11 replies to this topic

[Sorrow]

Years ago, when I had only a Commodore C-64, I played a game called Laser Squad. It was one of my favourite games.
I liked the tactical gameplay and the fact that the game was one of the scariest games that I played then.
It didn't have any music but generated tension by sudden appearances of enemies (and their hidden movement), that often ended with squad member's death due to deadly weapons, also, it made an excellent use of sounds - there are a lot of sharp sounds that raise the adrenaline level. Graphics are very simple, even for Commodore C-64, but do a good job in representing things. The special effects are simple, but very dramatic.

A few days ago I started playing it again. First I tried the PC version. I found the graphics pretty pleasant, but the music was annoying and special effects were less dramatic than in C-64 version. Especially the explosions and terrain damage was pretty unimpressive. Also, I didn't like the user interface.

I decided to try the C-64 version. I downloaded a Java adaptation of it, but the sound didn't work, so I downloaded a C-64 emulator and a Laser Squad rom (which is public domain now and can be downloaded here).
I started to play it and discovered that it still has that atmosphere and I love the gameplay and special effects, despite that the interface is heavy to use and graphics are in low resolution and have not enough colors.

Are there any other Laser Squad fans?

[Hobbes]

The PC version is terrible...I played the ZX Spectrum version back on the 80s and it is a lot better. You can always try Laser Squad Nemesis.

[Sorrow]

Hehehe .
It's amusing how sometimes higher tech doesn't mean better .

I played it on the Amiga 500, and have fond memories of the gameplay. I had previously played a similar game called Breach, which wasn't as good. I think I only had a demo of Laser Squad, as there were only a couple of missions

The full game has only 5 scenarios.

and I don't think I ever won a single mission - the broccoli -headed monsters/bulletproof robots always wiped out my squad in a terrrifying and relentless manner!

Heh .
Sometimes I win and sometimes I lose, at least in the first scenario XD . Today I tried using 2 heavily armoured guys as "tanks" and the rest of the squad as support. One of them soaked up 5 hits before even getting wounded and another one got killed with one shot XD . At one point I had 3 droids lined up and auto-shoted 2 of them . A turn later one of my "tanks" was overcome by 2 remaining droids, soaking up about 6 more shots after he got wounded and before finally dying XDDDDD .

I wish X-Com 3 had an AI that would be so efficient as the Laser Squad one...

Incidentally, a number of names crop up in Laser squad which the devs kept on using right up until Xcom3 e.g. the surname "Jonlan", and two assualt rifles, one "Marsec" and one "M2000" - in Apocalypse you can get "Marsec M2000 Autorifles".

Err... it's M4000 Auto-Gun and Marsec Auto-Gun.

BTW.
I'm reading about some game mechanism like the damage formula, and it seems that some of them were so good that they got into later X-Com games almost untouched .

[Gimli]

Yep, as one of the Gollops said, a good deal of the combat systems were simply a continuation of the previous ones. I'm not 100% sure, but I think even Dreamland wouldn't have been all that different in that respect, just an improvement of a sort. It's certainly visible that a lot of stuff made it from UFO Defense to Apocalypse, but it's also interesting to note that there were still a lot of new things. It seems to me that they were also aware of some of the holes in the UFO Defense combat system, such as the last alien syndrome and the overpowered PSI. I really wish that they had done the shot types differently though. Personally, I would have gone for a cross of UFO Defense and Fallout (and then some). So each weapon would have its own types of shots. For example, the pistol would only have the aimed and snap shot, while some weapons would only have auto fire and then some would have totally new shots, not seen in X-COM before (UFO:AI is a good example of this). So how does Fallout fit into this? Well one thing I particularly liked was how it handled the bullets. As I recall, you couldn't really see normal bullets in Fallout. This is more realistic (not that it's important, but still). But the question is: how would you use that in X-COM? It's not a problem if your shot kills an alien, but if it doesn't and you don't see the bullet, will you even be sure that you hit him? Well that's what Fallout handled brilliantly. Every time you hit someone in Fallout, they would sort of stutter. Such a simple and yet very effective way to give feedback. Not only that, but this sort of thing could also be used for shots with weapons like rocket launchers. In Fallout, it often led to a character falling on his back and sliding several tiles. And another thing I really liked was that auto fire didn't always use 3 shots like UFO Defense, instead each weapon used its own amount and personally I found it a lot more buyable when the minigun fired 30 (?) bullets per burst.

