X-net Operatives Database

[GreatGold]

Very nice...

[Kenshiro]

Or, with service star:

[GreatGold]

Hey -

 

I think, when textured, they look excellent. You've done a lot today, so don't feel rushed, but do you think you could make a Dress Unifrom jacket, perhaps based in the Air Force, and attach some ribbons to it? Just to see how the ribbons would look on a jacket.

 

Here's a pic describing what I mean. Although, for the long term, I think it would be best to design our own dress uniform, distinct in design to X-Corps.

 

Gold

[hippyjon]

i think the hostile engagement and basic training ribbons dont seem to stand out and just fit in with the various area service ribbons. apart from that i think it should work.

[GreatGold]

Hey -

 

I was just thinking, I would like to keep the ribbons to the ones listed above. Heres the list again, now with specific names in quotes (these are just ribbons, no medals):

 

SERVICE RIBBONS
- Induction into Xenocide
--"Induction"

- One Ribbon for each promotion
--"Rookie"
--"Squaddie"
--"Sergeant"
--"Captain"
--"Colonel"
--"Commander"

- First Successful Mission
--"Xeno Campaign"

- First Kill
--"First Blood (too cheasy,somone help me out)"

- Improvement of Stats past a certain point
--"Expert Marksman - Accuracy"
--"Recon Operative - TU's"
--"Heavy Weapons Operater - Strength"
--"Psionics Cognitive - Psioinics"

- Completetion of Campaign
--"Xeno Campaign Complete"

 

These ones would all need a ribbon and a medal:

PER MISSION
- if you kill 15 aliens in a battle
- if you kill all aliens in a battle
- If you heal 10 fatal wounds (any distribtion of soldiers)
- if you capture 3 or more aliens
- Purple Heart

CUMULIATIVE CAREER
- 100 confirmed alien kills
- 200 confirmed alien kills
- 400 confirmed alien kills
- Survive 30 missions
- Survive 60 missions
- Survive 120 missions
- Cumulative total of 100 healed fatal wounds

 

What do you think?

Gold

[Kenshiro]

I'd be happy to take on the Uniform. I'm transitioning to a mids schedule starting tonight, so I'll be up for awhile in need of something to keep me occupied. I'm thinking something with a Mandarin collar look would be cool.

 

As to the ribbon list, here's where I see the ribbons above plugging in:

 

Basic Training Ribbon can be renamed Induction Ribbon - no devices on this one

 

Longevity Ribbon gains one device for each promotion; having a new stripe is significant enough for moving up without extending the rack any further; after all each operative could have up to eight rows if they are decorated enough - that's a frickin' brick and a half. Two more for promotions might be too many ribbons.

 

The Veteran's Ribbon is designed for the first mission out; adding devices for additional missions is optional. It could be renamed.

 

First kill could be awarded the Hostile Engagement Ribbon; Additional devices could be given for each mission in which the operative makes a kill at all unless awarded a more important medal

 

Expert Marksman is already provided.

 

I think there should be a Commando/Recon device worn seperately on the uniform instead of another ribbon - how about:

 

High TUs - Recon badge

High Strength + Expert Marksman - Heavy Weapons badge

High TUs + High Strength + Expert Marksman - Commando badge

 

Psionics Training Ribbon awarded for completion of Psi training; no devices

 

Killing Aliens:

These should be based on points; it's a lot harder to kill 10 mutons/saucers than it is to take out 10 sectoids so the mutons could be 5 points each and the sectoids 1 (or whatever, just throwing these numbers out). 10 points or so should be the minimum for getting a decoration. Some missions, even killing all the aliens shouldn't get you anything more than a CSM; other missions two or three might get a CSM and one might get a DCSM or something.

 

So, from least to most points, numbers to be determined:

 

Combat Service Medal

Meritorious Combat Service Medal

Distinguished Combat Service Medal

Cross of Heroism

Medal of Valor

Note: the last one should be awarded only if the operative receives at least one fatal wound AND gets an insane number of points

 

Heal 10 fatal wounds or save all citizens in a terror mission - Defender Medal

 

Capture 3 or more aliens - Need to add a ribbon for this - Suggestions on names?

 

Get wounded - Blood Cross, then devices for each additional time; one per mission max.

 

Each 100 kills - Century Medal, then devices

 

For Surviving each 30 missions - Order of the Rifleman, then devices

 

Cumulative Total of 100 healed fatal wounds - Need to add a ribbon for this - How's the Mercy Cross for a name?

 

Anyway, I'll post again later with some updates. Comments?

[Kenshiro]

By the way, that's the Army's Blues, but they're sharper than the Air Force's in my opinion.

[GreatGold]

Hey -

 

Yup, your right about the unifrom, it was just an example . So, I like the names, but when you update the concept, if you could break it into the following:

 

1.) Ribbons (for standard acheivements)

2.) Awards per Mission

3.) Awards per Career

 

Also, all of them need a quantitative "tag", such as the ones I suggested. Personally, I think that we shouldn't over-do it with ribbons and awards. They lose their value if you can get one for tieing your shoelaces! So I think for now, we should stick to the KISS principle.

