Who Are Your Toughest Agents?

[Aiki-Knight]

Which game's XCOM force kicks the most a**?

 

1. XCOM 1

2. XCOM 2

3. XCOM 3

 

Think about it: if you forced a mix, in which, say, your XCOM 3 forces had to fight off the XCOM 1 aliens, could they manage? Could the XCOM 1 aliens manage to beat back the X3 aliens? Would either set have a prayer against the nasties from XCOM 2 (imagine that aquatic equipment weren't an issue)?

 

Game attributes aside, which of the 3 became your baddest-a** team?

 

For me, I'd say X3 agents win on shields and in-house trainability, plus the power sword. However, X1 agents have the blaster launcher and X2 agents the blaster torpedo, while both have flying HWPs. X2 agents have those monster vibro blades.

 

As for personal teams, my X3 teams became the most super-trooper-like. In-house training really ramps your oldest vets up to the max.

[Steelion]

could XC3 beat XC1? Sure. plasma pistols, minirockets, etc would obliterate anything. Add devastator cannons and it's a cakewalk, except maybe for chryssalids and sectopods.

 

XC1 vs XC3? Sure- you more or less start off with "basic" tech- projectile MGs, ACs, etc, so stick some heavy plasmas in there and pow.

 

I'd go with XC3. They go toe to... er... really big toe with megaspawns. Admittedly its from a reasonably safe distance, and often behind two personal shields, but come ON!

[[NKF]]

Apocalypse agents are given a clear advantage from the start. Though a lot of the weapons may seem nerfed a bit, they do get mid-level armour right from the start and all sorts of other mod-cons that the soldiers and aquanauts from the past did not have.

 

Worse still, you later get shields, cloaking devices and personal teleporters and a suit of armour that can withstand all but the strongest of explosives (the vortex mine) when worn as a full suit as long as the durability holds out.

 

Your agents are also tougher and can withstand a number of hits before falling. You can still suffer one-hit kills when you're not wearing any armour, but you can generally last more hits than your average soldier or aquanaut, who could still suffer from one-hit kills in even the best of protection.

 

Apocalypse agents also get the androids who are immune to psi and micronoid brainswaps. They don't train (which is a plus in itself - no need to keep them at 100% health for training), but they start with mid-level stats that are just enough that sheep facing one direction in the evening will end up facing the opposite direction in the morning through no human intervention whatsoever. Um, no wrong expression. They're acceptable.

 

The ones with all the cool gadgets win. They can run through a hail of enemy fire, through big explosions and still break through and finish the job.

 

However they lack the romance of the soldiers and aquanauts who would die from but a flesh wound. Apocalyse agents would probably lose in a psionic mind control duel.

 

Then there's this whole debacle with the medikits. Soldiers and aquanauts can only use it on others. Agents can only use it on themselves - which is a disaster if they're unconscious and wounded. In this case, the soldiers and agents have the edges - except when they're alone.

 

- NKF

Edited March 20, 2007 by NKF

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Id have to say Apoc Agents, They just have the cooler toys.. Theres a Reason its a Sequal. if the toys got Less cool, it would be a Prequal =D

[Steelion]

Alien gas FTW! And devastators. And annihilators. and devastators. And disruptor armor...

[Cornuthaum]

Apoc agents, if only because they get armor straight away.

 

And even a devastator cannon hit in the unshielded back only tears away half of their hp... a Heavy Plasma/sonic cannon hit in the back is, well, deadly, unless you're really, really damn lucky with the roll on the armor blockage.

 

But.... Enemy Unknown/TFTD agents win in terms of overall coolness, atmosphere (*oh please please please make the alien miss, dear god... AIAAIAIAIIII THE PAIN! Aaaah! Not in the face! It buuuuuuuuuuauaaauauauarrrghhllhl....*), and because both games lack blue teddybear aliens, which is a definite plus.

[Aiki-Knight]

Apoc agents, if only because they get armor straight away.

 

And even a devastator cannon hit in the unshielded back only tears away half of their hp... a Heavy Plasma/sonic cannon hit in the back is, well, deadly, unless you're really, really damn lucky with the roll on the armor blockage.

 

But.... Enemy Unknown/TFTD agents win in terms of overall coolness, atmosphere (*oh please please please make the alien miss, dear god... AIAAIAIAIIII THE PAIN! Aaaah! Not in the face! It buuuuuuuuuuauaaauauauarrrghhllhl....*), and because both games lack blue teddybear aliens, which is a definite plus.

