Deimos Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 The model concepts thread is getting a bit long and diverse so I think it might be a good idea to split them into more manageable chunks. This one is obvious (well I hope so anyway ) Something no one has approached so far is the heavier side of the human tech. So with that in mind I've been looking through my Jane's guns guide and i've come up with a few ideas for the heavy cannon and autocannon. In the pic are the Barret 'light' 50 and it's successor the M82A2. Also there is a 14.5mm Gepard M3 (the green one on the left). The one on the right is a Hughes X34 Chain gun which, mixed and modified with the other guns in the pic could make a nice autocannon (maybe use a similar system to Mikker's heavy laser) The bottom rifle is a 12.7mm PGM hecate II. I was thinking that to have the AP, HE and Incendiary ammo types in the original game and to represent the damage they did we should have big nasty looking rifles that look like they could put a 'hole through the world'. I like the idea of a big muzzle brake on the end. "We need bigger guns..." Rutger Hauer in Split second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted May 29, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 Doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 For the autocannon, I like the idea of the minigun design, spinnin' barrels of death. For the heavy cannon, perhaps one of those designs above could be used, but have the body and barrel wider, and the barrel a bit shorter. It would give them a more massive look, without making them too big IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubik Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 OHH! Heavy Cannon! MINE! MINE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drewid Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 It's going to have to be shorter than those though. It should be <1m long so the guys in the skyranger can turn round without sticking the guns into each others nads. Go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubik Posted May 29, 2003 Report Share Posted May 29, 2003 Heavy Cannon, Ufopedia version, 732 polygons: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubik Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Tweaked Heavy Cannon, 522 polygons: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drewid Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Rocket launcher. - nice. Thats easier to see whats going on. works well. Cannon also cool. like the muzzle flash hider and the grips.I'm thinking it would look cool if the scope was built in like the OICW. Can you try it out just to see? It should save a few polys as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubik Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Something like this? Made the drum magazine bigger as well, 458 polygons: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red knight Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 For Ufopaedia use bigger detail models (like 6000 or so polygons)... GreetingsRed Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 That is because bouth of them are not talking about ingame. For the engine rendered items I believe they want 1600 polys for characters, and 6000 for the premade renders used in ufopedia. I would guess that 500 to 700 polys should be more than enough to get detail across in battlescape. Texturemapping should be able to handle the rest. Overall the RL and cannon are starting to take shape nicely. I do have a few suggestions for you: rocket launcher: put a bevel on the forward grip edges to make it a bit more rounded. it shouldn't add too many more polys and it'll make it look a little more realistic. try doing the same thing for the grip and trigger assembly for the cannon. Also try to make the the handle a little thinner since the person using it needs to be able to get their hand around it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest drewid Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 In game the guns will be tiny. so for instance a 500 poly pistol would mean 4 or 5 polys per pixel (blarrrrp). but for a BIG gun that would be OK. we might need a mid range version for the arming screen. Still yet to be tried out to determine if this is the case. We might do this as a .PNG instead. We'll have to try it when we get there. The pedia will be a 3d object rather than a still render. I was suggesting that 1500 - 2000 would be adequate for this. Red Knight is lead coder. So if he says 6000 then thats cool, Gives us plenty of scope for nice round barrels etc. BUT this is a limit not a target, if anyone turns in a 6000 poly pentagon knife they will be ridiculed in public. don't use more than you have to, and don't make polys that won't be seen. BTW Are we going to be doing something like this?http://crytek.com/news/index.php?n=news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted May 30, 2003 Report Share Posted May 30, 2003 Yeah, the higher poly model would be for the x-net screens, showing a nice render or animated/spinning model. A rendered shot could also be used in the arming screen. In game, the poly count needs to kept low, so that's where the 500 or less idea comes into play. For the high res version, a more accurate limit is 3500 polys, as that's the technical limit for Milkshape 3D. It can handle higher amounts, but becomes unstable. Since it's the 3D standard that's being used for the game at this point, it determines the poly limit. At this point the more important task is making the low poly versions for the battlescape, since the x-net pics are not needed to play the game So I'd focus on the 'around 500' goal for now. Once everything's done, we can come back and divide edges or whatever is necessary to round/smooth things for high res shots. Personally, I'd prefer the animated view in x-net, which could use the lower poly model as well. Then there's no need for the high poly versions. Once textured, I think most items will look very nice. The other limit of 1000-1500 is for soldiers and aliens, and the larger objects like aircraft and HWP get even more due to their size (assuming they need the extra detail). Every model is built with the goal of as few polys as possible, but when it starts to hurt the looks when viewed at battlescape resolution, then a balance has to be reached. As Drewid said, the weapons are so small in game that a lot of detail is lost. Try this out if you like: Set your resolution to 800x600, then zoom your perspective view out until the weapon is a similar size to the original game, less than an inch long I'm guessing. When there's a texture on it, how much detail are you going to see between a 1000 poly gun and a 350 poly gun? Even zoomed in, I doubt the weapon would be more than 2 inches long in the game. The shots people are posting here are far larger than they'll ever be in the battlescape. btw Cubik, your designs have been looking really good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gambino Posted June 3, 2003 Report Share Posted June 3, 2003 I'd like to do the heavy cannon if no one else is doing it.... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubik Posted June 3, 2003 Report Share Posted June 3, 2003 Well, I have already made a version of the Heavy Cannon, but if want to make a model based on the OICW, go ahead. I was asked to make one of those to, but maybe we can co-operate making it, or make a version each and let them battle to the death . Hmm, that last suggestion doesn't sound like something people working in a team should do And are we going to include more guns than UFO had? I don't think that it will something that will throw of the games' feel or balance.: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted June 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2003 For V1.0 we're sticking to redoing the original. Which means staying true to the same amount of guns and gun types. Same goes for all the models. FWIW the OICW is an assault rifle and has been suggested ages ago that it should be the replacement rifle for the game. The heavy cannon and Auto cannon should be heavier that a Squad support weapon, hence why I suggested somehting in the .50 cal 12.7mm 14mm range. For the autocannon someone posted a multibarrel design which would work well and the heavy cannon that Cubik posted could shape up to be the HC. IMPORTANT:The weapons we are designing now will be used in the X-net (ufopeadia) and will have to stand up to close scrutiny. We have discussed the poly limit for the X-net and though we are still considering it your models should go no higher than 3000 polys. That is the absolute top limit. Please post only flat shaded models on a 50% grey background. The senior art team are currently discussing the procedure for submitting work. Once we have settled on a procedure we'll post it in a new thread. As you all can appreciate we are still settling down into the project as it's new to all of us so please bear with us if we don't have a definite answer straight away. Getting upset or annoyed because of conflicting information isn't going to help anyone. We're all still learning how game development works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gambino Posted June 5, 2003 Report Share Posted June 5, 2003 something interesting...a 20mm sniper rifle...vietnam i believe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 (edited) I had no idea where to post this so I thought I would start here and then move into the workshop if needed. There is an equivalent to the Heavy Cannon in real life... that is, there is a man portable rifle that fires a cannon round. It's the Croatian RT-20. It fires a monsterous 20x110mm cannon shell. http://world.guns.ru/sniper/rt20_1.jpg It's bolt action, but I was thinking you could take that design and combine it with the Barrette M2a2 bullpup, over the shoulder fired rifle.. http://world.guns.ru/sniper/barrett_m82a2.jpg And you would have a cannon that is capable of firing different ammunition types that is man portable like the one in xcom. For more information about these sniper rifles, visit world.guns.ru Edited September 2, 2003 by fux0r666 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenshiro Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 Very interesting. Although classified as an antimateriel sniper rifle, that gun does indeed fire a round designed for anti-aircraft guns. Technically the action makes it a recoilless rifle, but with a round of that size it probably fits the bill for a "heavy cannon" (still a misnomer) closest. Crazy Croatians. I'd hate to be the poor bastard to have to hump that thing around, much less fire it. You'd probably be bruised for days. Fur, you and I should compare notes sometime. I think this should probably move to the existing HC discussion, however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackAce Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 I couldnt find the topic where the rifle designs are discussed, so I created one, I hope there wasnt any previous topic upon rifles that I missed... I designed two rifles, first one is standart rifle, 7.62 caliber, 45 rounds of ammo capacity, overall lenght of weapon is 77cm, barrel lenght is 50cm, ammo feed is similar to FN P90 (feeding from above) Second one is a 20mm cannon, but Im not sure about its caliber because case radius is around 20mm, but bullet (projectile) caliber is 14.7 mm, check the pictures you will notice... (especially the Heavy Cannon w/ EO) Ammo capacity is 7 rounds, barrel lenght is 106 cm and overall lenght is 135 cm http://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/Assault_Rifle_1.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/Assault_Rifle_2.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/Assault_Rifle_3.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/Heavy_Cannons.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/Heavy_Cannon.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/Cann...ifle_Scaled.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/Heav...n_Wireframe.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/Heav...on_EO_sight.jpg I hope you like these designs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackAce Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 NOTE: If it says "cannot find the page", please copy and paste the URL to your browser, linking manually works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 (edited) Could you post pictures on a lighter background (medium grey or something like that)? Allows for better judgment and tearing apart (j/k) Check the assetlist to see what's done, afaik there are a few concepts and models for the assault rifle but nothing completely finished yet, and nothing for the heavy cannon apart from a placeholder pic... So nothing wrong with some extra concepts edit: also, the last pic doesn't seem to work Edited October 23, 2003 by j'ordos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 (edited) Nothing at all, the more the merrier imo When you do post it against a lighter background could you flatshade it as well plz? I think the version of a heavy cannon you have there is good. Edited October 23, 2003 by Jim69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackAce Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 next time I will render them on a lighter background, some of them are on lighter background already ( anyways, I didnt notice any difference, because my eyes get used to models after couple of hours modeling) and I can also send them in flatshade format if your concern is to see model without effects. but I will do these later, Im very tired for now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackAce Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 To see EO sight on Heavy Cannon here is a new URL (I dont know why it didnt work, URL was correct) http://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/HC_EOS.