 

Also, I like the idea of having a fourth group, Badges, for the statistic oriented awards. It's a nice touch. Perhaps if some of the artwork people would like to come up with some uniforms and badges, we could see some diverse examples?

 

So, my main thoughts for the moment are: lets not over-do it. If we have perhaps 9 standard ribbons (thats two rows, plus one straggler), and then another 9 awards (both per mission and per career, bringing us to a total of four rows of four with two straglers), with perhaps one or two more ribbons, that would be a heck of a stack. Also, under the stack, you have the rows of medals, that go with the awards. Then, on the shoulder, I guess you would have the badges. I'm not sure, but I believe most badges would also have a ribbon?

 

So, five rows of four ribbons each for a total 20 (give or take a few), which sounds like more than enough. So lets try to keep the total to that for now. We can always expand should the need arise. It will look impressive on a decorated soldier to say the least.

 

Lastly, I have no problem with half the ribbons and half the awards being easy enough to get, but the rest should actually be worthy of their name. So lets not make things too easy, and of course, it could be reletive to the level the player plays at.

 

Thats all for now,

Gold

[Guest Jim69]

Hmm, I don't actually think even half should be gotten very easly. From just a glance u can see if an army officer has had a distinguished career by two or three rows of ribbons on his jacket, and if it was possible to get two rows of ribbons very easily, whats the point in having them?

 

I say have two or three ribbons that are easy to get, and the rest are quite hard, so a soldier with 3 row u know is 1 badboy.

 

(BTW, when I say rows, I think each row is about 3-4 ribbons, but I don't know. )

[Kenshiro]

This is just a rough draft, but what about a design kind of like this for the X-Corps uniform:

 

The ribbons go in the yellow area, the stripes go in the green area, and the Recon/Heavy Weapons/Commando badges go in the red area. A click on the picture would bring up a closeup of the red/yellow/green areas so you could more closely look at the decorations etc.

 

Ponder for ya - Should we use the rank insignia (see seperate thread)

A) on the sleeve for enlisted, and on the shoulder for officer

on the sleeve for enlisted, and on the collar for officer

C) everyone on the sleeve

D) everyone in the same place but elsewhere (specify)

E) officers and enlisted in seperate places, but elsewhere (specify)

 

Comments welcome on uniform scheme.

[Nickisimo]

Well, all this medals stuff seems really sweet, but I think we have to be careful to only give out medals for reasonably heroic or exceptional deeds. Like you guys were saying, we can't just give out medals for everything or it would defeat the whole purpose.

"For throwing your electro-flare into the unoccupied field, we would like to present you with this Bronze Star"

 

and 400 career kills? Man...let someone else kill something once in a while. I think the highest I've ever had was about 100...and that was when I had full psi and could have beaten the game months before(but I was happy moving from alien base to alien base psi-ing their guys and wiping out the whole base without firing a single shot.) :happybanana:

[Breunor]

The dress uniform looks very nice, and the various medals sound good too. I'd leave out any that are related to being part of X-Com, as that's a given really. Perhaps the rank can be on the collar, like a general's stars?

 

The last I heard, the soldier model will have the head seperate from the body, perhaps the uniform could be a 3D torso that has the medals on it, and the matching soldier head sits on top. If you click on the uniform, it either zooms in to the medals or switches to another screen with a close-up. The latter would probably work better. You could have the medals on one side, and when you hover the mouse over one a text description appears on the other side of the screen.

[GreatGold]

The ribbons go in the yellow area, the stripes go in the green area, and the Recon/Heavy Weapons/Commando badges go in the red area. A click on the picture would bring up a closeup of the red/yellow/green areas so you could more closely look at the decorations etc.

 

Hey -

 

I think you may have left out an area of the medals themselves, which traditinally have gone in the "red area". Otherwise, looking good. A thought would be to move the green area further down the arm, and then have badges on the shoulder.

 

Also, to everyone worried about the diffculty of getting an award: the AI will be significantly more advanced then X-Com's, and as such, it will be that much harder to get a medal. BUT because the game itself is harder, I imagine that there will be more oppurtunities for a soldeir to excede in the field.

 

Gold

[Kenshiro]

Actually, full size medals haven't been worn on any major military's dress uniform since about the turn of the century (exceptions to this are the types of uniforms worn to military balls or certain ceremonies such as the Army and Air Force mess dress or Marine Corps dress blues; then medals are worn instead of the ribbons representing them).

 

By and large, only ribbons are worn with uniforms like Air Force Service Dress and Army Class A's, which are intended for most other formal military occassion. On these uniforms, it is common to see qualification or special duty badges below the pocket, but not medals. Official photographs are typically taken with this type of uniform and are they are most suitable for the personnel jacket.

 

The exception to the no full-size medals rule is during a medal presentation ceremony, when a commander will pin the ribbon to the pocket flap when presenting the award in front of the unit; however, the full size medal is removed following the award and another ribbon on the rack is substituted.

 

Looking at our X-Corps rack above, we should probably eliminate the seven regional service ribbons. X-Com by its nature is expeditionary, not a garrison force, so having awards simply for deploying is probably redundant. That leaves us with just 15 of the above, plus 2 more - the "Mercy Cross," and the alien capture ribbon making 17

 

The Longevity Ribbon also now occurs to me as redundant - I mean, you get the rank insignia, do you really need another decoration on top of that? So that's us down to 16.