 

How hard would it be to turn XCOM 1 and 2 into ONE GAME? Think about it: both types of aliens, both types of craft, both types of XCOM. THAT would be a game, eh? The aliens taking over the oceans AND the land? How hard would that be to, programming-wise, as no new graphics or alien types or equipment would be needed?

[Sorrow]

Apoc agents, if only because they get armor straight away.

 

And even a devastator cannon hit in the unshielded back only tears away half of their hp... a Heavy Plasma/sonic cannon hit in the back is, well, deadly, unless you're really, really damn lucky with the roll on the armor blockage.

It has more to do with weapon damages being decreased in X-Com 3 than with superiority of X-Com 3 agents.

In X-Com3 Devastator Cannon deals only 70 points of damage while Heavy Plasma deals 115 points.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

I disagree, X-com agents can use Teleporters, cloaking devices, shields, all sorts of things. even if you shot them with the heavy plasma they would live easily, the Devastator would kill the Soldiers or Scubafags in one hit.

 

Its very a simple comparison

[Sorrow]

You are comparing troops at different tech levels.

X-Com agents equipped with Devastators and Shields would have to face soldiers equipped with Flying Armor, Heavy Plasma and Alien Blasters accompanied by Flying HVPs.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Hey, give me a break. I didnt honestly bother playing the first two games all the way through !

 

Apoc has Marsec flying peices, Droids that can wear them also, all sorts of lovely toys, but if you Really wanted to fight with me about this, Ill just sick my army of Probes on you

[Aiki-Knight]

Hey, give me a break. I didnt honestly bother playing the first two games all the way through !

 

Apoc has Marsec flying peices, Droids that can wear them also, all sorts of lovely toys, but if you Really wanted to fight with me about this, Ill just sick my army of Probes on you

No really - the blaster launcher from X1 is just insane. It would blast away both shields and probably puncture armor in one hit. And do that to several agents at once. But of course, XCOM agents wouldn't fight each other. But imagine if you could have all three groups at your command, fighting all three generations of aliens in one game!

[Sorrow]

All of X-Com 1 alien weapons would penetrate the Flying Armor, most of them would kill the agent that is wearing it instantly. A mere Laser Rifle has power of 70 - the same as the Devastator Cannon. Edited April 22, 2007 by Sorrow

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

*shrugs* Screw the agents, Ill just use my vehicles on your guys. End of Story <3

[Sorrow]

Vehicles that can be shot down from tens of kilometers away .

[[NKF]]

Pish! Just you wait till I figure out how to knock out a battleship with a single pistol shot...

 

Um, never mind.

 

To me, everything in Apocalypse feels like they're lower-powered civilian issue weapons. Makes sense, you are buying weapons sold to the Mega Primus public (Well, public in the sense they're available to urban private security companies). As you also get the mid-level armour from the very start, your agents do have this feeling of being able to last much longer.

 

And yes, the deadly devestator cannon is very close to the laser rifle in raw numbers. It just shows you how effective the laser rifle would be if it were to be used in real-time combat. It's probably just as fast firing too. I wonder what the damage multiplier for disrupter energy is for X-Com agents? I suppose it hardly matters.

 

- NKF

[Sorrow]

Pish! Just you wait till I figure out how to knock out a battleship with a single pistol shot...

 

Um, never mind.

 

To me, everything in Apocalypse feels like they're lower-powered civilian issue weapons. Makes sense, you are buying weapons sold to the Mega Primus public (Well, public in the sense they're available to urban private security companies). As you also get the mid-level armour from the very start, your agents do have this feeling of being able to last much longer.

I would rather say that every Jullian Gollop's game after TFTD is less realistic in terms of damage. They removed losing consciousness from shock and decreased the damages...

Laser Squad Nemesis is even worser ...

It's a sign of time - making games more "balanced" and less "frustrating" for masses.

 

As for low powered weapons being civilian issue weapons:

1. There's no reason to equip X-Com and Aliens with low powered weapons.

2. Companies using a military grade equipment (sniper rifles, machine guns, rocket launchers, etc.) is just a sign of detoriation of society typical for Cyberpunk settings.

