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fighting cyberdiscs early on


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#1 slickrcbd

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 08:33 AM

I just acquired Xcom recently, and am a newbie. I'm having some trouble fighting cyberdiscs in the early game. I know it gets much easier once i equip my squads with laser weapons, but I just restarted a new game after the USA signed a pact with the aliens and cut my funding, making me go bankrupt early on.

Anyways, my question is when fighting the cyberdiscs using the heavy cannon and auto cannon, do I use AP rounds or HE rounds? Sites like UFOpedia don't make it clear which is better. They say the cyberdiscs are more resistant to the HE, but also say they take 4X damage. So, which should I load in the cannons to take those things out?

#2 NKF

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:33 PM

They do withstand a lot of HE damage, but the rocket launcher with large rockets and high explosives are still your best bet against them. For high explosives, get guys with high strength. 40+ for preference, 35+ will do in a pinch. They need it for the throwing distance as the HE packs can only be thrown half as far as other grenades.

If one hit from either of these doesn't take down a cyberdisc, then you'll likely have damaged it enough to be able to finish it off with ordinary firearms.

If you're playing on Beginner difficulty, the rocket tank works nice. Proximity grenades are also good for softening them up if you can't throw high explosives. I'd still recommend the rockets for preference.

If you pump your research into laser weapons the moment you start the game, try to manufacture a few laser pistols. They're quick to build and are much more effective than the cannons against cyberdiscs. And once you get the laser rifles, each laser pistol sold will be enough to finance one laser rifle.

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#3 yarrow

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 02:54 PM

egg-zactly :)

quoting from:
http://ufopaedia.org...title=Cyberdisc

Take this hovering manhole cover down with (in this order): High Explosive packs, Laser Rifles, Heavy Rockets, Tank Rockets, Heavy Lasers, Alien Grenades, Laser Pistols, or Tank Cannon. Heavy Cannon (AP only) can be used but you will need the massed fire of half a full squad for a whole turn to bring down just one disc. Forget standard Rifles or Pistols - they're just too tough. HE rounds (Heavy Cannon or Auto Cannon) and regular Grenades (even Proximity mines) are almost totally ineffective. Of course, once you have Plasma weapons, things start to look up.


and don't forget about stun weapons

quoting again:

In fact, out of the starting weapons, the Stun Rod is the most effective vs Cyberdiscs - if you can get close enough.


yarrow

Edited by yarrow, 28 May 2012 - 02:57 PM.


#4 slickrcbd

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 09:31 PM

The problem was that I had only the starting equipment, which DID include the rocket launcher, but only four SMALL rockets. I ran out as there were 4-5 cyberdiscs. The guy with the rocket launcher had an empty launcher and a pistol by the time I found the last cyberdisc. I had two other guys with the cannons, one clip of each type of ammo. I didn't have any high explosives, proximity grenades, or rocket tanks (couldn't afford the last one yet). I had wasted all my money building the base and hiring some scientists. I was hoping to hock some alien stuff to purchase additional equipment as I didn't expect such a difficult mission so early.

I had 8 guys, five armed with a rifle and a grenade, one with the heavy canon with each type of clip, one with the autocannon with each type of clip, and my strongest guy had the rocket launcher with SMALL rockets and a pistol in his belt. After expending the rockets he had only the pistol. I wanted to give the cannon guys pistols as well, but they weren't strong enough yet, and I picked the strongest guys to wield the rocket launcher and cannons.

So, falling back on the cannons after running out of rockets, should I load HE or AP?

I wound up destroying them with AP, but it took five hits from the autocannon on autofire and three hits from the heavy cannon over two turns. Would HE have been better? The other poster mentioned "ordinary firearms". I thought the rifles, pistols and grenades were supposed to be ineffective against them. Should I have had my riflemen open fire on the cyberdiscs as well? Or have them toss grenades?
I had given one of my grenades to three Sectoids who had bunched up close together, but the other riflemen still had theirs.

So once again I ask, when fighting cyberdiscs with the heavy cannon and auto cannon, should I load HE or AP ammo?

Edited by slickrcbd, 28 May 2012 - 09:38 PM.


#5 NKF

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:02 AM

To answer your question I've created two test saves. One beginner, one superhuman. Gave all sectoids and civilians 100 critical wounds and 0'd the ammo for the cyberdisc turrets. If you'd like to try these out for yourself, just grab the following zip files and unzip them into any free save folder.

