Interceptor Battles

[Guest Jim69]

Hey guys

 

What exactly happened in the UFO window? That is what this discussion is about. If we can pin down exactly what happens in an interceptor battle then it saves going over it again when the time comes to implement it.

 

So, what tactics did the UFO use? Well, keeping in mind that the UFO was always flying away from the Interceptor at what moment does it decide to speed up and away? When does it come closer to fight? How aggressive are they? When you perform one of the options how does it respond? Does it change from race to race, from UFO type?

 

All questions that need answers, I'm going to attempt to find out at least some of these answers tonight when I get back from work but does anyone else know little quirks that the UFO will do? And more importantly should we have those same quirks?

 

Remember that our window, at least for v1.0. will be fairly identical to X-Com 1 so any suggestions that change the style or major changes should go in the lab thread. Very little tweaks and any bugs that people notice should be alright though.

[SupSuper]

well, the intercept window of x-com is pretty much perfect, i don't think we need to do any tweaks for it when we implement it on. maybe a Fuel indicator (handy for long battles or chases) should be put in.

 

the UFOs pretty much act like a human pilot. if heavily damaged or no chances of winning (eg. Very Small UFO vs. Interceptor with Plasma Beams) it tries to gets away or does hit 'n' run. if fighting against a weaker opponent it usually battles until it's destroyed or until it manages to run away. the bigger the UFO (or the tougher the race) the more agressive it is. only attacks if craft comes within weapon range (although we could make it start attacking the craft if it keeps itself on Standoff for too long. after all, i don't think UFOs like to be chased around and in x-com combat always started with x-com's initiative). weapon damage depends on weapon accurary, damage, distance between target and UFO size.

maybe we could make UFOs attempt to intercept x-com craft, just like x-com intercepts UFOs. at least that way they could stop transport craft from arriving at a terror site, but that might make the game harder.

[Cmdr. Luke]

One tactic that they could use is to actually having the ufo's retaliate in a different way. We all know that they come attack our base, but what if they chased our interceptor? What if we were chasing a ufo and suddenly another one was on our tail trying to shoot OUR interceptor down? If we're patrolling too close to their base a ufo will pop up and shoot us down (before the base is found out). More aggresive ufo's is what I'm trying to get at. -_-

[Guest Jim69]

We are talking about what is in X-Com not what you would like to see in Xenocide, the first version will be virtually identical to X-Com only without the bugs. Things you didn't see in X-Com or very Minor things should be here. Having the UFO's attack you is something quite major gameplay wise and so should be in the lab.

 

Purely observations on things you have definatly observed please, not things you think you may have observed, try to verify anything. Like how do you know that they are more likely to run off when it is a more equal opponent, have you seen this so many times you are absolutly sure or just a hunch? If you are uncertain state that it is a theory and try it out.

 

For instance I have a theory that UFO's building a new base ( if you get them before they get to the ground ) are more aggressive but I would have to check to find out.

Edited October 20, 2003 by Jim69

[RustedSoul]

i have only observed the ufos running on 2 types of occasions

1: Somwhere below 50% health

2: before a shot is even fired

 

*my speculations are that this is either somwhat random or the program calculates your aircrafts potential firpower and immediately withdraws if the ufos hitpoints are determined as a no contest. (hitpoints vs firpower theory)

 

these ufos have generally been smaller craft, unlike the the larger variety whom seemed more willing to stick around. This evidence also points directly to the Hitpoints vs Firepower theory.

 

:uzzi: :alienmad:

[Deimos]

What are you saying here Jim? Are you wanting to dicuss the merits and flaws of the xcom interceptor window or what you would like to see for the xenocide one.

 

If the latter then the interceptor window was designed and settled ages ago its basically the same as xcom's We know it works so that's what'll go into v1.0. I must say that you are getting a bit ahead of yourself as we're supposed to be concentrating on making models for the x-net and the battlescape incidental models. By the time it comes to impliment the interceptor window into the geoscape this thread will be long forgotten

 

However for the tactics used I'd wager that the ufo's took a certain amount of damage before changing from aggressive mode to retreat mode. The script was probably a basic if - then statement for each ufo type which governs the behaviour of the particular craft which is adjusted for the difficulty level which its played at. From all the time I've played the English and American versions I've never seen anything to explain any complicated tactics at all.

[Guest Jim69]

Yeah, I know the window is going to be the same as X-Com, I am saying lets discuss exactly how it worked in X-Com since that is our model. Which is why I said to the first 2 posts that other ideas should be in the lab thread, basically I am discussing the UFO AI in X-Com 1. Sorry, I thought that was clear from my first post.

[Breunor]

It sounds like someone would need to look at the code used for that screen if possible. It would seem the ufo would never wish to be shot down, but would return fire if possible. As there was a chance it would run even before shot, there was probably some increasing chance to flee no matter what. The amount of damage would increase that chance.