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustedSoul Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 looks good , the url worked when i did save as... so it might have somthing to do with remote linking you should think about taking the stand off, or bulking the stand up a bit other then that it looks great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 More concepts are always welcome. You have up to 500 polys or so to work with btw. Look for a thread called human guns under the Images forum I think. As mentioned the assetlist includes other concepts as well. Including a rendered shot is fine, we normally start off by showing the model flat shaded to get an idea of the structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 I really like your heavy cannon. It looks like some monster of a rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackAce Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 here is one, I just couldnt sleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackAce Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 and the second one, thx for the suggestions, I will keep improving the models, and I have a quite good idea for Auto-Cannon... just wait, by the way, the scene has over 25k of polys, but I will get it under control, those bullets are real monsters, cya all later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 While I'm not too fond of your assault rifle concept I do like that heavy cannon. A few suggestions would be to make a cushioned but for it as it is now I'd hate to shoot that thing. Second I would rework the bipod, it doesn't look very substantial and has a "TV" antenna look to it. (maybe use an M249 as referance for the bipod). Next I'd redo the scope, it doesn't fit well with the design and I think it really takes away from it. The final thing would be to pull it together more. Right now that but looks a little overextended from the barrel. Maybe just extending the casing on the front back to kind of tie the two together with make it feel more solid. other than that it's a great start to the cannon concept. Has a nice OICW big brother feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 Yes, nice cannon design. Does it need the bipod? Maybe for a high-poly X-Net model (which these should be btw), but in the battlescape it wouldn't be necessary. And I should correct my previous comment on polys-the first model should be the high poly version for the X-Net display, and can be up to 6000 polys or so. It's the battlescape model that comes later which would be under 500. So you might not be too far off when it's just the heavy cannon in the scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustedSoul Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 i just could'nt resist.... it's a fantasic rifle... so just to make sure your mind is still flowing with great ideas i threw this in for concept Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted October 23, 2003 Report Share Posted October 23, 2003 I'm not sure, I like the original barrel better. It just looks more like a modern 20mm hand-cannon. Yours, RS, may be better as a shotgun (if that is ever implemented) or as a autocannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackAce Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 (edited) Thx fellas, first, I would like to give my opinion about the EO sight on top, (Vaaish) I dont like to mount an old binocular kind scope on to this quite advanced rifle, adding a similar sight on M4 Rifles (which are used by US Special Forces) would be better, and giving some shade cover and making it look more advanced was my concept so it fits quite well to that,(*) however I agree that its quite hard to use sight due to back part of rifle, I will modify it. second, I think it should have a long barrel to absorb the shock of the blast and to increase accuracy, other wise it could be hand held field gun this was the main concept regarding to X-Com I think, but I doubt such weapon could be usefull(**) third, Im currently designing weapons for X.net, and I think that we should add some images displaying how weapon works, reloads could be some wireframe models in background (like in Apoc) these could be interesting, After then, it wont be too hard convert models into low-poly models. *I have to attend to a exam early morning today, after then, I have a loong weekend ahead of me so expect some modifications based on your suggestions and totaly new models! **About heavy cannon, and about how much heavy should it be, I think that auto-cannon and heavy cannon should fill each other gaps, because an auto-cannon (if hand held) cannot go further than standart rifle due to its caliber if your aim is to shoot and kill foes in few shots rather than turning a foe into swiss cheese (Terminator thing) SO, I suggest that heavy cannon should be bulkier but give a stand-off capability and with AP, HE and I ammo it could be devastating, on the other hand auto-cannon should have increased RoF by trading off power and long range, so it can be used in close-combat more effectively, (I use AC in X-Com against sectoids and cyberdisk, very effective (however, HC is more effective) Briefly my idea is, HC should be a sniper/anti-armour weapon and AC should be a mix of shotgun and assault rifle so you can use this "toy" in indoor areas. So, what do you suggest? PS: I will try to model AC today... (dont worry I wont do any fantasy on that, Im thinking of something new but completely modern and real) Edited October 24, 2003 by BlackAce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 My concern with the sniper rifle concept is that there is no clear place to shoulder