 

Now that I think of it though, who does the credit go to for capturing the aliens? The whole team? Or do we award a medal to the guy just because he happened to be carrying the small launcher? You could award extra points for capturing aliens instead of killing them in determining the award of the combat medals. Maybe we should eliminate this decoration as well, which gives us just 15 total. That's 5 rows of 3 for the most highly decorated possible operative (it's unlikely that one operative will get all the decorations anyway), which is still a reasonable amount, and only about 4 to 5 ribbons altogether for your typically veteran squad member (a single row of three with one or two on top). That makes more sense.

 

As for moving the badges/stripes I think you're right. I was basing the placement on the Air Force dress uniform and if we go for a more Army look (which actually makes more sense) that's where they should go. Most of the countries in the X-Com funding list use that convention anyway, so let's go with that.

 

I'll whip up a new order of precedence with these changes.

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

I think the longevity is worth having in there. Given the way the rank/promotion system works, being there a long time isn't neccesarily the same as being of high rank. Once the upper slots are filled, there's not much chance for promotion (aside from attrition).

 

--The Captain

[Breunor]

IMO the longevity award is already represented by several of the others. If you kill 100 aliens, or get through X missions, etc., that shows the veteren's longevity as well.

[Nickisimo]

I agree...a soldier's continued survival in those times is admirable(or lucky?). How about special patches for the first 8 soldiers you get in the beginning? Usually a handful of those guys make it through the first trials. They could earn some sort of respect being the first guys to fight the aliens with 9mm's and M16's(blech).

[Kenshiro]

Here is the revised order of precedence. Gold- decided to take your advice on the color scheme, since minus about half the rack the colors weren't balanced very well anymore.

 

The Veteran's Ribbon and Order of the Rifleman awards reflect experience. The longevity ribbon was rendundant since it only reflected promotions, which rank insignia cover already.

 

My feeling is that the Veteran's Ribbon could be awarded for the initial mission, then each 5 missions, thus preventing it from getting overloaded with devices and making it a little bit more worthwhile. Then we could present the Order of the Rifleman for mission 25, and each 25 afterward, which makes the Veteran's Ribbon top out at one silver star.

 

 

Feature creep idea: Remember the old Wing Commander series? When you got a decoration your character got a whole promotion ceremony cut scene - that was cool and we should think about doing something like that. Maybe not as elaborate as they did it, but something.

 

Anyway, for now, here's the rack as it stands now:

[GreatGold]

Hey -

 

I'm still unsure of some of the ribbons and their "tags", would it be possible for you to make a small table and post it? Unless you just want to do the graphical side, in which case I can create the tags. As it is now, I think we have all the awards/ribbons needed, except for perhaps a Unit Citation?

 

The Unit Citation would be good for those missions where a whole squad does a great deal. Or it could be awarded to a squad that loses no one, and manages to accumulate a large amount of points. I imagine an amount that would take roughly 10 average missions - so without losing a single soldier from the squad, it would be a worthy award.

 

Also, you make a good point about the wearing of medals, I was not aware fo that. So this leaves us with three options:

1.) We just don't use medals. I do not like this option.

2.) We only show the medal when it is pinned after a mission. A compromise.

3.) We break from tradition, and always have the medals and ribbons shown. Personally, I favor this one, as it would undoubtedly look the most interesting. Also, if we do the patches on the shoulders with the ranks chevrons further down the sleeve, I think it would work.

 

What do you think?

Gold

 

ps - to everyone follwoing this thread, I think we have pretty much determined what actions will be tagged and put into the the Operatives Database. What we need to do know, is play MadLibs. Remember that game?

 

We need to figure out how to make the wording of the tagged actions in the database interesting, and not repetitive. So if anyone has ideas, now is the time.

[Nickisimo]

Unit citations would be nice, but snaps to Ken for that work...that looks good man.

 

Gold, what do you mean by tagged actions within the database? Throw out some examples. :happybanana:

[GreatGold]

Hey -

 

For any of these ribbons/awards to be won, the soldiers obviously must complete some task. These tasks are the "tags", which the BattleScape engine will track and them export to the X-Net. Once in the X-Net, the tagged actions will be turned into the appropriate entry, whether it be a promotion, award, ribbon, combat history entry, etc.

