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Event-triggered Research


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#1 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 08:32 AM

I was wondering two things:

This is the XML research entry for Alien Supply:
<!--Alien Supply-->
	<topic name="RES_ALIEN_SUPPLY">
  <research>
 	 <time>1234</time>
  </research>
  
  <prerequisite>
 	 <reference facilityid="FAC_TACHYON_EMISSIONS_DETECTOR"/>
  </prerequisite>  
  
  <grants>
 	 <reference xnetid="XNET_ALIEN_SUPPLY"/>
  </grants>
	</topic>
I left it to that, but it needs some modification, obviously. In X-Com you also need an Alien Navigator, thing we can do here, but I'm thinking *maybe* it could be more logical to obtain the possibility to research the Alien Supply topic after both you obtain the Decoder and salvage a Supply Ship. Is this possible? I know there isn't a XML tag for salvaging an UFO, but is this possible to program?

Second, I think it was fairly unrealistic that the only way you could obtain a certain UFO entry was interrogating a Navigator, is it possible to add UFO as a salvage item once you complete a crash or landed UFO mission? when you come back to base, you have the salvaged UFO and can research the UFO type, can this be implemented?

#2 SupSuper

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 09:54 AM

I believe the reason you're required to research an Alien Navigator to get info on an UFO is because an Alien Navigator knows much more about the ship, function, etc, then scientists could figure out just from salvaging and researching the ship.

Also, when a ship is salvaged, they take it apart and then take the raw components back to the base, so it'd be pretty impossible to figure out the UFO's purpose just from components. And they don't just bring in the whole intact UFO to the base for research, that's simply not feasible: what craft could carry a Very Large UFO, where would it fit in the base, and how could they keep it protected and out of sight during the trip? And researching on-site would probably be dangerous and you'd have to get scientific equipment there.

too bad, now you will never know the ancient secrets of supsupers long gone avatar ;)

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#3 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 05:12 PM

So, basically you're saying they leave the ship there? I don't see the logic in that :) also, they don't have to take it whole, they could either use several helicopters to transport it, or break it into pieces and take it to base, the game is not bound to be 100% realistic, but I feel like having it be possible to research after being successful at a crash or recovery mission is better. But anyhow, I just want to know if this is possible :)

#4 red knight

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 09:34 PM

Az, as long as the algorithm can be programmed (it is not an Non Polynomial problem) it is posible to do so... however the real thing here is: "It is really needed? Does it makes sense? How much we need to work for that to be able to do? Does that work really pais of?" ;)

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#5 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 09:35 PM

In my opinion, it does, I consider that a major flaw in the original X-Com, luckily that was fixed in X-Com: Apocalypse, which made more sense. If you guys really think it doesn't make sense, I guess I'll work around it, then.

#6 Kikanaide

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 08:26 AM

One quick consideration, Az. I'm open to the idea of recovery-based research opportunities...but...there needs to be an in-game reason to research Navigators (and Engineers, for that matter). I think, in the original, those UFO and Mission texts were more Easter Eggs than anything...just a reward thrown in for doing a (arguably) more difficult task of capturing ranked aliens live. After all, they don't affect gameplay in any manner, even insofar as opening up other research topics.

With something like what you proposed (HWD and captured Supply Ship)...capturing a navigator is now exactly like capturing a soldier. You can research them, and they'll give you "living" knowledge on the race. And if we make UFO research dependent on capture instead of Engineers, then we have three alien ranks which have no in-game difference besides stats and name, and as such no incentive to capture. And it's questionable whether the stats are different enough for anyone to notice.

So what can we give, instead, to encourage the capture of Engineers and Navigators? If there is something small, easy to program, and fun...then I at least would consider your option to be more reasonable and realistic.

Edited by Kikanaide, 25 August 2005 - 08:28 AM.