it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I like the longer barrel as well, the modded concept seems pretty bulky. But that's not a bad thing really. For the scope, perhaps Vaaish was thinking this kind of scope? It's more substantial for such a big gun, would it tie in better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I perfer the mult-barreled concept for an autocannon personally. Of course, if we decide on going with a shotgun/assault rifle hybrid for the AC, I can enjoy that too. (Especially if it looks like that one that RustedSoul posted, that was pretty, and it looked similar to the H-C, but not too similar (because of the much shorter barrel.) Also about the autocannon, you should probably make the bullets smaller and make about 14 (was that the xcom 1 number?) of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 A modified version of the top part of the OICW should be the Autocannon IMO, it fires big bullets with nade like properties exactly the same as in the X-Com Auto Cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 Well, the OICW fires small grenades with some electronic components for controlled airbursts. I don't see any reason why you would need multiple barrels to fire grenades. It's not like you have a need to fire 6000 grenades a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 (edited) That is true, what it fires are grenades that resemble bullets, they are around 20mm which is about what the Autocannon fired I think. It could work, I would rather it was based on something that actually exists. I'll try and get a picture of the "bullets" it fires. Edited October 24, 2003 by Jim69 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaaish Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I like the longer barrel as well, the modded concept seems pretty bulky. But that's not a bad thing really. For the scope, perhaps Vaaish was thinking this kind of scope? It's more substantial for such a big gun, would it tie in better?you are correct. The existing scope looks tossed on at the last second and doesn't fit with the rest of the concept very well. I think the OICW style scope could work nicely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fux0r666 Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 personally, I like the scope on the fnf2000 much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim69 Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 I perfer the mult-barreled concept for an autocannon personally. Of course, if we decide on going with a shotgun/assault rifle hybrid for the AC, I can enjoy that too. (Especially if it looks like that one that RustedSoul posted, that was pretty, and it looked similar to the H-C, but not too similar (because of the much shorter barrel.) Also about the autocannon, you should probably make the bullets smaller and make about 14 (was that the xcom 1 number?) of them.Unless out guys are all Rambo it would be hard to justify the Autocannon as it was in X-Com It always annoyed me personally that it looked like it had been taken of an aircraft and put a grip on it, that could just be me tho, I never really liked Hollywood getting into games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackAce Posted October 24, 2003 Report Share Posted October 24, 2003 (edited) today was quite long for me, but I have managed to finish first version of Auto cannon, here is the shot, as usual, Im very tired at the moment, so I cant write much explanation, all I can say that this babe holds 55 bullets and 9mm caliber, (bullets are quite cumbersome, I tried to open up some room for more bullets in ammo drum and place for chemicals in bullet (for HE or I) I can design AP bullets more bolt like... sorry for the shaders, but otherwise there is not much to see... cya! PS: thx for the suggestions, especially for the scope and shoulder thing, I will modify H.Cannon tomorrow, http://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/AC_1.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/AC_2.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/AC_4.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/AC_5.jpghttp://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/AC_6.jpg Edited October 24, 2003 by BlackAce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 (edited) Beautiful. But it does seem more alien than human to me. Maby make it have some metal plates on it? Other than making it more human, I love it. Edit: What I mean by the above is that it looks too smooth to be level 1 human tech. Edited October 25, 2003 by Cpl. Facehugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackAce Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 I know, but I didnt want to use old gatling gun style, I agree with Jim on this too, You should be quite a "rambo or terminator" to use such a weapon effectively, so I reduced barrel count to 3 rather than 6 which is one of the heaviest component on usual gatling gun I guess. And I also covered the barrels with a plating to make it more smooth. I could use a larger ammo drum but it wont be nice if a single ammo drum takes 2x2 slot in backpack, and it would be very heavy.... Anyways, only thing I can do is reducing the overall lenght to make it look more human, here is the shot Note: Auto Cannon bullet caliber is now 15mm, (I noticed the gun was quite small when I compared it to other weapons... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackAce Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 may be more sharp edges and shorter barrels could help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackAce Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 (edited) and, for Heavy Cannon, I made these enhancements, I increased height of back part, so user can lean it on to his shoulder easier I guess, I changed sight on top completely, I used a sight very similar to OICW (thanks for the picture Bruenor), Im sure this display has 55 chanels memory and an internal DVD decoder... I also changed clip shape a little to make it compatible for HE and I bullets, I changed the front metal plating slightly, its more wide now... Additional picture;http://www.geocities.com/blackacelead/EO_2.jpg Edited October 25, 2003 by BlackAce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl. Facehugger Posted October 25, 2003 Report Share Posted October 25, 2003 Nice. I love the idea of a three barreled autocannon. I love your heavy cannon as well, they are purty. Keep up the good work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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