 

Here is a small sampling of the award/ribbon tags (note, the names will be changed to correspond with Ken's ribbon names):

SERVICE RIBBONS
- Induction into Xenocide
- One Ribbon for each promotion
- First Successful Mission
- First Kill
- Improvement of Stats past a certain point
=== for example, if yor soldier has 75 accuracy he recieves the accuracy ribbon; smae idea with strenght, TU's, etc. Each gets a ribbon
- Completetion of Campaign (I suppose all surviving soldiers would get this after Cydonia)


So here is your list, with some new things and changes:
PER MISSION
- if you kill 15 aliens in a battle
- if you kill all aliens in a battle
- If you heal 10 fatal wounds (any distribtion of soldiers)
- if you capture 3 or more aliens
- Purple Heart

CUMULIATIVE CAREER
- 100 confirmed alien kills
- 200 confirmed alien kills
- 400 confirmed alien kills
- Survive 30 missions
- Survive 60 missions
- Survive 120 missions
- Cumulative total of 100 healed fatal wounds

 

Other tags include kills, which weapon was used, etc (some of these tags would just be from a name, nationality, etc database):

PER OPERATIVE (no Tags needed from Battlescape)
1.) Name
2.) Nationality
3.) Date of Birth
3a.) Current Age
3b.) Gender
4.) Date of Xenocide Commission
5.) Previous Military Service
-GS9, CIA, Secret Service, SWAT, Delta, FBI, Army, Marine, Navy, Air Force, to name a cery few possibilities
6.) Previous Military Rank
7.) Stats (at that exact moment)
8.) Current Base
9.) Current Aircraft Assigned
10.) Psi Training
11.) Health Status

PER MISSION (tags needed; combat record)
1.) Mission Type
2.) Mission Date and Time (start time, end time)
3.) Mission Location
4.) Mision Weather
4.) Alien Type

**I think each player should name every mission as they like. Here is the reason: if the player names it, we don't need to come up with a list of a thousand possible names, and then still end up sounding repetitive. Lets say it was a terror mission that the player really messed up, they can name it "Massacre of the America, 4-12-11". At the same time, if they don't care about creativity, they could just as easily name it "Terror Mission 4-12-11". In any case, when the player looks into the dossier, it will be more personal and easier to remember the mission.
**Here is a possible example of how the above info would be presented:
"Operative X engaged Etherials at the battle of the Massacre of the Americas on April 12, 2011. The battle was fought in the great city of New York, which was reduced to ruble, during the night time raid. The battle lasted from 2342 Zulu to 0121 Zulu under fair conditions."
[A description of the battle, such as "reduced to ruble", could be deterined from the missions score roughly]

Also, there should be an option to enter notes about the battle in the dossier, on a scratch-pad type thing, if the player chooses. These notes could be about the operative, or the battle.

5.) Alien Kills
a. Weapon 
b. Range
6.) Alien Captures
a. Weapon
7.) Weapon Accuracy
a. Type of Weapon
b. Total Shots/Total Hits (and a percentage)
c. Psi Attacks
8.) Injuries/Psi Take-Overs
a. Length of Psi take-over
b. Times hit
c. Weapon hit with
d. If healed, and by whom
9.) Misc.
a. Helped to heal
10.) Stat Improvements
a. Before/After mission

Cumulative Carreer

Same as above, but obviously a cumultaive table at the bottom of entry.

 

So basically, everything that needs to be in the X-Net, needs to come from somewhere. Most are frm the BattleScape - a few are from other external databases.

 

Hope that helps. Also, keep in mind that the above tags are not final, and open to suggestion.

 

Gold

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

Here's breakdown of Kenshiro's ribbons (very nice, btw).

 

Anyone care to do the thresholds for awarding them?

 

Edit: Removed 'cause I got it wrong.

Edited July 1, 2003 by Cpt. Boxershorts

[Kenshiro]

The world's elite units-

 

This list was pretty comprehensive already so I didn't hit it up too hard, but if anyone sees any omissions, please let me know.

 

Here's the list:

Elite_Units.txt

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

Mad libs! Yay! :happybanana:

 

Here's a starter:

 

 

For valor above and beyond the call of duty, we award you with this /medal name/

 

/name/, receive this /medal name/ for exceptional courage under fire.

 

For your amazing display of courage for saving the life of your fellow soldier while under heavy fire, we award you with /medal name/.

 

To recognize your /skill name/ abilities, we award you with this /medal name/.

 

For exceptional actions on the feild of battle, wear this /medal name/ proudly.

 

For your service to the people of /country name/Earth/, accept this /medal name/, and wear it proudly.

Edited July 1, 2003 by Cpt. Boxershorts

[Kenshiro]

Sorry Box - those are a bit out of order.

 

Let me repost with a more easy to read format:

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

Heh...I was worried about that. Thanks.

[Nickisimo]

Hmm...criteria for some medals is fairly clear...like the "Defender Cross" should be awarded to a soldier who uses a medi-kit X number of times to help comrades.

 

Then there are others that are vague. The Distinguished Service Cross could be awarded for any number of things(longevity, kills, kills/mission rate, alien leader/commander capture/kills). Sounds like the CT dept. has plenty of work to do! :happybanana:

[Kenshiro]

For your shopping convenience, some of this has already been covered on previous pages of this thread.

[Nickisimo]

Very cool system Ken...I'm sure we'll all have some gripes with some of the values, but that's gonna be a really sweet feature. Nothing like seeing the team hero dressed up like a christmas tree with medals.

 

I'm not sure how high-quality the character models are going to be, but maybe in the char info screen next to the player's stats, medals can be shown too, just incase you forget which of your guys is the one going for the mark of the rifleman cross or whatever.

 

That's another thing that this system adds...a desire to earn particular medals. Now when a certain soldier nears 25 kills, they're will be a certain want to send him/her into the fray in hopes of getting that perdy lil' badge of honor.

