Jump to content


Photo

Raiding


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 Kell

Kell

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 11 posts

Posted 29 November 2007 - 09:16 PM

Hi all. I finally got Apoc working again the other day, and was wondering a few things about how everyone raids.

How often do some of you raid in the first week or two? My first game i raided like a half dozen times in the first two days, good money and was easy. This second time around i'm doing it a lot less, especialy because the cult figured to carry a heavy launcher every freakin time. I don't make taking wounds and such, but losing a guy or two and having half my team wounded on each raid is rediculous on the first day.

How do you guys deal with Launcher toting cult members? They are way too accurate and don't die nearly fast enough and almost always get off a rocket or two before i down them...which takes out a few of my guys everytime. It is REALLY bugging me since the first game i played i Did half a dozen good raids w/o any hickups and especialy no launcher pansies.

#2 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 29 November 2007 - 10:40 PM

Raids? Well, you can raid as much as you want, really. But don't forget that technology is unlocked based on your score, so you don't want to over-do it and suddenly have shielded aliens with entropy and dimension missiles on your next mission against the aliens. I'd probably recommend only raiding to grab spare ammo and a few weapons that don't become available until the next week, like the good all-rounders the plasma gun or the mini launcher.

As for combating rockets, hmm, it's hard to say. First is to make sure you're wearing a full suit of armour. Also as it's been pointed out in another thread, Marsec armour has a 20% reduction to explosive damage, so perhaps some Marsec pants might help.

Don't bunch your troops together too much.

Play aggressively and ambush the cultists at short range with full auto bursts so that they don't get a chance to open fire with their rockets. Say just past a door, at the top of a grav-lift (or at the bottom landing), around a tunnel corner, etc. Get in close. It's dangerous, but it's effective.

Seek lots of cover to avoid across-the-pit missile launches when you're in the chapel. In fact, hug the wall with the door on the right side of the room so that enemies coming out of the door will not spot so quickly as they enter the room.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 30 November 2007 - 01:50 AM.

Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#3 Kell

Kell

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 11 posts

Posted 30 November 2007 - 12:37 AM

Sounds great NKF...very, very happy to know that score dictates alien advancement. No wonder my last game saw cloaked/shielded entropy launching aliens at the beggining of week 3. I didn't rememeber the aliens coming down to kick my donkey that fast last time i played heh.

I also just started using 6 troops to do missions instead of 12...i like it a LOT better. Don't have to worry about so many guys, and the maps are smaller and quicker :D

Thanks again NKF, you rock these forums. =b

#4 NRN_R_Sumo1

NRN_R_Sumo1

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 464 posts

Posted 30 November 2007 - 08:34 PM

I wouldnt say that the rocket launcher toting cult members are accurate by any means.. all you need to do is run in one direction horozontally and suddenly drop.

the rocket almost never hits.




This might be added to the fact I dont usually use more than 3 agents in a raid.
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#5 F*SH

F*SH

    Squaddie

  • Forum Members
  • PipPip
  • 9 posts

Posted 25 January 2008 - 11:46 AM

Don't have to worry about so many guys, and the maps are smaller and quicker


Is map size proportional to team size? I always love a small map - allows you to take things a bit slower rather than having to spend weeks running around looking for a bunch of aliens who are waiting to ambush you, so any tricks to getting the map creator to make me smaller arenas is a win...

#6 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 26 January 2008 - 08:38 PM

I've never really noticed that myself. It probably depends on the type of map you're attacking, as some maps are fixed in size (like some most of the slums, office complexes, UFOs, etc), while the maps that look like good old traditional X-Com randomised map blocks (recyclotorium, and possibly places like the temples, flyer factories and Marsec/Megapol arms depots) may (or may not) be affected by squad size.

- NKF

Edited by NKF, 26 January 2008 - 08:42 PM.

Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#7 NRN_R_Sumo1

NRN_R_Sumo1

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 464 posts

Posted 28 January 2008 - 06:03 PM

To Fish: No it isnt.

the game is unfinished, and wasting time and energy to do such a silly thing would have been useless o:

But making all the other base layouts like the Xcom basements would have made some sense, and then randomized what was where, then Mabye the it could have been done proportunate to team size.


