaller, tougher, can jump or even fly, and has a blasterbomb launcher, a HtH attack, and a automatic very heavy plasma weapon of death. :)

It'd also be a prerequisite for building Power Armor and Flying Armor, seeing as this is basically getting the tech to work.

#2 Exo2000

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 03:48 AM

We have Stargate style MALPs for this. They're like the tanks of the first X-COM, unmanned and good for recon. I only used the X-COM Tanks when I used X-COMUtil's Tankbooster option, otherwise they were about as much use as throwing bricks at the aliens. ;)

The MALP-style vehicles will be upgraded with alien weaponry, powersources and armour and you can build your own once the opportunity and tech requirements arise/are fulfilled.

That said, a walker would be cool, and I can tell where you got the idea going by your name. :P

Anyone seen those SWORD "mechs"? Those are pretty neat. They'd be good for reconning the insides of UFOs if they made it into Xenocide. SWORDs are basically small tracked vehicles, barely 2ft high. They can right themselves, and all the important stuff is at the back, so any flak from the front has to go through a load of stuff to actually disable one. They can be loaded with machineguns, rocketlaunchers or grenadelaunchers. :D

EDIT: Hover/Plasmas are REALLY mean with the Tankbooster. I've only lost one so far, and I've had ones go on killing sprees. Proper killing sprees. On terror missions. It's hilarious to see a Sectoid shoot your Hover/Plasma with his Heavy Plasma and then run around the corner and run out of TU's. Next turn, the Hover/Plasma follows him around and he's right around the corner... staring down the barrel of the plasma cannon on the tank. Last thing he sees is a green flash as the Tank plasmafies his noggin. :D

Edited by Exo2000, 18 May 2005 - 03:51 AM.

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#3 x0563511

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Posted 18 May 2005 - 05:02 PM

Mechwarrior anyone?

Little too heavy for short range combat. Maybe for base defense?

#4 GDD

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Posted 19 May 2005 - 12:15 PM

you mean something like the powerloader out of aliens?

or an actual attack walker...

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Edited by GDD, 19 May 2005 - 12:16 PM.


#5 Snakeman

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Posted 20 May 2005 - 08:26 PM

I like the thought of a stepping stone tech nestled to be before the power/flying armors. I think it may also to a degree show us how impractical it can become once you've reached flying suits...That is, in terms of fighting in open terrain mostly.

I can also understand how tactically, it then probably sounds more suited to base defense duties whether its patrolling outside the base grounds or through its corridors. I think this tech is a good one too in terms of having your tech tree fork as far as improvemetents to not only what your soldiers would don and use, but also as a testbed for what your tanks an such would evolve into.

#6 GARAK

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Posted 21 May 2005 - 10:18 AM

Snakeman brings up a good point that I had not thought of. In the original xcom when the aliens attacked, you fought them off from inside the base. That was fun, but it would be cool to fight them on the ground above your base. Try to stop them from reaching the elevator. It should be VERY hard to stop them completely from entering the base though. Aleins attacking an xcorp base should be a really big deal and hard to fight off, otherwise there is no risk and nothing to be afraid of. In the original I rarely build base defences. It's not worth the monthely expenditure. IMHO.

#7 Snakeman

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 12:12 AM

True, I've spoken on this before - the bit about fighting them outside your base prior to fighting them in your base - and came to the conclusion that this "outside stage" so to speak, I don't think should last that long. I feel that what the aliens want to do most is get inside, so their moves during their turns will be essentially a B-line to your entrances (lift and hangers), only shooting at whatever's directly in their path or reacting to whatever's not.

I think weapons like the one described, the transitional suit/tank if you will, would be ideal for sentry duty outside or inside.

Maybe to fight outside your base ought to be a selection you choose to do after base defenses failed and they landed - i.e. Meet them at the Door? Or Wait for them inside? Yes/No sort of thing.

It could make it interesting also...To have a reason to go outside your base on those times when the defenses did their job, now your going outside to inspect the wreck for anything useful. Before I've sort of imagined "No wonder they can find my base, there must be heaps of gleaming alien alloys from all the ships I blasted over my base acting as a beacon" heh.