 

I agree with Deimos though, discussing how the AI might have worked doesn't get us working models and artwork soldier!

[Guest Jim69]

I think given that 35% of the models needed for the battlescape are ready there is time for a quick diversion for AI And if Interceptions are THAT far off then I really don't think there is a rush for models, do you

[Breunor]

Absolutely! Actually I'm the kind who hates to wait until there's pressure to do it. I just feel there's someone out there who's already looked at the original formulas, and we'll find that info and make similar formulas. On the otehr hand, the more models we have the better, I remember getting stomped for suggesting we "just make it all american" in jest, and it's true that we want to have a wide variety of models and textures to work from. We have maybe a small park worth of models so far, but not enough to even make 1 terror site let alone 20+. Just my 2 cents, but everybody can work on what interests them of course.

[Guest Jim69]

Of cause, don't think I'm stopping creating models, really it's something for me to think about at work when I am stuck doing nothing ( like at the moment ) and need something to occupy myself with.

 

If someone has already got stats from ingame then that would be great, I still feel it would be good if we all say what we noticed the UFO's did, like you said leaving things until the last minute is a bad idea. At least this way when the time comes to do it the programming guys can flow straight onto AI instead of discussing it all over again. I don't think threads are forgotten that easily, or else the whole of the Lab is a exercise in how to waste time which it isn't IMO.

[SupSuper]

well, playing some more x-com (tftd, not ufo. in ufo the UFOs tend to run away more quickly through my own experience) i pretty much figured out the general rules for it:

- UFO reactions are always the same, regardless of the power of your craft. or else it would be impossible to hit them with those really cool craft, now wouldn't it?

- The bigger the UFO, the more agressive it is (and the more powerful and slower it is)

- Only Small and Very Small UFOs run away. at least i never found a Medium UFO running away from me, and bigger simply would be stupid by doing so

- Very Small UFO rarely attacks, since he doesn't have chances of winning from the beginning of the game. usually what he does is hit 'n' run or just run as soon as you get it within weapon range.

- Small UFOs usually damage you a bit before running away, or just run away after u hit them a bit.

- If a UFO wants to run away, it only does it when it's within weapon range.

- Theory: UFOs are less agressive if they have just taken off. Can't confirm it, but I have shot down some recently landed Large UFOs, which didn't even strike back.

 

i think that's pretty much everything. need anymore AI info?

[Guest Jim69]

Every little helps I've never noticed that recently landed UFO's are less aggressive but I will try it out. I would agree with pretty much all you have written there as well.

[Puasonen]

Personally I've been pissed because I've played a lot of tftd lately and in that game small+ very small ufos run away 60-70% of attacks. It's not a "nice add to make fights interesting" It's fu**ing stupid a55 idea wich causes "smoke from ears" effect.

 

Ok, if they run like 30% of the times it's good but if they run every time you reach them, it's stupid. How can you go to crashlanded ufos if you can't drop them?

 

Usually ufos run just when the dup head has fired, so it has no chance of hitting because when duphead torpedo is at target range, the ufo is already out of range. So 3 first attacks usually makes you loose all your longer range torpedos. That sucks. This is still about tftd..

 

What I'm trying to say here is.. When you start thinking about the interceptor fight ideas, please spend some time thinking wich is a good idea and wich is something that would maybe be more realistic but makes the game irritating. After all, this isn't a realistic fight simulator for warschool or army. This is a game for people who want's to have a good time with it.

[Breunor]

IIRC in UFO the very small scout does not have a weapon, it's a sitting duck. So as soon as you fire there should be a high chance of retreat, which increases with each shot. You'd also have a starting percentage to flee as well. The larger the UFO and its weapons, the lower the chance it would run, except for supply ships IMO, which are focused on reaching their base. So you could have some kind of formula like:

 

Initial%:PerSec%:PerShot%:PerHit%

 

Initial=it runs as soon as you enter the intercept window.

PerSec=when you sit back and wait for reinforcements, this adds per second to the Initial and is rechecked.

PerShot=Once you fire, the chance they run goes up again.

PerHit=If they're taking damage of course there's self preservation...

[coolp]

Could the battleships have the option to ram human ships maybe? It would be really interesting if in a battle you had to have your intercepter attacking the battleship, while keeping far enough back to not get run over.

 

The battleship and abductor ships should both be able to run you over, since an intercepter against a battleship is a fly in the windshield. The only thing that I can't think of is how to run away... maybe another button that has you back away while firing...?

[Breunor]

Features that change game play and possibly change game balance are all v1+ options, and should be discussed in the laboratory forum. For v1, we'll be sticking with the original game's game play for this screen.