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#7 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 12:30 PM

Capturing Navigators could help you get random UFO or Mission entries, but seems that idea is not very popular at the moment :)

#8 UnFleshed One

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 12:56 PM

Capturing engeeners can get you perks for alien weapons. Slightly improved stats (higher rate of fire, improved accuracy) or unlocking some locked abilities (like grenade launcher in plasma rifle :)). So that to use alien tecnology in its full capacity you have to capture alien drilling sergeant :)

But that's topic for labs anyway :P
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#9 red knight

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 09:43 PM

Yes it is for the labs, but it is a nice idea nonetheless... post V1 of course.

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#10 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 10:05 PM

I hate you all, programmers :P moved to the labs :)

#11 AVE

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Posted 05 September 2005 - 01:24 AM

A note for programmers: You are using Lua guys, are you?
So, if it is true, my idea will make a nice add-on to all CTD work. :Deal:
Idea:
Make text in X-Net dependable on research done. Hmm, short description, not understandable... All right, how should I put it...
You research live Grays, have X-Net description (short for the moment). But when you capture more Gray species (Medic, Navigator), you know about it a bit more. Not about profession I mean, but about a whole race.
Something like that:

CTD text for Grays race..... Starting.... Some general info...
[luascript]
entry=GetResearchEntryByName('Grays Medic');
if entry.Researched=1 then
AddTextToDisplay('
Here goes information specific for medics, ie, you cannot get that info from researching plain Gray soldier, he does not know much about his race. But medic knows more. A lot.
');
end;
[/luascript]
[some more...]
[and even more...]
End of CTD text...
But you will need research entries LUAified... Details can be supplied if interested.
I have stumbled across this idea while reading CTD texts. And discussions like that:
Scientists just do not know about that yet! They have not researched it! Remove that and try something else.
So, why try something else if you can see it when you researched it?
EDIT:
Ah, nice description for this idea: Dynamically composed X-Net text dependable on research already done by player. :)

Edited by AVE, 05 September 2005 - 01:27 AM.


#12 Guest_Azrael_*

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Posted 05 September 2005 - 03:47 AM

That sounds like an interesting idea to take into consideration for V1+.

#13 centurion

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 06:24 AM

*sorry for necro*
Last time I checked (a while ago, I know), research topics could have items as prerequisites, so this could be solved by recovering a "Supply Ship Core Wreckage" or something like that upon finishing a mission with a supply ship. Progressing X-Net entries sound very nice in principle, but isn't that really an attempt to put multiple entries into one? If making the changes noticed can be solved easily, this could be resolved by minimal tweaking in the X-Net displaying side (pages that exist now will have a "master" page, and display within that one).
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#14 dteviot

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Posted 20 February 2006 - 01:28 PM

I was wondering two things:

This is the XML research entry for Alien Supply:

<!--Alien Supply-->
	<topic name="RES_ALIEN_SUPPLY">
  <research>
 	 <time>1234</time>
  </research>
  
  <prerequisite>
 	 <reference facilityid="FAC_TACHYON_EMISSIONS_DETECTOR"/>
  </prerequisite>  
  
  <grants>
 	 <reference xnetid="XNET_ALIEN_SUPPLY"/>
  </grants>
	</topic>
I left it to that, but it needs some modification, obviously. In X-Com you also need an Alien Navigator, thing we can do here, but I'm thinking *maybe* it could be more logical to obtain the possibility to research the Alien Supply topic after both you obtain the Decoder and salvage a Supply Ship. Is this possible? I know there isn't a XML tag for salvaging an UFO, but is this possible to program?

Second, I think it was fairly unrealistic that the only way you could obtain a certain UFO entry was interrogating a Navigator, is it possible to add UFO as a salvage item once you complete a crash or landed UFO mission? when you come back to base, you have the salvaged UFO and can research the UFO type, can this be implemented?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looking at the existing files, doing this shouldn't take much more than some additions to the various config files.
1. Add a new item (crashed alien ship)
2. Add a new research project, that takes the alien ship as a edit: prerequisite.
3. Add an X-Net entry.
4. Get some artwork.
5. Add the crashed ship to items that are automatically granted at a crash. (Should make sure this is also defined in a file.)
6. Enjoy.

Edited by dteviot, 20 February 2006 - 01:29 PM.

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