c4t Posted July 7, 2003 Report Share Posted July 7, 2003 in xcom apoc (sorry i seem to compare to it a lot) you could shoot at the ground... if i remember correctly in xcom one, ugh i cant remember, i have to play tonight and try rocket/autocannon tactic, anyway in apoc if you shot the rocket launcher at a blank square it would go downards into it. in xcom ufo defence/enemy unknown they just keep going untill they hit a wall. of course the game has no idea what you want. oh, sorry i didnt fill you in, ive always wanted to be able to shoot into the shroude (oh i remember now! in xcom you cant shoot at it if its not a wall or alien i tink/whatever i know you cant shoot rockets at the ground) so, what i propose is probly some sort of button that has a picture of the ground as a line and then an arrow which goes parallel to it(this is the default option, and it means that the projectile will keep going and not hit ground) and if you press it it makes the arrow on the button point at the ground and then i think you know what happens. this would apply to all guns/weapons. lets say you want to get a rocket in the middle of 3 aliens so they would each take some damage or all get killed, and if you shot it at one only he would die. so you shoot in the middle of them and they die. if the parallel button was pushed this would make it so that you could shoot anywhere you wanted. if you selected aimed shot and had the aimer directly infront of him it would be an aimed shot aimed best to go in a straight line infront of him. im done. some of this post didnt make sense to my knowledge, so just best understand what i tried to get out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 As far I understand, you want a button which switches between firing to the ground, and firing to the horizon. That could come in handy now and then, but most of the time there'll be some object you could fire at instead of the ground. Ok, not all the time, I admit. But it makes sense, being able to shoot down to the ground, right between those aliens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4t Posted July 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 yeah, home-ey. you got it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_borg Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 wouldn't being able to shoot the ground make it slightly too easy? Just shoot an explosive projectile towards the enemy and it'll kill him even if you miss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Well, that could be, it'll need playtesting. But it would make sense to shoot the ground with HE, I've been thinking of that too while playing the old Xcom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Aren't you always curious when you fire a rocket off target and it goes off the map? Where does it go? I'm sure the people down the road aren't too pleased when a stray blaster bomb destroys half their town. Just more dust for the UN to sweep under the rug... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikker Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Aren't you always curious when you fire a rocket off target and it goes off the map? Where does it go? I'm sure the people down the road aren't too pleased when a stray blaster bomb destroys half their town. Just more dust for the UN to sweep under the rug... And if it doesn't hit, you get the bomb into the back of your head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 (edited) Hey, never thought of that. What I always was wondering about: the manual stated the combat area was as small as it is because the aliens didn't want to leave their ship behind, or they couldn't get far because of earth atmosphere. But sometimes the UFO was on the edge of the map, and so the aliens would move a full map in one direction, but not a square in the other direction. If they explain the size of the map by stating the aliens don't fare well in our atmosphere then the UFO should be somewhere in the middle of the map, as they can't get far. Knowing where it is beforehand is probably less fun though.And where do battleships after they attacked your base, and terrorships after a terrormission go? They are not captured, they don't show up on the map, and they don't show up on radar after the mission, trying to make a run for it?? Edited July 8, 2003 by j'ordos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Aren't you always curious when you fire a rocket off target and it goes off the map? Where does it go? I'm sure the people down the road aren't too pleased when a stray blaster bomb destroys half their town. Just more dust for the UN to sweep under the rug... I had wondered along those those lines: Does a blaster bomb fly above the ground a certain distance, or does it fly in straight lines. If it hovers, then it would presumably carry on until it hit something. If however it flies straight, could it theoretically leave Earth by flying on a trajectory thats a tangent to the Earth's surface? How far can a blaster bomb travel and what does it do when it reaches that limit? Explode? Drop, then explode on contact? Drop harmlessly to the ground? I wonder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippyjon Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 (edited) um, back to the subject... being able to shoot at the ground makes sence to me for tactical reasons, and since theres little room for error (a few degrees off target verticaly could make a big difference on how far away the rocket hits the floor) it should be nicley balenced anyway. ...and off it againto j'ordos: they obviously just decided on small maps first then thought of an excuse for it afterwards. in tftd the excuse for why none of the missions take place in the many thousands of miles of featureless ocean floor is that the aliens always landed land where thers minerals and stuff to steal.... which doesnt quite explain why they tend to crash land around ship wrecks and research stations ect Edited July 8, 2003 by hippyjon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 And where do battleships after they attacked your base, and terrorships after a terrormission go? They are not captured, they don't show up on the map, and they don't show up on radar after the mission, trying to make a run for it?? I'm guessing that the attacking forces are "dropped off" and the UFO pilots head on home. That's the only logical answer...although it's very vague in description. :happybanana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 The UFO pilots took mercy on the game engine's ability to handle so much stuff going on in the game and hid the UFO down the street... I think being able to target the ground is a very good idea, it's how grenades work, so why not a blaster bomb? The damage is reduced based on distance from the blast point, so even if you target between the bad guy's feet it takes a little less damage. And your accuracy is still there, so you could be off by a bit. The firing mechanics and trajectory might be far different than the original due to the use of a 3D engine. I don't have a clue as to how it will work, but it should be safe to say that you should be able to target walls or floors in addition to units. Should be, but not definite. Once the baseview and geoscape side of the game are resolved, and battlescape mechanics are put under the scope, this will be a good issue to present. The use of Ctrl-Shift-Alt could be used to change from targeting units to targeting a position for example, so long as other game mechanics don't require those keys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikker Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 i think i know how to do it... ...what about if the move-op-or-down-one-level, is sp specific, that it can target the lines between those levels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 In Laser Squad Nemesis you had these buttons to change fire to "direct fire" and "terrain fire" (and "opportunity fire", but I'm guessing that won't be needed here). They would only need to be small, as they're not used all the time, and you can have