I think this would only be a useful endeavour to take part in, say if there are any significant lag times between your last mission and waiting for the next which may or may not have shown up, but you've had retaliation attempts on you. Maybe there are other practicalities to exploring this, such as the fact that maybe your lift and hanger exits would've gotten obstructed if you didn't send someone out to clear it up.

Edited by Snakeman, 23 May 2005 - 12:13 AM.


#8 NKF

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 01:30 AM

You could make it a simple check that the game does - are there soldiers/defences stationed in the exterior portion of the base? Yes? Launch exterior defence - but also give the player the option to automate the exterior defence phase (assuming no soldiers - or they're just generic no-name 'storm trooper' soldiers), otherwise immediately fast forward the game and move straight to the interior defences.

You could have two different soldier pools at the base - aptly named Exterior and Interior - with the interior being default for all recruits, bipedal armoured weapon units, mobile defence gun kits (fixed guns, but you can bolt them down and disguise them any old way you want in the exterior). Personnel in the exterior pool could also act as the workers for the building the base is diguised as (if any).

I'm getting the image of guns and armoured defence mechs being hidden in large boxes or bushes, and remaining hidden until they burst out to attack. (Imagine an alien platoon walking by and the mech (all squashed up in a very tight crouch) crashing out of a large wooden box with guns firing and wood splinters flying all over the place - or for a less spectacular fashion, an uninteresting box that splits open with the help of hydraulic rams and what have you, or a section of wall turning around to reveal a fixed gun placement).

But I think in the end the question "But is it fun?" has to be considered. Is it fun? Well, to my mind it could be fun - I like options, and I particularly like the fact that this would make your base feel like the alien colonies in TFTD (or Cydonia in UFO) where you had to assault the exterior before moving on to the all important interior where the base's vital facilities are. (I'm all for games where 'if the enemies can do it, so can you - well, eventually'). But I don't know about anyone else.

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Edited by NKF, 23 May 2005 - 01:41 AM.

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#9 T-1

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 08:39 AM

I think having to defend the exterior would be fun. Have some troops in a bunker sort of thing around the lift. You make the decision of either fighting with those troops to the death or to just retreat down once the aliens get too close.

#10 kelfka

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 12:21 PM

Perhaps the player can be given a choice to forfeit the outside terrain or not.
If the player knows it won’t be able to stop them outside he or she could forfeit outside giving more time (4 or 5 rounds) to prepare inside.

#11 Snakeman

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 08:55 PM

Perhaps that's another catch to having the option kelfka. If you don't go outside to deal as much damage as you can in those 5 turns, you forfiet being able to choose ideal defensive positions for your troops on the interior.

On the other hand, if all you had was camoflaged automated gun emplacements/prox minefields and no men out there, and chose to automate the outside portion, you ought to still be able to have the 'prepositioning boon' for the interior portion before the first turn. i.e. You have your trooper equip screen as always, but next you have the base layout highlighted so you can click where you want each one to start from (maybe its best, like with troop positioning on ships, to assign alternate base starting locations in times of base defense and/if they're currently unassigned to a ship).

If alternate positioning of men wasn't in there, then otherwise, I think there'd have to be guns, mines, tanks or men outside to give you this benefit on the interior. That way, in case you didn't, it still feels like a suprise attack, with all your men not quite ready and spread out all over the complex.

#12 GARAK

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 11:44 AM

Another possibility is that you have to decide in the geoscape if you want defenders outside. That gives you another layer of protecting if the aliens attack. BUT that base, because of the people on the surface is more easily detectable to the aliens in the first place. It's a trade off really. Perimiter defences would come in handy if the aliens are going to attack anyway, but if they don't know the location, then its best to keep them underground. Once the attack begins you wouldn't be able to change your mind, it would be to late for that.

#13 mikker

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Posted 27 May 2005 - 02:30 PM

yes, a guard selection would be good. I am a bit unsure with guards just having a checkbox saying 'inside/outside'. Maybe having 'guard duity' as a 'job' for soldiers. I mean, when they're on guard, they can't train PSI or strength or anything - just guard. And maybe only guards can be selected to be deplayed? You can't move arround soldiers not on guard, but you can - in the geoscape - assign guard duity to which rooms of the base (not hangers/elevator shaft).