 

And yes, the deadly devestator cannon is very close to the laser rifle in raw numbers. It just shows you how effective the laser rifle would be if it were to be used in real-time combat. It's probably just as fast firing too. I wonder what the damage multiplier for disrupter energy is for X-Com agents? I suppose it hardly matters.

 

- NKF

100% .

Edited April 23, 2007 by Sorrow

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Just a note for Nkf, ALL of the damages are 100% on Agents, use the most recent Apoc'd ver !

You can edit the values yourself and take lookies at them ^^

[Aiki-Knight]

Pish! Just you wait till I figure out how to knock out a battleship with a single pistol shot...

 

- NKF

 

Hey NKF - do you lose a lot of agents in XCOM3? How about XCOM1? I find I rarely lose agents in XCOM3, but in XCOM1, I do lose quite a few. Of course, I equip agents up to their eyeballs in armour and weapons. You, on the other hand, manage to play games with pistols and the odd powersword. I'm wondering about your mortality rates.

 

I mean, you DO lose SOME agents, right?

[Sorrow]

Pish! Just you wait till I figure out how to knock out a battleship with a single pistol shot...

 

- NKF

 

Hey NKF - do you lose a lot of agents in XCOM3? How about XCOM1? I find I rarely lose agents in XCOM3, but in XCOM1, I do lose quite a few.

Oh, it explains a lot .

It seems that the damages were lowered to make the game less "frustrating" and more "balanced" for Command & Conquer spoiled newbies .

Edited April 25, 2007 by Sorrow

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Well, it is partially real time remember..?

Alot of the noobies dont think pausing is worth it <3

It has nothing to do with C&C xD!

[[NKF]]

C&C and Starcraft, great games though they are, are just twitch fests. The faster you can click, and the smarter you are at using the keyboard and other shortcuts, and think at the same time (mostly about setting up your tank rush or making use of mental rock-paper-scissors strategy), the better you are. The computer generally surpasses you at this by being able to think of a couple hundred things in split seconds (but too stupid to adapt or fails completely once you abuse its script). The pause function allows you to mimic this.

 

But yeah, in Apocalypse, I do lose the occasional agent or agents in a mission. But the turnover rate isn't as bad as it is in UFO. I rarely get a total wipe-out in Apocalypse. And that's with my usual small squads of 4 - 6 agents.

 

- NKF

Edited April 30, 2007 by NKF

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

...you call 4-6 small?..

I use squads of 6 as a medium.. D:

my smalls are just pairs...

 

No Seriously, Two androids,both with a sheild and teleporter, one is a stealthed recon with motion detector and marsec fully armour for easy movement and hiding purposes.

While the other has two swords and second teleporter, the best armour available, a Second sheild, and neither of these units gets a medikit.. I finish the mission so fast they Couldnt die from bleeding :X..

heck they have yet to lose the sheilds.

 

Oh, I was also playing a very simular turn based game made the the whatcha brothers and namco for Gba recently, Emulator of course.. My gameboy broke

but Yeah anyways, They would probably be able to kill some of our agents had we the ability to get the equipment they have in the game, its quite limited in the skirmish maps, but you can Probably get tonnes in the campaign, Im simply too impatient for the tutorials <3.

[[NKF]]

From discussions I've had over the years with other players, 4 - 6 is small. Relatively speaking. With supersoldiers, a pair (for safety) is all you really need. It's still handy to have a few extra vortex mine carriers on hand, on top of having a few extra shields that you can distribute in times of need.

 

Androids are fun. They can usually wing it solo. Still best used in a pair or greater for the best effect.

 

Oh, and that GBA game. Was it Rebelstar Tactical Command? I must find some time to get around to finish that game. A tad simplistic and you don't get as much freedom as the X-Com games, but still lots of fun all the same.

 

- NKF

Edited May 1, 2007 by NKF

[Sorrow]

Well, it is partially real time remember..?

Alot of the noobies dont think pausing is worth it <3

It has nothing to do with C&C xD!

I'm talking about the hit-a-lot-to kill style of gameplay.

[NRN_R_Sumo1]

Yeah that was the name of the game Nkf.

And Sorrow, You can hit alot to kill people in Apoc its true, but you really cant deny that the flexibility of X-Com agents in Apoc hasnt been improved due to the pausable real time.

 

Think Dodging rocket launchers?

 

Cant do THAT crazy stuff with time units

[Pherdnut]

I'm going to have to vote with the blaster launcher and psi that doesn't require line of sight.