the shortcut as well. (the shortcut alone doesn't seem like a good idea to me, I can see lots o' questions coming in: "how do i attack the ground?" :: ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Hmm...maybe a level 0 terrain needs to be considered. The view would be the same as in level 1, but the targetting cursor would be just a flat 2D box over each square of ground. That might be a more simple approach. :happybanana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4t Posted July 8, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 thats what i thought at first, yeah i guess it is more simple and easier to put in. the ground could just be another wall... blaster bombs keep going untill they run off map or hit something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Level 0 wouldn't work, since you might want to fire at the flooring on level 2 or 3 as well. Just having a button or key command to alter the firing cursor should take care of it, you'd see the cursor change shape to a 2D square like Nickisimo said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 8, 2003 Report Share Posted July 8, 2003 Would a rocket-jump be possible? Strap on your power armor and fire that rocket on the ground right between your legs :happybanana: With a little luck you'll land right on top of that Sectoid over there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deimos Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 To answer the blaster at the floor quandry all you guys need to do is take it up one level and place a waypoint come back doen a level and place your final marker. The blaster travels in a straight line according to its last trajctory marker. So if you're daft enough to leave it on a straight off the map course that's what it's gonna do As for targetting the ground with standard rockets, the Gollop brothers obviously left it out for gameplay reasons. Rockets do a considerable amount of splash damage and it would have made the game too easy. Imagine two aliens stood just out of range of a single rocket hit yet hitting the ground would get both of them, why waste two rockets when one will do the trick. Less suspense too if you hit both they can't reaction fire. Also if we make the human starting weapons better, we'd have to tweak the alien weapons as well which would throw the balance out again for the rest of the game. Its something to consider for when we have a battlescape running to test it so if we do consider it, it'll be a +v1.0 thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 Pretty good point. All of these ideas(rockets at the ground, clip merging) would make the humans better. Somehow the aliens would have to be improved(they would have to be allowed to fire at the ground too, which isn't really important to them). I don't know...a good V1.0+ idea, as mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikker Posted July 9, 2003 Report Share Posted July 9, 2003 (they would have to be allowed to fire at the ground too, which isn't really important to them).Blaster bombs targeting the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j'ordos Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 (edited) (they would have to be allowed to fire at the ground too, which isn't really important to them).Blaster bombs targeting the ground? Can't they? What if you let one fly to level two or higher, and the next waypoint you'd set on ground level, directly underneath the previous waypoint?(so it would fly vertically down) Edited July 10, 2003 by j'ordos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4t Posted July 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 well, in the current version it doesnt do that. i think its funny if on battleship missions they "manage" to get a blaster bomb in the skyranger. its funny that next round is full of panicking only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 I discovered that you can actually fire a blaster through UFO walls by using that trick. Great for taking out pesky psionic people on the bridge of battleships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Yep...have one or two guys open a nice big hole up there from a safe spot(like around a corner), and then drop one of those atomic footballs in there and wait for those lovely alien screams o death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 Yep...have one or two guys open a nice big hole up there from a safe spot(like around a corner), and then drop one of those atomic footballs in there and wait for those lovely alien screams o death. No, you dont have to make a hole, you can fire it through the intact walls (or in this case the roof). You can kill the whole command centre on turn one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breunor Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 The main use of targetting the ground will come into play with multiplayer. Muahhaha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 That would definitely make the Rocket Tank a little more useful. I'd say "How can it miss?", but it probably could. You'd think by 2009 we'd have a tank that could hit what it was aiming at from a great distance of about...200 feet. Must be some JROTC boys inside those things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordT Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 (they would have to be allowed to fire at the ground too, which isn't really important to them).Blaster bombs targeting the ground? Can't they? What if you let one fly to level two or higher, and the next waypoint you'd set on ground level, directly underneath the previous waypoint?(so it would fly vertically down) Though I wouldnt recommend doing that in the original. There's a bug making the bomb fly SW (screen-wise) if you send it straight down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miceless Posted July 10, 2003 Report Share Posted July 10, 2003 (they would have to be allowed to fire at the ground too, which isn't really important to them).Blaster bombs targeting the ground? Can't they? What if you let one fly to level two or higher, and the next waypoint you'd set on ground level, directly underneath the previous waypoint?(so it would fly vertically down) Though I wouldnt recommend doing that in the original. There's a bug making the bomb fly SW (screen-wise) if you send it straight down And that same bug can be used to make blaster bombs fly through walls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebulous menace Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 I don't remember with blasters, but in X-Com 1, with conventional rounds, you can absolutely fire at the ground. I was just playing a little bit of Predator-style X-Com yesterday; everyone has either a heavy cannon or an autocannon. And close counts in horseshoes and heavy cannons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c4t Posted July 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 thats if they do it by mistake, if you fire auto shot it can hit the ground somewhere else. but you cant target the plain ground initially. im positive. almost positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickisimo Posted July 11, 2003 Report Share Posted July 11, 2003 Yep. You can aim at a wall or tree or whatever, but unless you do the raise level "trick" and then aim it down, there's no way to forcibly aim at a given ground square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred the Goat Posted July 18, 2003 Report Share Posted July 18, 2003 No, actually, it's absolutely true. I've been playing catch-up, reading along this entry, saying to myself, "what fantastic drug have these people been consuming?" Try it. Load X-com. Point any weapon (except the blaster bomb - that one DOES travel to the center of its destination square, otherwise it would always hit the ground) ten spaces away from you. If your soldier is a half-decent shot, they will be fully capable of hitting the ground. Sorry to obliterate the entire premise of this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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