[Kenshiro]

Here's a suggestion for the breakdown:

 

Induction Ribbon - All new operatives get this for joining X-Corps.

 

Expert Marksmanship Ribbon - Accuracy reaches 70%

 

Psi Training Ribbon - Completed Psi training, Psi Skill reaches 60%

 

Hostile Engagement Ribbon -

Awarded to operative upon killing or stunning an alien; stars devices added for each additional mission where the operative kills or stuns the enemy to a maxium of 1 silver star (representing 5 awards)

 

Veteran's Ribbon - Awarded for initial mission, then star devices for missions 5, 10, 15, and 20 maxing out at one silver star

 

Blood Cross - For getting wounded on a mission (by whoever, whatever), diamond device for each subsequent wounding (one per mission max)

 

Order of the Rifleman - For surviving 25 missions, then diamond device for each additional 25 missions.

 

Century Medal - For 100 kills/stuns, then additional diamond device for each 100 thereafter.

 

Defender Medal -

- Healing 3 (5?) Fatal Wounds in one Engagement or

- Healing 10 Fatal Wounds Cumulatively, unless part of those 10 already got the soldier awarded the Defender Medal during a single engagement or

- (everyone on the team gets this) Rescuing all civilians in a terror mission

Diamond devices are used for each subsequent award

 

Mercy Cross - Healing 100 Fatal Wounds Cumulatively (Getting the Defender Medal does not disqualify for this award), diamond for ea 100 after

 

Combat Ribbon Points :

For eliminating aliens (note this grid will have to be adjusted by playtesting or looking at stats; I'm just going off memories of playing X-Com in determining values)

 

Name of Alien (Kill pts/Stun pts)

Sectoid (1/2)

Celatid (1/2)

Ethereal (4/6)

Floater (2/4)

Snakeman (3/5)

Muton (4/6)

Chrysallid (4/6)

Reaper (5/6)

Cyberdisk (5/NA)

Sectopod (5/6)

Silacoid (2/3)

Cmd Ctr (10/NA)

Alien Brain (50/NA)

 

Special Stun Bonus to points above:

Navigator - *1.5 (rounded down)

Leader - *2

Commander - *3

 

For getting hit -

1 points/nonfatal wound

4 points/fatal wound

 

If squadmates get killed/mutated/mc'd by aliens - Multiply earned points * (1.0 + 0.2 for each squadmate killed) (rounded down)

For killing friendlies - Earned points * (0.5 - 0.2 for additional friendlies killed) (rounded down)

 

We might consider adding multipliers based on weaponry used (*2 for pistol, *.5 for heavy plasma, etc)

 

To determine combat ribbons, you add up the points that the operative got, and then award as follows:

 

Combat Service Medal - 15 points in a single mission, or 50 points cumulative if not awarded otherwise

 

Meritorious Combat Service Medal - 25 points in a single mission, or 100 points cumulative if not previously awarded the MCSM

 

Distinguished Combat Service Medal - 35 points in one mission, or 200 points cumulative if not previously awarded the DCSM

 

Cross of Heroism - 50 points in one mission

 

Medal of Valor - 60 points in one mission, plus received a fatal wound

 

The soldier should at most only get one combat medal per mission, whichever is the highest they are eligible for.

 

No one should get decorated for anything if they fail the mission, and any awards they would have gotten on the end of that particular mission for cumulative effort are put off until the end of the next mission.

 

All combat awards use diamond devices for additional awards.

[mikker]

how are the soldiers supposed to get 50 points for killing the brain? The game ends at that point

[GreatGold]

Great work, here are some thoughts:

 

Induction Ribbon - All new operatives get this for joining X-Corps.

Yup, I don't think anyone will have a problem with this one.

 

Expert Marksmanship Ribbon - Accuracy reaches 70%

Perhaps this should be a higher percentage, around 80-85%. I think an even nicer route would be for a soldier to recieve this ribbon at 70% and get a Marksman Ribbon, at 80% get a bronze star added on for Expert Marksman, and lastly at 85% be awarded a silver star (take of the bronze) as a Master Marksman.

 

Psi Training Ribbon - Completed Psi training, Psi Skill reaches 60%

Same idea as above, with varying degrees for skill improvements.

 

Hostile Engagement Ribbon -

Awarded to operative upon killing or stunning an alien; stars devices added for each additional mission where the operative kills or stuns the enemy to a maxium of 1 silver star (representing 5 awards)

I like this, but I do not think there should be a limit so early. If I recall correctly, you can fit up to 5 silver stars, so perhaps we should cap it there.

 

Veteran's Ribbon - Awarded for initial mission, then star devices for missions 5, 10, 15, and 20 maxing out at one silver star

Same as above. Or perhaps, we could make it more difficult: ribbon = 1, bronze star = 10, 2nd bronze star = 20, until 50 missions, which would get a silver star. Then for each new silver star, it should be either 25 or 50 missions.

 

Blood Cross - For getting wounded on a mission (by whoever, whatever), diamond device for each subsequent wounding (one per mission max)

Fully agree.

 

Order of the Rifleman - For surviving 25 missions, then diamond device for each additional 25 missions.