[Sorrow]

one of the Gollops said

Hmm...
Do you have some links to interviews with creators of X-Com and Laser Squad?

It's certainly visible that a lot of stuff made it from UFO Defense to Apocalypse, but it's also interesting to note that there were still a lot of new things. It seems to me that they were also aware of some of the holes in the UFO Defense combat system, such as the last alien syndrome and the overpowered PSI.

On the other hand they managed to add a ton of other holes.

So how does Fallout fit into this? Well one thing I particularly liked was how it handled the bullets. As I recall, you couldn't really see normal bullets in Fallout. This is more realistic (not that it's important, but still). But the question is: how would you use that in X-COM? It's not a problem if your shot kills an alien, but if it doesn't and you don't see the bullet, will you even be sure that you hit him? Well that's what Fallout handled brilliantly. Every time you hit someone in Fallout, they would sort of stutter. Such a simple and yet very effective way to give feedback. Not only that, but this sort of thing could also be used for shots with weapons like rocket launchers. In Fallout, it often led to a character falling on his back and sliding several tiles.

Laser Squad has a similar thing - characters react to being hit.

And another thing I really liked was that auto fire didn't always use 3 shots like UFO Defense, instead each weapon used its own amount and personally I found it a lot more buyable when the minigun fired 30 (?) bullets per burst.

Laser Squad has even better system - weapons have different AP costs for various fire modes. This way it's possible to create automatic weapons with different rates of fire.
Even better, Laser Squad allows firing between two points - one can lay a wide or narrow cone of lead.
IMO, X-Com series were going backwards when it comes to automatic fire - from great and very realistic in Laser Squad, through fair, but not very realistic in UFO to awful and completely unrealistic in Apocalypse.

[Gimli]

Hmm...
Do you have some links to interviews with creators of X-Com and Laser Squad?

Link 1
Link 2
Link 3
Link 4
Link 5
Link 6
Link 7

That's all I have. I'm not sure if what I told you is in any of those though, I seem to have lost at least one or two other interviews. Still, you may find them interesting.

Edited by Gimli, 08 April 2008 - 02:50 AM.

[Sorrow]

The links are broken .

[Gimli]

Yeah, I thought the browser would fix these, but apparently I have to do it on my own... Check the links again, they should be working.

[Sorrow]

Thanks .
I finished reading the first interview and I found it very interesting.

It shows how big were their plans for Apocalypse...

It's good to see a game designer actually criticise the fact that publishers concentrate far too much resources on graphics and sound compared to the game design.

One thing that I found interesting was how late Julian Gollop got into computer games.

Now, I'm reading the second one and it shows how publishers tend to maim games.
I can see certain parallels with Fallout here - both games were great because the publishers didn't mess with them much but got some parts changed/cut out due by publishing pigs - for example Junktown endings in Fallout and conspiracy elements in UFO.
On the other hand, the pigs managed to cripple X-Com 3...

[Gimli]

Yep, there's a lot more to the whole story of Apocalypse's development, there's only hints as to what happened. I remember reading somewhere an interview with Julian Gollop and he was asked why the aliens looked the way they did in Apoc and his answer was: "Ask the people who drew them." Which is strange because you would expect the lead designer to be in control, but it seems he wasn't for whatever reason. Something similar happened during Dreamland, but I know too little to be able to point fingers. Unfortunately the first time I tried to contact the Gollops I had no luck, I'll try again one day.

[Sorrow]

I have finally managed to buy an original copy of the first edition of C=64 Laser Squad .

I didn't know that it came with only three scenarios XD . It's kinda weird that people were willing to pay for so little playing time...