This gives another option, red alert. In this mode, no research is made, no building done (equiptment and facilities), and no training as every soldier is in guard mode. If you manage to get red aleart in time (say, 5 hours before assault ship land), you also get some extra defence equiptment deployed on the outside (turrets 'n such).

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#14 Snakeman

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 06:51 PM

Exactly mikker, kinda like what NKF was discussing...having a kind of duel roster for outside units and the ones that reside inside (but not assigned to ships).

I think I'd rather just dismiss the prepositining thing inside bases as prerequiste boon for something else, and just make it part of this "guarding mode" thing as you've said. Anyone you put in this mode for the inside roster or outside roster, you can give them precise placements to be and not have to think about it if you suddenly get a defense mission. They should spawn when the map loads in those places.

I also rather like that anyone in this mode cannot be currently in any training sessions. Their attentions are diverted elsewhere after all in this state. I'd suppose any other soldiers you have not on guard duty, or currently on a craft can still be in a training session, its just they can't do that and guard for example.

I can understand as well that there would likely be a good deal of micromanagement of these soldiers in the beginning, and even base layouts change and may require tweaks, but once you've settled in with those decisions later on, no worries. By default though, leaving things as they were before, spawn points rather random is still worthwhile as well, because if you've got a good deal of extra soldiers hanging about, prepositioning a lot of them won't be paramount. Probably only a select few by that point.

edit: Also Garak raises an interesting angle. By having units outside a base that had been previously undetected by the aliens, I think it ought to raise the stakes in some way that that is possible (Perhaps the Brain has been probing human minds around suspected locations).

But once the base has been found out, it shouldn't much matter that you'v got outside units. The base will periodically be seeing retaliation missions against it anyway.

Also perhaps this option is good for another reason: Because your discovered base will be seeing rerisals, and if your planning on ditching the place, being able to delay the aliens long enough to have essential personell transferred is one other possible need for an outter base fighting arena.

I know its not exactly the Battle of Hoth here, but discussing this got me thinking about it a bit.

Edited by Snakeman, 28 May 2005 - 06:59 PM.


#15 count_penta

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Posted 26 October 2005 - 05:08 PM

I think I see at least two other possibilities here:

1) when the attack happens you get to choose which soildiers go outside and which stay indoors. The ones you out outside can't enter the base before the mission is over (maybe they are fortified in thier bunkers or something. The aliens on the other hand have a specific mission; like reaching your control center and blowing it up. You can't possibly manage to shoot all the aliens before they reach the airlock/lift or one of the hangers so you have to leave enough soldiers inside to take care of them.

2) It's not actually a seperate mission. The top layers of the battlefield is the surface and the lift and hangars work just like normal elevators.


It's getting late here and I'm tired. let me know if this makes sense to you at all.

#16 MirariNefas

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 03:48 AM

Anyone seen those SWORD "mechs"? Those are pretty neat. They'd be good for reconning the insides of UFOs if they made it into Xenocide. SWORDs are basically small tracked vehicles, barely 2ft high. They can right themselves, and all the important stuff is at the back, so any flak from the front has to go through a load of stuff to actually disable one. They can be loaded with machineguns, rocketlaunchers or grenadelaunchers. biggrin.gif


I've found a pic of one here. They are indeed awesome. http://www.globalsec...n-swords-04.jpg

#17 sir_schwick

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 12:41 PM

Here is my idea on base defence and training in general. It does make sense that soldier would do the same kind of task, especially guard duty, for 24-7, for a month. Instead I imagine they rotate duties frequently for maybe 8 hr shifts. However you can still have some control over what is going on.

Each base has 'assignment quotas'. These quotas are the amount of commandos that need to be in any particular role at a certain time. Here are the roles....