Attached File  beginner_cyberdisc.zip   16.94K   39 downloads
Attached File  super_cyberdisc.zip   17.55K   33 downloads

My findings are thus:

Pistol and Rifle

Beginner: Work very well. Not a great heap of damage like other weapons, but definitely can be used to destroy cyberdiscs on their own. A few bursts from a rifle may not look effective, but it actually deals a good dose of damage. Recommended used in a group.

Superhuman: They still worked, but took far too many rounds to be practical except for finishing off badly damaged cyberdiscs.


Heavy/Auto Cannon


Beginner: HE works much better than AP. Took far less rounds to finish off each cyberdisc. The Heavy Cannon was the superior of the two.

Superhuman: HE barely did any damage. The AC-HE seemed to have no effect, or at least I ran out of ammo most of the time. The AP rounds were much more effective for both weapons, though still took a fair number of shots. Again, Heavy Cannon was the better of the two.

The reason the lower-powered HE weapons and the pistols and rifles work so well on beginner is because the cyberdisc's armour is halved. Normally they have 34 on all facings, but it's dropped to 17 on beginner.

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#6 slickrcbd

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 04:53 PM

To answer your question I've created two test saves. One beginner, one superhuman. Gave all sectoids and civilians 100 critical wounds and 0'd the ammo for the cyberdisc turrets. If you'd like to try these out for yourself, just grab the following zip files and unzip them into any free save folder.

Attached File  beginner_cyberdisc.zip   16.94K   39 downloads
Attached File  super_cyberdisc.zip   17.55K   33 downloads

My findings are thus:

Pistol and Rifle

Beginner: Work very well. Not a great heap of damage like other weapons, but definitely can be used to destroy cyberdiscs on their own. A few bursts from a rifle may not look effective, but it actually deals a good dose of damage. Recommended used in a group.

Superhuman: They still worked, but took far too many rounds to be practical except for finishing off badly damaged cyberdiscs.


Heavy/Auto Cannon


Beginner: HE works much better than AP. Took far less rounds to finish off each cyberdisc. The Heavy Cannon was the superior of the two.

Superhuman: HE barely did any damage. The AC-HE seemed to have no effect, or at least I ran out of ammo most of the time. The AP rounds were much more effective for both weapons, though still took a fair number of shots. Again, Heavy Cannon was the better of the two.

The reason the lower-powered HE weapons and the pistols and rifles work so well on beginner is because the cyberdisc's armour is halved. Normally they have 34 on all facings, but it's dropped to 17 on beginner.

- NKF

Ah, so it depends on what level I'm playing. I wonder if they are about equal on the intermediate levels. I'm a beginner, and I'm playing on that level for now. Maybe each game I play I'll increase the level, although with most games regardless of genre over the last 25 years I often go from the easiest to the middle "normal" level to the hardest, skipping any additional ones.

Thanks for the advice. Sorry for being such a total newbie for such an old game, as I just got a copy recently for the first time. Over the last two years I've been picking up a lot of gems I never got to play at the local library book sale.

#7 NKF

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 12:28 AM

Don't worry, it's nice to have newbies pick up this game after all these years. Lets us old fogies re-live it again by giving advice. ;)

I recommend either jumping into the mid difficulty then move onto superhuman, or go straight to Superhuman. Make sure you get your geoscape.exe file patched to fix the difficulty bug though, otherwise it will revert to beginner after the first mission.

As for what gets adjusted on the difficulty levels, armour levels stay the same on all difficulty levels except for beginner. In TFTD it does scale up depending on difficulty.

The following alien stats are adjustd by difficulty level: Time units, stamina/energy, firing accuracy, strength, psi strength, psi skill. Of course, to add to the fun, the numbers of enemies you fight will also increase. This does mean you recover more stuff to sell, so the money side is a lot less stressful on harder levels.

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#8 yarrow

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 03:46 AM

Sorry for being such a total newbie for such an old game

don't be sorry ... have fun ^_^

you have just discovered
one of the best computer games EVER created!!

if you want more detailed look at the game mechanics
than consider reading this:
http://ufopaedia.org...hp?title=Damage

yarrow

#9 slickrcbd

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 05:14 PM

deleted

Edited by slickrcbd, 02 June 2012 - 08:36 AM.


#10 Sorrow

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 07:11 PM

I envy you playing it for the first time.

#11 NKF

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 11:44 PM

The best-game-ever will always be subjective and a matter of our personal tastes. But X-Com is definitely well placed amongst the many oldey-time games that are still entertaining even today.

- NKF
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