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#1 Caid

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 06:04 AM

Maybe it would be nice to add another category of staff: alongside with soldiers, doing the dirtiest work, scientists, engineers and perhaps pilots, it would be nice to have also agents like MiB, which would seek out for alien infiltrators or maybe saboteurs, as well as ie controlling media (terror...) and of course even governments. Of course, only if you would increase infiltration ratio as a priority of alien activity.

#2 j'ordos

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Posted 17 June 2004 - 08:26 AM

I always thought something like that was already present, but handled in a more abstract way. After all, in xcom and tftd you could have the message 'xcom agents locate alien base in ...' popping up at the beginning of a month.
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#3 Guest_KillZone_*

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Posted 18 June 2004 - 11:52 AM

Some of the screens from UFO had that dude with the Case of money with a few dudes in black behind him...

Maybe make the Agents..better..I mean, you might have an Agent in each countrys government but do they tell you if Aliens are trying to infiltrate? Nope...meaning you dont have a hope without a HWD... :cussing:

#4 Guest_alex the greater_*

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 06:47 PM

yah mib would be cool but what if you could use them in combat...
thay would have defrent invintory screens (one 2x2 slot in chest, 2 vertacal slots in each sleave and 2 vertical sloots in each leag) not be able to whare armor and cost 5 times as much but be beatter traned

the equipment loadout is to prevent them from carying big guns

#5 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 09 August 2004 - 07:43 PM

Some of the screens from UFO had that dude with the Case of money with a few dudes in black behind him...


Yeah, maybe it was through the Mib the governments paid you, or perhaps part of your soldiers were mibs, you know, X-Com is supposed to have the best of the best, how else are they gonna defend a world? :huh?: , and who has experience dealing with the scum of the universe? let me see you nod your head like this! :happybanana:

Edited by Azrael151, 09 August 2004 - 07:44 PM.


#6 sir_schwick

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 11:29 PM

Maybe they could bring back teh MIBs from Deus Ex. After a while you can do expensive surgeries to create super-agents that had really pale skin. No nano-robots required!

#7 T-1

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 05:18 PM

You mean these MIBs?:
http://www.forumplan...072&tid=1339574

#8 GARAK

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 12:59 PM

I like this idea alot. The mibs are a counter to alien infiltration. Its like an underground propaganda war. The aliens get more infiltration points for a lot of things, like landing ufos in a country, flyovers, terror sites, landing in cities etc... The MIBs are expensive, and cost money every month. You as leader of xcorp allocate mibs to whatever countries you want to counter this, (while doing all the other stuff too). You can also research things for the MIB to make them better.
I would love that little extra detail in the game. I don't see how or why they would be engaged in combat though. There would be so few of them around, living in the cities, not in bases. How would they even get to the battlefield? Why would guys in business suits, even MIBs, go to a battlefield when there are elite soldiers that do that. This isn't the movie, and to base it off those corny movies would only denegrate this game.

#9 T-1

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 09:29 AM

Maybe they could bring back teh MIBs from Deus Ex.  After a while you can do expensive surgeries to create super-agents that had really pale skin.  No nano-robots required!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As you can see in that thread I posted, no nanites are used in the creation of DX MIBs.

#10 kelfka

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 10:40 AM

Maybe the MIBs could be spies sent in a country that stopped funding x-com to find out exactly why. And after you get the report or your agent gets killed you decide what to do with it.

#11 GARAK

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 05:41 PM

Lets not get started on this "attacking and infiltrating human nations" stuff again. There not "Up" to very much. They signed a cease fire not an alliance.

#12 T-1

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 07:14 PM

It's not a 'signing of a cease-fire' it's 'major leaders are getting mced'. And why not start on it? It's a valid topic.

#13 Shinzon

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 10:11 PM

I don't really see how the men in black could fit... The countries that signed a packt with the aliens were gone in the original, and that's what made it even more scary...

Mabe the MiB could be another faction? running covertly alongside X-com? Or even against it?

This could bring an entirley new faction... Who said the MiB had to be human or the current aliens... mabe they can represent the 3d faction that has been talk about... or the 4th? O.o

#14 T-1

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 07:23 AM

Sort of like Stargate SG-1's NID or the Trust?

#15 CopyBass

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 07:32 AM

Factions lead to Organizations. Organizations lead to Fear. Fear leads to Suffering. Suffering leads to Hatred. Hatred leads to the Dark Side. Or X-Com Apocalypse, whichever you prefer. Apocalypse WAS a good game, but I don't think they're gonna move towards it, Xenocide is more a glorified UFO Enemy Unknown
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#16 kelfka

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 08:55 AM

I don't really see how the men in black could fit... The countries that signed a packt with the aliens were gone in the original, and that's what made it even more scary...