I don't really see the difference between this one and the Veteran's Ribbon. Perhaps if the soldier recieves this for 50 missions, regardless of his actions? It could then be seen as an elevation over the Veterans Ribbon. Something like "yeah, I'm big and bad, because I made it to 50". Whereas a lot of people would make it to 10 or so, get a Veterans Ribbon, and then die.

 

Century Medal - For 100 kills/stuns, then additional diamond device for each 100 thereafter.

Sounds good, I think your right to include stun with kills.

 

Defender Medal -

- Healing !5! Fatal Wounds in one Engagement or

- Healing 10 Fatal Wounds Cumulatively, unless part of those 10 already got the soldier awarded the Defender Medal during a single engagement or

- (everyone on the team gets this) Rescuing all civilians in a terror mission

Diamond devices are used for each subsequent award

I think there should be seperate medals for Per Mission and Cumulative actions. I like the Defender Medal being a form of Unit Citations, though. Mabe a Rescue Medal for single missions, and a Defender Medal for cumulative?

 

Mercy Cross - Healing 100 Fatal Wounds Cumulatively (Getting the Defender Medal does not disqualify for this award), diamond for ea 100 after

Yup, I like.

 

Combat Ribbon Points :

For eliminating aliens (note this grid will have to be adjusted by playtesting or looking at stats; I'm just going off memories of playing X-Com in determining values)

 

Name of Alien (Kill pts/Stun pts)

Sectoid (1/2)

Celatid (1/2)

Ethereal (4/6)

Floater (2/4)

Snakeman (3/5)

Muton (4/6)

Chrysallid (4/6)

Reaper (5/6)

Cyberdisk (5/NA)

Sectopod (5/6)

Silacoid (2/3)

Cmd Ctr (10/NA)

Alien Brain (50/NA)

 

Special Stun Bonus to points above:

Navigator - *1.5 (rounded down)

Leader - *2

Commander - *3

 

For getting hit -

1 points/nonfatal wound

4 points/fatal wound

 

If squadmates get killed/mutated/mc'd by aliens - Multiply earned points * (1.0 + 0.2 for each squadmate killed) (rounded down)

For killing friendlies - Earned points * (0.5 - 0.2 for additional friendlies killed) (rounded down)

 

We might consider adding multipliers based on weaponry used (*2 for pistol, *.5 for heavy plasma, etc)

 

To determine combat ribbons, you add up the points that the operative got, and then award as follows:

 

Combat Service Medal - 15 points in a single mission, or 50 points cumulative if not awarded otherwise

 

Meritorious Combat Service Medal - 25 points in a single mission, or 100 points cumulative if not previously awarded the MCSM

 

Distinguished Combat Service Medal - 35 points in one mission, or 200 points cumulative if not previously awarded the DCSM

 

Cross of Heroism - 50 points in one mission

 

Medal of Valor - 60 points in one mission, plus received a fatal wound

 

The soldier should at most only get one combat medal per mission, whichever is the highest they are eligible for.

I like this system, but we'll need to put A LOT of thought into it. Lets get some more ideas on this, and I could see some varient of this concept being used.

 

No one should get decorated for anything if they fail the mission, and any awards they would have gotten on the end of that particular mission for cumulative effort are put off until the end of the next mission.

Fully agree with this.

 

Aight, lets get some more opinions on this. I'll be directing the senior members here, as I want their input.

 

Gold

[Kenshiro]

  Perhaps this should be a higher percentage, around 80-85%. I think an even nicer route would be for a soldier to recieve this ribbon at 70% and get a Marksman Ribbon, at 80% get a bronze star added on for Expert Marksman, and lastly at 85% be awarded a silver star (take of the bronze) as a Master Marksman.

Killer idea. I love it. Same with Psi ribbon.

 

  I like this, but I do not think there should be a limit so early. If I recall correctly, you can fit up to 5 silver stars, so perhaps we should cap it there.

Two silver stars is all you can realistically place on a ribbon. Since they're worth 5 bronze stars, you'd get 6 stars across (two silver, four bronze) before you hit the third one, and you'd go over the sides. One is usually better since silver and a bunch of bronze crammed onto a ribbon looks a tad awkward.

 

I don't really see the difference between this one and the Veteran's Ribbon. Perhaps if the soldier recieves this for 50 missions, regardless of his actions? It could then be seen as an elevation over the Veterans Ribbon. Something like "yeah, I'm big and bad, because I made it to 50". Whereas a lot of people would make it to 10 or so, get a Veterans Ribbon, and then die.

I kind of pictured Order of the Rifleman picking up where the Veteran's Ribbon leaves off, for the silver star space isssue mentioned above as well as to give a sense of progression. We could easily increase the missions to be eligible for these medals, but I'm not sure how many players would see these if we did. Having replaying X-Com recently, even my Commanders only had around 32 missions when I finally got to Cydonia, and that was with only 2 bases equipped with landing vehicles. I think the balance we should seek is to make it unusual and difficult to get these awards, but not so much that players won't know it's even part of the game.

 

  I think there should be seperate medals for Per Mission and Cumulative actions. I like the Defender Medal being a form of Unit Citations, though. Mabe a Rescue Medal for single missions, and a Defender Medal for cumulative?