a few of us have a habit of playing 1 man games, and I can tell you the maps are no differant than the 20 man teams I used to use :P
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#8 j'ordos

j'ordos

    Alien Concept Task Force

  • Xenocide Artwork Department
  • 5,059 posts

Posted 29 January 2008 - 09:46 AM

What about the occasions where you get, for example, 2 slum maps pieced together? Question is if it depends solely on the amount of enemies or the total amount of units present (so Xcom troops would affect it too)?
"You can't trust your eyes if your imagination's out of focus" - Mark Twain
"The mind is like an umbrella, it functions best when open" - Walter Gropius
Posted Image
SNEKK BLOG U-LAR MEKHH! GAHGHH! RK!
GRRGH RGGHH SNORRTT GHACKHGG

Now presented in DoubleVision™ (where drunk)

#9 Aiki-Knight

Aiki-Knight

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 256 posts

Posted 08 February 2008 - 11:40 AM

I wouldnt say that the rocket launcher toting cult members are accurate by any means.. all you need to do is run in one direction horozontally and suddenly drop.

the rocket almost never hits.


Can you describe in detail this technique of "dropping" in front of a marsec missile? Do you have the agent run and fall prone? How close do you let the missile get before you command the agent to go prone? This would be great to know!

#10 NRN_R_Sumo1

NRN_R_Sumo1

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 464 posts

Posted 08 February 2008 - 07:24 PM

If you run in a direction far enough to have the rocket Curve, you can just drop to the ground and often times it will fly by and narrowly avoid your agent.

Often it is still better to try for the jump attempt into a pit or behind cover if you are close enough, but if it is open ground without much cover in the direction, dodging is your best chance ;)


It also helps when the agent isnt weighed down with insane amounts of ammo ._.
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#11 Steelion

Steelion

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 149 posts

Posted 07 March 2008 - 11:20 PM

You would think that the weight would make falling down easier.


...How much ammo are we talking here?
What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm?
What is a thought, compared to the mind?
--
I R A SILLY GOOSE, apparently. Go figure.
--

I'm not dead! Really!

#12 NRN_R_Sumo1

NRN_R_Sumo1

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 464 posts

Posted 09 March 2008 - 09:19 PM

Actually, Weight slows down the agent making it so the rocket doesnt have a steep enough turn to miss.

Generally, a backpack of ammo wont help you much. ;D

as Ive probably mentioned several times I only use two or three clips on each agent and no side arms other than on Hvy Troops like Rocketlaunchers and the like.
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#13 zaimoni

zaimoni

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 70 posts

Posted 11 March 2008 - 08:54 AM

Actually, Weight slows down the agent making it so the rocket doesnt have a steep enough turn to miss.

Yes. Generally, you need a RT speed of 56 to make this work; RT speed 64 is better.

#14 Steelion

Steelion

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 149 posts

Posted 14 March 2008 - 06:14 PM

Generally when I see a missile, I try and hide behind something. Failing that, I prepare the casket.
What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm?
What is a thought, compared to the mind?
--
I R A SILLY GOOSE, apparently. Go figure.
--

I'm not dead! Really!

#15 NRN_R_Sumo1

NRN_R_Sumo1

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 464 posts

Posted 20 March 2008 - 05:51 PM

Also a great option Steel, but I usually use this when there is no cover to fling the missle back.

Recently I was playing and I flung the missle, and somehow managed to get it to take out another group of cultists. xD
Me: Magic Eight Ball, do alien beings inhabit the earth?

Eight Ball: For the love of God, would you stop jiggling me! How can I predict the future when I'm about to throw up?!

#16 Steelion

Steelion

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 149 posts

Posted 24 March 2008 - 02:38 PM

That's awesome.
What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm?
What is a thought, compared to the mind?
--
I R A SILLY GOOSE, apparently. Go figure.
--

I'm not dead! Really!

#17 feliciafan89

feliciafan89

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts

Posted 17 September 2008 - 10:08 AM

Generally, if I'm trying to boost the stats of some Rookies, I stick to Turn-based mode until they're experienced and well-trained to kill. Then, ONLY then, I go to real time mode.

As for raiding the Cult of Sirius, it's easiest if you go through the tunnels, since they're tight quarters, and thereby good for setting up ambushes, and the cultists normally are in the altars and pews, many of which the tunnels connect to, so you can flank them EASILY.

But when I'm out in the open in ANY scenario... I'm a big fan of the MiniLauncher. LOVE that beauty to DEATH. Whoever thought of that thing deserves a medal or something. I rely mostly on Plasma Pistols and MiniLaunchers. The Lawpistol, when compared to the Plasma Pistol, is practically a toy. You might as well be throwing rocks at the aliens if you're gonna use THAT. Even on humans, it's not very reliable.

(I wonder if I can get an Airsoft version of the Lawpistol? Or are they already Airsoft in the game? XD)

Edited by feliciafan89, 17 September 2008 - 10:10 AM.