Mabe the MiB could be another faction? running covertly alongside X-com? Or even against it?

This could bring an entirley new faction... Who said the MiB had to be human or the current aliens... mabe they can represent the 3d faction that has been talk about... or the 4th? O.o

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Why not an Alien controlled faction...kinda like a fifth column inside X-com.
The psychic Aliens like the grays or Cloaks, could implant a sleeper agent during mind control in battle. This agent could do some sabotage and if the victim is psychic enough it could make copies of him self in other soldiers, scientists and technicians. If there where ever to be discovered it would be an other valid base fight. And if you donít find them in time they would make there move to take over the base and a really big base fight would begin...half of the people in the base would be infected.

#17 T-1

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 10:18 AM

That should definitely only be in harder difficulties.

#18 kelfka

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 10:27 AM

Well in easy mode it would be less difficult to uncover the fifth column and enemies are easy. :D

#19 GARAK

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 11:12 AM

I just think some people are moving farther and farther away from what the original xcom was about in not one, but several entirely new games. The way this is going there's going to be hundreds of messages every month about all the different factions, attacks, base operations, world wars, mibs, nation interceptions, etc. It would take years to beat the game, and I don't mean game time.
Someone has to play the devils advocate you know.

#20 T-1

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 11:52 AM

If the interface isn't designed by someone braindamaged, you shouldn't have that many messages. It's represented by shifting borders on the world map. Also, all messages should have a "don't ever bother me about things like this later" checkbox. Or, you could have a little ticker at the bottom of the screen that shows current stuff happening, if you click on a button, it maximizes and theres a history of recent events, and if you click on one, it'll bring up a more detailed dialog box.

#21 kelfka

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Posted 25 May 2005 - 12:07 PM

I just think some people are moving farther and farther away from what the original xcom was about in not one, but several entirely new games. The way this is going there's going to be hundreds of messages every month about all the different factions, attacks, base operations, world wars, mibs, nation interceptions, etc. It would take years to beat the game, and I don't mean game time.
Someone has to play the devils advocate you know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


And it would take longer to make it.
Perhaps your right but this tread is in "After V1.0..." so people have the right to tell new ideas.
Yes, a devils advocate can be useful but donít forget that "Project Xenocide" is not a copy of "X-Com" but a game inspired by it. Therefore it wont be the same

:OffTopic: But this is getting off the topic of this tread. You can always start a new tread to play the devils advocate.

#22 Shinzon

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 07:04 PM

theese are Labrotories designed for people to rant about x-com and what might be cool to implement... then in a truly democractic fation the subject is dusccused, approved, considered or blammed...

But I think that the MiB shouldn't be a part of the gamplay but rather some sort of ressearch item, that could possobly lead to some sort of easter egg, or hint on the next chapter in the human struggle?

#23 Snakeman

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Posted 26 May 2005 - 08:50 PM

But I think that the MiB shouldn't be a part of the gamplay but rather some sort of ressearch item, that could possobly lead to some sort of easter egg, or hint on the next chapter in the human struggle?


If they're not to be part of the gameplay, then I would suppose this to be the next best alternative. Some kind of side research relating to ongoing secrecy perhaps or just ensuring it better? Maybe this branch of research should simply be lumped in among a general 'politics' (or 'MiB enhancements' sub branch) branch that encompasses among other things, speedier deliveries when purchasing items or just conducting transfers, resistance modifiers against infiltrations upon you and your base assets (brings down chances that aliens would use this network to find you that way - i.e. coming back on you through your own supply network).

Something occured to me while playing another game, Star Wars Rebellion. True, its not the best example when it comes to the click intensive stuff, but something about the way it used special forces got me thinking about this. I liked most about the way they were just there to perform one or two jobs, espionage or sabotage (I think there's another for reconnaissance, but that's what our interceptors do anyway).

You select them, then their target destination, and forget them. If they succeed or fail, all your waiting for is a status message one way or the other, to know if you need to send more or go in with your troopers. They were still units even though they were nameless icons. The only problem I have with Rebellion though is the ability to select several of said unit with one click, then execute the mission.

Anyway, that's just another example if they were to be controllable units. Rather than be controllable on the Battlescape, they could just be used for Geoscape locales. Select the nameless MiBs you want, select the destination, then from a dropdown (if there's to be more than one mission it can do) choose espionage, sabotage, or in the case of protecting supply lines in ground transports, escort.