We could give out a Rescue medal, to be sure, but is there really enough difference between the actions to justify a different award?

 

We could do also team/unit awards seperately but this seems like a complication we should avoid at least for now.

 

how are the soldiers supposed to get 50 points for killing the brain? The game ends at that point

Well, who says it has to end right then? We could still have an end of mission decoration award for your troops. I always wished X-Com would let me review my accomplishments at the end, tally up the stats... something. Not that the end of the storyline wasn't satisfying, but wouldn't it have been cool to get a rating or score or somesuch at the end. A bit better closure.

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

Edit: Terrible spelling, another thought

 

Another thought on the brain/mission complete awards....it'll leave it open for V1+ type sequals with the same teams (the way xcomutil allows you to import xcom1 units into xcom2).

 

I really like the skills progression idea.

 

 

 

  I like this, but I do not think there should be a limit so early. If I recall correctly, you can fit up to 5 silver stars, so perhaps we should cap it there. 

Two silver stars is all you can realistically place on a ribbon. Since they're worth 5 bronze stars, you'd get 6 stars across (two silver, four bronze) before you hit the third one, and you'd go over the sides. One is usually better since silver and a bunch of bronze crammed onto a ribbon looks a tad awkward.

 

I don't really see the difference between this one and the Veteran's Ribbon. Perhaps if the soldier recieves this for 50 missions, regardless of his actions? It could then be seen as an elevation over the Veterans Ribbon. Something like "yeah, I'm big and bad, because I made it to 50". Whereas a lot of people would make it to 10 or so, get a Veterans Ribbon, and then die. 

I kind of pictured Order of the Rifleman picking up where the Veteran's Ribbon leaves off, for the silver star space isssue mentioned above as well as to give a sense of progression. We could easily increase the missions to be eligible for these medals, but I'm not sure how many players would see these if we did. Having replaying X-Com recently, even my Commanders only had around 32 missions when I finally got to Cydonia, and that was with only 2 bases equipped with landing vehicles. I think the balance we should seek is to make it unusual and difficult to get these awards, but not so much that players won't know it's even part of the game.

 

Just for aesthetic reason, I'd have to agree with Ken here. The Vet's Ribbon would look pretty cluttered with all those stars. A single star looks elegant, more than four would look trashy.

 

 

  I think there should be seperate medals for Per Mission and Cumulative actions. I like the Defender Medal being a form of Unit Citations, though. Mabe a Rescue Medal for single missions, and a Defender Medal for cumulative? 

 

While I would prefer to go with Gold's idea of seperate medals, I think we should limit it to 15. To do this, we have to dump one of the others.

 

 

Regarding Ken's elite units list, I would think it would be pretty easy to combine this with names database. When the continent and ethnicity are selected, it picks an appropriate group off the elite list.

 

Nice work, Kenshiro!

 

-The Captain

Edited July 1, 2003 by Cpt. Boxershorts

[GreatGold]

Hey All -

 

Two silver stars is all you can realistically place on a ribbon. Since they're worth 5 bronze stars, you'd get 6 stars across (two silver, four bronze) before you hit the third one, and you'd go over the sides. One is usually better since silver and a bunch of bronze crammed onto a ribbon looks a tad awkward.

I don't have as much experience with how this looks, so I'll take you word for it . This means we can either cut off the award earlier, or make it harder to get the next start. We can play around with this later.

 

I kind of pictured Order of the Rifleman picking up where the Veteran's Ribbon leaves off, for the silver star space isssue mentioned above as well as to give a sense of progression. We could easily increase the missions to be eligible for these medals, but I'm not sure how many players would see these if we did.

I think we are seeing the same thing then, because I agree with the idea that it should be awarded as the next, and much harder to achive, installment. We can play around with the exact numbers during the beta, though. IT will most likely depend on the final AI.

 

Having replaying X-Com recently, even my Commanders only had around 32 missions when I finally got to Cydonia, and that was with only 2 bases equipped with landing vehicles. I think the balance we should seek is to make it unusual and difficult to get these awards, but not so much that players won't know it's even part of the game.

Yes, I see where your comming from. But, the thing to keep in mind, is that the AI will be markedly more difficult. To the point where on any level other than Beginner, I would expect it to take MANY missions to win.

 

Also, lets also not forget, there is a lot of talk of tying X-COM 2 into the game. It would be sweet if players could use the same soldiers in the next installment, with the same medals, ribbons, etc. Obviously the stats would start from zero, though, as the soldiers would be in a new terrain.

 

We could give out a Rescue medal, to be sure, but is there really enough difference between the actions to justify a different award?

I'm not sure either, but in general, I would like to keep Per Mission awards different then Career ones. As Cpt. Boxershorts pointed out, though, being practical may win out.

 

Over-all, it appears we are basically at a concencus. The minor details can always be tweaked later on. Next up it to prepare a mock-up of the Operatives Database GUI, and a design document to present to the senior members and coders.

 

Gold

Gold

[Nickisimo]

Yeah I'm playing the game again on diff. level 2 and it's Aug and I can already do the Cydonia mission(no psi). I think I have a guy with about 30 missions, 20 kills, and he's my leading vet. Perhaps we should tone down some of the requirements a bit.