Posted Image

#18 NKF

NKF

    Commander

  • [Global Moderators]
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,798 posts

Posted 17 September 2008 - 11:40 PM

I find the combat skills of your troops are a bit less important in real-time than they are in turn based, so you can get into the action right away even if the troop's just stepped off the taxi (but yes, good stats help). Get close enough and be sure to actively open fire on your targets will allow you to bypass low accuracy and low reaction scores. Also use rapid fire low damage weapons like the M4000 to boost the accuracy score quickly (aimed-dual or snap-dual for best long range results). The sneakier way to get a bit of experience in before a real battle is to stun-raid a building for the sole purpose of knocking a few guards out with the grapples and then making a break for it without stealing anything. But you wouldn't do that! :D

---

I'm more of plasma gun person myself as it's well rounded and can even substitute for the sniper rifle. However, the Lawpistol's not bad. Lots of people swear by the M4000, which is one of the best weapons you can get at the start that has decent firepower and trains you up real quick in real-time (turn based fans love this weapon to bits when their TUs are still low enough to give them 1AP autoshots). The Lawpistol's just a slightly slower but stronger version of that. Its biggest problem however is the small 12-shot magazine, which is highly inadequate for its (dualed) rate of fire. It's pretty good against anthropods, spitters and brainsuckers. Just watch out for the Multiworms.

Perhaps a much more positive sounding gun firing sound effect would make it stand out more. It sounds way too muffled (pit, pit, pit... meh) . There are a number of unused sound samples if you have a dig through the game files, so there might be a suitable sub sound clip for the Lawpistol. Did it ages ago. In fact, when I did that, I replaced the Anthropod moan with monkey whoops from the Bitmap Brother's game Z at one stage during a fit of momentary insanity. ;)

- NKF
Lord High Generalissimo Ruler Supreme of Norm's Anti Pedant Society (NAPS).

Number of members: 1

#19 feliciafan89

feliciafan89

    Sergeant

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 52 posts

Posted 18 September 2008 - 12:20 PM

I find the combat skills of your troops are a bit less important in real-time than they are in turn based, so you can get into the action right away even if the troop's just stepped off the taxi (but yes, good stats help). Get close enough and be sure to actively open fire on your targets will allow you to bypass low accuracy and low reaction scores. Also use rapid fire low damage weapons like the M4000 to boost the accuracy score quickly (aimed-dual or snap-dual for best long range results). The sneakier way to get a bit of experience in before a real battle is to stun-raid a building for the sole purpose of knocking a few guards out with the grapples and then making a break for it without stealing anything. But you wouldn't do that! :D

---

I'm more of plasma gun person myself as it's well rounded and can even substitute for the sniper rifle. However, the Lawpistol's not bad. Lots of people swear by the M4000, which is one of the best weapons you can get at the start that has decent firepower and trains you up real quick in real-time (turn based fans love this weapon to bits when their TUs are still low enough to give them 1AP autoshots). The Lawpistol's just a slightly slower but stronger version of that. Its biggest problem however is the small 12-shot magazine, which is highly inadequate for its (dualed) rate of fire. It's pretty good against anthropods, spitters and brainsuckers. Just watch out for the Multiworms.

Perhaps a much more positive sounding gun firing sound effect would make it stand out more. It sounds way too muffled (pit, pit, pit... meh) . There are a number of unused sound samples if you have a dig through the game files, so there might be a suitable sub sound clip for the Lawpistol. Did it ages ago. In fact, when I did that, I replaced the Anthropod moan with monkey whoops from the Bitmap Brother's game Z at one stage during a fit of momentary insanity. ;)

- NKF



I can't stand the Lawpistol. It's as effective as a wad of paper. I only use M4000's, Auto Cannons, Sniper Rifles, and Plasma Guns. ^_^
Posted Image

#20 Steelion

Steelion

    Captain

  • Forum Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 149 posts

Posted 15 December 2008 - 12:33 AM

Now, I don't know how useful this is, considering the modding I've got in place, but I basically use machine guns and snipers exclusively until I get disruptors. Then I dual wield those things until I get devastators. Then dual wield them. Nothing like a death hall of 24 devastators waiting right outside the UFO doors. :shockwhore:

Of course, I also broke superhuman my last playthrough, but that's something else entirely. The game become ludicrously easy when you don't even notice that the aliens have shields until after you've killed them...
What is a drop of rain, compared to the storm?
What is a thought, compared to the mind?
--
I R A SILLY GOOSE, apparently. Go figure.
--

I'm not dead! Really!