The way I was thinking the ground supply escort mission could work, could be easier to just have dotted highlighted lines (you can click to turn on to view) and one other known end of the line (whether it be a base or some nondescript X on the map where goods are recieved in the pipline to or from a base). The units don't have to be controllable like Battlescape units, because these are essentially 'behind the scenes units' taken in this context. You'd basically be at the whim of how ever many units you've assigned to a task, but also to what research enhancements you made in the politics branch & MiB sub-branch. All you'd need is a way to monitor from time to time how many for this mission need more added. (i.e. A message could pop up after so much time has passed like "Route Secure" or "Infiltrators captured, but we've sustained losses and request MiB backup. Supply route will have to be altered" or "Lost transmission from Supply Convoy").

But again, if the units are to be uncontrollable, these research enhancements can just augment what already serves you behind the scenes.

#24 Exo2000

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 05:57 PM

theese are Labrotories designed for people to rant about x-com and what might be cool to implement... then in a truly democractic fation the subject is dusccused, approved, considered or blammed...

But I think that the MiB shouldn't be a part of the gamplay but rather some sort of ressearch item, that could possobly lead to some sort of easter egg, or hint on the next chapter in the human struggle?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


They probably shouldn't be ACTIVE in gameplay, but more like suggested, as agents in the government to keep you updated on the things the governments don't want you to know. Organised meetings, etc.
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#25 Snakeman

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Posted 28 May 2005 - 06:16 PM

Exactly Exo, sort of like, a head's up prompt, that could let you know what places could benefit from a little ribbing from your troops, in terms of going to fight in places that do not have to just be downed ship sites or alien bases.

Take again for example the idea of designating supply routes your stuff would be routed through to your bases, and for argument's sake, one of these routes gets compromised. Perhaps there can be alternate ways to get material in to them as well or new routes formed that came from an unorthodox source. But then, I'd suppose any routes they envisioned would be sort of unorthodox to begin with given the security concern in their line of work.

#26 mikker

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 04:25 AM

I belive the MiB are on your side. They tell you where the occational alien base are located. They are the ones who put down data to your charts. They are the ones representing you in the council. They are the ones who gives out warnings on who might be close to going over to the aliens. They are the ones organizing your purchaces of weapons and crafts. They might even give you a heads up on special missions, in V 1.0+.

So they have a passive, but very important, duity in the X-corps.

Edited by mikker, 29 May 2005 - 04:26 AM.

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#27 Shinzon

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 06:52 PM

even if they do become part of the gameplay, they shoudn't fight aliens... but more like Hitman style try to assasinate or kill a target and get out without getting noticed...

but they should remain a less passive force, though their "cool factor" shoudn't be deminished... thats why I suggested an assasination or something or mabe an infiltartion...

#28 Exo2000

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Posted 29 May 2005 - 11:35 PM

I belive the MiB are on your side. They tell you where the occational alien base are located. They are the ones who put down data to your charts. They are the ones representing you in the council. They are the ones who gives out warnings on who might be close to going over to the aliens. They are the ones organizing your purchaces of weapons and crafts. They might even give you a heads up on special missions, in V 1.0+.

So they have a passive, but very important, duity in the X-corps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Exactly what I meant. :D

Though they'd have plants in other governments to keep track of the situations there as well. MMm, intelligence networks. :)
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#29 Snakeman

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Posted 30 May 2005 - 09:33 AM

Wouldn't it also be nice, that their intelligence gathering abilities could point you to hot spots just before they become hot spots?

For example, knowing ahead of time which city is next in their Terror campaign, and then, granting you the ability to land there first and let them run into you instead of the other way around. It could be nice to have a turn or two before they arrive as well, to preposition men or try to wrangle the civies to a part of the map you can defend easier.

edit: Also, we've never had UFOs at Terror Sites before. This intelligence method could allow for us to run into one every so often on those missions by being there first.

Edited by Snakeman, 30 May 2005 - 09:35 AM.


#30 GARAK

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 05:18 PM

Yeah, I guess there are ways of implementing these things without endless messages. If the MIBs told you about future "hot spots", that would be cool. It should be shown on the geoscape as a different color area, kind of like in Sim City when you want a crime map. Darker or brighter colors, that kind of thing.
The nameless MIBs performing espionage or sabotage sounds EXACTLY like the way intellegence services worked in an old favorite of mine, "Birth of the Federation." You sent agents to Earth or whatever and they, if on sabotage, would try to blow up stuff, or occasionally steal a ship. It was a lot of fun, especially against live opponents.

#31 jtgibson

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 04:28 AM

If you look closely at the scene where the man holds the briefcase, the silhouetted men behind him are all wearing standard X-COM body armour. The scene most likely depicts an X-COM operative offering a sizeable amount of money to some underground corporate contact in order to purchase the commodities that X-COM sustains itself on -- the X-COM operatives are a show of force. Those transactions are off the books, so X-COM pays in cash.