External Defence - They are on guard duty outside.
Internal Defence - They are stationed near the entrances and always prepared for that fateful attack.
Psi Training - The number of soldiers receiving Psi-training is of course limited by facilties.
Research Training - Soldiers can spend time studying up with the scientists of the combat and engineering relevant side of alien and advanced technology. Accumulated time gives bonuses to such things as lethal or stun attacks and reduces morale penalties and accuracy penalties because of famliarity.
Fitness Training - Soldiers need to hit the gym and use some fo the advanced alien nutritional and enhancement techs to buff up. Time spent here contributes to better physical stats such as Stamina, TUs, Strength, and Health.
R&R - Soldiers need their rest as much as anyone else. 8 out of every 32 hours needs to be devoted to rest and recreation. Failing to provide that level of R&R will nto knock them out, but the more you go without rest the worse the penalties get. Up to one day past 32 hours results in minor stat and morale losses. Two days past it gets to moderate. Three days past it starts getting bad. Four days and beyond makes them pretty worthless. Seven days and they require hospitalization. For this slider though, it will be color coded to tell you if you are providing too much or too little R&R. A really well rested soldier performs no better than the rested soldier. Also, an Alien Entertainment related complex will allow a soldier to go an additional day without R&R for all soldiers in the base. It essentially acts like a mini-R&R session that can be done between shifts.

Now to base defence...............
I like the idea of having the surface and underground parts be on the same map, because it makes the ideas I have mroe intuitive. Basically the exterior defenders get what I call, two free turns before the aliens really disembark. This accounts for the advantage of seeing the ships come down. The interior defenders get one such turn.
As for distribution, the exterior defenders are in nice, camoflauged defense complexes right below the surface. The interior defenders are walking around or positioned within the entranceways. Everyone on a non-R&R assignment will be in there respective areas. Their weapons and gear(excluding armour, they are always equipped) will be in the rooms 'locker' type area. R&R dudes will be in various locations and their gear will be in the living quarters. Scientists and engineers can be given blanket orders such as 'retreat to this room' or 'hide in this room's emergency room(right underneath)'.
This allows for many strategies in base combat. First is the idea that even if you can't win or do much on top, every turn you delay the attack is another your non-defenders have to set-up. Also, interior defenders could come aid the top guys or vice versa. If you have other soldiers ready quick enough, they coudl join the fray as well. Of course combat robots on boths ides would be very important considering the amount of defenses around.

#18 Steelion

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Posted 03 August 2006 - 08:56 PM

How's this sound? Maybe a bit silly, but I like the idea. On the exterior of the base, it's basically the aliens versus any mechs you have on the base. This would, for feasablility's sakes, allow soldiers inside time to arm up, prepare, and stake out the interior entrances, while the mechs topside soften up the enemy. Of course, theres the problem of how the mechs would survive, How many people would build a few mechs just to have them destroyed if an alien battleship attacks?
Maybe a time limit. For 5 or 6 turns, it's alien versus mech. After the turns are over, any surviving walkers are keps, and remaining aliens head into the base proper. Maybe just give this idea a bit of thought?
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#19 rjpeers

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 01:37 PM

True, I've spoken on this before - the bit about fighting them outside your base prior to fighting them in your base - and came to the conclusion that this "outside stage" so to speak, I don't think should last that long. I feel that what the aliens want to do most is get inside, so their moves during their turns will be essentially a B-line to your entrances (lift and hangers), only shooting at whatever's directly in their path or reacting to whatever's not.

I think weapons like the one described, the transitional suit/tank if you will, would be ideal for sentry duty outside or inside.

Maybe to fight outside your base ought to be a selection you choose to do after base defenses failed and they landed - i.e. Meet them at the Door? Or Wait for them inside? Yes/No sort of thing.

It could make it interesting also...To have a reason to go outside your base on those times when the defenses did their job, now your going outside to inspect the wreck for anything useful. Before I've sort of imagined "No wonder they can find my base, there must be heaps of gleaming alien alloys from all the ships I blasted over my base acting as a beacon" heh.

I think this would only be a useful endeavour to take part in, say if there are any significant lag times between your last mission and waiting for the next which may or may not have shown up, but you've had retaliation attempts on you. Maybe there are other practicalities to exploring this, such as the fact that maybe your lift and hanger exits would've gotten obstructed if you didn't send someone out to clear it up.

Count me in on this. The idea of doing a 2-part base defense is really cool. It brings back a question that I remembered having too. When I succeeded at a base defense mission, why didnt I get to drag that battleship into the chop shop for parts and goodies? Having my own version of a Sectopod would be loads of fun...especially if I can use a couple for recon on recoveries.