And 5/6 for a Reaper? Even my team medic killed one of those walking carpets. :happybanana:

[GreatGold]

Hey -

 

Play a game on SuperGenious. Then see how many missions it takes. Also, and I'm going to say this till I'm :o blue in the face, Xenocide will be harder and more balanced than X-Com was. Also, if you don't believe me, ask Micah about the new AI and its difficulty level. It will be, to say the least, a lot harder.

 

I can easlily forsee a two year campaign, with hundreds of missions. And if you manage to finish sooner than the average, yes you've beat the game, but I assume you did it so fast as to not have given your squads a chance to excel. I mean, it should be like "HOLY CRAP! I finally got that stinking Distinguished Combat Medal!" Not, "Damn, everyone in my squad except person X has it."

 

Perhaps I'm a tough donkey, but I really think harder is better than easier. Especially in this case. However, I'm keeping an open mind. We will definatley have to fine-tune these numbers and tags once the beta is prepared.

 

Gold

[Nickisimo]

Oh I agree with you...I think we need to up the difficulty level a bit. I laugh everytime I see a Chryssalid with plenty of TU's walk around the corner of a dark building, walk up to my helpless soldier and then turn around for no reason and walk away, only to be zapped dead the next round. Reapers are no exception.

 

Don't take my comments as slight. I'm really impressed with the medal system and how sweet that's gonna be when the game is rollin'. A harder game would definitely force the user to really explore the game(making a bunch of bases, seperate ground forces, more base defenses, etc)

 

I would imagine that if a lot of the bugs were taken out of the original game, the difficulty would be upped quite a bit. Just yesterday in an alien base invasion I saw(heard, really) a snakeman fire a blaster bomb into the top of the control center and kill himself, and 3 of his comrades(commander and leaders probably). How dumb. And those things have a supposed accuracy of 120%

[GreatGold]

Don't take my comments as slight.

 

I never do, donna worry.

 

On another note, does anyone reading this thread have any experience drawing up design documents? If so, please let me know.

 

Gold

[Nickisimo]

Again, for the unenlightened(me), what do you mean by a design document? Like a Gaant chart or something?

[[[Micah]]]

GG: Maverick has been upkeeping the project's design document. Drewid has some solid experience with them. What did you need?

 

Nickismo: A design document is like an outline of a paper for literature class. It outlines the highpoints of an entire game, or can get specific to just a certain part of the game, explaining what the creators want to do with the game.

[GreatGold]

Hey -

 

Well, I feel that this concept has come along enough to be added to the main design document. So, I was hoping I could recruit someone to help me put an offical one together, other than one of the senior members. This is because I already see how little time you all have, and how much you all are doing. I'd co it myself, but I'm starting to get in the same boat.

 

@Nick

So, basically, this design document would put together all the finalized concepts in this thread, in one document, that could be given to the senior staff and coders. It would just make things flow a lot smoother, I think, than having to reference the coders to various fragments of this thread. Also, an official document would make it easier to critique and improve.

 

So, any takers? You'd get to work up close and personal with me, if thats any consolation !

 

Also, Kenshiro and I have begun to put together a GUI for the Operatives Database, expect some visuals in the days and weeks to come.

 

Gold

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

If no one claims it by Friday, I'll do it. Unfortunately, The Real World ™ is interfering until then.

 

I thought when you finished college, you didn't have to write papaers anymore!

 

--The Captain

Edited July 2, 2003 by Cpt. Boxershorts

[Nickisimo]

Yeah for some reason I thought I would have all the time in the world once I finished school...

 

I'm still trying to find some time to do my 2nd draft on the High Explosive...I want to check out the links that you sent me, Gold, and make it a lil' snazzier than last time.

 

We'll get there...just gotta keep pluggin' away when we can.

[GreatGold]

Hey -

 

Real life comes first Captain, just let me know when your're good to. Also, the more people helping with this the better, anyone else?

 

Gold

[Cpt. Boxershorts]

Is there anywhere I could see some of the existing ones? Just so I can follow the same layout and file format.

 

-The Captain

[GreatGold]

Captain -

 

PM Maverick about it, he has a copy.

 

Gold

[[[Micah]]]

Links to the files are kept in The Library forum.

[Kenshiro]

Alright, here's my first draft of the X-Net Operatives Database. Note, there are variations on this screen based on whether you research Psionics and/or train your soldier, but here is the basic layout. I'll post all 3 if someone wants me to, but otherwise I'll spare those with bandwidth limitations. I'm still working on the zoom view for the soldier's awards and decorations, although it will show up as a pop-up window.

 

For now, ignore the stats in the Performance Ratings section versus the ribbons displayed on ol' Sergeant DuChamp's chest; this is just a mockup.

[Kenshiro]

Note also: It might be a good idea to add the ability (or at least a link) to fire or transfer an operative from this window. I'm also debating an "all" button which gives you a list of all your soldiers, not just the ones assigned to a particular base. These items would be added to the blue field in the bottom right hand corner area, near the base selector. Suggestions/Opinions?

 

Edit:

Here is what that corner might look like.

Edited July 3, 2003 by Kenshiro