X-COM is a totally covert international organisation. Based on how UFO Defense works, the governments slip it tiny amounts of money, anything that won't be noticed, and hope the organisation can handle the problems. If the auditors discovered the United States was spending $25B on counter-alien activity, there would be mass panic: so, they do what they can to keep everything under wraps, by paying just a few million dollars -- decoy projects in the regular budget that can easily be recycled as "failed research programs" -- and doing their best to clean up after X-COM comes in and mows down an alien invasion force. "No. You did not see aliens land. This was the result of a terrible chemical spill in a downtown research facility. This is Dr. Woodard, who will explain the hallucinatory symptoms, and offer any counselling you may require. He's also going to give you a mild sedative which will help correct the symptoms..."

So it's a safe bet that X-Corps follows the same M.O.


As for agents as an actual unit... I say it's a fairly good idea. Agents would be less skilled at combat than soldiers (how many CIA operatives can shoot better than a Navy SEAL?), and only capable of being armed with a pistol (whether laser or standard). They would participate in base defence only if the number of available soldiers was less than 8 -- otherwise they'd just be a liability and get themselves killed... but if you have less than 8 troops at the base, it's assumed you're desperate for every steady hand you can get. For every missing soldier, 1.5 agents, rounded down, will participate; however, only the maximum number of agents that can be armed will appear (i.e., if you have no soldiers, 12 agents should be active, but if you only have 8 pistols, then you'll only get 8 agents).

The primary value of maintaining agents is, of course, their ability to make contacts. Every month, the number of agents you have is used to determine:

# The UFOs you detect outside of sensor range. This reflects your agents monitoring media and public rumours in the field.
# The UFO activity you learn of, which is made available within PegasusNet. Even if you don't know about the alien activity for a given month, it will still affect your score!
# The prices of the commodities you buy. This is generally only enough to offset the costs of having the agents in the first place.
# The chance of noticing that a government is in negotiations with the Xenos before they cancel their X-Corps funding. This also allows them an opportunity to sabotage the negotiations the hard way -- by assassinating the negotiators, and blaming it on the aliens. (Espionage is a rough game, kids.)
# The chance of successfully locating an alien base.
# The reduction in the negative impact of terror missions and the like on your score. Your agents are highly trained spin doctors, capable of assisting government cleanup crews.
# The number of potential deals you can receive from various corporations who want you to give new technology to them (and let them claim invention of the tech) in exchange for wads of cash.


However, I believe the original game assumes that the player is leading the organisation from some sort of front on the surface world. His employees in this front company (which appears to be a stock trading corporation even to a dedicated observer) are actually his agents. Thus, the game might not have any place for agents within the military bases, which are presumably ruled from afar at a non-represented command location.


Sorry about the necromancy, BTW.

Edited by jtgibson, 03 August 2005 - 04:33 AM.


#32 Penta

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 08:09 PM

Random commentary:

In Washington, there's an infamous expression, rupetedly from former Speaker of the House Sam Rayburn: "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon we're talking real money."

The X-Corps budget (going by XCom's budgets) is thus ludicrously small. I would not be far off, I suspect, if I said that the government spends more on printer paper per year than they were supposed to for X-Com.

JT Gibson: Um, wrong game with the cover. You might be thinking of the old "Floor 13". Which was an excellent game, if impossible to win, or survive for more than a month.

#33 jtgibson

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 07:01 PM

JT Gibson: Um, wrong game with the cover. You might be thinking of the old "Floor 13". Which was an excellent game, if impossible to win, or survive for more than a month.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Nope. I drafted that with the exclusive knowledge of X-COM (I haven't played any other X-COM game except UFO Defense, either), as well as filling in between the lines and my own creative liberties.

If you discovered your government was spending 32 billion dollars per year on alien counter-attack operations, would you be worried? Outraged? I know I'd be, and probably a lot more in addition.

I have no idea what Floor 13 is. ;-)

Edited by jtgibson, 16 August 2005 - 07:03 PM.


#34 MirariNefas

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 05:53 PM

MIB agents in missions sounds like a good idea, but lets be clear that they'd be acting only in special mission circumstances. For instance, if there's enough alien infiltration the aliens may attempt a governmental assassination or coup, and you'd have to respond with your MIBs that are on scene. There could also be hunting missions, where MIBs with alien scanners try to track down the parasite controlled human before he escapes high-security facilities, or something of that sort. It might also be reasonable to use them as first responders to terror missions, and have your main unit show up around turn ten or fifteen. They certainly wouldn't be assaulting alien bases or securing downed craft, though.

#35 GARAK

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Posted 29 June 2006 - 05:02 PM

I would be outraged if the government was only spending 32 billion to fight the aliens. 320 billion would be a more accurate number, but still not very much considering the threat in the game.

#36 Snakeman

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Posted 03 July 2006 - 07:19 PM

I think jtgibson's idea that agents could be used to fight the aliens only when filler units are necessary or desired is a good one, however I've now been thinking of the MIBs more as a commodity of sorts as an alternative way to see them.

Maybe on some level, its a good idea that an X-COM commander type, though he wouldn't run the intelligence branch (mainly act on it), might be inclined to be apart of the screening process. True, maybe they still remain nameless icons on a sheet, but perhaps they could have two, three or four screening type skills i.e. a number representing sabotage, one for espionage and a firing accruacy rating for if it were to have a cameo appearance in battle for you (regardless of what weapon it carries, or you give it during battle) and a final one for Psi Defense.

I think restricting their use in battle is a good one though. If they appear at all, they should only appear at high value locations that they gave you intelligence for, such as the "hot spot before its a hot spot" idea, and possibly only then as jtgibson mentioned, if your projected to be shorthanded (or simply if its a good idea whether or not an extra controllable unit seems warranted based on opposition level projected by the game).

If the template idea is implimented where you set the stat level of whoever you keep based on their sheets (so hiring and sacking is a seamless/automated affair - based on current cash levels on hand as well), this would make aquiring them a little easier (availabity is a separate isssue however and is a roster dictated kind of thing).

True, while at first they come to you through your recruiting base of choice, when they are deployed, their new permenant location is to whatever city you send them to, alien base, or other non-crash site of interest. You can send more than one if you think it should speed up data flow or to replace a lost agent (through behind the scenes mishaps).

I suppose there might be situations where redeployment of a MIB is warranted though. For example, to formulate further clues to a new point of interest from where it was means moving that agent or sending a new one to that new locale to get you that last bit of knowledge of impending action.

i.e. Agent based in Madrid sends message about a meeting at farmhouse outside of town or something which forms a new MIB deployment option to get you more data. You redeploy it there (could just be a checkbox for that agent to move it), and in a few hours discovers something else you need to take action on.

Maybe the underlying idea is that you were in a position to bust up a high level meeting involving the aliens' brainwashing of that country's leaders to sign a pact. The agent wouldn't have to be present durning the smackdown, unless you were underequipped or low on manpower at the site when it forms. After the mission ends, if the agent is alive, it goes back to its safehouse or whatever in Madrid being that his sphere of influence is Spain in this case.

An alternative to redeployment to the new point of interest could simply mean that its a new place you can go to, but you would go in with less intell about the situation. It could have involved hostages or some other scheme of some sort, but you wouldn't know about it if an agent wasn't able to tell you more by being sent there.

I don't know, but from a postion of maybe playing it out in a way where you want to be surprised might be fun (to deliberately hinder what intel you want to try to obtain so you wind up with a self imposed pot luck scenario).

Edit: Another way to use them if the game evolved toward a deteriorating market situation as a result of too many countries signing pacts (forcing X-COM to move toward self sustaining meaures which translates basically to a barter system) are the formations of resistance cells essentially run by a MIB leader. Or better yet, think of them as military advisors in a sense.

The best story driven way I can think of why this is possible lays directly with the notion of Psi Defense. Because every person you hire has one, it stands to good reason that any humans left in the world after major power shifts would be those with only the best Psi defense ratings. (Note: I don't believe Psi Skill should ever enter into it - while untrained to use Psi and even unknowingly that they have the potential, its Defense that matters - *besides, going with the notion that X-COM is the only outfit capable of training skill and with resources and space at a premium, unlikely able to train up these cells).

*Not that X-COM couldn't provide the Psi Lab and amp technology independently to cell groups, just that they wouldn't do their training for them.

So, by this late game stage, because the MIBs' counter intel has basically failed (their ability to be convincing to a populace that aliens don't exist or what I like to call their "Move along, there's nothing to see here" ability :)), their counter intel role shifts to one of planting false leads in the aliens hands, but also introduces a kind of resistance success/fail rate based entirely on what your able to provide them in a barter system. Again, I wan't to emphasis this is largely behind the scenes things happening and the only reason you'd ever run across a MIB or cell members is if data brought you to a place they were based at.

The country graphs might also shift as well. Boarders may be different, but what would stay the same I'd reckon is a cell's region of influence (for lack of another name designation)

Edited by Snakeman, 03 July 2006 - 08:18 PM.